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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
 Posted - 06/29/2006 : 15:12:29
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Gah, just had an impassioned discussion with my wife about the Scottish wanting England to lose and supporting anyone who plays them.
I'm of the opinion that this is just football, it's a game, England are our rivals (even if England don't see it like that) so we want them to lose. For them to win will mean 40 more years of gloating until we finally win the World Cup.
My wife feels that it's more insidious, that Scots hate the English anyway, so the wanting England to lose is tantamount to racism.
Also how does that compare with, say, club rivalry? Is it different just because they are clubs and not nations?
What lies before us and what lies behind us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 15:17:18
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only a limey would ask a question like this
"I don't have any money to buy new clothes and if they paid me to get some I'd probably buy more hoodies." - Mark Wainfur |
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a guy in a rover
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
535 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 15:23:02
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It seems different with the Scottish somehow. Fair enough them wanting us to lose, I want them to lose, its natural rivalry. But the scots seem to have a real burning hatred for the English that goes way beyond a joke. For example, a 7 year old boy getting beaten for wearing an England shirt in Edinburgh, or guy getting dragged from his car and beaten to within in an inch of his life for driving round with an England flag in his car window (in Airdrie I think). I think thats where the scots cross the line. They seem to be really fucking angry about it, like they would take great pleasure out of murdering and pillaging the English, whereas we see them as just neighhbours and enemies. For example, think of the way the other home nations view each other, its all fairly lighthearted eg England-Wales but when it comes to Scotland-England, there is deep seeded hatred. Obviously Im generalizing quite a bit but thats my opinion either way.
Kiss my ring...I am the greatest
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 15:26:46
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
only a limey would ask a question like this
"I don't have any money to buy new clothes and if they paid me to get some I'd probably buy more hoodies." - Mark Wainfur
Aren't limey's English?
What lies before us and what lies behind us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 15:32:57
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quote:
Originally posted by a guy in a rover
or guy getting dragged from his car and beaten to within in an inch of his life for driving round with an England flag in his car window (in Airdrie I think).
Kiss my ring...I am the greatest
To be fair, that happens in Airdire all the time, regardless of flags.
I know what you mean, I think there is a fair amount of anti-English sentiment in Scotland. I guess those incidents were caused by idiots who would have expressed their idiocy in some other way given the chance - suitable targets just happened to be there. Still racist and still wrong.
But, is the attitude to England (from the Scots) wrt football comparable to club rivalry in any sport. And is that then prejudice?
What lies before us and what lies behind us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 15:34:57
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You should've heard Eamon Dunphy on RTE's World Cup coverage the other week. He was trying to force host Bill O' Herlihy and co-panelist John Giles to admit, like himself, that they wanted England to lose. He can be quite funny, actually. Graeme Souness is on the panel some nights, actually.
Join the Cult Of Pob! |
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Suicide_Samurai
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
431 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 15:36:48
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There's nothing wrong with a bit of playful rivalry, but a lot of Scots are really deathly serious about their hatred for the English. I hate it when people put any kind of negativity down to jealously, but it's really all that this is. If you go onto a world cup message board you'll find it completely overrun with fiery Scots foaming at the mouth with deathly hatred and rage for the English.
I remember world cup '02 when the English were giving the Republic of Ireland loads of support, and they're not even in the UK.
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 15:46:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Llamadance
quote:
Originally posted by floop
only a limey would ask a question like this
"I don't have any money to buy new clothes and if they paid me to get some I'd probably buy more hoodies." - Mark Wainfur
Aren't limey's English?
What lies before us and what lies behind us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us -Ralph Waldo Emerson
that's right, limey
"I don't have any money to buy new clothes and if they paid me to get some I'd probably buy more hoodies." - Mark Wainfur |
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 15:49:58
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
quote:
Originally posted by Llamadance
quote:
Originally posted by floop
only a limey would ask a question like this
"I don't have any money to buy new clothes and if they paid me to get some I'd probably buy more hoodies." - Mark Wainfur
Aren't limey's English?
What lies before us and what lies behind us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us -Ralph Waldo Emerson
that's right, limey
"I don't have any money to buy new clothes and if they paid me to get some I'd probably buy more hoodies." - Mark Wainfur
A plague on all your peppers, quesadilla kit user.
What lies before us and what lies behind us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 15:53:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Suicide_Samurai
There's nothing wrong with a bit of playful rivalry, but a lot of Scots are really deathly serious about their hatred for the English. I hate it when people put any kind of negativity down to jealously, but it's really all that this is. If you go onto a world cup message board you'll find it completely overrun with fiery Scots foaming at the mouth with deathly hatred and rage for the English.
