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edbanky
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
388 Posts |
 Posted - 08/15/2006 : 10:51:34
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Reading the recently posted IndyMusicScene interview brought out some interesting, unsolicited commentary from Mr. Black. Despite what some of us might allow ourselves to believe (me included), at the end of the day, Frank is really just Charles. Take this lengthy comment:
quote:
. . . with the internet and everything, with people posting their opinions about whatever, on the internet, it’s like everyone is kind of like this expert. “I don’t really like the drum sound on this…” “I don’t…” And it’s great because everyone can just sit back and be an armchair expert on whatever. Start our own magazine online. But it’s great that a lot of people have been able to express themselves. It’s just what I think. It’s the biggest bathroom wall in the universe. But at the same time, people get all fussy and say things like, “Well I don’t think this is his best work…” and it’s just like, come on. I just don’t think that people listened to records like that in 1968. They were just a lot more accepting of the art, as the artist deemed fit. “I don’t like this drum sound.” Or “it’s just to muddy.” I don’t even listen to records like that, and I’m a musician. I might have a thought. “Oh the drums are a little muddy.” But it doesn’t necessarily… it doesn’t ruin the experience for me. I think that… at least when I read the fan sites, of course that are dedicated to me, I take it a little more personally obviously. I really feel like they are just kind of getting too involved in the way that it sounds. They’re just not letting it flow by. I mean it’s rock music. I mean you know… there are some Ramones songs like I can think of like “Beat on the Brat” for example which is so much more lo-fi sounding, than say something from one of their later records that’s a lot more produced or whatever. But I don’t go “Well, their drum sound is a little muddy.” You know what I mean it’s like… it’s rock music. I mean… what’s the vibe? How does it feel? Even my most, in all of the two-track records I made, even my most lo-fi moment, I know is way more high-fi than so many of the things that are out there, valid things that are out there, that even like. It’s just kind of funny with all of the internet things that are out there. I’m just kind of defending myself here.
First, it's interesting because we have yet another indication of the value and impact of this forum. Frank reads our posts. He obviously lurks, and he's obviously interested in our opinions. Still more interesting is that he seems to refer to a specific thread with his mentioning “I don’t like this drum sound” type comments. As of this writing, the thread is atop the Frank Black Making Noise section; so maybe he even read it the morning of the Indy show. Who knows.
So yeah, Charles is a human being, with feelings and impressions and all that. Elementary? Maybe, but sometimes I think I forget.
So reading the article has had the dual effect of making me feel a little bad for being one of those “Well I don’t think this is his best work” guys, and making me want to kinda defend the idea of this hypercriticism.
Maybe the most important point is that the people who become almost anally obsessed with the details of Frank's work are probably his most loyal fans--his base. This obsession might easily describe many of us here--especially those who post and post and post to almost unanimously laud the details. I think an analysis of the critical-type comments in the forum's history would reveal that the less perceptive comments--the ones painted with the widest brush--are more likely to come from individuals whose interest in Frank's music is superficial. This isn't to say one can't find superficial value in his stuff; it's just that the superficial fans are the ones who jump ship when the music doesn't necessarily exhibit that glossy sheen. So, in defense of us fans who hover over microscopes, we're probably his most loyal.
It's almost a microcosm of many Americans' need to find something to complain about. Our country is SO good, and SO fundamentally worth living in, that we almost all take it for granted. It's a flattering mark to have millions upon millions so satisfied and fundamentally stable that they have all this time and energy to devote to criticism--and the right to do so. But, despite how much we might criticize or hyperanalyze our homeland, almost none of use actually try to leave. I believe we stick around because of an unconscious understanding of greatness that has evolved though our experience. Stay with me . . .
With his music, it's a similar thing. If his music wasn't so fundamentally solid--so dense and rich--we wouldn't see the acutely focused comments to which he seems to refer.
So, it's at least partly Frank's fault for being a genius.
