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ElevatorLady
= Cult of Ray =
385 Posts |
 Posted - 02/10/2005 : 05:52:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason
I don't think Frank's a genius. I'm not sure if I'd call anyone a genius for making rock/pop music.
To me, genius is "invented the light bulb" or "created modern physics" or "can solve insanely complicated math equations in their head in only 8 seconds". To me, genius isn't "wrote 'Debaser'".
Well Mozart is widely considered a genius, and he wrote a lot of what in his times was considered popular music.
I don't know if Frank Black is a genius, but I don't agree that if you invent things you can be called a genius and if you write music you can not. I think any kind of idea can be genial.
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 06:30:00
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Genius: instinctive and extraordinary imaginative, creative or inventive capacity.
I'd say Frank has that.
Love, love, my season |
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geertos
- FB Fan -
Belgium
158 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 07:45:48
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I believe it was Einstein who once said: Genius is 1 % inspiration and 99 % transpiration.
Now where does that leave Frank? |
Edited by - geertos on 02/10/2005 07:49:26 |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 09:15:15
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What did he know?
Love, love, my season |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 09:33:24
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I think genius and music can go together, but I think genius and good rock music don't go together most of the time. Like Yngwie Malmsteen is likely a guitar genius, but I don't think he makes good rock music.
To me, genius music would be music that is not only good, but also is completely beyond most other talented musicians of the time (and maybe later) when they try to play it or get their head around it. Maybe Captain Beefheart is a rock guy who might qualify for this. If your music doesn't totally bewilder other great musicians, then, in opinion, you're just talented.
One of my all-time favorites quotes about good pop/rock music comes from Frank in an interview a few months ago (http://www.suntimes.com/output/derogatis/sho-sunday-pixies07.html) where he explains the Pixies appeal by saying the Pixies "rang the bells" ("ringing the bells" I interpret as meaning creating a great pop moment) and he goes on to say "Musical geniuses ring the bells, and people that are complete idiots ring the bells". I love that quote, I think it couldn't be more true, and it articulates a big part of why I'm so hooked on rock music. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 10:03:35
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quote:
Originally posted by frank black conspiracy
Wonder if this was Floops input:
"What's the first thing you do if you've gone solo, and want to make it as hard as possible for yourself to cash on on the reputation of the very successful band you've just broken up with a fax and a radio interview? If your charles Thompson, and seemingly have a compulsion for shooting yourself in the foot, you start calling yourself by a name your fans don't know. You mothball Black francis, that is, and adapt Frank black, a name better suited to the square-jawed fellow who supervises a crew of Latinos who remove asbestos from people's attics, belongs to two bowling leagues, and every night after work has a shot and a beer chaser."
Doubt it.
Maybe this...
"Frank Black & The Catholics, hereinafter The Orange Album...as fans would come to call it..."
Now i'm a little confused again.
Isn't self-titled FB the orange one and FB&TCs the yellow one? anyone?
I always went by the colour of the disc and/or front cover.
i gave john a tape of a Frank Black interview i recorded, to help him out. that was my only contribution. i still haven't read the book. but i still stand by my opinion that john seems like a cool person himeslf. reserving judgements on the book..
i am saddened that he chose to use the incorrect "orange album" to describe the first FB solo. it's not the first this mistake has been made though..
ps. i don't know what you're getting at suggesting that (above) that was my input.. i only belong to one bowling league
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
Edited by - floop on 02/10/2005 10:06:00 |
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frank black conspiracy
~ Abstract Brain ~
1126 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 10:16:54
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Hey floop, that post you've replied too, i hope you realise it was in jest.
I realise I don't know you enough to play around with words, as they can so easliy be misconstrued.
but having read some of the banter here i was hoping you and everyone would realise the fun intended.
Never at anybody's expense, especially yours.
Apologies for behaving too familiar.
Your input is probably the only fact and truth in the book.
He does seem cool. But his book sucked some (as an fb fan). |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 11:56:27
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yeah, i was just kiddin'. i'm still not sure what you meant though, but i'm kind of slow sometimes..
i'm not in a bowling league by the way, but i wish i was.
judging by the quotes you've posted, i'm not sure how i'll feel about the book either, to be honest. i'm kind of scared to read it.
