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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
 Posted - 10/22/2005 : 10:42:53
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how come no one ever mentions them? no fans in here? i saw them the other week in manchester, were absolutely fantastic!
The Monkey Helper has had a make-over! http://www.monkeyhelper.co.uk (that is my band) |
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2005 : 11:00:37
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Pere Ubu are a band I keep meaning to pick up an album or two of. I've heard great things about them, but I don't think I've heard anything at all by them. Where should I start?
That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2005 : 18:54:24
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Well it seems people are too dang busy talking Wolf Parade, Arcade Fire and Decemberists...fact is, Pere Ubu is and has always been the 'true' avant-guarde rockers these new bands attempt to make everyone think they are...
...if you are new to the Ubu, I suggest you pick up Terminal Tower which is a pretty good collection of alternate takes of early stuff, then Modern Dance, then Dub Housing, then the Art Of Walking....then whatever because you will have become a fan.
....it is pretty dang preposterous that Pere Ubu is not mentioned more on this forum, as they were an obvious influence on Frank Black and Radiohead (Pynchon references)---as well, if you did your homework, there are many Ubu/Frank Black links (ie. Eric Drew, Two Pale Boys, Al Clay, etc..)
....as this forum becomes increasingly adolescent though, its no big surprise! |
Edited by - frank_black_francis on 10/22/2005 18:59:30 |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2005 : 21:35:20
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Guess I just let another fastball go right over the plate. I'm 39, and the only thing I know about Pere Ubu is the Eric connection. I will research....<quad-click>
......searching......rebooting.......welcome to WindowsXP installation wizard....
I wish I was dead. Wait.....not me, you. -Jack Handey |
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Useyourname
- FB Fan -
185 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2005 : 00:17:02
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I love Pere Ubu, and I love the Two Pale Boys. It would a dream if David Thomas (in any form) would come to Philadelphia so that I could see him perform live.
For new people wanting to get into Ubu I agree with FBF, Terminal Tower is an excellent start. Follow that with Modern Dance and go on in order of release date.
Also, you must remember that Pere Ubu are way ahead of their time. They did things back in the late 70's that bands now are being applauded for. Yes, they really are the avant-garage band, but they also can make slick pop if you get to the Cloudland LP. What I'm getting at is you most likely will not like Pere Ubu on the first 20 spins or so. I know I didn't, but it's funny how Pere Ubu grows on you...like a fungus. Before you know it you love them and every fucked up track they make.
Just don't try playing them for your friends and family, especially girlfriends.
-- Jimmy |
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HeywoodJablome
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1485 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2005 : 08:51:39
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| I've heard a bit of them and it didn't really do much for me. Where's a good place to start? |
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Crispy Water
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
819 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2005 : 09:31:24
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They definitely fall into my favourite bands category, one of the very best there will ever be. I've started listening to some of the David Thomas & Two Pale Boys stuff in the last couple years too, just madness!
As far as never getting mentioned around here, I know there are some huge fans on the forum and it seems every few months a topic gets started only to die within a few days.
Nothing is ever something. |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2005 : 11:28:48
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quote:
Well it seems people are too dang busy talking Wolf Parade, Arcade Fire and Decemberists...fact is, Pere Ubu is and has always been the 'true' avant-guarde rockers these new bands attempt to make everyone think they are...
I don't really know anything about Pere Ubu, but this "the original is always best" attitude doesn't make much sense to me. So there can be only one "true" avant-garde rock band, or what?
Honestly, I wouldn't say the Decemberists (the only band you've mentioned that I'm really familiar with) are particularly avant-garde at all. They're pretty straightforward in terms of melody and such.
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2005 : 12:21:09
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
quote:
Well it seems people are too dang busy talking Wolf Parade, Arcade Fire and Decemberists...fact is, Pere Ubu is and has always been the 'true' avant-guarde rockers these new bands attempt to make everyone think they are...
I don't really know anything about Pere Ubu, but this "the original is always best" attitude doesn't make much sense to me. So there can be only one "true" avant-garde rock band, or what?
Honestly, I wouldn't say the Decemberists (the only band you've mentioned that I'm really familiar with) are particularly avant-garde at all. They're pretty straightforward in terms of melody and such.
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares."