Note to Frank:
You can't seriously write lyrics like those of "Valley Of Our Hope," in their complicated, riddle-like precision, and then ask us to not get all fussy about details. Same goes for breaking your voice during the word "just" with the line "chaos is ju-ust a quirk" in "I Think I'm Starting To Lose It" (ok, maybe that was sincerely an accident). You're not allowed to have several napsacks full of transcendent, sound-like-they've-always-been-a-part-of-the-rock-music-canon, masterpieces, like "Robert Onion," for example. Hey, if you can ponder Bob Zubrin's layers, can you really fault us for pondering the layers of your music?
On the other hand, I understand that the recording is just a highly accessible medium for presenting the art of the song. I get the impression that Frank's philosophy is "I have these songs I have written, and I want to exhibit them to the world (or my fans), so let's get some guy in here with a tape recorder." In other words, the medium is NOT the message to Frank. In some respect, the albums are almost like advertisements for the live performances. They're saying "Hey check out this set of songs that I have added to my lexicon; come out to my show and listen to me perform some of them." From this perspective, it isn't necessarily as important HOW the songs are introduced, but THAT they are.
Derek doesn't have tablature to account for how the drums sound, or the level of the left-side acoustic guitar in the mix. What matters to Frank, I am guessing, is conveying the essence of the song as written. So, I see his point.
One question: Does Frank ever sit there and allow himself to realize how necessary--how integral--he is to rock music? I mean, do you think he is aware of his own greatness? Or would that maybe pop the balloon? I know he wouldn't ever say, "Yeah man, I realize that I am one of those figures in rock. I am an essential icon and my unsurpassed talent is awe-inspiring." I think there's more to it than "Lot's of people tell you that you're influential." I'm talking about losing the indie rock context, or any notion of popularity or influence. I am referring to the omnipresent truth of his greatness. Do you think he knows?
Frank, please comment if you have a moment.
Due to my present condition and predicaments of being a crippled as a result of the fatal accident that I had, I am not able to carry out this contract because I can only walk on a wheel chair. |
Edited by - edbanky on 08/15/2006 11:37:28 |
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cellar_door
- FB Fan -
Canada
74 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 11:00:31
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I don't think Frank thinks he's a genius. I think Frank thinks he's a man with a guitar, and he has things he wants to say before it's back to dust. I think he's always tried to run from the idea that he's more then that. He's certainly been running from the idea that he's got to play a certain way because of who he was before. I'm personally happy he's just a guy with a guitar. Because that's why I've always enjoyed his music. I never felt it was about much more then that.
But what do I know.
I was a hawk and I just flew...yeah
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 11:13:37
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| if i wanted fB to know one thing, it would be people love him and his art like he does his own 'heroes period bowie' etc. that's how good he is. |
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edbanky
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
388 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 11:44:39
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quote:
Originally posted by fbc
if i wanted fB to know one thing, it would be people love him and his art like he does his own 'heroes period bowie' etc. that's how good he is.
Right. He is other people's Bowie, Dylan, etc.
Due to my present condition and predicaments of being a crippled as a result of the fatal accident that I had, I am not able to carry out this contract because I can only walk on a wheel chair. |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 12:16:17
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Everybody looks at things a little different. I love talking drums and set ups and tech especially when a guy like Tiven is lurking and may have some answers. But in the end, I love a good song. Charles delivers good songs. That's why I'm here. I have yet to be let down by anything the man has offered. But if you must, shoot me for being too interested in the technical side of all this rock and roll crap.
For an artist to be critical of his fans for what they want to talk about seems kind of strange, anyway. I talk to my friends about all kinds of aspects of music. Sometimes we're critical about trivial shit, sometimes we get excited over nothing- but it's our passion. It's our free time.
I have had some bad experiences just saying fucking "hi, love your work" to non-Frank artists whom I respect and happen to bump into or whatever. Alot of times, it's "Leave me the fuck alone" or something like that. I guess I have to respect their free time as well. Seems like an asshole thing to say to a fan, but hey, at least I can see both sides of it. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 12:16:32
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quote:
Originally posted by fbc
if i wanted fB to know one thing, it would be people love him and his art like he does his own 'heroes period bowie' etc. that's how good he is.
