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jimmy
= Cult of Ray =
USA
876 Posts |
 Posted - 01/11/2006 : 18:19:12
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I want to say first: I believe that all people are born with the same potential, and no race is superior or inferior to another.
another post here asked "Do you have an unpopular opinion?"
I think, in general, black culture is horrible and does a real disservice to black people.
1)Without sounding like Bill O'Reilly or Dr. Laura- the plain fact is: it is better for children to be raised by a mother and a father. A lot of problems would be solved if more people stopped trying to avoid that fact.
2)The art that most people associate with black culture is rap music, and as an art, rap is pretty weak. In general, most rap deals with things "as they are", with basic reality, and usually the negative aspects about it- this makes it the equivalent of newspaper stories set to a monotonous beat. If you objectively compare it to a symphony, or a novel you see it doesn't have much to offer in the way of what you'd expect from art.
3)Education is not the priority it should be. Everyone that grows up in this country has the opportunity to be very well educated. No matter how bad your local schools are, there is a public library nearby. Too often people make the excuse that there's nothing to do but get involved with gangs and crime but they could always go to the library instead.
I'm not sure if I'm making expressing myself clearly enough or just sounding like an asshole. I'm just trying to say that everyone has options and there are a lot of opportunities for a better life if you decide that's what you want. |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 18:51:14
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3)Education is not the priority it should be. Everyone that grows up in this country has the opportunity to be very well educated. No matter how bad your local schools are, there is a public library nearby. Too often people make the excuse that there's nothing to do but get involved with gangs and crime but they could always go to the library instead.
who the fuck would choose to go to a library over hanging out with mates.
you're probably confusion black culture with poverty
Your mum |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 21:54:16
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quote:
Originally posted by jimmy
I want to say first: I believe that all people are born with the same potential, and no race is superior or inferior to another.
then why are you asking which is "better"? |
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 22:08:06
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| popeyes white castle carl's jr sonic dell taco bell dominos mcdonalds roy rodgers pizza hut kfc wendys jack in the box burger king, everybody wants some. |
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2006 : 01:39:53
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Jimmy, the name of your thread didn't make any sense to me: is there a black and a white culture?
The rest of your post just confirmed the initial confusion.
What are you talking about?
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
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Fartbone
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2006 : 05:15:14
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This is a question for Michael Jackson. He's the only one who personally knows each side.
Horale Putos |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2006 : 09:13:26
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Um, is this thread a joke? I mean, I could try to respond to your points seriously, but I don't know that it's worth the bother.
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2006 : 10:56:25
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Your opinion makes you sound like a pampered momma's boy, jimmy.
Cyberhugs are for pussies. |
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mattb
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
474 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2006 : 22:41:38
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
Um, is this thread a joke? I mean, I could try to respond to your points seriously, but I don't know that it's worth the bother.
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares."
I concur, is this a serious thread? I could try to explain to you how incredibly racist you are if you like. |
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lonely persuader
= Cult of Ray =
Ireland
488 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 04:50:27
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| well jimmy, i think you are saying that there is a difference between culture and race... which is true... So its not actually racist (the rest of you)... One culture can be more "advanced" than another... some cultures allow canibalism etc but the people involved are not less human beings etc... but im not sure what your point is, though, jimmy.... so what??? there is a clash of cultures all around the world... this has been known for years.... wow, great topic... |
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <
France
4233 Posts |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 05:46:33
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OK, enough with the namecalling. I think he was trying to get a discussion going and while I don't agree that its ever productive to compare cultures to pick a 'winner' (this is a horrible attitude, cultures are different, not better/worse) I don't think he was trying to be racist. Maybe he was, but give the guy the benefit of the doubt.
As for a culture being more advanced, I disagree with that as well. Advanced towards what? Advancement (i.e. a move towards the better) is only defined by the culture analysing ancient cultures. I think we can all agree that cannibalism or womens' rights or other common themes throughout ancient (and not so ancient) cultures are definite steps in the wrong direction, but only because we live in a world where equality and the sanctity of life are important to us.
Look at vegetarianism. Many of us are happily omnivorous, but perhaps if we lived in an all vegetarian society, we'd look back and think, "Man, were they ever primitive" Or if we lived solely in a society that valued sterility rather than 'natural values' perhaps we would have all our food from factories and shake our heads sadly at people of yore eating food right off a tree.
Black/white culture? I think North American culture largely is not where I'd personally have it. Too high a value on money, too little value on hard work, too many people who want no responsibility for anything they do (and hence the rash of litigation for things like people slipping on ice, falling through a skylight whilst burgling, spilling hot coffee on yourself, etc), and so on. Too high a value on appearance and not enough on substance (see: pop music). And so on. But that's my personal opinion on the culture I live in, not me comparing it to another culture or trying to determine a better/worse one.
