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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
 Posted - 09/02/2005 : 22:28:58
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Finding someone attractive automatically necessitates objectifying them?
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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Surfer Rosa
> Teenager of the Year <
4209 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2005 : 02:21:24
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Doesn't necessitate, but it's certainly an added bonus.
Surely there are parts of your girlfriend that you obsess over? I can think of so many past lovers where maybe they haven't been conventionally attractive but were made up of pieces that I couldn't get enough of - eyes, smile, mouth, hips, the small of the back, that bit between the neck and shoulder - the list could go on for days.
Fire made it good. |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2005 : 09:45:42
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How are you defining "objectify" here?
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2005 : 16:40:48
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
Finding someone attractive automatically necessitates objectifying them?
you tell me. i'd honestly like to know...
personally, i don't understand exacty what people mean by "objectifying". that's why i ask the question..
at what point does something become "objectifying" and at what point is it not "objectifying".. ? i would love someone to explain to me the difference between finding someone you see out on the street attractive and finding someone attractive you see in a picture. or. finding physical aspects of your girlfriend or boyfriend attractive..
and then i'd like that person to explain to me exactly what's wrong with that |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2005 : 21:04:26
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I'm not totally sure either, which is why I asked about the definition. I don't think finding someone aesthetically pleasing is necessarily the same as objectifying them. Well, maybe it is, under some definitions of the word, but I think the word has a connotation implying that you're seeing that person as an object.
There's more to it than that, but I don't feel like thinking any more about it right now. I think there IS somewhat of a difference between some of the situations you've mentioned, but I can't articulate it at the moment.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 16:49:30
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
I'm not totally sure either, which is why I asked about the definition. I don't think finding someone aesthetically pleasing is necessarily the same as objectifying them. Well, maybe it is, under some definitions of the word, but I think the word has a connotation implying that you're seeing that person as an object.
There's more to it than that, but I don't feel like thinking any more about it right now. I think there IS somewhat of a difference between some of the situations you've mentioned, but I can't articulate it at the moment.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied.
when you figure it out will you let me know? i'm still in the dark on this one..
can anyone out there explain it to me? |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 17:43:40
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Yeah, I think vovat is right. Objectifying implies that you no longer think of the person as a person. You think of them as an object. Something without feelings or deserving of respect. So, if that's the definition:
objectifying = bad
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 17:53:03
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I hold a more Clintonian view. I'm all about compartamentalizing. You can both objectify/treat as an object and respect/have feelings for.
Sometimes, no matter how shitty things get, you have to just do a little dance. - Frank
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Edited by - kathryn on 09/04/2005 17:57:38 |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 18:26:42
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin
Yeah, I think vovat is right. Objectifying implies that you no longer think of the person as a person. You think of them as an object. Something without feelings or deserving of respect. So, if that's the definition:
objectifying = bad
but where exactly do we draw the line between finding someone physically attractive and seeing them as an object? i'm still having a hard time understanding the difference..
if i see a girl i don't know and think she's attractive am i "objectifying" her? i don't know her so i can't have much of an idea of what kind of person she is.. at that stage, it's a purely physical attraction. it could just be a matter of, "wow, she has a nice ass".. does that automatically imply that i don't think she deserves respect or has feelings?
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 18:32:53
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| Objectifying lingerie is also not on. |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 19:45:30
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I think the real question is how Kathryn defines "is."
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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Surfer Rosa
> Teenager of the Year <
4209 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 00:58:18
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
I hold a more Clintonian view. I'm all about compartamentalizing. You can both objectify/treat as an object and respect/have feelings for.
Sometimes, no matter how shitty things get, you have to just do a little dance. - Frank
What this clever lady said.
Fire made it good. |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 07:48:06
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If you have respect for someone, though, is it possible to treat them as an object?
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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Surfer Rosa
> Teenager of the Year <
4209 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 07:49:59
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Oh yes.
Fire made it good. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 09:47:41
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
If you have respect for someone, though, is it possible to treat them as an object?
Even more so.
