| Author |
 Topic  |
|
BrendanT
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
907 Posts |
 Posted - 11/04/2005 : 10:02:03
|
The rules do not apply to USA because they are the rule makers.
Wasn't it Charlie Manson that siad "I'm not the law breaker, I'm the law maker!" American philosophy at its best!
Countercultivating Midnights
This world's a fuckin' stripmall! |
 |
|
|
BrendanT
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
907 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 10:03:35
|
Hey Kathryn,
Sorry. I forgot to mention that I will certainly adopt you. You might have to be the bread-winner of the family though. Is that okay?
Go Habs Go!
Countercultivating Midnights
This world's a fuckin' stripmall! |
|
|
|
kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 10:46:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by BrendanT
Hey Kathryn,
Sorry. I forgot to mention that I will certainly adopt you.
Sweeeeeet!
quote:
You might have to be the bread-winner of the family though. Is that okay?
Only if you don't make me sell Beaver tails to support our family.
When we walked through Little Italy I saw my reflection come right off your face
I paint pictures to remember, you're too beautiful to put into words
|
|
|
|
Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 11:29:40
|
Note to self: leave the damn Canadians alone.
Owen: Actually, I’m fond of phrases like “Peace through superior firepower” and “Arsenal of Democacy”. In my opinion, current wars stem more from the weakness of appeasement than they do from the folly of prior wars. If you want peace, finish the war. Any peace, any war.
CoF: Can’t say that I know much about the Sponsorship Scandal beyond the basic allegations. I have been aware of the scandal for about a year, mostly through commentary and links at conservative/libertarian sites like instapundit.com and nationalreview.com .
“if we're going to compare corrupt governments situation by situation”: I’m not sure where this comes from, as I’ve only made two posts on this thread, neither of which makes such comparisons, so far as I can tell. But, your point is a good one in and of itself. And no, I don’t expect to find much along the lines you suggest. I raised the Gomery report as an example of where a Canadian outraged by lying might direct attention closer to home. The Sponsorship Scandal amuses mostly because it exposes Canadian leadership for what it is, and, to my mind, serves to undercut much of the moral highground international Bush opponents would claim for themselves. But Owen is right about the ´your scumbags are worse than my scumbags´ argument, except that some of us accept that scumbags are all we’re going to get. I’ll take capitalist scumbags over socialist scumbags anyday, as you know.
Regarding the softwood dispute, I have tried to educate myself on this but all the articles I’ve found fail to concisely explain the basics of the dispute. Speaking as an opponent to NAFTA, I am willing to accept that the US is at fault, though I hardly believe Canada is pure on this. Much that I have read suggests the the Canadian Liberals are milking this for domestic political advantage and therefore have little incentive to settle it.
KoK: Yes, I still support Bush and the war as much as ever. I’m not in love with the situation but I see nothing realistic on offer from other quarters. For all the rabid attacks on Bush, I have seen no semblance of an alternative from his critics. Please don’t suggest the UN is the answer.
Now then, should I amble over to that French riot thread to see whether anybody's mentioned multiculturalism? Maybe someone's drawn a comparison between the French press's characterization of American race relations and the American press's thusfar relative lack of speculation on such matters in France. After all, we mustn't forget that race riots are a sympton of American capitalism, the likes of which could never occur under the nurturing wing of European socialism. |
Edited by - Erebus on 11/04/2005 11:32:59 |
|
|
|
Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 11:39:38
|
Erebus, I'd be interested to hear your opinion's on multiculturalism in general: I have an acquaintance who out and out says "multiculturalism is evil", but I'm sure I can get a more balanced and informed view from you!
 I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid |
|
|
|
The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
|
|
Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 16:15:20
|
Erebus, I´d take a leader´s claims these wars were about freedom or peace at least a little more seriously if 1) the countries that needed freeing weren´t always so overwhelmingly rich in opium or oil, 2) the enormous profit was taken out of warfare (bombs rarely kill those who make them, twould be nice to see how many businesses we have interested in peace when war is no longer a financial racket) and 3) any leader who declares a war gets his or herself on the front line.
--
Buy your best friend flowers. Buy your lover a beer. Covet thy father. Covet thy neighbour's father. Honour thy lover's beer. Covet thy neighbour's father's wife's sister. Take her to bingo night. |
|
|
|
Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2005 : 13:58:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by Cheeseman1000
Erebus, I'd be interested to hear your opinion's on multiculturalism in general: I have an acquaintance who out and out says "multiculturalism is evil", but I'm sure I can get a more balanced and informed view from you!
I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid
I'm reluctant to say much about it. In my opinion our culture lacks the maturity for honest discussion of such things. However, your question did prompt me to write a few paragraphs on it, something I do too rarely. Thank you. Here's the gist.