 "If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate." |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 08:01:00
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Yeah, I agree with much of what Dean said. Are there any cultures that DON'T consider the sanctity of life to be important, though? The question is usually WHOSE life is considered important. Sometimes it's only people within a certain group, and the lives of outsiders are less important, if not totally unimportant. I don't really like the idea that only the lives of people like you should be valued, but there are sometimes cases where the line has to be drawn.
As for Jimmy's original points:
1. Is this an implication that "black culture" favors single parents? I'd say that is somewhat racist, because I don't think there's a relevant correlation between race/culture and this matter. That aside, I don't think you'd find very many people who'd disagree that, provided both parents are willing, able, and competent, a child is better off with both. The problem with the "family values" crowd is more that they demonize single parents (as if it's somehow their fault), and insist upon maintaining traditional gender roles even when they don't actually make sense. Sure, two parents are better than one, but does it really matter whether both of those parents are the same gender, or the mother works and the father stays home?
2. Wasn't what you call "black culture" also responsible for rock, blues, reggae, ska, jazz, and a whole lot of other genres? Besides, I think you're trivializing rap music. I'm not the biggest fan of rap in general, but I don't think it's at all reasonable to dismiss it as an art form. No, there isn't much emphasis on melody. So what? To be a successful rapper requires a good sense of rhythm, the ability to come up with lots of rhymes, and often skill at sampling and arrangement as well.
3. Hey, I'd much rather go to the library than join a gang. But if you're getting beaten up every day, the library ain't gonna help you with that, is it?
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
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ivandivel
= Cult of Ray =
394 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 08:24:45
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I think the idea that no culture an do "wrong" or be "unhealthy" is taking relativism and tolerance too far. It should be "allowed" to point out problematic aspects, and it should be done (the european left did not do this which gave extremists monopoly). The problem is that people have a tendency to compare bad things/things they don't like with what they think is "best". "Good enough" should do, american "white" culture is certainly not the "best".
Anyway, I don't think black-white AMERICAN culture are that different - it's bread and circus - McDonalds, war, sports and porn (you guys make and consume an incredibleamount of porn each year)- looking at it from the outside.
That aside- if there is such a thing as black culture - it originated rock, made the greatest jazz and gave the world soul music which is one of the finest gifts the US ever presented us with. It also produce mighty fine booties of which you all should be proud!
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 08:48:34
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i think this whole discussion is utterly racist, but, if i had to choose which one was better, i'd definitely say white culture, all the way.
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 08:52:38
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Of course we can compare values to ours and say what we don't agree with (as I have re:N.American culture), but how can we say its wrong? Wrong in this case is only defined by values of OUR culture. People might look at our culture with a different set of values and hold that something we believe at our core (such as equality, perhaps) is wrong. And it's not that much of a stretch, obviously there are things some people are better at than others, some people are smarter, some are stronger, etc... I'm not saying this is a valid argument, just that as long as you're not flying in the face of science, there is no such thing as wrong, just differences of opinion.
That said, I think that 90% (+) of the worlds' cultures share some core values so we could define something that we are all against as 'wrong' for our world culture, if that makes sense. Things like murder and listening to Britney Spears.
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate." |
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 08:59:53
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| I don't see how Jimmys argument is even an argument, it's a very segmented stereotype and has implications in "white culture" as well as "black culture". To say that it's only in black populations where there are single parent families (which aren't strictly worse than two parent families either) or poor educational standards is extremely tunnel visioned. As far as I can see the basis of these points is a local one, as in local to Jimmy. If by rap you mean mainstream black musical culture, to do a fair comparison mainstream white musical culture would be... shockingly bad pop music by vaccuous pretty boys and slutty girls singing songs abour feisty love written by people in their forties. I'll take rap.... |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 09:11:54
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Exactly tre, not all black people are straight outta compton...
And there are many different cultures within the white race as well.
__________
Don't believe the hype. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 09:17:26
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I'll agree that it would be idiotic to attribute single parenting to any race, I thought that the race part was intended mostly for the musical choices. And while not everyone black listens to rap or white to garbage pop, well, I don't know... surely there are cultures with racial distinction just as there are with ethnicity even if there are no 100% rules to be applied anywhere?
In any case, I was simply trying to steer this thread to something more like this so Jimmy can see what is wrong with his statements rather than just learning that he's <insert insult of choice>.
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate." |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 09:19:27
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Your discriminating, jimmy? Is it because I is black?
 pas de dutchie! |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 09:20:13
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Most white North Americans have few to no close relationships with black North Americans and base their beliefs and opinions about them on the pablum they see in popular culture.
One of the people I am closest to on the planet is black. Like countless other blacks (and whites) you couldn't pay him to listen to rap and he spends nearly all his free time coaching his kids' teams and he has a graduate degree from an Ivy League -- as well as parents who've been married 56 years.
btw, he's old enough to remember the segregated fountains, and recalls being reprimanded by his kindergartner teacher for sharing his sandwich with a white child.