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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frank black conspiracy
~ Abstract Brain ~
1126 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 12:13:30
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Oh no, it's far from scary. More a comedy. A book about Frank Black (at last!) that does nothing but knock Frank Black.
It definately isn't a book for the fan, so why it's existance? Probably same reason for the Pixies tour. Now that's funny.
But if by any means you can get a copy and read, you'll enjoy and maybe find a few quotes you may have missed.
What i meant was just a carry on from hpm's comments about you wondering if you're in the book.
I obviously didn't know your input or contribution, so I just randomly picked two quotes I knew you would never say or believe.
the joke got lost somewhere across the pond and in translation.
Which I apology again for if you took offence. |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 16:24:28
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quote:
I believe it was Einstein who once said: Genius is 1 % inspiration and 99 % transpiration.
I remember hearing that it was Edison instead of Einstein, and "perspiration" instead of "transpiration." But these quotes get misattributed so much that it's often hard to tell who actually said something in the first place.
I think someone can be a genius without really doing any work. There isn't always a connection, and it's kind of unfair, because some people can be naturally good at something while others struggle to be mediocre at it.
"Reunion? Shit union!" |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 16:39:03
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fbc, no offense at all. no worries mate.
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 19:27:36
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
quote:
I believe it was Einstein who once said: Genius is 1 % inspiration and 99 % transpiration.
I remember hearing that it was Edison instead of Einstein, and "perspiration" instead of "transpiration." But these quotes get misattributed so much that it's often hard to tell who actually said something in the first place.
I think someone can be a genius without really doing any work. There isn't always a connection, and it's kind of unfair, because some people can be naturally good at something while others struggle to be mediocre at it.
"Reunion? Shit union!"
If a genius does know work, who would ever know they're a genius? And what have they done with their gifts?
Seems that such a person would be kind of stupid not to work at their gift and that would disqualify them from being a genius in the first place to me.
 "Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 19:50:57
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What if stuff just comes to you, and you write it down? That's not that much work, but people would still be aware of your genius, right?
"Reunion? Shit union!" |
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geertos
- FB Fan -
Belgium
158 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 00:30:59
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
quote:
I believe it was Einstein who once said: Genius is 1 % inspiration and 99 % transpiration.
I remember hearing that it was Edison instead of Einstein, and "perspiration" instead of "transpiration."
I stand corrected. But at least I got the percentages right.
Anyway, I remember a quote from FB, back in 1990 or 91: "I'm not a genius but maybe I am". |
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Manny
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
252 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 12:23:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason
If your music doesn't totally bewilder other great musicians, then, in opinion, you're just talented.
Check the interviews on the Gouge Documentary with David Bowie, Bono, PJ Harvey, Thom Yorke, and a dozen others musicians. I think you'll change your mind on that point.
You seem to have a very limited conception of genius. People tend to call genius any creative or prolific individual whose work is the origin of something new.
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Manny
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
252 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 12:28:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason
I think genius and good rock music don't go together most of the time.
That presupposes some kind of genre hierarchy, or distinction between high/low art, which by now we all know is bogus !  |
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Manny
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
252 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 13:14:45
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quote:
Originally posted by audiochild
I can only say, there is no way The Pixies were the band that made Nirvana. I think this myth has been around too long. Stooges, Mudhoney, Buzzcocks, Leadbelly... the list goes on. Sure Kurt might have used the , yes, here we go again, soft verse loud chorus forumula, but in all due respect there are many differences in their music.
One major differences is The Pixies were all creative professionals, Nirvana was Kurt. The Pixies is much richer and more textured. However, there really should be no comparison, should there? i think it's all been taken way out of perspective.
think about it a bit guys
You been NASHED!
Definitely agree with you about this. Pixies were just one element in the equation.
One Nirvana song that does seem to remind me of the Pixies though is Stay Away from Nevermind. The chorus and dynamics of the song remind me a lot of Tame. There's some monkey lyrics in there too.
