| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
 Posted - 11/17/2004 : 14:11:32
|
Government looking at military draft lists
http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/ts_more.php?id=62232_0_10_0_C
By ALMA WALZER
The Monitor
McALLEN, November 15, 2004 — It’s taken one year, seven months and 19 days of combat in Iraq for the Lone Star State to lose 100 of its own.
Texas is the second state, after California, to lose 100 service members, according to The Associated Press.
With continuing war in Iraq and U.S. armed forces dispersed to so many other locations around the globe, Americans may be wondering if compulsory military service could begin again for the first time since the Vietnam War era.
The Selective Service System (SSS) and the U.S. Department of Education now are gearing up to compare their computer records, to make sure all men between the ages of 18 and 25 who are required to register for a military draft have done so.
The SSS and the education department will begin comparing their lists on Jan. 1, 2005, according to a memo authored by Jack Martin, acting Selective Service director.
While similar record checks have been done periodically for the past 10 years, Martin’s memo is dated Oct. 28, just a few days before the Nov. 2 presidential election, a hard-fought campaign in which the question of whether the nation might need to reinstate a military draft was raised in debates and on the stump.
It took several more days, until Nov. 4, for the document to reach the Federal Register, the official daily publication for rules and notices of federal agencies and organizations.
The memo was also produced after the U.S. House voted 402-2 on Oct. 5, against House Resolution 163, a bill that would have required all young people, including women, to serve two years of military service.
Under federal law, a military draft cannot be started without congressional support.
About 94 percent of all men are properly registered for a draft, according to Richard Flahavan, associate director of the office of public and intergovernmental affairs for SSS.
Martin’s memo is just a routine thing, Flahavan said.
“Back in 1982 a federal law was passed that basically linked federal grants, student loans and federal assistance to students with Selective Service,” Flahavan said. “You had to register with Selective Service with a Social Security number (in order to receive federal assistance), and as a consequence of the law the Department of Education came up with an agreement on how to exchange and compare data to comply with the law.
“It just so happens that the current agreement in effect expires next month,” Flahavan said. “All we did is update the agreement slightly, but it has no substantive changes. There is nothing new or shocking to link this to some type of draft right around the corner because its all been in place for almost 18 years.”
Flahavan said the written agreements between SSS and the Department of Education normally run for about four or five years and suggested that a reporter search the 1999 or 2000 records of the Federal Register for the most agreement.
A search of the Federal Register by The Monitor found four such agreements between the two agencies, with effective dates as follows: Jan. 1, 1995; July 1, 1997; Jan. 1, 2000; and July 1, 2002.
All four agreements lasted for 18 months, during which time the SSS and the Department of Education could complete their comparisons.
The most recent agreement, which began July 1, 2002, actually expired Jan. 1, 2004, according to federal records located by The Monitor.
“This has nothing to with current events,” Flahavan said. “This is just the periodic renewal of previous agreements — this one is 18 months but normally it runs four years and that’s why we’re doing it now. I’m not quite sure why it’s 18 months versus the normal number of years.”
Flahavan said the agency was required to place the agreement in the Federal Register.
“That’s fine and we did,” Flahavan said. “We believe the public wouldn’t stand for a draft that isn’t fair and equitable.
“And the only way to be fair and equitable is if everyone who should register is registered, because that’s the pool from which the people who would be drafted would be selected from. So you want everyone who should be in the pot in the pot,” Flahavan said.
U.S. Rep. Lloyd Doggett, D-Austin, who officially begins representing western Hidalgo County residents in January, said Congress has voted on record against a draft.
“It was a near unanimous vote in the House,” Doggett said. “When things are filed in the Federal Register, there will be standards, and they are a reminder that if we cannot get more international participation that the risk of a draft remains out there.
“And I think we do need people to remain watchful of this possibility.”
Doggett said one type of “draft” was already being used by the military.
“I’m concerned that a very real form of the draft is there now for those already in the service,” Doggett said. “People are being forced to stay in beyond their commitment, and that’s an indication of being overextended.
“I want us to pursue policies that don’t overextend us and involve more international participation, so that Americans don’t have to do all the dying and endure all the pain for these international activities,” Doggett said.
Flahavan said the computer records check would help Selective Service with its compliance rates.
