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 honeycomb db threads - selkie bride
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-

United Kingdom
6370 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2005 :  05:46:02  Show Profile  Visit starmekitten's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I thought I'd start these while you're all still excitable and the material on forum is fresh :P

Lyrics from the Japanese booklet courtesy of Moro:

Selkie Bride

Human form she had
in Crescent City
She showed me her pity
lucky me
In a storm so bad
the worst of the autumn
She came from the bottom
of the sea

Please won't you stay awhile?
Give me your coat
Then we'll fall in love in my boat
You'll be my Selkie Bride

Please give me no denial
A promise I give
I'll forsake the life that I love
Now you're by my side
If you return again
I'll be the saddest man
My lips will burn your skin
If you return again
Please don't return again
Please don't return again
Please don't return again

Human form she had in Crescent City
She showed me her pity, lucky me
On that day so sad
breezy and sunny
She melted like honey
in the sea

Quotes
Thanks to Llamadance (the superstar) here
Originally from Night Times on 12/06/2005

I've been trying to record it for years, tweaking the lyrics and doing whatever I could to make it feel right. Then at some point I read some of the words to my therapist, and she pointed out that they actually applied to events and people in my own life. It was only when I viewed the song from a more personal perspective that it made sense to me and I was able to finish it.

Now I know there's bound to be the odd other quote about it, and that some of you know more than I about the legend of the Selkie, so discuss and collate to your hearts content!



and you're questioning the sciences
and questioning religion
you're looking like an idiot
and you no longer care.


Edited by - starmekitten on 07/27/2005 05:46:46

jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *

France
1718 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2005 :  06:27:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's been mentioned here before: the John Sayles movie "The Secret Of Roan Inish" can be viewed as a good introduction to the legend of the Selkie.

Google brought up this nice link:
http://www.orkneyjar.com/folklore/selkiefolk/


I jumped on the Frank Black Bandwagon/'Cause Pixies are so 2004
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-

United Kingdom
6370 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2005 :  06:31:54  Show Profile  Visit starmekitten's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I just read this story on there: http://www.orkneyjar.com/folklore/selkiefolk/wastness.htm

my thats sad


and you're questioning the sciences
and questioning religion
you're looking like an idiot
and you no longer care.

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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *

France
1718 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2005 :  06:54:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, they always return again.


I jumped on the Frank Black Bandwagon/'Cause Pixies are so 2004
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5611 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2005 :  14:31:46  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
beautiful lyrics
'please don't return again'
makes me want to cry


yoda: young thompson is in terrible pain


---------------------------
God save the Noisies
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-

United Kingdom
6370 Posts

Posted - 07/27/2005 :  14:44:52  Show Profile  Visit starmekitten's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Good idea with the wikipedia thing K, I'll just add the link here for future reference: Selkie on Wikipedia


and you're questioning the sciences
and questioning religion
you're looking like an idiot
and you no longer care.

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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5611 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2005 :  03:33:19  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
guess you're right


---------------------------
God save the Noisies
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OldManInaCoffeeCan
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
1467 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2005 :  07:00:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn

quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman


'please don't return again'





I think this line is key, in that it can be easily misunderstood to be the man asking her not to return to him, whereas, if I understand the selkie myth correctly, he's begging her not to forsake him for her former life.

Also to be understood in this light is the line "give me your coat." He's not being chivalrous at some party, offering to take her jacket; he's trying to capture her so she can never leave him.


Sometimes, no matter how shitty things get, you have to just do a little dance. - Frank





Yes, Yes, Yes, now I see it (this post, your post from Wikipedia, and the lyrics)...very enlightening, thank you Kathryn.


Hey, so, read along with the quote from Night Times thanks to Llamadance, if this song mirrors some personal situations in Frank's personal life then:

I guess the "In a storm so bad the worst of the autumn" is the dissolution of Frank's marriage to Jean (autumn, as in the autumn of their 16 years or so relationship)

and, "She came from the bottom of the sea" of course is his new selkie bride which is either Violet or some other love before Violet but after Jean. Probably Violet though, and there must have been a issue of Frank losing Violet, so much so, that he had to promise to forsake all others [I'll forsake the life that I love],...they are together now [Now you're by my side]...and she best not leave him [If you return again I'll be the saddest man]...



Damn, that love thing, even the love that liberates us, is illusive, fragile, uncertain, unpredictable, tyrannical, dictatorial, and vital...



______________________________
I joined the noisy cult of six-sixty-six when I somehow agreed to the Registration Policy
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Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo
* Dog in the Sand *

1033 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2005 :  07:23:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well... The inner lover is not necessary the actual lover. i.e. the one you fuck, the one you go shopping with... the one you despise sometimes.

Frank often refers to surreal, weird creatures or even "monsters" : Velouria, Velvety, Nadine (a gothic girl, could refer to his first wife though) the Selkie Bride, a sort of Ana... Sometimes, this love is abstract, symbolical, muse-esque like Ramona.

My interpretation is that Frank was always looking or thinking of "alternative woman" a woman that is not an actual woman.

There are several interesting conclusions that can be drawn from this statement...



