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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
 Posted - 05/21/2005 : 19:04:01
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Today my son came home crying. I went to see what was the matter and he reluctantly told me (after telling me a few times to "just go away and leave me alone") that a couple of his friends were making fun of him. They call him the fat kid. And on more than this one occasion.
It makes me angry. These kids have been his friends since kindergarten. They're at my house all the time. I want to narc but I don't know if I should.
He's not obese but he is a bigger kid for sure. Its difficult to know what to tell him because I can't say "no you're skinny". And that would just be patronizing. I try to empathize with him. I try to tell him that it shouldn't matter and that he's awesome no matter what. I try to tell him that its probably a phase and he'll be growing alot soon. I don't know. I feel so bad for the kid. Does it matter what I say? Does it make a difference? I just hate to see him crying.
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
Edited by - Carolynanna on 05/21/2005 19:04:47 |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2005 : 19:35:15
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More...
I really worry. This kid has had a rough start. I was asking my husband about when he was growing up and had a chubby stage, if there was anything thing he said or did that helped. He said, jokingly but not, yeah drugs seemed to help...
D has ADD (no hyperactivity, actually quite the opposite) and almost completely lost his self esteem before we got him into an appropriate and really helpful school for the 2 years that the government thought necessary. His biological father was a real ruthless SOB (although D was adopted by my husband when he was 3.) But he looks different than us and he's always quite aware of this. He took my parents divorce real hard and now hardly has contact with my dad unless my grandma is in town so she can look after him and my dad can pretend to be a good grandpa. My mom is quite useless and hardly ever calls or visits (she calls me often though). His other grandparents and aunts and uncles (save my brother) also don't make any sort of effort to see the kids (unless I'm cooking dinner or they need a favour.) His friends parents are at least 15 years older than us and have had more time to accumulate than us. Some friends get an electric guitar by just mentioning to their parents that they are interested in guitar lessons, D doesn't. Sometimes I think my husband should spend some more one on one time with him but he works an awful lot and seems to lose patience as D is a different type of kid, sometimes I think he nags him too much and has forgotten what a troublemaker kid he was himself whereas D is just forgetful. Sometimes I feel like its only me who takes the responsibility to fill this boy with esteem and confidence. I wonder if I alone can do it.
My son is one special kid. The amount of empathy he has for others often surprises me. He worries if he sees a bum on the street and wonders if he'll be warm enough through the night. He tells me thank you for taking care of him when he is sick. He tells me my smile makes him happy. He isn't competitive, he doesn't like aggressive sports. He love soccer but he likes to play defence. He loves music, always has. He has been so passionate about his guitar since we've got him into lessons. He doesn't get into trouble or fight. All of his teachers say he is a pleasure to have in class. He's fun and seems to get along with everyone and just about anyone but also quite shy and quiet. He has many friends. But he's also the kid that volunteers to show the new kid around at school, even when noone else likes the new kid.
He's going to junior high school next year and I worry.
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
Edited by - Carolynanna on 05/21/2005 19:53:28 |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2005 : 20:41:48
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wish i could give you some advice but this is out of my league.. i'm sorry he's going through a rough time though..
for what it's worth, i will say, it sounds like he's got a lot of positive things going on in his life too (like having the worlds #1 mom [next to mine])..
nonetheless, i defer to the experts.. |
Edited by - floop on 05/21/2005 20:44:05 |
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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2005 : 21:27:05
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The only thing I can think of is to start something like a Big Brother for him, an older role model but not too old and not part of the immediate family. To have someone in his life who is in highschool or college who could hang out with him and become friends, might help to build his self-esteem and teach him to cherish his individuality and to be able to stand up for himself and rise above his misguided peers.
D sounds like an angel, I hope he doesn't lose his great qualities. The love you have for him is so wonderful, that's a blessing you have given.
On a side note I was adopted too and I know the feeling of always being different. And I also think that has developed an identity crisis and low self esteem in my life, and I DID resort to drugs and alcohol so now I have multiple issues to deal with, but it's not something that cannot be coped with...
I'm sure you'll get some good advice, I too shall defer to the experts
much love!
 ... I hate shit that is true |
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OldManInaCoffeeCan
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1467 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2005 : 21:29:39
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Shit, I wish Kathryn was here, she would know what to say, she always does...