“From 1999 to 2000, it was dropping about a percent a year,” Flahavan said. “It’s now inching back up about a percent a year. Last year it was 93 percent.
“At the end of 2004 we anticipate about a 94 percent compliance rate,” Flahavan said. “We’re pleased we’ve got it back on the rise and that’s where we want to keep it — that’s our goal.”
Draft Gear Up?
Who Has To Register?
All male U.S. citizens and male aliens living in the U.S. between the ages of 18 and 25
Dual nationals of the U.S. and another country, regardless of where they live
Young men who are in prison or mental institutions do not have to regsiter while they are committed, but must do so if they are released and not reached age 26
Disabled men who live at home and can move about indiependently.
Myths
Contrary to popular belief, only sons and the last son to carry a family name must register and they can be drafted.
What Happens In A Draft
Congress would likely approve a military draft in a time of crisis, in which the mission requires more troops than are in the volunteer military.
Selective Service procedures would treat married men or those with children the same as single men.
The first men to be called up will be those whose 20th birthday falls during that year, followed by those age 21, 22, 23,24 and 25.
The last men to be called are 18 and 19 years of age.
Historical Facts
The last man to be drafted was in June 1973.
Number of Drafted for WWI : 2.8 million
Number of Drafted for WWII: 10 million
Number of Drafted for the Korean War: 1.5 million
Number of Drafted for the Vietnam War: 1.8 million
Source: Selective Service System
------------------------------------- |
Edited by - The King Of Karaoke on 11/17/2004 14:21:28 |
|
|
Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 14:22:48
|
Slightly off topic here but I read in a paper the other day that there has been 100,000 Iraqi civilian casualties so far. Can that be correct?
__________
Godfather of nothing, ancesters of none.
Black glasses and feedback took my sense of fun.
|
 |
|
|
The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
|
|
Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 14:39:24
|
| I believe the 100,000 number is based on Lancet (UK medical journal) research, which has been widely blasted, to include by leftist journalists, as based on dubious methodology and produced by researchers who have been open about their anti-Bush bias. |
|
|
|
Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 14:41:03
|
Well even if its close to it, I am speechless.
Some liberation huh...
__________
Godfather of nothing, ancesters of none.
Black glasses and feedback took my sense of fun.
|
|
|
|
Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 14:56:46
|
http://slate.msn.com/id/2108887
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/database/
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/858gwbza.asp?pg=2
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7967-2004Oct28.html
The researchers and the Lancet editors acknowledged that the study has clear limitations, including a relatively small sample of violent deaths that were examined directly and the researchers' reliance on individual memories for some information. But the researchers said the findings represent the most reliable estimate to date.
The paper was "extensively peer-reviewed, revised, edited" and rushed into print "because of its importance to the evolving security situation in Iraq, Richard Horton, the journal's editor, wrote in an accompanying editorial.
But Garlasco of Human Rights Watch said it is extremely difficult to estimate civilian casualties, especially based on relatively small numbers. "I certainly think that 100,000 is a reach," Garlasco said.
In addition, his group's investigation indicated that the ground war, not the air war, caused more of the deaths that have occurred.
|
|
|
|
Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 14:57:56
|
I read a criticism of that report that took the same data and calculated an estimate of 4-8,000 civilian deaths. It was basically slanted and took its sample from Fallujah during the heaviest fighting and projected it over the entire country.
They have met their goal though, when the report can be debunked but folks still use it to base assumptions and/or outrage. Its the same thing Michael Moore does. Well, even if half of what he says is true... or Carolynanna's post above.
Freedom never has nor never will be free. It sucks, but, that is life. People who can oppress with impunity will do so until forced to stop. Or get scared enough to stop (see Libya for example). |
|
|
|
Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 15:03:49
|
I see your point Dallas.
4-8000 is quite different.
I know stats can be manipulated or just plain untrue.
Obviously I think the less civilian casualties the better,
I wonder what kind of strategies are in place to minimize them?
__________
Godfather of nothing, ancesters of none.
Black glasses and feedback took my sense of fun.
|
Edited by - Carolynanna on 11/17/2004 15:08:07 |
|
|
|
The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 15:07:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
I believe the 100,000 number is based on Lancet (UK medical journal) research, which has been widely blasted, to include by leftist journalists, as based on dubious methodology and produced by researchers who have been open about their anti-Bush bias.