Sorry, I just mentioned Decemberists because they've been getting a lot of talk about how they're the best thing since whatever....its annoying. They are not Avant-guarde in any way. As far as Pere Ubu being the 'only true'..., I was paraphrasing from stuff I've read in the past...They have never been commercially successful and yet they've been playing on the periphery of music for 30 years....and have managed to remain in the avant-guard for this long. I think that it was in reference to that.
..besides a lot of broad sweeping statements like that are made without being 100% accurate....do you always have a coniption fit?
As far as the original being the best...YOUR GODDAM RIGHT! I personally prefer to listen to Berlin Era Bowie or early Talking Heads than Wolf Parade any day. Whether its Literature, Art or Music, the innovators are always the best and it goes without saying. They are the inventors of the new vocabulary...there is a tendency that the product is more pure.
...if you haven't figured out that basic logic yet, wait for it. For some it comes with age.
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Edited by - frank_black_francis on 10/23/2005 12:26:33 |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2005 : 12:38:44
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quote:
Originally posted by frank_black_francis
As far as the original being the best...YOUR GODDAM RIGHT! I personally prefer to listen to Berlin Era Bowie or early Talking Heads than Wolf Parade any day. Whether its Literature, Art or Music, the innovators are always the best and it goes without saying. They are the inventors of the new vocabulary...there is a tendency that the product is more pure.
i don't think that's true. just because something is innovative doesn't always mean it's good. some of the best art / music / literature in the world is the result of borrowing/stealing innovations from other people, and making it better. innovation is an ongoing process..
quote:
...if you haven't figured out that basic logic yet, wait for it. For some it comes with age.
you're starting to sound like Tiven
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Edited by - floop on 10/23/2005 12:49:50 |
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2005 : 13:21:20
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All I've learned by getting older is the skills to pay the bills.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2005 : 13:57:08
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| i've learned what a hemorrhoid is |
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HeywoodJablome
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1485 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2005 : 14:04:33
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| and you learned how to spell it too. |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2005 : 16:02:01
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
i don't think that's true. just because something is innovative doesn't always mean it's good. some of the best art / music / literature in the world is the result of borrowing/stealing innovations from other people, and making it better. innovation is an ongoing process..
quote:
...if you haven't figured out that basic logic yet, wait for it. For some it comes with age.
you're starting to sound like Tiven
Well then, if you are talking innovation, and that it is in fact an ongoing process, you'd better come up with some examples...
...because, what I am pointing out here, is that those who are passionate on the subject will seek out the innovators in whatever creative field...yes? I think most would agree that Robert Johnson was an innovator, while Jimmy Page (for example) was merely applying the vocabulary set by Johnson, and thus expanding on it?
My point here is that merely applying the vocabulary that others have created does not an innovator make.
My initial point was that modern bands are always being hyped up as being 'innovative' when it all amounts to a variation of an existing theme or common elements. ...and thus, rather than listen to Wolf Parade...listen to what Bowie did in Berlin. Which was a pure departure from the standard fare. ...and yes, while Bowie was influenced by various musicians, it was truly an innovation.
...if you think of it in terms of visual arts, we do know that Marcel Duchamp was influenced by previous movements, particularly impressionism, but did he not innovate in the sense that he changed the vocabulary of art. (ie. What is Art?)...we now call him the precursor to Pop Art yes? or the Father of Post-Modern Art. and yet Lichenstein, Rauschenburg and Warhol were innovators from that point on yes? ...and did not merely variate on Duchamp's themes yes?
...so yes, we are talking about the nature of art and influence and innovations....if you cannot figure that out, whatever.
...dead horse. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2005 : 18:30:24
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quote:
...because, what I am pointing out here, is that those who are passionate on the subject will seek out the innovators in whatever creative field...yes? I think most would agree that Robert Johnson was an innovator, while Jimmy Page (for example) was merely applying the vocabulary set by Johnson, and thus expanding on it?