I remember world cup '02 when the English were giving the Republic of Ireland loads of support, and they're not even in the UK.
*foam* *froth*
But this isn't just about how much the Scots hate the English.
Look at club sides, the last thing Man Utd fans wanted in 2005 was for Liverpool to win the Champions League. Isn't that prejudice?
What lies before us and what lies behind us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2006 : 15:58:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Suicide_Samurai
I remember world cup '02 when the English were giving the Republic of Ireland loads of support, and they're not even in the UK.
I remember '95 when we tore down Lansdowne Road and threw it straight back at the Irish.
The England/Scotland thing, it's our history, and I love it. If I was born and bred in Scotland I'd probably hate us (the english), too. I don't think the Welsh like us, either. I wouldn't call it prejudiced. Club rivalry is similar, two tribes go to war. Hatred and passion.
(I think 'limey' is a reference to the British Navy) |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2006 : 06:36:26
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Yeah, the British Navy ate a lot of limes in order to stave off scurvy.
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
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misleadtheworld
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1222 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2006 : 07:59:05
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National and club rivalry is only really quite similar when you compare teams like Man City and Man United, Sheffield Wednesday and United, CELTIC and RANGERS. Other than that, I don't think it's quite so heated, if not quite often more tactical, ie. If Liverpool lose we'll play Northampton Town = walkover.
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pixiestu
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2564 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2006 : 10:57:07
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I think it's just as heated whoever it is. Wether it's in the lower leagues or at the highest level. Rovers vs City, County vs Forest, Blackpool vs Preston, Blackburn vs Burnley. These and many more are all as heated as the ones you mentioned, just not publicised as much.
"The arc of triumph" |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2006 : 11:22:27
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Funny how sports rivalry hatreds can take on an absolute character that military conflicts seem to lack. I feel no ongoing animosity toward the adversaries of past wars, but it would have suited me just fine if the Red Sox had gone five hundred years without a championship, and I’m presently hoping it will be at least that long before they get another. Conversely, I’m happy for the White Sox fans, and hope the Cubs get a ring someday, but then again take perverse delight in the frustration of the Astros and their fans. It’s as though the playing field is the last haven of our baser instincts.
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Edited by - Erebus on 07/09/2006 11:35:41 |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2006 : 20:37:40
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Mmmmm, Red Sox.
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a guy in a rover
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
535 Posts |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 10:26:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Llamadance
quote:
Originally posted by Suicide_Samurai
There's nothing wrong with a bit of playful rivalry, but a lot of Scots are really deathly serious about their hatred for the English. I hate it when people put any kind of negativity down to jealously, but it's really all that this is. If you go onto a world cup message board you'll find it completely overrun with fiery Scots foaming at the mouth with deathly hatred and rage for the English.
I remember world cup '02 when the English were giving the Republic of Ireland loads of support, and they're not even in the UK.
*foam* *froth*
But this isn't just about how much the Scots hate the English.
Look at club sides, the last thing Man Utd fans wanted in 2005 was for Liverpool to win the Champions League. Isn't that prejudice?
What lies before us and what lies behind us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us -Ralph Waldo Emerson
Actually for me, Arsenal would have been far worse.
I actually found myself smiling when Liverpool came from 3 down. I love a great come-back.
 I'd walk her everyday, into a shady place
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 10:27:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Llamadance
quote:
Originally posted by Suicide_Samurai
There's nothing wrong with a bit of playful rivalry, but a lot of Scots are really deathly serious about their hatred for the English. I hate it when people put any kind of negativity down to jealously, but it's really all that this is. If you go onto a world cup message board you'll find it completely overrun with fiery Scots foaming at the mouth with deathly hatred and rage for the English.
I remember world cup '02 when the English were giving the Republic of Ireland loads of support, and they're not even in the UK.
*foam* *froth*
But this isn't just about how much the Scots hate the English.
Look at club sides, the last thing Man Utd fans wanted in 2005 was for Liverpool to win the Champions League. Isn't that prejudice?
What lies before us and what lies behind us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us -Ralph Waldo Emerson
Actually for me, Arsenal would have been far worse.
I actually found myself smiling when Liverpool came from 3 down. I love a great come-back.
I'd walk her everyday, into a shady place
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edbanky
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
388 Posts |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 17:28:06
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Where does prejudice end and rivalry begin again, continuing the pepeptual cycle?
Join the Cult Of Pob! And don't forget to listen to the Pobcast! |
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Where does rivalry end and prejudice begin?