I'm going to agree with you on that. In reading the article you find it's some sketchy survey of people and family members that know people that have been killed in Iraq etc, etc.
I wish I could cut through all the left and right bullshit and just get the facts.
My very intelligent, very pro Bush, best friend wanted me to check out this site this morning.
http://thetruthaboutiraq.org/
To me it's just a propaganda site.
Sighting pole numbers from when? Two years ago?
Donate money so we can hit this location six times a day with this commercial to persuade them to vote Bush etc, etc.
I hope he was joking. He and I are trying to see each others sides.
------------------------------------- |
Edited by - The King Of Karaoke on 11/17/2004 15:09:20 |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 15:25:26
|
It makes me sad when sides get in the way of things. It makes it almost impossible to get a straight anything.....
Frank Black ate my hamster |
|
|
|
Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 15:57:22
|
Carolynanna - I'm not saying 4-8000 is right either. I hope that one is too high. But, it might be wrong too. I wont be one to pick out an 'acceptable' number either. The goal has got to be zero, regardless of how impossible that is.
The US has taken steps to minimize civilian deaths such as more sophisticated smart bombs, using smaller bands of forces and doing targeted 'raids' on suspected hideouts etc.. But, they aren't able to do anything that completely eliminates civilian death. The main reason for that is the enemy believes it has the moral authority to use the civilian population for their gain. If that means blowing up 100 civilians to get to the 1 US/Coalition soldier or to get to some number of iraqi police or soldiers, they do it. They pose as civilians, which as a practice increases the risk that civilians will be killed. They force civilians to aide them (I'm sure some do so willingly, but, many do so under the threat of death). None of that helps civilian body counts.
I'm with you 100% that whatever the # is, from a humanistic standpoint, its too many. |
|
|
|
kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2004 : 18:29:17
|
In the news today there was a story about a disabled retired
vet who has been ordered to ship out to Iraq. The front page
of my local paper today has a photo of a guy kissing his
two-week-old baby goodbye as he leaves for Iraq. A friend of
mine, who has two kids under the age of 4, turned in her Guard
commission (I believe that is the right term) two days before her
unit discovered they were being sent over there.
 I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank |
Edited by - kathryn on 11/17/2004 18:30:47 |
|
|
|
The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
|
|
Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2004 : 04:50:11
|
Erebus and Dallas, considering Hussein was left in power after the first Gulf incursion, basically the equivalent of putting Mike Tyson in the ring with Jessica Tandy, ever get the feeling someone's having a rather warped joke at your expenses?
P.S. Don't bother labelling me with the antiBush tag, I mean if it makes you feel more comfortable or if it gives you a quicker way to answer my question feel free, but I'll tell you now though I hardly agree with a thing that comes out of his mouth I love him and accept him as another human being, cause I feel like if I don't I'm just hating part of myself.
--
Moving from the clown to the jester will mean moving from similar to same, from alike to identical, from comparable to analogous. Though applied differently, the colours used on one can be used on another, and a couple of changes of costume will rapidly transform the jester into a clown and the clown into a jester. Strictly speaking, they almost duplicate each other as regards clothes and function, the only difference between them, from a social point of view, is that clowns do not usually visit the palaces of kings. |
|
|
|
Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2004 : 08:09:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Newo
Erebus and Dallas, considering Hussein was left in power after the first Gulf incursion, basically the equivalent of putting Mike Tyson in the ring with Jessica Tandy, ever get the feeling someone's having a rather warped joke at your expenses?
For some time I have read that most likely no move was made against Baghdad & Saddam at that time because Bush Sr had agreed not to as a condition of cooperation by the Saudis and other middle eastern countries.
If there's a joke it is the "sensitive" code of "modern" warfare. |
|
|
|
kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2004 : 10:46:46
|
Since my last post, a local woman in her early 20s, who has two
kids under 5, has been called back for another 18-month tour
-- she got the notice 10 days after she returned home.
Have you heard yet the expression "backdoor draft"?
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank |
Edited by - kathryn on 11/19/2004 10:48:14 |
|
|
|
BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Government looking at military draft lists