Hey Carolynanna, I've got an 11 year old son and an 8 year old girl. My girl is not obesse but she isn't petite either. Her best friend is, and of course Maggie (my daughter) thinks Maggie is fat. Sometimes other kids, but mainly, believe it or not, it's adults, family members or adult friends who comment on her weight, "Is she eating too much", "don't give her snacks", etc...Fuck that shit! My wife and I are very sensitve how comments from others can really hurt one's self-esteem and pretty much fuck with your head for along time. It makes my wife so mad, more than me I think, I don't give a shit what people say about me (well, on the outside anyway, inside it doesn't feel good, but I dismiss it and stay away from those assholes.) But a kid, well they don't have such defense mechanisms. You (Mom and Dad) are their best defense right now. Just keep pointing out the idiots and the stupid stuff they say, and somehow show him that they are the ones with the problem (making themselves feel better by putting others down, and also there are a lot of really mean people out there and we don't have to figure them out, just stay away from them)
Damn, as you know, there probably isn't easy way to deal with this shit. But remember, you're his best friend, his comforter, and the one who believes in him fully, and the one to help him keep his confidence and self-esteem. His lucky he's got you...
Sorry he's having to go through this painful bullshit... |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2005 : 00:15:17
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I don't have any great advice, but I'll keep thinking. I haven't had to deal with that stage of childhood yet.
But, I will say even if some of his friends said some hurtful things about him don't give up on them yet. They're kids. They can say stupid things or more importantly they can start to repeat hurtful things when others have said them. So, maybe (you know the situation better) you can help your son to still trust his better "friends". Don't encourage or facilitate him giving up on his friends. On the other hand you don't want to send him back to group that's going to continue to hurt him.
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Surfer Rosa
> Teenager of the Year <
4209 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2005 : 01:40:55
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That is so so nasty - is it my imagination or are kids getting meaner?
Carolynanna I don't have much advice or words of wisdom either - there are far wiser forum members who I'm sure will be able to help out here, but it sounds to me as if you are doing the best for D (who sounds like an amazing kid) already.
I'll never forget my and my mom's reaction to finding out that one of my friends had been forbidden by her mother from playing with another girl because this girl had a bit extra to her. My mom totally flipped her lid and went out of her way to get Claire included and I realised for the first time that adults get stuff wrong. The reason my friend's mother had forbidden her is because "playing with a fat girl would make her fat" - (now the friend in question is older, deeply unhappy and struggling with self image and eating issues.) You're so right about the phase and growing things too - I can remember so many of the kids I grew up with either growing into themselves (or the exact opposite).
Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes. |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2005 : 02:43:00
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I know it's easy to say, but I think you shouldn't worry too much. Children spontaneously tend to share their parents' worries, especially when they're the source of these worries, and this permeability itself is a direct, and often underestimated, threat to their self-esteem and confidence. If I may say, don't forget to trust your son. The more he'll trust himself, the less others will bother him, no matter he's 'fat', obese or skinny.
That said, I believe that filling a child with confidence and esteem is primarily - not only, but primarily - a fatherly / male responsibility...
 Sometimes you're the windshield / Sometimes you're the bug |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2005 : 05:28:39
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| Kids are kids, but of course stuff like that is unpleasant, and bullying can have quite a bad affect on you as a child. I can't offer any advise, maybe just that you tell him to stand up to them, but of course continue to incourage and listen to him(which I'm sure you do). Hope things settle down for him. |
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2005 : 06:10:24
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Your boy sounds like a star Caroyn, an absolute star and if there were more people like him about this world would be a damned site better, there's never anything wrong with caring, I think it's beautiful.
I don't know, if with kids, it's an entirely conscious act on their parts, that they know they're being cruel and are doing it on purpose, you see it in adults they say the most bastardy things with no idea of the hurt they are causing. Do you know these kids parents? Is it worth speaking to them, if they're the type of people who will be horrified that their kids are engaging in bullying activity and will pull them up on it questionless and rapid style it *will* nip it in the bud, the only time speaking to the parents will fail is if they're the type who'll argue with you about it then go bollock the kid because of the shame of being pulled up on it, there's a distinction I think in the two reactions that determines whether the bully type will realise what they have done and stop or resent being 'told on' and take it out on the kid again.
How would the school deal with it if you spoke to someone there, because I do believe that any institution that takes responsibility for kids at such an impressionable age has to take responsibility for the child as well to a degree. At my school we had councelling sessions for people in these situations and it was amazing how often some of the kids didn't realise how bad they were making other people feel. You always got your bastards who knew full well what they were doing though. It might reassure you some though to know that the extra eyes are there and they are watching to make sure D is fine. Maybe you could make them aware of the situation but ask them not to intervene unless they see it, and they'll be more watchful. That way intervention isn't from you or D it's from a direct authority figure, minimising repercussions elsewhere. As far as telling him to stand up for himself goes, it's harder for sensitive kids to do it because it's so unnatural to them (my youngest brother had similar trouble when he was young) it's also hard not to want to protect them from everything, which might not ultimately be the best thing either.