Amen.
 "No man remains quite what he was when he recognizes himself." |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 19:15:31
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Ditto on that FBC and COF. Now I feel sort of silly saying this that FB might be reading this but I think I am among thousands on people here on this forum that think FB is the best musican that's walked the face of the planet. That's not an exaggeration.
I do agree with FB's statement the internet that it has gotten for some people more of a monday nite footbally where you can freeze every frame and circle the action. for me-- the art is somehow lost in that. other people-- they love that musical play-by-play. It has got to be hard being under that sort of microscope as an artist.
In a silly little way I can relate- I gave my poems to my cousin to read and I was sitting next to him the whole time. It was really putting myself out there and he was like oh yeah, this, and that, and oh you can take out this part and make it better. I am so glad he read them, but I think he got 30% of what I wanted him to get out of it and then 30% of what he read into it which was cool and even stuff I didn't even think of and the rest was just lost in translation. so for me, for an artist that was one time of opening up my self for feedback... so I guess what I am trying to translate this into is I think of FB.net has positive and negative fan-feedback- and the wild thing for him is that feedback is coming in all the time from lots of people and he gets put under the microscope more than any other artist I can think of. I think that would be really hard and I am glad by the quality of music that he puts out that it doesn't affect his art--- b/c that's really tough putting yourself out there and I think even harder when some of your best fans are your harshest critics in some respects.
I guess the bottom line is sometimes us fans can get a little OCD about things when over all we're estatic just to have one song by FB. I think we can get spoiled and take what a good thing we have for granted.
So if FB reads this-- you have so many fans that adore your music, i guess some of us just have way too much time to think about things way too much and get ocd. I guess we don't say we appricate your music and our lives wouldn't have been the same with out your music enough. I know when it comes to the 20-30 people i have chatted with on this forum that hands down you are head and shoulders above any other musican-- that includes Bowie and the Beatles and the Ramones or what have you. |
Edited by - Daisy Girl on 08/15/2006 19:19:32 |
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beckett trance
- FB Fan -
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 21:39:02
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FB, if you read this, here's what I have to say:
I have tons of music in my collection, but it's not uncommon for me to end up listening to your music all day. I hope you keep writing and playing as long as I have ears. Whether it's a new album or a show recorded on some fan's mini-disc player, I'll dig it.
DON'T WORRY! DON'T BRING YOURSELF DOWN! DON'T LET YOUR MIND CHASE YOU LIKE A HOUND!!
_______________________________________
** feeling deluxe for just a couple of bucks ** |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 01:06:33
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Another satified customer!
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 01:35:37
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I think we can talk on this forum about everything we want
Frank must realise that we love him, or at least his music
I like Nick Vincent's production and the only place to say it is here
cause you are the only guys who know what it means.
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God save the Noisies |
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Visiting Sasquatch
= Cult of Ray =
USA
451 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 15:44:05
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I imagine what he means is, if it kinda stings when a journalist reviews his album critically in a magazine, imagine what it must feel like when he reads this on his fan boards!
At the same time, though, I've never liked the armchair argument. Kinda weak, imo. |
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Pete Egress
- FB Fan -
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 17:50:30
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A. Frank Black/Charles Thompson is a musical genius. His music has enriched my life in ways he will never realize. Ahead of his time. Unfortunately he probably wont be a "household name" until after we all are gone--but I believe he will eventually be recognized in the broader world of rock music--not that that is even his goal (armchair expert speaking here ;) ).
B. Even musical geniuses have albums that might not win the hearts of their most loyal fans.
Im sure listeners in 1968 had opinions on their musical heroes too. Im sure not everyone "got" the transition from "She loves you yeah yeah yeah" to "I am the Walrus." Back in the 60s /70s there were no forums to post opinions---other than the readers respose section in Rolling Stone, etc. Its a very cool time we are in that one can actually casually post their thoughts and opinions and actually have the artist respond. So some of us are on the same page as Frank in his musical evolution--but not all of us--and thats ok.