My point here is that merely applying the vocabulary that others have created does not an innovator make.
frank black francis, if you read my post again, i think what i'm saying is fairly straightforward. i'm not disagreeing with your ideas of what it means to be an innovator. i disagree with your statement that "the innovators are always the best" (your words).. in your example of Robert Johnson (innovator) and Jimmy Page (expanding on Robert Johnson's innovation), one could argue that Jimmy Page does what Robert Johnson invented, only he does it much better. i personally don't have strong opinions on either of them, but you get my point yes?
quote:
Well then, if you are talking innovation, and that it is in fact an ongoing process, you'd better come up with some examples...
the first "talking" movie, featuring human voices, was called THE JAZZ SINGER (1927).. that was innovative. arguably, that was the most innovative moment in film history to this day. but there were much much better films released very soon afterwards, like Fritz Lang's "M". which is still considered to be one of the best films ever made.
quote:
My initial point was that modern bands are always being hyped up as being 'innovative' when it all amounts to a variation of an existing theme or common elements. ...and thus, rather than listen to Wolf Parade...listen to what Bowie did in Berlin. Which was a pure departure from the standard fare. ...and yes, while Bowie was influenced by various musicians, it was truly an innovation.
ain't disagreeing with you on that homie.
quote:
...if you think of it in terms of visual arts, we do know that Marcel Duchamp was influenced by previous movements, particularly impressionism, but did he not innovate in the sense that he changed the vocabulary of art. (ie. What is Art?)...we now call him the precursor to Pop Art yes? or the Father of Post-Modern Art. and yet Lichenstein, Rauschenburg and Warhol were innovators from that point on yes? ...and did not merely variate on Duchamp's themes yes?
would you say that The Pixies and/or Frank Black were innovative? or were they combining elements of other previously invented styles? or both?
regardless of what your answer is, or how you define what it means to be innovative.. my point is merely that, for me, there's a separation between recognition for being innovative, and recognition for being good. someone might be the innovator of something, but often times someone else comes along and does it much better.
another example: though there is some disagreement on the matter, historians contend that the practice of removing sap from maple trees was invented by the native Indians somewhere in North America. but one they don't disagree about is that the fact peoples of the region now known as Vermont took that practice and escalated it above and beyond anything native Americans could have ever hoped for. and to this day the maple syrups of Vermont have yet to be surpassed.
quote:
...so yes, we are talking about the nature of art and influence and innovations....if you cannot figure that out, whatever.
awesome. i love how you accuse VoVat of having a coniption fit :) |
Edited by - floop on 10/23/2005 19:11:26 |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2005 : 19:26:09
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Innovative = Good...
...Had Robert Johnson not come along, I'm sure Jimmy Page would've played a mean skiffle, but it would likely not have gone much beyond that.
...I enjoy the hell outta the Pixies and Frank Black, and yes he is an innovator....you can see that easily as he has changed his structure, song-writing and musical style over the years, not so much as a way to achieve commercial success, but, in my opinion, to basically evolve.
...but what is blowing my mind right now, is that between posts I was in fact watching Fritz Lang's "M"....that is really creepy....funny, but I was actually talking to my wife during the viewing about the Zietgeist of the 1920-30s, and Bauhaus, (Land, Mondrian, Van de Rohe)....and innovation, yadayada....weird. |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2005 : 09:04:51
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quote:
I enjoy the hell outta the Pixies and Frank Black, and yes he is an innovator....you can see that easily as he has changed his structure, song-writing and musical style over the years, not so much as a way to achieve commercial success, but, in my opinion, to basically evolve.
But he's only an innovator if these styles are ones that hadn't been done before, right? Simply changing your style doesn't make you innovative.
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2005 : 10:39:16
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I like what I have heard so far. I can see them being a grower too.
 I'd walk her everyday, into a shady place
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2005 : 17:07:48
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
But he's only an innovator if these styles are ones that hadn't been done before, right? Simply changing your style doesn't make you innovative.
nit-pick much do we? |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2005 : 20:59:40
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| They played Dublin recently. |
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hWolsky
= Cult of Ray =
France
696 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2005 : 02:42:27
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PERE UBU
Discovered this band thanks to Frank Black.
By far the greatest "arty" band of the seventies and more.
No pretention, only mere perception. Visonary feeling.
David Thomas, by far the GREATEST performer I ever saw.
And a real NICE person.
Check out their the Single "Kathleen" for a full and funny conversation between Frank Black and Thomas as B-Sides.
Check out their Beach Boys advanced-cd video for amazing contemporary performances.
Look out.