When I was a kid my mother told me I'd have a growth spurt (five measly foot ha!) you're right not to patronise the boy by telling him untruths, you've just listed amazing qualities to D and I think you should focus on those with him, all the things that are right and build his confidence up that way. He thinks and *cares* and that makes him pretty rocking in my books anyway. His love of music and the guitar is great, you just have to look around at *our* idols to see that image isn't always an issue, check Frank the mans not a skinny bod but he's great big demi god of a guy. I watched harold and maude yesterday, and that scene with the flowers comes to mind about how people are individuals but allow themselves to be treated as a mass. And mass mob rule affects everyone at school, we look different we are wrong, wheras those unique qualities those little differences, should, I think be cherished and nutured.
As far as history and family goes C, there are people who float through and there are people that have battles they can't be protected from and obstacles they have to climb, but the amount of love you have for D the time and attention you give to him and the amount you so obviously care will see him through anything, You're doing an amazing job and having that love there is, I keep saying this, half the battle. When you get older you start to forget the rest of the family weirdness and each of the little struggles that were so painful at the time, they don't go away but they don't stay an issue, the only thing that sticks is the love. Well thats true for me anyway and I'm betting it's true for a lot of other people too.
So whatever you decide to do, you're doing everything you can and everything right and he is going to be just fine, it's impossible not to be with a mom as kick ass as you obviously are behind him.
Good luck and big love to you and to D. Keep doing what you're doing x
 I joined the cult of Tape/ Because you can't rewind CD with a biro |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2005 : 08:51:44
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A class I give there's one kid who gets picked on (mostly jibes about his haircut) because he's a year below the rest, thing is the others don't insult him because they don't like him (everybody likes him) but only because they know they'll get a reaction.
--
"Here love," brakes on a high squeak, "itīs not backstage at the old Windmill or something, you know." |
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The Holiday Son
= Quote Accumulator =
France
2010 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2005 : 08:56:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Newo
thing is the others don't insult him because they don't like him (everybody likes him) but only because they know they'll get a reaction.
I agree. I think you should tell him to ignore them. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2005 : 09:15:16
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I don't know what advice I can give that will top the collective
wisdom expressed here. I especially like the suggestions
people made about more guy-to-guy stuff (can your husband
help D with his guitar?). Hooking D up with a Big Brother
sounds promising. I also imagine that being a big bro to Jonas
in a few months will do a world of good to D.
You should change the name if this thread to "The Wonderful Kid"
because that's how your son sounds. He's a gem and it's to your
credit, Carolyn. What a wonderful man you are raising! Qualities
such as empathy are not valued in our society, especially in males.
Lastly, Carolyn, yours is a special pain, a mom/parent ache. Have faith that the love you've been pouring into him since you had him in your belly will win out.
Now, can I come over and smack those kids around?
 I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
Edited by - kathryn on 05/22/2005 18:26:30 |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2005 : 11:23:29
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I'm conflicted about this because during the "Bitches" thread my initial reaction was where were the parents when people on this list were being tormented at school. But, here I think that you might cause more trouble if you get to mixed up in the problem.
As has been said before, kids will make fun of each other even though they're friends. I don't know if it's just with guys, but it's a common type of friendship for guys to tease each other and your son needs to learn the rules of the game. My longest friendship is with a pair of guys and when together we revisit the old jokes and teases about each other. It's male bonding. Maybe that's a job for an older sibling, an uncle, or someone (but I have no memory of anyone teaching me). I think he needs to know two things:
1) when they tease him he can't let it get to him. If he withers when they tease him, he's going to be an easy target. Part of that is knowing that they are still his friends (hopefully this is the case). It's a game, but it's a game that can go too far or even ceases being a game.
2) the best defense is a good offense. You don't want to be teased, so you need to either lay low so they don't go after you, or when you're teased you need to switch the focus to someone else. This sounds terrible. But, someone isn't going to tease you too much if they know you're going to respond. They don't want to be teased. Maybe floop and LBF can teach him some mama jokes.