C. I totally respect Frank for following his heart and doing what he loves. I have been enjoying FMRM since I bought it, and I just got Honeycomb--and am enjoying that too--but I have to admit its on a different level I suppose then how I enjoy his earlier works.
I dont think I'll EVER get tired of Teenager of the year and the Catholics stuff--thats just me. I just heard on the latest podcast that "I've seen your picture" is about the Wallmart icon. My soul grinned wide at that one, reminding me why I love his music. I heard Black Francis sing.... |
Edited by - Pete Egress on 08/16/2006 17:53:54 |
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 19:10:50
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frank have you got a copy of leonard cohen's NEW BOOK ! book of longing?
his drawings and words for all.
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 19:26:55
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| I'd hate to be thought of analyzing and evaluating every word he utters! |
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see you in tea
- FB Fan -
14 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 22:26:28
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| If he is anything like me, he smokes a shitload of crackrocks! |
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tisasawath
= Cult of Ray =
Wallis and Futuna Islands
783 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 00:48:15
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and Misery Chastain can't die... you ressurect her, now!
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AAAAWWWWWRRRIIGGHHTTTTT !! ! |
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 01:07:08
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quote:
Originally posted by edbanky
It's almost a microcosm of many Americans' need to find something to complain about. Our country is SO good, and SO fundamentally worth living in, that we almost all take it for granted. It's a flattering mark to have millions upon millions so satisfied and fundamentally stable that they have all this time and energy to devote to criticism--and the right to do so. But, despite how much we might criticize or hyperanalyze our homeland, almost none of use actually try to leave. I believe we stick around because of an unconscious understanding of greatness that has evolved though our experience. Stay with me . . .
America Is Not The World....
America your head's too big, Because America, Your belly's too big
And I love you, I just wish you'd stay where you is
Hehe...
Maybe criticism does get too anal sometimes but I never think criticism is a bad thing. I'd hate a forum full of sycophants. The fact the forum exists at all is all due to how great the guy is. |
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Bartholomew
= Cult of Ray =
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 07:55:48
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That's cool you obsess over small details and all, Ed Banky, but it doesn't make you a more loyal fan than me –– someone who does not obsess over details in music. I've been with the man since Teenager and while I've obsessed over the general brilliance of certain albums (nearly every album, actually), I don't take it to the point of what Frank is referring to, ie. muddy drums, etc. Sure, I like the production of Teenager better than FastMan, but the real reason I like teenager better is that I like the songs themselves better. It's the soul of the song that matters. If the song's good enough you can record it in the middle of the woods on a boombox and it will still be a great song. It will still either move you or it won't. There is nothing superficial about this.
FB Lifer,
Bartholomew |
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edbanky
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
388 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 09:06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Bartholomew
That's cool you obsess over small details and all, Ed Banky, but it doesn't make you a more loyal fan than me –– someone who does not obsess over details in music. I've been with the man since Teenager and while I've obsessed over the general brilliance of certain albums (nearly every album, actually), I don't take it to the point of what Frank is referring to, ie. muddy drums, etc. Sure, I like the production of Teenager better than FastMan, but the real reason I like teenager better is that I like the songs themselves better. It's the soul of the song that matters. If the song's good enough you can record it in the middle of the woods on a boombox and it will still be a great song. It will still either move you or it won't. There is nothing superficial about this.
FB Lifer,
Bartholomew
You're true. I would word it differently in hindsight. The point was supposed to be that the folks who choose to visit this forum and opine, often obsessing over the details, represent some of his most loyal fans. It can be taken as a compliment or a good sign. Or perhaps not.
And I hope the word "superficial" didn't give the wrong impression. It wasn't meant to imply that if you don't belabor the details, you're superficial/pretentious. I was using the term to refer to being "immediately accessible on the surface". Like if the song happens to have a good gimmic, or an instantly memorable "riff"--that's its "superficial" appeal.