Sometimes, no matter how shitty things get, you have to just do a little dance. - Frank
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 12:04:53
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See, I don't think I can separate the various aspects of a person as easily as some of you can.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 05:36:35
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| They should extend it to lingerie week. They'd get more viewers! ;) |
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benji
> Teenager of the Year <
New Zealand
3426 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 05:42:07
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well i think it's on probly every day carl. i just have to figure out it's actual programming time and i'll be setting the vcr....
haven't managed to catch it since, which is beginning to worry me..
 Join the Cult of Fat! |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 06:49:41
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| Maybe it's been banned!! ;) |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 13:56:11
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It's all Janet Jackson's fault!
Oh, wait. That was last year.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 13:58:27
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| I don't see how you can be an object and more than an object at the same time? |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2005 : 14:01:26
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| i still don't understand how thinking someone is attractive is viewing them as an object |
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 01:26:44
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quote:
Originally posted by starmekitten
I don't see how you can be an object and more than an object at the same time?
It's all in Sartre's "Being and nothingness"
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 10:09:31
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quote:
I don't see how you can be an object and more than an object at the same time?
It's like how light can be both a wave AND a particle.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 10:24:18
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I went on a major lingerie spree this week specifically for the sake of objectification.
Sometimes, no matter how shitty things get, you have to just do a little dance. - Frank
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Z_Zoquis
- FB Fan -
145 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 10:34:06
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If your "lady" says "that's it, I'm leaving you!" and your response is "OK, but are you taking those with you?" than you are guilty of unhealthy objectification. ;)
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Z_Zoquis
- FB Fan -
145 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 10:42:31
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| On a more serious note, I tend to think that "objectification" is something that applies more on a broad gender context than on the one on one relationship level. For instance, a guy might come to believe that women in general are defined by their breasts and nothing else. This could of course impact personal relationships in a negative way too though. I mean I'm sure most women would become annoyed if they couldn't have a conversation with their fella without him staring intently at her "prodigious accoutremonts" so to speak. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 11:22:22
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i'm sure there are men out there like that, but i think that's the minority.. maybe guys who never have relationshiops and only go to strip clubs think like that. or guys who have serious issues with women..
but that still doesn't mean that appreciating physical beauty is "objectification" ..
i don't know about you guys, but i've never had a girlfriend complain when i complimented her on her good looks. either in a general way, or, specific physical attributes |
Edited by - floop on 09/07/2005 11:34:38 |
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Z_Zoquis
- FB Fan -
145 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 12:49:15
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"but that still doesn't mean that appreciating physical beauty is "objectification" .."
no argument from me on that count. :)
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 13:59:21
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quote:
i'm sure there are men out there like that, but i think that's the minority..
I tend to think the same thing, but sometimes I get the idea that there are more guys like that than you or I might expect.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 15:55:13
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
I tend to think the same thing, but sometimes I get the idea that there are more guys like that than you or I might expect.
what gives you that idea mr. VoVat? |
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Surfer Rosa
> Teenager of the Year <
4209 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 16:01:01
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I see it as being part of human nature and frankly you're denying yourself one of life's great cheap thrills if you don't partake in the odd bit of objectifying.
Fire made it good. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 16:55:54
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
maybe guys who never have relationshiops and only go to strip clubs think like that.
I've never been to a strip club. Does that make me a loser?
Sometimes, no matter how shitty things get, you have to just do a little dance. - Frank
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2005 : 12:53:34
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Aren't strip clubs generally more of a guy thing anyway? I don't know. I've never been to one either.
As for guys who have serious issues with women, I've run into a few. You know, the type who spend all their time looking at porno and going to strip clubs or whatever, and then get annoyed that real women don't live up to their crazy expectations. Perhaps such men are in the minority, though. I certainly hope so.
And, for what it's worth, I'm not saying I have anything AGAINST porn or strip clubs. It's just that, when coupled with unpleasant attitudes and lack of exposure to actual human relationships, they can be harmful. I don't think they are in and of themselves, though. It's really a personal thing.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2005 : 12:54:46
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Don't be dissing porn, VoVat. Don't be dissing porn.
Sometimes, no matter how shitty things get, you have to just do a little dance. - Frank
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lingerie hour....