Is he too old for "playdates"? Can you take him and some of friends somewhere so that you can spy on the interactions. Do they still treat him like a friend or are they turning on him? |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2005 : 17:31:21
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin
Maybe floop and LBF can teach him some mama jokes.
a well-timed mom joke can have devastating effects. you should teach your son son some good mom jokes Carolyana...
"that's what your mom said" is a good one to start with. it works in many situations, and even if it doesn't make sense, it's still vaguly insulting.
i recommend starting there, for a beginner..
when he's ready, i can move him on to some more advanced stuff |
Edited by - floop on 05/22/2005 17:34:07 |
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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2005 : 18:58:34
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
i can move him on to some more juicy advanced stuff
that's what your mom said
... I hate shit that is true |
Edited by - Little Black Francis on 05/22/2005 18:59:12 |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2005 : 19:17:52
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i totally agree with the Big Brother idea - my cousin Ian stepped into that role for me when i was an awkward 9 year old, and he's still there now that i'm an awkward soon to be 23 year old. having someone older treat you like you are cool can make SUCH a world of difference.
other than that, i would say to just be as supportive as you appear to have been up to this point. i know everyone says this, but D sounds like a great person and i really feel for the both of you. you're an inspiration to those of us who eventually want to have kids but right now don't for whatever reason.
-Brian
If you move I shoots!
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2005 : 21:29:27
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quote:
Qualities such as empathy are not valued in our society, especially in males.
Well, there is a Nobel Peace Prize. Maybe D will win that someday. Encourage your son, Carolyn. |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 08:07:18
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These types of stories are heartbreakers. I dont think its gotten any worse over the years, but, I think that parents eyes have been opened about the effects. More empathy in general, a good thing.
I didn't see mentioned that you should ask him if he wants to lose some weight. Don't change any other messaging, ignore the kids, they have the problem, you are fine how you are, etc.. But, the hardest part for a kid in this type of situation is feeling helpless and powerless. If you set a modest goal for him and showed him how he can drive some change, he may feel empowered and under control.
The key is it has to be a choice for him. If he thinks you are dictating you will be on the side of those who think he is fat. If he said he didnt want to or if he ignored you, it would be 6 months at least before I would bring it up again. Its a difficult line to navigate (no way can a parent come across as validating the bullies attacks), but, it sounds like there is a good base of trust between you.
I just think its huge that when a kid is challenged like this, and feels ostracized, that when they are alone they can envision some way out of the predicament in the future.
I've got 3 kids, all 6 or under, so, I am no expert at all. I just tried to put your shoes on for a minute and walk around and think what I would do. So, apply salt liberally... |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 09:19:01
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IMHO the real problem is your boy's lack of self-esteem, not the number of pounds he should / would like to lose. I'm far from being an expert (I'm actually skinny, and so is my son :) but I tend to think that being overweight is more a symptom than a cause of self-disdain.
Sometimes you're the windshield / Sometimes you're the bug |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 09:28:06
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I agree with what Darwin says. I wouldn't speak to their parents or any teachers unless it gets worse (which I don't think it will if he can learn to just shrug it off and perhaps even make the odd comment back). As Darwin says, this is how it works at school with boys. My frends used to make jibes about my weight at school but I just ignored them and made jibes back if I could. They were genuinely my friends, they just find this kind of thing funny. Kids tend to say what they see, and weight is something that society tells them matters (which in terms of health does but not in terms of the person inside).
It does sound as though your husband could do with a little more one on one time with D though. He is the kid's one father figure, the only man he can look up to and teach him how to deal with life. I must admit that I actually look forward to the day I can pass things onto a son. I hope I am that lucky one day, and hope that your husband reaslises how lucky he is too.
Anyway, keep up your love, care and attention. D is lucky to have that for now.
I guess floop WAS right!
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mosleyk
= Cult of Ray =
USA
607 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 09:40:14
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First off, I think your son sounds like a son any parent would be proud to have. You are a great mother! You listen and the fact you are aware this is all going on...will save him from much unnecessary pain.
I would have to agree that the pounds are a self-esteem issue. I went through a chubby phase in school and I went through a too skinny phase. None of it had anything to do with food. Looking back it was totally a warped perception of myself and lack of confidence (much of which re-enforced by the meanness of my peers).
Reading your posts I started to ask myself what would have helped me through those times. I really like the suggestion of a big brother. I know I would have benefited from a program like that. |
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Fartbone
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 09:42:41
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Sometimes regardless if you think it's right or not, one has to take care of business on his own.
Horale Putos |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 09:49:42
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Wow, as LBF said in another thread fb.net rules!