Due to my present condition and predicaments of being a crippled as a result of the fatal accident that I had, I am not able to carry out this contract because I can only walk on a wheel chair. |
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edbanky
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
388 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 09:09:12
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quote:
Originally posted by starmekitten
quote:
Originally posted by edbanky
It's almost a microcosm of many Americans' need to find something to complain about. Our country is SO good, and SO fundamentally worth living in, that we almost all take it for granted. It's a flattering mark to have millions upon millions so satisfied and fundamentally stable that they have all this time and energy to devote to criticism--and the right to do so. But, despite how much we might criticize or hyperanalyze our homeland, almost none of use actually try to leave. I believe we stick around because of an unconscious understanding of greatness that has evolved though our experience. Stay with me . . .
America Is Not The World....
America your head's too big, Because America, Your belly's too big
And I love you, I just wish you'd stay where you is
Exactly. I forget. Has Moz finally hied himself back to Manchester, or is he still basking in the glow of the southern California, United States of America, sun?
Due to my present condition and predicaments of being a crippled as a result of the fatal accident that I had, I am not able to carry out this contract because I can only walk on a wheel chair. |
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Bartholomew
= Cult of Ray =
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 09:25:22
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| I think I understand what you're saying, Ed. I think me and you just listen in different ways. I obsess over songs on more of a subconscious level -- letting the cumulative effect of the music and words take me somewhere else in a dreamy sort of way, not focusing on specific parts so much or specific words even. Sounds like you're a bit more analytical in your approach. [sings: "Ebony and ivory..."] |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 10:31:07
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Thanks for the post and topic Ed. Though I took no offense whatsoever, I'm afraid I have to number myself among the fans who are incapable of approaching music analytically or reductively, though I try to approach things that way when I can. With music I am forced to go the holistic route because I lack the faculties for doing otherwise. Same is true of art more generally: some of us don't know jack about art but simply know what we like.
Because I am self-conscious of this deficiency, I used to think that musicians must be more intelligent than average, but since then I've met a few musicians who disabused me of that prejudice.
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 10:37:51
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| So now you're calling Frank stupid? Nice. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 10:43:16
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Yeah, Frank is an idiot!
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 11:11:27
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quote:
Originally posted by edbanky
Exactly. I forget. Has Moz finally hied himself back to Manchester, or is he still basking in the glow of the southern California, United States of America, sun?
Who knows, Moz is a total whore. But you get my point... I hope. |
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Bartholomew
= Cult of Ray =
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 11:50:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
Thanks for the post and topic Ed. Though I took no offense whatsoever, I'm afraid I have to number myself among the fans who are incapable of approaching music analytically or reductively, though I try to approach things that way when I can. With music I am forced to go the holistic route because I lack the faculties for doing otherwise. Same is true of art more generally: some of us don't know jack about art but simply know what we like.
Because I am self-conscious of this deficiency, I used to think that musicians must be more intelligent than average, but since then I've met a few musicians who disabused me of that prejudice.
I don't think our problem with analysis of art has anything to do with intelligence. I think it has more to do with one's inner skull wiring than anything else, right-brained or left-brained kind of thing. I also believe (though it's possible I'm a bit defensive about this subject since I'm pretty much an analytical retard) that the way our thoughts work are a boon and not a bane. Great art almost always comes from more of a subconscious place than the conscious. This explains why most of the masters of their art forms never went to school and studied music or writing or whatever it is they became great at. What I'm trying to say, Erebus, is that I think you and I are going to become very famous soon. |
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edbanky
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
388 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 22:00:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
Thanks for the post and topic Ed. Though I took no offense whatsoever, I'm afraid I have to number myself among the fans who are incapable of approaching music analytically or reductively, though I try to approach things that way when I can. With music I am forced to go the holistic route because I lack the faculties for doing otherwise. Same is true of art more generally: some of us don't know jack about art but simply know what we like.
