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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
 Posted - 11/01/2004 : 15:07:18
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I was checking (hehe) the kids' candy last night,
when I noticed a few different cards and a cassette tape.
It was a tape of hymns and the cards all had various different christian messages and things like where to buy christian kids' books etc.
I thought it was in poor taste, any opinions?
__________
Godfather of nothing, ancesters of none.
Black glasses and feedback took my sense of fun.
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 15:12:30
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take them to the FBI lab to find out who gave them out, or walk door to door to find out, or ask around. anyway find out.
then insert a door stop into all exits and burn the fucking house down.
'poor taste' is the understatement of the year.
edit: i meant stop not jamb. regardless, i meant seal the exits somehow. |
Edited by - Ebb Vicious on 11/01/2004 15:13:13 |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 15:15:22
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Christians weren't too happy with Halloween being on a Sunday. In my old town (in Texas) they were suggesting people trick-or-treat on Saturday, but I don't know if that was because of school or religion.
Crappiest treat last night: 18 pennies. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 15:20:17
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I don't like it when people go over my head to try to convince my kids of something. I've had other parents ask to bring my kids to church before. This was just a bit shocking as its the first year I've seen it.
So that being said,
why do jehovah's witnesses not like halloween?
They don't like being bothered by all that knocking on their doors.
__________
Godfather of nothing, ancesters of none.
Black glasses and feedback took my sense of fun.
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Edited by - Carolynanna on 11/01/2004 15:24:06 |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 15:27:22
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i think it's plain fucking evil to try to teach someone else's kid your own values. that's just a symptom of the mental illness of religion, though. it tells you that your belief is THE RIGHT ONE, so it's ok to teach it to everyone.
another common pile of bullshit religious assholes like to try to feed you is they are just "presenting the information" so the child can make a decision. hey guess what? a child is ont capable of making a real decision like that.
assholes. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 15:29:07
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Agreed.
I feel the same way about the Sear's Christmas wishbook,
or the toys for McDonald's happy meals,
even the candy at the checkout counter at the grocery store.
Sometimes it feels like I have no control.
__________
Godfather of nothing, ancesters of none.
Black glasses and feedback took my sense of fun.
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Edited by - Carolynanna on 11/01/2004 15:36:14 |
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KimStanleyRobinson
* Dog in the Sand *
1972 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 15:35:27
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A buddy of mine said "I think I'm gonna stay home next year and hand out information about diabetes..." after his 4th or 5th piece of candy. It was funny.
The act you describe is characteristically sneaky.
Problem with christians is that they are bound by their teaching to 'spread the word'...which means alot of unsolicited brainwashing attempts to all the rest of us. They're determined to take back rock and roll, halloween, the media...everything until their church walls become the world all around and the planet is awash in 'salvation', everybody wearing white robes and green meadows everywhere.
Sorry.
Not today.
Not with my kid. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 15:37:48
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They also got a few toothbrushes.
I know my dentist hands out toothbrushes.
Those sneaky dentist bastards! (j/k)
__________
Godfather of nothing, ancesters of none.
Black glasses and feedback took my sense of fun.
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KimStanleyRobinson
* Dog in the Sand *
1972 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 15:48:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
Agreed.
I feel the same way about the Sear's Christmas wishbook,
or the toys for McDonald's happy meals,
even the candy at the checkout counter at the grocery store.
Sometimes it feels like I have no control.
We must be careful here. There is a difference between healthy parental control and micro-management of their lives.
I can't keep my kid from getting into video games since there are so many parents out there who see nothing wrong wth them, but I can make it known that I don't dig them and that if he fights me on it, he'll lose. As long as my son thinks I'm pretty cool, he'll give my preference a little consideration before rebelling entirely.
The thing I really am trying to do is to teach my son to distrust brain/eye/mind candy...to try to dig good music, healthy human interaction and a respect for the natural world - that it is far more meritous to spend a day outside in the dirt than a day in front of Nick. It may be idealistic, but you have to start somewhere. I sure as hell don't want him tying fun to machines or devices. People are more fun than anything.
