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SHAZEB ANDLEEB
- FB Fan -
Saint Kitts and Nevis
145 Posts |
 Posted - 01/24/2005 : 18:02:11
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OK, I am looking through the new Rolling Stone record guide. They rate hundreds of albums and give a quick little synopsis and star ranking. Well, I am looking at Frank Black and I got pissed off. When it came to "Cult of Ray", RS calls it a disasterous failure that was was so bad, it is no longer in print. WTF! I love "Cult of Ray"! Great album, great instrumentals and crazy lyrics. Man, I am getting so sick of hearing people dog this album. Even on Amazon.com, the so-called Frank Black fans are dogging it. Can someone please tell me, what is wrong with this album? And why the other first two releases are so much better? I mean, I love the first two solo albums, love them! But I also love Ray. Help me out here.
BLUE! EXTRAORDINARY BLUE! |
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frank black conspiracy
~ Abstract Brain ~
1126 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 18:51:41
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I'm with you. But:
a) Rolling Stones. Come on. what do they know?
b) Amazon. Those so called fans want Doolittle 2. They can shove their copies of Cult up their arses.
I'm sure Frank wouldn't mind. He cashed his cheque and moved on ages ago.
I've heard it been called underrated, the weaker one, not one of his best. Have they heard it?
Bet they miss the Catholics too. |
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Thomas
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1615 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 19:44:55
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quote:
Originally posted by SHAZEB ANDLEEB
Can someone please tell me, what is wrong with this album?
First it came after the superior TOTY.
Second it came before the superior Self Titled FB & the Catholics.
That is why it is a so-so album, it is surrounded by greatness.
"Our Love is Rice and Beans and Horses Lard" |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 01:21:21
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I would consider being dissed by Rolling Stone as a sign of quality, actually.
Denis
"I believe in your perfect face..." |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 01:23:30
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Oh, and Cult Of Ray isn't out of print. It's sold on the Cooking Vinyl shop for £9.49.
Denis
"I believe in your perfect face..." |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2463 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 01:54:56
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| After I bought it I wondered how I managed without! Very good album. |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 02:46:23
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Story of my life: back in January '96 we spent a month in England for some student exchange thing, and my friend bought there the Cult Of Ray. I was just beginning to discover the wonders of Frank at the time. Coming back from the UK we went skiing in the Alps my friend and I, I spent a week learning skiing and every morning we would wake up with The Marsist blasting through the flat and then we'd spend the whole day on the slopes yelling Men In Black. Now in 4 days I'll be back in the station where this happened and we'll pay a week-long hommage to this gemm of an album. I can't wait.
Denis
"I believe in your perfect face..." |
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langdonboom
= Cult of Ray =
USA
260 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 06:37:19
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I may even agree that this is Frank's "worst" album, but as said above its only in relation to his other heights of greatness.
Still, this Cult of Ray album is one of his that got stuck in my head the fastest, like after two listens it was in my genes.
Shazeb Andleeb and Cult of Ray are two of Frank's outstanding compositions, in my opinion!
Alienation confers freedom. Obscurity will keep you pure. Pray that you won’t be discovered young, so that you won’t be tempted to sell out early, or won’t be seduced by celebrity.
--THE PATH OF THE ARTIST |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2005 : 11:57:41
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It's been said already but it's Rolling Stone, what do you expect?
I picked up that issue at my best friend's house, expecting to get
pissed off about what it contained (if anything) in relation to
Frank and, indeed, I got pissed off.
Denis, I wanna go ski with you. I dig the "blast Frank and ski
all day" thing, man!
 I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank |
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Triakel
- FB Fan -
119 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 07:21:01
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I remember back in 1993, RS gave "Frank Black" three stars. It later on its Web site revised the rating to four without explanation and (I believe) with a different review.
This reunion tour has raised Frank's stock a bit, and I wouldn't be surprised if "Cult" gets better treatment once the staff senses the wind has changed, or becomes convinced that enough fans consider all of his older work to be in special category (the pantheon in which vintage Iggy, Bowie, Neil Young, et al. dwells).
If not, f--- 'em. RS is a fickle, commercial mag the critical laurels of which seem to trail consistently two steps behind a payday.
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 19:27:53
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| How can they knock Cult of Ray??? Is ANYTHING sacred any more??? Please! |
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frank black conspiracy
~ Abstract Brain ~
1126 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 03:39:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Triakel
If not, f--- 'em. RS is a fickle, commercial mag the critical laurels of which seem to trail consistently two steps behind a payday.
Exactly.
Who here gives a f--- what Rolling Stone thinks?
We don't need some magazine nod to say the music we listen to is good. especially this one about this album.
And any new fb fan isn't gonna fully be turned on by a damn review. You can never understand this music unless you hear it for yourself, again and again. And who the hell wants a fan who is inspired to buy your record because of their favourite magazines say so. Don't they have an opinion of their own?
don't forget some critics don't rate Trompe or Bossanova. I love 'em both.
so who's in the wrong? me? Who cares. |
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Atheist4Catholics
= Cult of Ray =
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 07:00:36
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There are a few good songs on it, but the overall it's mediocre. The production is bad, there are tons of filler tracks, it contains some of Frank's weakest vocal performances and unless you're a "Frank can do no wrong" type of fan you'll probably rate this as one of his worst releases.