I think most experiments in multiculturalism are doomed to failure for reasons arising out of evolution, human and otherwise. During periods of prosperity others are welcome, but prosperity lasts only so long, and then when times grow tight, racial and ethnic persecution ensues. When the majority race cannot feed its families, if it can it will take food from the tables of the ethnic minorities. At some point along the way violence becomes simple rationality. History suggests nothing else and the future will continue that history because we are, evolutionarily speaking, the fruit of that history. During periods of prosperity we try to forget that but in stressful times almost all of us will lose the luxury of such self-delusion.
An ethnic group under stress it will find its allies among its own, as it defines it, and its opponents among those unlike itself, however superficial the differences may be. Almost everybody will forget about such trifles as justice and moral consistency. The DNA of those who behave with ethnic selfishness (selfishness well short of that of the Nazis and their brethren) will do better than that of those who fritter away their assets on those less like themselves. DNA which builds animals that restrict, relatively speaking, their altruism to those most like themselves will consistantly outpace DNA which builds less discrimating animals. If this is accurate, we can expect ethnic groups under pressure to behave with whatever selfishness they require to improve their situation.
I don’t think it’s necessarily impossible that humans are presently evolvng toward a tendency to a more inclusive altruism, but we are nowhere near the point where that would become relevant to discussion of present day multiculturalism. It’s one thing to trumpet tolerance, but when social policy assumes way too much tolerance, we’re headed for trouble. In fundamental respects, social policy should be based on low expectations for just how people will behave in extreme conditions. You don’t base a global social experiment on hope.
Nobody designed the multicultural city of the west. For the most part it just happened, and now that it has happened, those who would vainly postpone the strife I expect are rising to the occasion by subjecting us to propaganda intended to make us grow to like the necessity we find upon us, namely, multiculteralism. We’ve got our new reality, so we must be trained to like it. This training will fail.
Multiculturalism may or may not be founded upon good intentions but in reality its brief “success” only ensures that future grief will be that much worse. The further we go down the road of multiculturalism, the greater the penalty all will reap later.
I realize all this provides an unconventional basis for opposition to multiculturalism. I am not writing to applaud this version of the state of affairs. Instead I intend simply to describe, and prescribe. Thanks for asking for my opinion.
|
|
|
|
Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2005 : 16:17:25
|
Well it was certainly better worded than the afore-mentioned acquaintance.
I'm sure that this is not what you meant to imply, but the impression I get from that post is that any multiculturalism is bound to fail, and therefore it's pretty useless to try and integrate, or what have you. Theorising and conjecturing aside for a moment, what's your personal, practical approach to multiculturalism? Living in maybe the most multicultural city in the world, I do my best to embrace all the different nationalities that I come across, and in my various exploits I come across plenty. Now, I don't neccessarily agree with all opinions of, say, all religions that are to be found in my locality, but it certainly doesn't mean I think it's bad that they're here, just as if I had a difference of opinion with another white Englishman. I'm just curious to what extent multiculturalism is in evidence in your everyday life.
By the way, I can certainly see many of the points you're making there, and they make sense to me. Obviously, I don't agree with it all, but I didn't want you to get the impression that I'm dismissing your opinions at all.
I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid |
|
|
|
Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2005 : 19:01:47
|
I should have made a distinction between more diverse communities or regions and those that are less diverse but have one or a few significant minoritiy populations, especially if those populations remain insulated and unintegrated. Obviously that’s where the friction will arise. As you say, London has the high diversity model, which should be more stable under most conditions. If there’s true integration there’s not much problem. The form of multiculturalism featuring significant, unintegrated minority populations is what I am seeing as bound to fail. I’m reading that in Denmark the Islamic rioters are demanding that the police stay out so the Islamic population can be a law unto itself. That cannot fly.
I don’t get that much practice with other cultures. In Reno there are populations of Hispanics, Blacks, Moslems, and others, but the numbers aren’t that great. The Hispanic community is growing fastest. There are gangs. But I don’t have that much direct contact. I’m a recluse anyway, and I drive most places. |
|
|
|
Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2005 : 17:00:40
|
It is paradoxical that the only way multiculturalism can work is by treating everyone the same regardless of race, culture, or, for that matter, anything that makes us distinct in the first place. At least this is how it seems to me.
As far as the sponsorship scandal goes, thanks for answering, I don't think there's much worth discussing there now. For the record, however, I doubt the Liberals are milking it for political advantage when in fact their unwillingness to be tough with the US or make any progress has caused them more harm than good, especially when a resolution (never more than at present) to this would potentially save them in light of the coming election and their spiralling popularity. Although they may not need saving thanks to Stephen Harper being as inept and/or evil as he is. But that's more than I should've said already...
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
|
|
|
PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2005 : 17:02:28
|
i don't understand erebus, can someone break it down. is he saying he's racist? keep it simple please.
 |
|
|
|
kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2005 : 19:28:45
|
Another important point to be made about Canada is that the Canadiens are
No. 1 in the Eastern Conference.
When we walked through Little Italy I saw my reflection come right off your face
I paint pictures to remember, you're too beautiful to put into words
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
We want our money back! Softwood duties.
I am not a number. I am a free man!