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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
 Posted - 08/17/2005 : 02:59:14
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Here is a recent article taken from Yahoo news regarding the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes, the Brazilian guy who was killed last month by the Anti Terror Police. This is pretty damning against the police, and shows that alot of the initial reports were incorrect i.e. the guy was not running away from the police, nor was he wearing a large coat etc..
Comments anyone?
Terror Police Shooting 'Blunders' Leaked
A leaked report has alleged serious police blunders in the shooting of an innocent Brazilian man shot dead by anti-terrorist officers on the Tube.Jean Charles de Menezes was killed at Stockwell Tube station in south London in the mistaken belief he was linked to the failed July 21 bomb attempts.Documents leaked to ITV News suggest Mr de Menezes did not flee from armed officers by vaulting over barriers before getting onto an Underground train, where the officers opened fire.
The Brazilian was not even seen leaving the flats in Tulse Hill which were under surveillance because one of the officers was "relieving himself."
But during his journey to the Tube station officers decided he matched the description of one of two terror suspects, including Hussein Osman, the alleged Shepherd's Bush attempted bomber.
The leaked report says Mr de Menezes entered the station at a normal walking pace and picked up a copy of a free newspaper.
He was seen to slowly descend the escalators before running for a train and sitting down.
The report also indicated the 27-year-old was wearing a light denim jacket and not the heavily padded coat as initially claimed.
Witnesses said that he was not aware he was being followed until shot dead on the Tube.
But the report says: "CCTV captured Mr de Menezes running across the concourse and entering the carriage before sitting down.
"Almost simultaneously, armed officers were provided with positive identification."
One police officer is quoted as saying he was able to grab Mr de Menezes and pin his arms to his side before the shooting started.
The report also said a post mortem examination showed that Mr de Menezes was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder, but three other bullets missed.
The new account was said to have been obtained from the Independent Police Complaints Commission investigation into the killing of the electrician.
The de Menezes family lawyer Harriet Wistrich said: "It raises very, very serious questions about the shoot-to-kill policy and shows immediate questions need to be asked about whether this policy should be in operation and how dangerously wrong it can go.
"The family have always known that this was absolutely an outrageous mistake, at the very least, and that their son was entirely innocent."
The IPCC says its investigation is continuing and its priority is to disclose any findings directly to the family.
A spokesman said: "The IPCC made it clear that we would not speculate or release partial information about the investigation, and that others should not do so.
Both Scotland Yard and the Home Office say it would be inappropriate to comment
This is a high class bureau de change, not some Punch & Judy show on the seafront at Margate! |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 03:04:26
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Here's another one from Guardian website:
New claims emerge over Menezes death
， Brazilian was held before being shot
， Police failed to identify him
， He made no attempt to run away
Rosie Cowan, Duncan Campbell and Vikram Dodd
Wednesday August 17, 2005
The Guardian
The young Brazilian shot dead by police on a London tube train in mistake for a suicide bomber had already been overpowered by a surveillance officer before he was killed, according to secret documents revealed last night.
It also emerged in the leaked documents that early allegations that he was running away from police at the time of the shooting were untrue and that he appeared unaware that he was being followed.
Relatives and the dead man's legal team expressed shock and outrage at the revelations. Scotland Yard has continued to justify a shoot-to-kill policy.
Jean Charles de Menezes died after being shot on a tube train at Stockwell station in south London on July 22, the morning after the failed bomb attacks in London.
But the evidence given to the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) by police officers and eyewitnesses and leaked to ITV News shows that far from leaping a ticket barrier and fleeing from police, as was initially reported, he was filmed on CCTV calmly entering the station and picking up a free newspaper before boarding the train.
It has now emerged that Mr de Menezes:
， was never properly identified because a police officer was relieving himself at the very moment he was leaving his home;
， was unaware he was being followed;
， was not wearing a heavy padded jacket or belt as reports at the time suggested;
， never ran from the police;
， and did not jump the ticket barrier.
But the revelation that will prove most uncomfortable for Scotland Yard was that the 27-year-old electrician had already been restrained by a surveillance officer before being shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder.
The documents reveal that a member of the surveillance team, who sat nearby, grabbed Mr de Menezes before he was shot: "I heard shouting which included the word 'police' and turned to face the male in the denim jacket.
"He immediately stood up and advanced towards me and the CO19 [firearms squad] officers ... I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side. I then pushed him back on to the seat where he had been previously sitting ... I then heard a gun shot very close to my left ear and was dragged away on to the floor of the carriage."
The leaked documents and pictures showed the failures in the police operation from the time Mr de Menezes left home.
A surveillance officer admitted in a witness statement that he was unable to positively identify Mr de Menezes as a suspect because the officer had been relieving himself when the Brazilian left the block of flats where he lived.
The police were on a high state of alert because of the July 7 and July 21 bombings, and had been briefed that they may be called upon to carry out new tactics - shooting dead suspected suicide bombers in order to avoid another atrocity.
The IPCC investigation report states that the firearms unit had been told that "unusual tactics" might be required and if they "were deployed to intercept a subject and there was an opportunity to challenge, but if the subject was non-compliant, a critical shot may be taken".
But it now appears, that contrary to earlier claims, Mr de Menezes was oblivious to the stakeout operation. On the morning of July 22, police officers were in Scotia Road, Tulse Hill, watching a property they believed contained one or more of the would-be bombers who had tried to detonate four bombs on London transport less than 24 hours before.
One firearms officer is quoted as saying: "The current strategy around the address was as follows: no subject coming out of the address would be allowed to run and that an interception should take place as soon as possible away from the address trying not to compromise it."
But the report shows that there was a failure in the surveillance operation and officers wrongly believed Mr de Menezes could have been one of two suspects.