I think this record seriously set Frank back career wise. Because TOTY was so good, Frank was getting tons of hype and press for CoR, but it was a big let down to most people. Soon after Frank reinvented himself and began his Catholics Live-to-2 stint.
Will I ever reach 1000?
For more information on rock, visit www.timfranklin.net |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 07:15:23
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quote:
don't forget some critics don't rate Trompe or Bossanova.
Oh, they rate them, all right. They just rate them poorly.
"Reunion? Shit union!" |
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n/a
deleted
4109 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 07:40:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Daisy Girl
How can they knock Cult of Ray??? Is ANYTHING sacred any more??? Please!
Daisy, forgive them, they don't know what they're saying...
So this is for when you're feeling happy again
And this is for when you're feeling sad
And this is for when you feel...
Something
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frank black conspiracy
~ Abstract Brain ~
1126 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 09:11:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Atheist4Catholics
There are a few good songs on it, but the overall it's mediocre. The production is bad, there are tons of filler tracks, it contains some of Frank's weakest vocal performances and unless you're a "Frank can do no wrong" type of fan you'll probably rate this as one of his worst releases.
But it's worth listening to just to hear 'Men In Black', 'Kicked In The Taco' and 'The Adventure And The Resolution' just to name a few.
Some of the catholics live recordings I find weak. You can hear crowd conversations over the songs, that's if you haven't fallen asleep or skipped the track. Now that's weak. |
Edited by - frank black conspiracy on 02/11/2005 10:21:09 |
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langdonboom
= Cult of Ray =
USA
260 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 09:28:25
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quote:
You can hear crowd conversations over the songs
really? Which tracks? Its been a while since I listened to any of it on good headphones.
Alienation confers freedom. Obscurity will keep you pure. Pray that you won’t be discovered young, so that you won’t be tempted to sell out early, or won’t be seduced by celebrity.
--THE PATH OF THE ARTIST |
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frank black conspiracy
~ Abstract Brain ~
1126 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 10:18:45
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langdon, i referred to bootleg concerts. This probably explains why all the talking, but still, they're not exactly listening.
Songs I remeber from the top of my head are 'I've seen your picture' and 'The swimmer', they just seemed to drag on a while.
Slid-guitared to bed. |
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FrankfanL
- FB Fan -
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 11:16:22
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[quote]Originally posted by vilainde
I would consider being dissed by Rolling Stone as a sign of quality, actually.
Good one, Vilainde !! I agree. |
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stymie
= Cult of Ray =
385 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 13:22:31
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| Frank told me at a concert on 04/13/96 that if i didn't quit show him my hat that he was gonna kick me in the taco and very well could have beinghe was two feet in front of me on a stage at wall a foot high. Instead he played the song. It was a TMBG hat and I knew he was a fan plus I was F**King trashed. Glad I got a recording of it after the show. They open with a version of mosh, don't pass the guy with lyrics! |
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sleepingbehemoth
- FB Fan -
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 14:20:06
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quote:
Originally posted by SHAZEB ANDLEEB
OK, I am looking through the new Rolling Stone record guide. They rate hundreds of albums and give a quick little synopsis and star ranking. Well, I am looking at Frank Black and I got pissed off. When it came to "Cult of Ray", RS calls it a disasterous failure that was was so bad, it is no longer in print. WTF! I love "Cult of Ray"! Great album, great instrumentals and crazy lyrics. Man, I am getting so sick of hearing people dog this album. Even on Amazon.com, the so-called Frank Black fans are dogging it. Can someone please tell me, what is wrong with this album? And why the other first two releases are so much better? I mean, I love the first two solo albums, love them! But I also love Ray. Help me out here.
BLUE! EXTRAORDINARY BLUE!
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sleepingbehemoth
- FB Fan -
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 14:29:58
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I can totally appreciate your thoughts. Cult was brilliant and its own totally separate soundscape. As with any Frank masterpiece
those not in the know just dont get it. I mean that reviewer probably gives anything considered " rap/rock " rave reviews.
and besides that, I would never look at a rolling stone for anything other than maybe say,,,,toilet paper.
they are all about pushing rap, soul and thats about it. they have sucked for quite many years now. beside's frank is a song writing machine and has easily surpassed any one writer in history
so I say due to his prolific track record
frank black : Song writer of the last as well as this decade.
roll on frank. roll on |
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sleepingbehemoth
- FB Fan -
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 14:31:37
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I can totally appreciate your thoughts. Cult was brilliant and its own totally separate soundscape. As with any Frank masterpiece
those not in the know just dont get it. I mean that reviewer probably gives anything considered " rap/rock " rave reviews.
and besides that, I would never look at a rolling stone for anything other than maybe say,,,,toilet paper.
they are all about pushing rap, soul and thats about it. they have sucked for quite many years now. beside's frank is a song writing machine and has easily surpassed any one writer in history
so I say due to his prolific track record
frank black : Song writer of the last as well as this decade.
roll on frank. roll on |
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frank black conspiracy
~ Abstract Brain ~
1126 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2005 : 09:46:37
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quote:
Originally posted by sleepingbehemoth
frank black : Song writer of the last as well as this decade.
roll on frank. roll on
yes! yes! yes!
a boy/girl after my own heart.