****
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -

Ireland
11546 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2005 :  01:49:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was in the flat of a guy I know recently and I was looking at this beautiful book, Faeries, by Brian Fround and Alan Lee (Tolkien illustrator and a LOTR movies concept artist):



Anyway, it had a little section on selkies (and Pixies, too!), extracts of which I found on these sites:

http://echoes.devin.com/selkie/selkie.html

http://www.fionaurora.com/sea/mermaid/selkie.htm

"The seas around Orkney and Shetland harbor the shy Selkies or Seal-Faeries (known as the Roane in Ireland). A female Selkie is able to discard her seal skin and come ashore as a beautiful maiden. If a human can capture His skin, the selkie can be forced to become a fine, if wistful, wife. However, should she ever find her skin she immediately returns to the sea, leaving the husband to pine and die. The males raise storms and upturn boats to avenge the indicriminate slaughter of the seals." -- Brian Froud and Alan Lee, "Faeries"

Selkies / Selchies / Water Kelpies / Seal Faeries



Alan Lee/Brian Froud from the book Faeries

A Selkie is a Scottish version of the mermaid except these creatures take the form of seals when in the water and human form on dry land. In human form, they are depicted as beautiful women with dark hair and eyes and webbing between their fingers and toes. In seal form they are sometimes depicted with human-ish eyes.

The selkie stories/myths all revolve around the selkie removing its seal-skin which makes them take human form. Once their seal-skins were discarded, selkies became extremely attractive to humans and it was not uncommon for relationships to form. Either the selkie decides to stay on land with her love or her love hides her seal-skin. It is said that without their skins, the selkies were trapped on land and must obey whoever holds their skin.

The selkie stays on land, has children with her mortal lover and pines away wishing to return to the sea. Eventually she returns to sea on her own accord or because her skin was relocated. The husband (or person who took and hid her skin) is said to pine for her and eventually die.


And check these out, too:

http://www.orkneyjar.com/folklore/selkiefolk/

http://www.legends.dm.net/fairy/selchies.html



Selkie Bride-the puppet play!

http://www.edinburghguide.com/aande/theatre/reviews/s/selkie_bride_pup.shtml

A little story here:

http://www.uexpress.com/tellmeastory/?uc_full_date=19991128



http://images.google.ie/images?q=faeries+selkie&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images

BTW, as you may have seen, if you Google 'selkie bride', kathryn gets a mention!

Oh yeah....just for fun, Selkies and Pixies!!

http://faerie.monstrous.com/faerie_n-z.htm

http://www.rochester.lib.ny.us/folklorefairytales/fabulous_beasts.html

http://www.ibiblio.org/TH/cgi-bin/help.cgi?faeries


http://www.worldoffroud.com/www/faeries/faeries/faery1.cfm

Edited by - Carl on 12/29/2005 16:27:00
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fbc
-= Modulator =-

United Kingdom
4903 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2005 :  14:33:46  Show Profile  Visit fbc's Homepage  Reply with Quote
These are quotes from the 'Comes With A Smile' interview.

quote:
He [JTiven] called me back the next day and said, "it's all set up, I got Cropper, I got Oldham etc." I was like wow!

Were the songs written beforehand or did you write them as soon as you got the go ahead with this particular band in mind?
As soon as. And then I had to call him back the next day and say the Pixies tour is back on, I only have a four, five day window I can do it in. So I had maybe two months to prepare for the session. I started writing the songs then, so all the songs were written in that brief period with the exception of Selkie Bride which I had written a few years ago and was never happy with.

You seem to be doing that thing wich Dylan does so well and that's taking autobiographical material and transforming it into this whole mytho-poetic construction which resonates on several diverse and congruous levels. Like the way he transmutes his marriage and subsequent separation into Isis - would you say this was a fair summation of what you're trying to do?
Yeah, especially with songs like I Burn Today and Sing for Joy. Even Selkie Bride which was a song about the mythical creature. I started writing it a few years ago and it wasn't a personal song. I was never quite happy with it and I brought it up to my therapist, read the lyric to her, and she said, "well, OK, here's what's going on...you know who the Selkie Bride is, don't you?" And then she said, "now that you realise who the song is about, I think you can finish it." And she was right! It's like women; their psychic antenna is so much stronger than men's. I would sing on records, say 'Show Me Your Tears' or 'Dog in the Sand' and it was in code because I didn't want to know at the time. But Jean, my ex-wife, was like, "hey, what's up man?" And I would be like, "nah...nah...nah. I'm just trying to write a song." And she'd be "OK, man, OK Charles, whatever you say."

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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~

Belize
5305 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2005 :  15:12:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow Carl. That's really neat. I just thought the selkie meant Irish. Now I know.

Very cool quotes FBC. Very cool! Thanks!!
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -

Ireland
11546 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2005 :  16:27:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just Googled that stuff!

"Yo! Ho Ho! Merry Christmas!"
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fbc
-= Modulator =-

United Kingdom
4903 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2005 :  13:20:41  Show Profile  Visit fbc's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Why thank you, daisy, I made them all up myself ;)

I surprised myself with the "written a few years ago" quote. I only found that out yes, today. (sorry! yesterday.)

Edited by - fbc on 12/30/2005 13:21:24
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~

Belize
5305 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2005 :  12:23:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
:) FBC yeah I caught that he'd been working on that too. Well it sounds great the way it is so I am glad he stuck with it. But the history of the selkie makes it make so much more sense.

Crecent City, does that = New Orleans?
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =

Canada
11670 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2006 :  11:28:40  Show Profile  Visit Cult_Of_Frank's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn

quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman


'please don't return again'





I think this line is key, in that it can be easily misunderstood to be the man asking her not to return to him, whereas, if I understand the selkie myth correctly, he's begging her not to forsake him for her former life.

Also to be understood in this light is the line "give me your coat." He's not being chivalrous at some party, offering to take her jacket; he's trying to capture her so she can never leave him.


Sometimes, no matter how shitty things get, you have to just do a little dance. - Frank




Ooh, I like that, it never occurred to me, brilliant! It's a complete 180 on what someone unfamiliar with selkies would assume it means.


"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."
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