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puredenizenofthecitizensb
- FB Fan -
Uzbekistan
150 Posts |
 Posted - 04/05/2005 : 08:28:17
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I listened to "Honeycomb" on the net and it might as well be FB & The C's. No studio tricks, no bells/whistles like we got from the first FB or Teenager. Don't get me wrong, it's all good - guitar is very sophisticated and elegant, musicians are obvious pros. Just wish there was more funky production. Needs Feldman or something.
Hey, I still plan on buying the CD and I'm willing to pay full suggested retail price, but...
Whatever happened to Pong?
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The Marsist
= Cult of Ray =
Ireland
730 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 10:31:32
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the way i see it your wrong.franks first 2 "polised" solo records were good but patchy (im excludin toty cause its awesome).but hes is CONSTANTLY brilliant with his later catholics stuff.
A day is really two days |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 10:45:42
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Orange ain't got no stinking patches!
Oh boy, it's Walk-Around Butt! |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 12:30:55
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quote:
Originally posted by speedy_m
Orange ain't got no stinking patches!
Nor Teenager.
 "Join the Cult of Dan Haggerty / And star in low budget mountain man films" |
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50 Pence
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
284 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 12:32:09
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OR YA MAMMAS
Blats |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 18:30:25
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I love all the recordings. But I really like the way frank has been recording. It's natural... it's real... it's authentic. What you see is what you get. Its beautiful. Plus I love being a fan of an artist that is real. These days ... it seems like a dying breed among all the Ashlee Simpsons of the world.
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 18:33:33
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| It's pretty incredible that so many instruments can be crammed in an so few tracks, and yet still sound nice and clean and vibrant. Good production! |
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OldManInaCoffeeCan
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1467 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 18:43:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Daisy Girl
I love all the recordings. But I really like the way frank has been recording. It's natural... it's real... it's authentic. What you see is what you get. Its beautiful. Plus I love being a fan of an artist that is real. These days ... it seems like a dying breed among all the Ashlee Simpsons of the world.
Well said, DaisyGirl, my feelings exactly!
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OldManInaCoffeeCan
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1467 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 18:56:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Carl
It's pretty incredible that so many instruments can be crammed in an so few tracks, and yet still sound nice and clean and vibrant. Good production!
Yeah, Carl, and in such a small room. I've read quotes by The Man or the interviewers talking about the challenge of positioning the players and the mics, to get like you said, that nice and clean and vibrant...Good Production! They have it down perfectly, practice makes perfect, and the FB&TheC's recordings are perfect! |
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puredenizenofthecitizensb
- FB Fan -
Uzbekistan
150 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2005 : 20:24:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Daisy Girl
I love all the recordings. But I really like the way frank has been recording. It's natural... it's real... it's authentic. What you see is what you get. Its beautiful. Plus I love being a fan of an artist that is real. These days ... it seems like a dying breed among all the Ashlee Simpsons of the world.
I think you're romanticizing the "natural, real, authentic" thing just a little bit. FB is just trying to save $$$. Studio time is expensive. He doesn't have the capital to noodle around in the studio like the Ashlee Simpsons of the world - as cruel and ironic as it seems!
You can tell yourself his low budget recordings are a matter of virtue, but he's probably just a little short on cash. Why tour with the Pixies without a new album? Cash, I tell ya!
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Edited by - puredenizenofthecitizensb on 04/06/2005 09:16:22 |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 04:38:45
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not sure, recording live can take a long time, lots of takes
that doesn't save you $$$
besides, no studio tricks on honeycomb?
in SSMVGD his voice is double tracked! That's one of the oldest studio tricks
 "I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
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spaceghost11
- FB Fan -
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 07:53:30
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| Agreed on the cash thing--and No, the recording aren't beautiful and natural, they're lazy and probably take 2's--"Well we got it guys, next song." Get back in the studio with the pixies and this new influx of money, I beg you Frank. quit wasting all of our time with demos. |
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puredenizenofthecitizensb
- FB Fan -
Uzbekistan
150 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 08:23:20
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
not sure, recording live can take a long time, lots of takes
that doesn't save you $$$
besides, no studio tricks on honeycomb?
in SSMVGD his voice is double tracked! That's one of the oldest studio tricks
Yep, recording live in studio takes a long time and it is expensive. But, it takes the least amount of time and is the cheapest way to record of all the options. It just happened to be the only way my band could afford to record a CD. And we recorded it for ourselves, not to sell to our fans (we had none).
And double tracking vocals is not the kind of "studio tricks" I'm referring to. You're pussyfooting on that subject.
(I Want FB to Record on an) Absract Plain!