He is the king. Kiss the ring
In time we'll be proven right.
Stymie, i'd love to hear a version of Mosh! with lyrics.
Do you think it's better for having them compared to the Cult version? |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2463 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2005 : 14:17:34
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I'd like to hear that too.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2005 : 05:38:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Atheist4Catholics
There are a few good songs on it, but the overall it's mediocre. The production is bad, there are tons of filler tracks, it contains some of Frank's weakest vocal performances and unless you're a "Frank can do no wrong" type of fan you'll probably rate this as one of his worst releases.
I think this record seriously set Frank back career wise. Because TOTY was so good, Frank was getting tons of hype and press for CoR, but it was a big let down to most people. Soon after Frank reinvented himself and began his Catholics Live-to-2 stint.
Will I ever reach 1000?
For more information on rock, visit www.timfranklin.net
that's just what I think
 "I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2005 : 12:59:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Atheist4Catholics
There are a few good songs on it, but the overall it's mediocre. The production is bad, there are tons of filler tracks, it contains some of Frank's weakest vocal performances and unless you're a "Frank can do no wrong" type of fan you'll probably rate this as one of his worst releases.
I think this record seriously set Frank back career wise. Because TOTY was so good, Frank was getting tons of hype and press for CoR, but it was a big let down to most people. Soon after Frank reinvented himself and began his Catholics Live-to-2 stint.
Will I ever reach 1000?
For more information on rock, visit www.timfranklin.net
I can see where you are coming from, although I must say I humbly disagree.
The reason being, I think the bar Frank sets for his own work is so high. That sometimes some of the songs on Cult of Frank might not be considered as high when compared to his other work.
But I think even when you compare some of those songs to what is out there today, it still holds its own and are amazing when compared to other stuff out there. Even his "weakest" preformance is fab compared to other musicians/preformers. |
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Jem A
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 10:03:55
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cult of ray is rock at its purest and finest. The three things i look for in music are that
a) its original
b) its uplifting
c) its 'cool' (this sounds rather facile but i couldn't put it any other way)
and cult of ray has this in abundance from energy inducing instrumental sections to the sheer beauty of music such as 'The last stand...' when i listened to this it became one of my all time faves, and although TOTY and FB: self titled may be even better, thats not taking anything away from this.
the one thing in the world you cannot trust are music reviews as music itself is such a subjective thing.
I'd say cult or ray is has much much more variety and consistancy than Pixies' Bossanova and Trompe Le Monde. Frank Black's truly solo 3 albums are almost equal, and 3 of the best and most crimanally underated ever.
an expert is he who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everyting about nothing |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 16:01:52
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quote:
the one thing in the world you cannot trust are music reviews
Also politicians.
"Reunion? Shit union!" |
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SHAZEB ANDLEEB
- FB Fan -
Saint Kitts and Nevis
145 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2005 : 16:36:21
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I guess I should add that the same Rolling Stone guide had Christina Aguelera getting like five stars on her albums. You know, the credibility thing.
hermaphroditos is my name
worship me |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2005 : 16:52:45
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I am still seething about this. But again, it's RS. Who cares?
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
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cultofsucktitude
- FB Fan -
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 17:52:02
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Well, I read an article slamming Black's later albums because they didn't sound like 'Cult of Ray' .. so it's all pretty subjective. This is the magazine that tore apart Amiee Mann's last album yet praised Timberlake's solo effort as one of the finest albums ...EVER!
I like toast |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 17:56:48
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My point exactly.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
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cultofsucktitude
- FB Fan -
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 15:07:27
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Yup, pretty much!
Now that I think about it, RS wasn't too harsh on Mann but they did label the 'Lost in Space' cd 'for fans ONLY' -I'd put her worst work up against anyone's best work.
Hey, 'Crawling Creature' is one of my fave Black songs. I think 'cult' is great! I did check out the Amazon site ... I just don't know what to say.
I like toast |
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Mad Lucas
- FB Fan -
Australia
144 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2005 : 04:24:52
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Weak? compared to what? There isn't one FB album which is remotely similar to another. The fact he can write basic rock like COR and complex country in BLD is enough. Just lay back and soak the love.
The Organic Anti-Beat Box Boy |
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Crispy Water
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
819 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2005 : 16:03:18
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quote:
Originally posted by frank black conspiracy
Stymie, i'd love to hear a version of Mosh! with lyrics.
Do you think it's better for having them compared to the Cult version?
I've heard a couple where they're yelling the title syllables sort of in time with the "chorus" bursts - it sounds pretty cool I guess, but I could live without it too. I like the song either way.
Nothing is ever something. |
Edited by - Crispy Water on 03/11/2005 16:04:07 |
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Topic |
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Rolling Stone and "Cult of Ray"