A common theme in how I think about music is my regret at having gotten into learning to play music. But, I also think I would probably be less happy if I had never picked up the guitar. The regret comes from my becoming too intimate with the nuts and bolts behind the magic. I remember several moments at which I realized how simple a favorite part of some piece of music was to actually play myself.
It's hard to explain, but I think from the very first time I realized that I could duplicate the "Pride In The Name Of Love" riff with the right pedal effect, for instance, I lost a big chunk of the awe I had possessed prior to that moment. Not that I don't now have a new respect for the creativity and innate musicality behind the most simple conventions in rock music; it just doesn't compare to not really knowing how it was happening.
Go ahead and laugh, but an early big smack in the head for me was at my first concert in 1987. There they were, the guys from Depeche Mode, absently standing behind a trio of keyboards, where I was expecting a couple guitars, some drums and some serious sweat. It sounds ridiculous, but my complete lack of understanding of how music was made had left me making such a goofy assumption.
It took awhile after picking up a guitar in college for me to start realizing the benefits that came at the expense of the wonderment I used to have. So now I'm left with those, and plagued by this unrelenting "need" to hyperanalyze.
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
Because I am self-conscious of this deficiency, I used to think that musicians must be more intelligent than average, but since then I've met a few musicians who disabused me of that prejudice.
However, this statement makes me wonder if perhaps I would have lost this general innocence that had me awestruck by everything musical anyway. At some point, you at least realized that musicians weren't god-like. Maybe I can comfort myself with the likelihood that I might've ended up here anyway.
Due to my present condition and predicaments of being a crippled as a result of the fatal accident that I had, I am not able to carry out this contract because I can only walk on a wheel chair. |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 22:19:57
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Guided By Voices - Alien Lanes.
Yeah, the drums are a little muddy. The fact that they have so many fans regardless is in indication that there are some people out there who listen to music the way most people did in 1968. |
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IceManCometh
- FB Fan -
58 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 22:42:22
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I'm a little surprised by some of these comments---including FB's in the interview. I rarely read these interviews anymore, since they seem more or less the same, but this time I did, perhaps because it was "raw" and "unedited." And the comments about the criticism caught me off guard, chiefly because he seems for the most part pragmatic about his craft: it's a product. He's an entertainer. That's it. He either gives people what they want or he doesn't. People buy the product, and they're going to comment about it, the same way you comment about buying a latte at your favorite coffee shop. Maybe it was overbrewed on a particular day, maybe on another it was served lukewarm or watery. If this is the case, then people are going to say, "Hey, this coffee ain't that great today. What the hell is up with that? It's usually terrific."
Point is: you put something out there, and people are going to talk. That's one of the prices you pay as an artist. They're going to analyze if they are a fan---that's the lingua franca, so to speak.
On the other hand, I can see why this is frustrating to the artist. When I put something out there---I'm a "writer"---and people comment, it rankles me, but on a rational level, you have to be prepared. They're going to talk. That's the nature of the game. Just be glad people are paying attention. Never mind if they're bitching about the drums, the amount of milk in the coffee, your verb use: be thankful, they're talking.
Many artist in the past have succumbed to this self-consciousness. They couldn't take the criticism. The first example that springs immediately to mind is J.D. Salinger. He absolutely despised some of the things people were saying about him in the press, and as a result he silenced himself. A pity, since for every one sour-voiced critic there were probably ten ardent fans.
Long story short: people talk about art and product, even if it's just pop music. You shouldn't find this surprising. And it's the nature of the fan to "overanalyze;" "fan" implies that they're paying more attention than everybody else.
My two cents. |
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tisasawath
= Cult of Ray =
Wallis and Futuna Islands
783 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 07:21:46
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quote:
Originally posted by edbanky
It's hard to explain, but I think from the very first time I realized that I could duplicate the "Pride In The Name Of Love" riff with the right pedal effect, for instance, I lost a big chunk of the awe I had possessed prior to that moment. Not that I don't now have a new respect for the creativity and innate musicality behind the most simple conventions in rock music; it just doesn't compare to not really knowing how it was happening.
yeah, i've felt this way too, feeling good because you can play something great but then again it doesn't seem that great anymore....
maybe because the technical requirements aren't enough without the attitude, the emotion, the whoknowswhat, channeled through the instruments.