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Edited by - puredenizenofthecitizensb on 04/06/2005 09:21:36 |
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Hatchetman
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
234 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 09:57:32
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I love what I've heard so far from Honeycomb in terms of recording, production etc. BUT I think the songs are generally weaker on Honeycomb compared to his last few albums. They seem to have straight forward chord progressions etc. compared to earlier work. I don't like 'Violet' or 'All Around the World' and even the latter half of 'My life in Storage' has me shaking my head and crying *sob* 'Frank damn you - why?' *sob* I can't fault the performance, production, sound, vibe etc. but the songs just don't stand out to me compared to the songs from SMYT. I fear the day when he releases an album where most of the songs are more in the style of 'Violet' and less in the style of 'Massif Centrale'
Edit: Spelling
Ade
As the air conditioner hummed.... |
Edited by - Hatchetman on 04/06/2005 09:59:33 |
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frank black conspiracy
~ Abstract Brain ~
1126 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 10:05:29
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I would still love to hear some catholics songs recorded the same way as TOTY and FB, purely for selfish reasons.
I understand why Frank chooses the two-track way, and believe it's only because of personal preference, rather than the money.
But it does have an effect on the overall sound.
i know Honeycomb has yet to be released, but i'm eagerly awaiting the next FB record
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 10:46:57
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quote:
Originally posted by spaceghost11
Agreed on the cash thing--and No, the recording aren't beautiful and natural, they're lazy and probably take 2's--"Well we got it guys, next song." Get back in the studio with the pixies and this new influx of money, I beg you Frank. quit wasting all of our time with demos.
burn!
"I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 10:54:30
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FB and The C's first record was a demo
but if you are calling things like DITS and SMYT a demo you're just plain wrong
really
I feel insulted because I think that albums should be recorded that way
I just listened to the Band, they recorded live too.
or 60's bands, Kinks, Beatles, they all started out recording live,
is there something wrong with You Really Got Me?
Studio is overrated, listen to GBV-Alien Lanes for crying out loud
nothing personal though
"I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
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puredenizenofthecitizensb
- FB Fan -
Uzbekistan
150 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 11:53:07
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Studio is not overrated in and of itself, but I'll admit some bands abuse the studio.
And I agree that GBV is overrated.
It's too bad that FB has all these great songs that are almost wasted being recorded open mic nite style. It's as if he were doing karaoke versions of his own songs. He's the king of karaoke.
...he struck up a chord and he took it away!
USED TO BE SIXTEEN LANES!!! |
Edited by - puredenizenofthecitizensb on 04/06/2005 13:07:48 |
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spaceghost11
- FB Fan -
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 13:39:48
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| Even the Beatles knew better than to keep recording live, in fact they got the hell out of that as fast as they could. Also, citing all of those old examples is misleading because THERE WAS NO OTHER WAY TO RECORD BACK THEN. The most tracks they could use was 4 and the fact that they were using magnetic tape made overdubbing not very fun as the quality loss is significant. I don't buy the romantic, "back to roots", 2 track live crap. It was due to money. Period. I'm as big of a fan of the Catholics recordings as anyone, but it was out of necessity. My point is: now that hes got a bunch of cash, cut the crap and give us some QUALITY, not QUANTITY. HC won't cut it! Give me a new Pixies CD! |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 16:30:19
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quote:
He doesn't have the capital to noodle around in the studio like the Ashlee Simpsons of the world - as cruel and ironic as it seems!
I doubt Ashlee does much studio noodling. She just sings really badly, and then producers use computer programs to make her sound slightly less crappy. We all know Frank can actually sing, and his band can actually play, so there isn't any need for that kind of studio doctoring.
I've never had a problem with Frank's live-to-two-track recordings. Perhaps audiophile types notice imperfections in those recordings that could be improved upon with more advanced recording and production techniques. It's largely a matter of personal preference, I guess.
"Reunion? Shit union!" |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 16:33:13
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| I read an article on Frank in a guitar mag which indicated that the first Catholics album is actually the original demo recorded for Epic records, which they of course rejected. The band liked it so much they wanted to release it as the 'finished' album. Which they did. |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 16:38:56
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Forgive them, Frank. They know not what they do.
quote:
Originally posted by spaceghost11
I'm as big of a fan of the Catholics recordings as anyone
What?
Frank needs to stop spending 50 cent on his records and instead get 50 CENT on his records. |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 17:25:19
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I agree to some extent that the production on many of Frank's albums isn't all that great, but I don't think it's a two-track issue so much as it's an issue of him needing a better producer. I like some of Ben Mumphrey's work, but it's not quite as polished as I would like for it to be; and I don't necessarily think EDF is the route to take. I did think Show Me Your Tears was a step in the right direction production-wise, and I 'll have to wait and hear Mr. Tiven's work on Honeycomb. But, all that being said, it just goes to show how great his music is, that I could not be a fan of the production and yet still love and listen to all of his albums .
ˇViva los Católicos! http://adrianfoster.dmusic.com/ |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 17:38:56
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| I know I'm a big fanboy and all, but I don't know what people are hearing when they say those records sound less than polished. They all sound very clean, professional, and "normal" to me. Not lo-fi, not slapped together, not recorded in someone's apartment. To my ears, the sound/production of any Catholics record isn't all that different from a Tom Petty record or a Chris Isaak record (just to name some professional trad guitar-rock guys). |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 18:08:56
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| Surfer Rosa has a great live, atmospheric, production. Anyone got any info as to how many tracks were used for that? |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2005 : 18:24:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason
I know I'm a big fanboy and all, but I don't know what people are hearing when they say those records sound less than polished. They all sound very clean, professional, and "normal" to me. Not lo-fi, not slapped together, not recorded in someone's apartment. To my ears, the sound/production of any Catholics record isn't all that different from a Tom Petty record or a Chris Isaak record (just to name some professional trad guitar-rock guys).