I got some heaven in my head
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 09:25:21
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quote:
I'll agree that it would be idiotic to attribute single parenting to any race, I thought that the race part was intended mostly for the musical choices.
Then why would the single parent thing be the first point in a thread with the title it has? If you DON'T assume that Jimmy thinks there's a correlation here, it doesn't appear to make any sense.
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
Edited by - VoVat on 01/13/2006 09:25:39 |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 10:58:20
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Yeah, reading it again perhaps you're right. I guess I read the last point and thought it had nothing to do with 'black culture' and assumed that point also had nothing to do with it too because there was no mention, but if you look back it certainly looks like something's awry there. Still, better to come up with a reasoned response (I thought yours was quite good for example) rather than just hurling insults...
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate." |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 11:02:11
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
Most white North Americans have few to no close relationships with black North Americans and base their beliefs and opinions about them on the pablum they see in popular culture.
that's a good point. i find it interesting that it's all white people having this discussion |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 11:43:04
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
Most white North Americans have few to no close relationships with black North Americans and base their beliefs and opinions about them on the pablum they see in popular culture.
that's a good point. i find it interesting that it's all white people having this discussion
Tio, you mean you're not a proud n loco Latino representing the Westsiiide?
I got some heaven in my head
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 12:21:25
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| I'll take the side that gave us jazz, the blues, rock & roll, and tap dancing over the side that gave us musicals, easy listening, and Lee Greenwood. |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 13:23:58
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I'm amazed that people in Ireland and Canada even know what a black person is.
Cyberhugs are for pussies. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 13:27:56
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What are you saying?
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate." |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 13:46:10
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I think you have the wrong perception of Canada BLT.
__________
Don't believe the hype. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 13:54:11
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And there I thought Murray Lightburn was black.
I got some heaven in my head
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 13:58:07
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I'm half joking (as usual). All I'm saying is I spent a week in Canada and two weeks in Ireland and I could probably count the blacks I saw on one hand (and maybe another finger or two).
Cyberhugs are for pussies. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 14:14:05
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Oh, he sure is K. I know this for sure as I was able to conduct extensive DNA tests as he hopped off the stage and put the microphone right in front of my mouth and started singing with me - except that I was frozen with fear and may have only managed a 'hmmaahhahooowha?'.
It depends where you are in Canada. We don't have many here in the west, but there are some and in fact I have a couple good friends who are. There tend to be more in Toronto than anywhere else I think.
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate." |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 14:21:47
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come on, it's not a competition... i'm sure you're all just as tolerant as each other.
apart from dean who says "we" don't have many... do you own them or something, racist?
<insert Carl smiley>
Your mum |
Edited by - PixieSteve on 01/13/2006 14:25:04 |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 14:52:02
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What qualifies as black?
I know there's quite a few brown people.
__________
Don't believe the hype. |
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ivandivel
= Cult of Ray =
394 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2006 : 17:18:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
Of course we can compare values to ours and say what we don't agree with (as I have re:N.American culture), but how can we say its wrong? Wrong in this case is only defined by values of OUR culture. People might look at our culture with a different set of values and hold that something we believe at our core (such as equality, perhaps) is wrong. And it's not that much of a stretch, obviously there are things some people are better at than others, some people are smarter, some are stronger, etc... I'm not saying this is a valid argument, just that as long as you're not flying in the face of science, there is no such thing as wrong, just differences of opinion.
That said, I think that 90% (+) of the worlds' cultures share some core values so we could define something that we are all against as 'wrong' for our world culture, if that makes sense. Things like murder and listening to Britney Spears.
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."
This debate has at least two aspects - pinky culture vs masculine culture (yeah - blacks), and wether such debates are meaningfull at all because everything is so relative. Pinks vs blacks I know nothing about, but I disagree with your relativism. I am not saying that one culture is "more right" or better - but I think people in general, and academics in particluar, behave cowardly regarding pointing out that - yep - certain things are unacceptable.
A couple of examples: European politicians should point out, to the USA and Iran, that executing children and mentally retarded people is a cultural practice that is unaceptable (wait - i'm not sure that Iran really does that anymore). The (unaceptable)practice of forced circumcition of girls should have been pointed out a long time ago by the european left instead of embracing everything as a question of values. You can't use science for everything - science is as much as anything else governed by beliefs, values, money and power struggles. I think the moderates/liberals/lefties of the western world's failure to be clear on certain issues related to culture/values paved way for Bush and his moralism (and right wing extremism in europe)- and i'd hate to see more of his kind. |
Edited by - ivandivel on 01/13/2006 17:20:43 |
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Topic |
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Which is better- black or white culture?