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AAAAWWWWWRRRIIGGHHTTTTT !! ! |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 10:26:01
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quote:
Originally posted by edbanky
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
Thanks for the post and topic Ed. Though I took no offense whatsoever, I'm afraid I have to number myself among the fans who are incapable of approaching music analytically or reductively, though I try to approach things that way when I can. With music I am forced to go the holistic route because I lack the faculties for doing otherwise. Same is true of art more generally: some of us don't know jack about art but simply know what we like.
A common theme in how I think about music is my regret at having gotten into learning to play music. But, I also think I would probably be less happy if I had never picked up the guitar. The regret comes from my becoming too intimate with the nuts and bolts behind the magic. I remember several moments at which I realized how simple a favorite part of some piece of music was to actually play myself.
An old friend once expressed envy for me because I appreciated music in ignorance of the "nuts and bolts", just as I envy those who see within what is going on. I will say my musical limits have made me more empathetic toward those who are not as analytical as I am on a small set of topics. I've had my opportunities to learn more about the science of music but I tend to be lazy with things that don't come naturally.
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 10:53:27
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The idea of understanding decreasing the amount something is appreciated is interesting. For me, and I'd never really thought about this, the appreciation changes from one form to another. Now it's not so much that I think, "Wow, that's cool, how'd they do that" as it is "Wow, this is cool, someone really hit the nail on the head writing this". Not that I don't appreciate the sound of it, but playing it out makes me think of things I might've written in their place, and when everything I come up with sounds inferior to the band's version, then I'm impressed. Not because I'm some sort of amazing player (far from), but because their talents are obviously better than mine when it comes to hearing what's needed for that particular song.
"No man remains quite what he was when he recognizes himself." |
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beckett trance
- FB Fan -
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 11:06:01
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Living out in Hollywood with "industry" roommates, there were times when I was really enjoying a flick when they all started mocking the color scheme on the set or something like that. I felt bad for them.
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** feeling deluxe for just a couple of bucks ** |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 11:39:07
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| This is totally out of place, but my job is understanding the behavior of animals and the ecological consequences of their behaviors. I somewhat regularly hear the refrain that science takes the mystery and thus the beauty out of nature. I wholeheartedly disagree with that notion. I think natural systems and animal behavior becomes more amazing the more you know. I suppose the same applies to music. People with music knowledge can appreciate the uniqueness and cleverness of songs/compositions more than us (me) with no muscial knowledge. |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 13:25:24
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FB holds up very well under the musical microscope even if the sound engineering isn't always perfect. It comes up in the original quote that you can hear through static.
A great musician is in possession of a great mind. |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 14:58:28
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I'd like to use up this tiny bit of hyberspace to tell Frank that my interest in sound should in no way get confused with me not respecting his obvious talent as a great songwriter/performer.
Anybody can get a sound. Damn precious few can write great songs.
I'm a DIY'er. I have to ask questions.
Bartholomew said the need to dissect a song is built-in, a left/right brain trait. I believe that to be entirely true. Here's an example of how my brain works when I hear a great new song- I'll substitute the song for a shiny, dancing robot:
One summer afternoon a two foot tall, beautifully chromed, dancing android shows up in my front yard. It articulates modern dance moves as little beeps and buzzes eminate perfectly coordinated to each step. I am perfectly satified watching the little robot dance all over my yard for a week. Then something happens. I must find out how he does it. I must find out what his creator and the engineers were thinking when they put him together, hypothesize an origin, and completely dismantle him in my garage.
The only problem with this type of thinking is when I put him back together, place him back in the yard, and switch him back on, the mystery is gone. He doesn't seem so remarkable anymore. He's just another dancing robot. I understand this is unhealthy, but there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. I simply must know how things work! |
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Frank Black Is A Person Too