Personally, I did not mean "polished" in terms of fidelity of the sound, but more in terms of performance.
ˇViva los Católicos! http://adrianfoster.dmusic.com/ |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 03:08:33
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Yes, they couldn't do another type of recording in the 60's but that was not my point
my point is
if you listen to those records, say a Kinks song, do you really wish they recorded it on zillion tracks?
I do not, I love the live feel to it. It's not a proven fact, and it's no law either, but I think that live music is spontanious, more alive, with more feeling, I state that you have to be quite a good musician to nail those Catholics recordings without overdubbing.
Nope, I definately don't agree
"I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
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spaceghost11
- FB Fan -
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 04:55:30
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| Surfer Rosa was produced by Albini who is famous for that ambient, live sounding sound, however there are mutliple overdubs and such--as evidenced by the double and triple vocal tracks and mutliple guitar parts. See, I think Surfer Rosa sounds great and on the record they have all said that it only took like 2 weeks to record. Why can't Frank do that now? Maybe it is an issue of the producer being less than awesome... |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 10:07:20
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there are triple vocal tracks and mutliple guitar parts on SMYT too, but I get you point and I think you are right. Doesn't mean I'm not a sucker for Nick Vincent, I think he's incredible
"I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
Edited by - billgoodman on 04/07/2005 10:09:24 |
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puredenizenofthecitizensb
- FB Fan -
Uzbekistan
150 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 10:07:51
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Again, all the FB & the C's sounds marvelous, excellent and bitchin'. What I'm longing for is some effort in the doo-dads dept. Some layers, some art! Whatever happened to art?
Live is fine, it sounds good - especially when you're there. FB has taken this "live" thing too far. It's getting old. We get it already. You and your band are #@%&* amazing without trying. Let's put some spice back into our marriage.
I was really hoping FB would do something that would freak my $#it since he wasn't w/ the Catholics, but I was a little disappointed to hear that its more of the same (Catholics).
I'm not necessarily saying he needs to get Eric Drew Feldman back, but he needs to get more creative because he's dangerously close to becoming James Taylor.
SOME GIBBERISH IT IS SO SERIOUS
WHAT WE NEED IS MORE SILLY MEN |
Edited by - puredenizenofthecitizensb on 04/07/2005 10:12:55 |
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spaceghost11
- FB Fan -
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 10:41:05
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| Well put---he's coming dangerously close to Adult Contemporary. Where is the fire? He's getting lazy, guys. |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 11:25:29
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Oh this debate is getting as old as the bible itself. Some prefer the studio. Some prefer the 2-track. You say tomato, I say tomato. You say potato, Quayle says potatoe. Does anyone remember that old American TV commercial for the alcoholics hospital Rader Institute where the chick screams, "DON'T TAKE THE CAR, YOU'LL KILL YOURSELF!"?
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 11:38:21
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| I am waiting for the 32-track Frank Black album that will be two full years in the making (at minimum). It will feature studio musicians on hire from Muzak and an audio architecture second to none. Phil Spector will produce it, although his trip from the parking lot to the studio will pass via a metal detector. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 13:09:05
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hey puredenizen, at least you put it well
but spaceghost, do you really think Frank is lazy?
HE CARIED HIS OWN AMP AND DROVE THE VAN FOR LIKE 5 YEARS WITH THE CATHOLICS
now with the pixies he tours a whole year around the whole world (okay he's got somebody to carry the amps), he's not lazy!
"I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 15:36:54
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quote:
Originally posted by BLT
I am waiting for the 32-track Frank Black album that will be two full years in the making (at minimum). It will feature studio musicians on hire from Muzak and an audio architecture second to none. Phil Spector will produce it, although his trip from the parking lot to the studio will pass via a metal detector.
Now there's an idea!
ˇViva los Católicos! http://adrianfoster.dmusic.com/ |
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spaceghost11
- FB Fan -
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2005 : 15:54:24
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| When he doesnt live up to the high standard he set for himself we are left with 2 options: either he can't write good songs anymore, which is obviously not true, or he's choosing to not write good songs or spend time in the studio getting a good sound, which i would contend equates with laziness. How can we not expect him to live up to his previous standard of perfect studio albums (all pixies, first 2 FB solo) and well written songs (everything before HC)? And the double tracked guitar and vocals on SMYT you speak of billgoodman are not, by definition double tracked. Double tracked means overdubbed--ala vocals in Where is my Mind and guitars in Vamos--and the only "double tracking" in SMYT is the band singing backup or playing guitar at the same time. To be able to correctly debate about studio procedure, one has to be familiar with it, and I dont think that you are billgoodman, not to be contentious. |
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Topic |
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These low budget FB recordings are getting old