Thanks to everyone who said good things about my parenting.
Sometimes parenting involves guilt (hehe) or at least the thought that you could be doing more as a parent.
I can't tell you how wonderful it is to hear comments such as those.
Also, you can probably tell from my post that I felt a little frantic or not in control. Reading these comments made me feel empowered.
Everything turned out extremely well too. This is what I did;
(after reading all your posts and feeling much better.)
Diego was supposed to see Star Wars with one of these kids yesterday although I know he could hardly wait til yesterday. While they were supposed to see it this kid's little sister was coming over to play with my daughter as their parents needed some time because they are landscaping. We know their parents fairly well. I asked Mike to take D on Saturday night, just him and D, and he did. When the dad called me on Sunday to set up the logistics I said "you know D and Mike went last night" and explained that D needed some cheering up because he came home really upset. Finding the right words are tricky but I said the boys teased him a bit about his weight. The dad was very sympathetic and they came and dropped off the daughter. I was nervous because I didn't want D to be the narc. But when they came back, the kid stayed over for a bit and actually apologized and said something like yeah I shouldn't do that to a real friend. Then, even better, later in the evening both kids that said it came over and asked to D go bike riding. The other kid that I didn't even narc on also apologized, I'm sure the first kid told him that they really hurt D's feelings. The first kid I really like, he's always been great with D. If something is difficult in school for D he'll always help him and explain the concept, he looks out for him. D came in and told me about what happened and asked to go biking. He was elated.
Meanwhile I had my brother over for dinner. (It was prolly key to have my bro over too because that makes the issue really about D and if I didn't I could see my husband getting a bit defensive, talking about parenting is a touchy issue...) My bro has always been close to D. I explained to him and Mike about how important I feel it is for D to have some one on one time with them and they totally agreed. Mike said now that I am not working he can make a greater effort at it. We do alot of family things but not enough things one on one with D. I said it doesn't have to be a big outing all the time but things like if he's asked him to rake the lawn, do it together etc. Mike later told D that after his guitar lessons each week. he'd like to spend some time going over the lesson or really just jamming a bit. My bro told me he'll make a concious effort too.
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
Edited by - Carolynanna on 05/23/2005 10:00:13 |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 09:52:18
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 Oh let it linger |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 09:53:04
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Cool, great to see it turned out OK. I really hope Mike keeps his promise.
I guess floop WAS right!
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 09:54:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Frog in the Sand
I know it's easy to say, but I think you shouldn't worry too much. Children spontaneously tend to share their parents' worries, especially when they're the source of these worries, and this permeability itself is a direct, and often underestimated, threat to their self-esteem and confidence.
This is really interesting.
I never really thought of it this way when it comes to worrying about the child themselves. Maybe when it comes to other things like money matters or your work etc. But it makes alot of sense too, alot.
Wow, maybe some french people really are smart...
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 09:57:32
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Let's not go overboard C.
I guess floop WAS right!
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 09:59:32
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And thanks to everyone who said nice things about D.
He is different than alot of kids in some ways and I think that's great.
Glad to see I could get some of his personality through in writing.
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 10:03:07
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin
I'm conflicted about this because during the "Bitches" thread my initial reaction was where were the parents when people on this list were being tormented at school. But, here I think that you might cause more trouble if you get to mixed up in the problem.
This is what I hemmed and hawed over.
I tried to do it oh so carefully.
I told the dad that it was "the boys" as to not get him all defensive.
I made it look like less of a big deal than it was so he wouldn't go giving his kid shit so that the kid is pissed at D.
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 10:11:57
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Good job C. Give D a big  from S.
As serious as your life |
Edited by - Cheeseman1000 on 05/23/2005 12:52:39 |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 12:42:16
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roffle.
Oh let it linger |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2005 : 13:33:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
quote:
Originally posted by Frog in the Sand
I know it's easy to say, but I think you shouldn't worry too much. Children spontaneously tend to share their parents' worries, especially when they're the source of these worries, and this permeability itself is a direct, and often underestimated, threat to their self-esteem and confidence.
Wow, maybe some french people really are smart...
I'm an aberration of (French) nature.
Happy to 'help' you - not sure you really need it :)
See these little cars in the corner of your eye
Creeping lenses with antennas
Clouds are sliding fast these days
Baby robots are sunflowers turning round and round
All the reports they fax you'll never read
Unrolling a bill you'll never pay |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2005 : 09:15:23
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| Glad things are working out. Horrah!! :) |
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The Fat Kid