Soulseek codename: merdre
**** |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2005 : 03:32:06
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quote:
....it is pretty dang preposterous that Pere Ubu is not mentioned more on this forum, as they were an obvious influence on Frank Black and Radiohead (Pynchon references)---as well, if you did your homework, there are many Ubu/Frank Black links (ie. Eric Drew, Two Pale Boys, Al Clay, etc..)
What Pynchon references they got, FBF?
--
Buy your best friend flowers. Buy your lover a beer. Covet thy father. Covet thy neighbour's father. Honour thy lover's beer. Covet thy neighbour's father's wife's sister. Take her to bingo night. |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2005 : 15:52:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Newo
What Pynchon references they got, FBF?
Modern Dance and Dub Housing have quite a few... |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 11:35:54
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quote:
quote:
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Originally posted by VoVat
But he's only an innovator if these styles are ones that hadn't been done before, right? Simply changing your style doesn't make you innovative.
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nit-pick much do we?
Well, yes, actually. <g> But I don't see how this is nit-picking. You said, in so many words, that Frank is an innovator because he changes his style. I pointed out that this doesn't make much sense.
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 14:53:14
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| nit-pick much do we? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6290 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2005 : 02:12:49
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I only heard 'Story of my Life' and that record is perfect pop.
It sounds a bit like Teenager (Al Clay worked on the record) too!
Great songs overall, especially Kathleen, Wasted, on a high wire
should listen to more of them, but I have so little time
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God save the Noisies |
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hWolsky
= Cult of Ray =
France
696 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2005 : 02:24:06
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Do listen to them!! In the "modern period" look for "Raygun Suitcase" it recently was rereleased in the 'Director's cut' edition in the US...
**** |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7446 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2005 : 03:55:45
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Just bought Ray Gun Suitcase. Don't know if it's the best way to get into Pere Ubu but it was the cheapest...
Denis
"You know what? You know what? You know what? Shut the fuck up!" |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6290 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2005 : 09:35:16
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I love being cheap
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God save the Noisies |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2005 : 11:35:15
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quote:
nit-pick much do we?
Criticize and dodge the issue much, do we?
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2005 : 18:15:08
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
quote:
nit-pick much do we?
Criticize and dodge the issue much, do we?
listen to TMBG much, do we? |
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therewererumours
* Dog in the Sand *
Ireland
1240 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2005 : 19:01:12
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quote:
Originally posted by bumblebeeboy2
how come no one ever mentions them? no fans in here? i saw them the other week in manchester, were absolutely fantastic!
The Monkey Helper has had a make-over! http://www.monkeyhelper.co.uk (that is my band)
If Mereubu still posted here, she'd tell you how much she liked them. It was because of people talking about them on this forum that I checked out samples of their stuff, been meaning to buy some of their albums since. Pitty I missed them when they played in Dublin.
On the thirty-first floor your gold-plated door
Won't keep out the Lord's burning rain |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2005 : 19:04:42
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quote:
quote:
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Originally posted by VoVat
quote:
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nit-pick much do we?
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Criticize and dodge the issue much, do we?
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listen to TMBG much, do we?
Say things ending with "do we" much, do we?
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
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paintmeister
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2005 : 21:36:23
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There is a quote somewhere in Allmusic.com that refers to David Thomas and Pere Ubu that says (roughly) "to some the music is totally incomprehensible and to others utterly compelling." I fall in the latter category.
I think it was Mereubu that suggested where I should start with Pere Ubu. I am now a full-blown fan. I have all of David Thomas' works but I still don't have all the Pere Ubu. |
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velvety
= Cult of Ray =
Portugal
536 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2005 : 05:05:48
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Is it even possible to have all of Pere Ubu's stuff? What about those late 80's pop albuns they did? Aren't they supposed to be "lost" or impossible to find or something?
Vilainde, I've always found Ray Gun Suitcase to be kind of hit or miss. It has some great songs but it kind of drags toward the end. If you find it, get St. Arkansas. My favourite from the 'modern period'. |
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Crispy Water
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
819 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2005 : 13:08:41
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A bunch of the late-'80s stuff seems to pop up at used shops around here, so someone must have bought them.
The public library here also has some. Maybe you could check there.
Nothing is ever something. |
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Pere Ubu