The leaked papers state: "De Menezes was observed walking to a bus stop and then boarded a bus, travelling to Stockwell tube station.
"During the course of this, his description and demeanour was assessed and it was believed he matched the identity of one of the suspected wanted for terrorist offences ... the information was passed through the operations centre and gold command made the decision and gave appropriate instructions that de Menezes was to be prevented from entering the tube system. At this stage the operation moved to code red tactic, responsibility was handed over to CO19."
CCTV footage shows Mr de Menezes was not wearing a padded jacket, as originally claimed, and that he walked calmly through the barriers at Stockwell station, collecting a free newspaper before going down the escalator. Only then did he run to catch the train.
A man sitting opposite him is quoted as saying: "Within a few seconds I saw a man coming into the double doors to my left. He was pointing a small black handgun towards a person sitting opposite me. He pointed the gun at the right hand side of the man's head. The gun was within 12 inches of the man's head when the first shot was fired."
A senior police source last night told the Guardian that the leaked documents and statements gave an accurate picture of what was known so far about the shooting. But the IPCC refused to confirm the documents were genuine adding: "Our priority is to disclose any findings direct to the family, who will clearly be distressed that they have received information on television concerning his death."
The home secretary, Charles Clarke, said: "It is critically important for the integrity of the independent police investigating process that no pressure is put upon the IPCC before their full report is published and that no comment is made until that time."
Harriet Wistrich, lawyer for the family, said: "There is incompetence on the part of those watching the suspect and a serious breakdown of communication."
Asad Rehman, spokesman for the family's campaign, called for a public inquiry. "This was not an accident," he said. "It was serious neglect. Clearly, there was a failure both in police intelligence and on an operational level."
This is a high class bureau de change, not some Punch & Judy show on the seafront at Margate! |
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Ten Percenter
- FB Enquirer -
United Kingdom
1733 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 03:06:59
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This was on the TV news last night. The leaked documents are very damning indeed. The bit about the policeman not managing to video and identify Menezes as he, the policeman, was "relieving himself" pretty much sums it up.
"Fried food, cigarettes, no exercise, chest pain..." (Excerpt from the Angina Monologues) |
Edited by - Ten Percenter on 08/17/2005 03:13:18 |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 03:17:39
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It's fucking disgraceful... action has to be taken against the police responsible for this. When I heard the first reports of this incident my opinions were different as it was made out at first that the guy posed an actual threat and that the police had to make a split second decision... but this has turned out to be lies.
I have no faith in the anti-terror tactics anymore... the police have to be brought to justice for this fuck up.
This is a high class bureau de change, not some Punch & Judy show on the seafront at Margate! |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 03:33:40
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Calling it a 'blunder' like the article does is pussyfooting about it. Notice how the reports (not this one but a couple I read right after) usually say 'De Menezes, who was gunned down on Friday etc' first of all, using the passive voice you don't give the reader's imagination as much to dwell on as you would with the use of an active subject 'Police gunned down De Menezes.' Then there is the use of the phrasal verb 'gunned down', hugely popular in modern journalism because it is less evocative than the simple and effective 'shot' and is easier to make light of an incident like this premeditated murder.
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Develop interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music -- the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself. |
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1718 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 04:26:54
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Let's hear it for civilization once more!
I jumped on the Frank Black Bandwagon/'Cause Pixies are so 2004 |
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 05:14:04
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do you think the situation could be said to be criminal? ie criminal negligence, criminal use of force and deliberate misinformation.
Do you think anyone will be prosecuted over it?
No power in the 'verse can stop me
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 05:44:58
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quote:
Originally posted by jediroller
Let's hear it for civilization once more!
I jumped on the Frank Black Bandwagon/'Cause Pixies are so 2004
Best...post...ever....
Sometimes, no matter how shitty things get, you have to just do a little dance. - Frank
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 06:03:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Llamadance
do you think the situation could be said to be criminal? ie criminal negligence, criminal use of force and deliberate misinformation.
Do you think anyone will be prosecuted over it?
No power in the 'verse can stop me
I don't know... the SAS were hauled over the coals back in the late 80's when they blew away those 3 unarmed IRA bombers on Gibraltar. I remember the inquest into the killings but I cannot remember if the SAS guys were prosecuted or not.
I think the police should be made to answer for what has happened. If the articles today are the truth then it shows that the police had no justification whatsoever for their ridiculously extreme actions. I still haven't heard that the police have actually come out and said why they were tailing the man have they?
I will continue to hold the opinion that if the police had good reason to believe that a suicide bomber was heading toward the tube, who was aware that he was being tailed by the police and was running away from them despite calls for him/her to stop, then they are justified in shooting. Thats what the initial press reports led us to believe. But now this is looking like quite the opposite to what happened. How can they justify killing a guy who showed no evidence of being a suicide bomber, and who was not in fact resisting arrest and was not frantically running on the tube to detonate himself?? I don't think that politicians or the head of the police can get away with just saying 'Sadly we regret the events but the chances are that it will unfortunately happen again.' Someone has to be held accountable.... but whether they eventually are is another thing I guess.
I cannot understand the actions of the police, it defies belief!
This is a high class bureau de change, not some Punch & Judy show on the seafront at Margate! |
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benji
> Teenager of the Year <
New Zealand
3426 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 06:10:28
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i think we need to have these events clarified before we can really get too upset about them.
"leaked documents" often have the habit of turning out to be "made-up documents" and for such a serious matter as this, confirmation is needed soon or else some rather serious shit may very well go down.
 Join the Cult of Cartman! Respect my Authoritaah!!! |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 07:03:53
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You're right Benji.
This is a high class bureau de change, not some Punch & Judy show on the seafront at Margate! |
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Anti Terror Police Article