Can I ask you what NASHED means? Is it an inside joke with your friends? |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 13:54:28
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i think the fact that Stay Away has the word "monkey" in it might be a stretch. but the song does have a somewhat Pixies feel to it (like much of his stuff)
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2005 : 10:41:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Manny
quote:
Originally posted by Jason
If your music doesn't totally bewilder other great musicians, then, in opinion, you're just talented.
Check the interviews on the Gouge Documentary with David Bowie, Bono, PJ Harvey, Thom Yorke, and a dozen others musicians. I think you'll change your mind on that point.
You seem to have a very limited conception of genius. People tend to call genius any creative or prolific individual whose work is the origin of something new.
I've seen the DVD. Personally I don't get the feeling that Bowie, Bono, etc. are "bewildered" by the Pixies music (bewildered, to me = they can't figure out how to play it without great effort/difficulty, can't figure out how it was made. stuff like that.) Also I don't consider Bono, Thom Yorke, PJ Harvey, or Tim Wheeler to be brilliant or interesting musicians (which counts, since we're considering them peers of Frank). Just my opinion here.
Also I think the concept of "genius" should be limited. Every fan board thinks their guy is a genius. Which is fine and there's nothing wrong with any of that -- even though I don't buy into it and try to keep my own "fan" biases in check while in conversation. The John Mayer board thinks John Mayer's a genius. The Tori Amos board thinks she's a genius. The Frank Black board thinks he's a genius.
And futhermore, as much as I love it, I don't think Frank's music has ever been the origin of something new. I think it's been a popularizing factor. I do prefer the Pixies to their antecedents like Husker Du, Wire, and X, but I don't completely discount them and say the Pixies invented the idea of well-written melodic arty aggressive rock songs from scratch. |
Edited by - Jason on 02/12/2005 10:45:18 |
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RustyPiss
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
24 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2005 : 10:56:41
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This Jason speaks sense!
"I don't think Frank's music has ever been the origin of something new"
Big Pixies fan (burnt the book) but Stooges did much more for grunge then the pixies, let alone television, wire, X and et al. They made a great collection of songs but genius... |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2005 : 13:22:49
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Maybe there are degrees of "genius"; someone could be more bewildering and incomprehensible to the majority than others.
For example, most people can never write an "I Want To Live on An Abstract Plain" or a "Places Named After Numbers". I don't know how Frank came up with such unusual methods of song structure. Most songs establish a solid chord progression for a verse, repeat that chord progression for a number of times, and then go on to a chorus or something. But in Frank's songs, the line is blurred between stereotypical "verses" and "choruses". There are no normal patterns within the verse. Frank's songs are all over the place. Firstly, I don't know HOW he got these ideas, and furthermore, the result is quite catchy and accesible; the weirdness does not hinder the quality of the song. Impressive.
But, to me, a much better example of true musical genius can be found in "Surf's Up" by Brian Wilson. The chords are very complex; I tried figuring it out once on the piano, and at no point was there ever a chord I could easily point out as a major or minor. And the bass often does its own thing, adding further to the complexity. The rhythm alone is complex enough, and the melody is certainly no walk in the park. And the structure* is far from simple. Yet, it does not come across the listener as math. Not only is it as catchy as anything else you'll ever hear, but it has a great deal of emotional reasonance. It can really give you goosebumps, provoke memories, and/or make you really FEEL something.
I'm just ranting. Sorry. I guess my point was that genius is a relative term.
 Join the Cult of Pi - It's just 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097.... |
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frank black conspiracy
~ Abstract Brain ~
1126 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2005 : 03:48:55
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and relatively speaking, Frank Black's a genius
I doubt FB would ever compare his own musical brilliance to that of Brian wilson, you just summed up his own genius Ice cream perfectly with surf's Up. But in the bigger picture, listening to todays sounds, Franks up there with the best and will go down as one of the greatest songwriters of my generation, and all time. but i'm biased.
Hmmm, a Brian and Frank collaboration. Now there's a thought. The 'there is a place' part of Man of Steel reminds me so much of Pet sounds.
Oh, and to quote Elvis Costello as genius and not Frank Black......click....bang! |
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Topic |
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Gigantic: The Story of Frank Black and the Pixies