I'm trying to prevent him from becoming me in a way...and don't tell me its a losing battle guys - I know...but I have to try. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 15:53:16
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Wow, that sounds awfully familiar.
You're right, its important to keep a good balance.
Most important to teach critical thinking.
__________
Godfather of nothing, ancesters of none.
Black glasses and feedback took my sense of fun.
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 16:01:17
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critical thinking is key, i agree.
i don't think anything is wrong with video games any more than music or movies or tv.
the problem is with the majority of content in all of those mediums. you have to teach your kids to have taste.
my youngest brother literally has behavioral problems because my parents let him play video games too early (starting when he was 1), and so i think it's something you don't let them start until they are old enough to separate the real world from pixels on the tv or monitor.
but once they're old enough there's nothing wrong with letting your kid play games which build strategic thinking (warcraft3), hand-eye coordination (street fighter, tetris) and imagination (zelda, other role playing gammes.) |
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KimStanleyRobinson
* Dog in the Sand *
1972 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 16:17:59
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Well, admittedly, the video game thing is a bit personal. I don't like them because I know how I can get sucked into them and I feel they can help to excacerbate a tendancy to not want to interact with people, which I fear he'll inherit from me. I feel that if my father had pushed me a little harder to be involved in things - band, sports, clubs, etc - i would have been better off and wouldn't have ended up a bitter, frightened teenager and consequently a pretty screwed up adult. I want to give my son the knowledge that group interaction is fun and healthy. I hope to impart this to him - to be careful in his usage of video games.
Television is similar. Hours spent in front of a TV are hours spent not doing something else...and just about anything is better for a kid than sitting in front of a TV.
Taste is harder for me to impart. His mother listens to the local garbage pop station (only thing other than country during the day) in the car and it burns me up when I hear him singing some Nickeback or Creed tune, but when he's with me he gets a healthy dose of what I believe to be more important music...lately that has been old REM, Pixies, Gillian Welch and some old time stuff among others. Most importantly, he sees me playing guitar or banjo around the house alot. This morning before school he picked up the little guitar I got him for his birthday in Feb and sat down on the couch with it in the correct position I taught him when I gave it to him. Before, it was just kind of a toy, but this morning he treated it like a guitar - an instrument - something to respect. I was so stoked I took a pic of it. If the shutterfly site isn't still down, I'll post it. I was happy.
Sometimes being a father is absolutely terrifying and sometimes it is really very, very cool.
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Edited by - KimStanleyRobinson on 11/02/2004 07:36:42 |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 16:22:48
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that's understandable, i fell into the same pit of videogames instead of real interaction myself.
but the counter to that is to encourage him to play mostly video games that involve other people. :)
anyway, i see your point and agree with your values! :) |
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KimStanleyRobinson
* Dog in the Sand *
1972 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 16:37:44
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Thanks man!
It is difficult. I have a fear that someday he will be so at odds with his peers - that they'll all be these mindless zombiefied spending machines, he'll have nothing in common with them. I'm scared shitless of junior high...and he's only six.
Thing about it is though, when he was two I was scared shitless of him being six.
I hope to help him to become one of those people we all wanted to be (and some of you were and still are) in school - the ones that were intelligent, genuinely positive, irreverent, fun and could hang out with just about any social circle without getting sucked in. An open, creative, life-loving person.
Parenting can make you a bit of an idealist as well.
We'll see.
I got some time yet. |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 16:40:03
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hey that was me without the positive part. ;P
parenting is pretty simple in theory; encourage good things, discourage bad things.
it's the specifics that are a bitch.
set a great example is the best thing you can do. |
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KimStanleyRobinson
* Dog in the Sand *
1972 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 17:06:55
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Thats one of the scariest things - the example.
I think every parent worries about that.
I could go into it more of course, but suffice to say, just because one becomes a parent does not mean they have stopped learning or growing...or are completely 'grown up'...quite the contrary actually.
I drink and I smoke and I cuss like a sailor, but never in front of him- or near him for that matter.
Am I hiding it from him? Of course I'm hiding it from him and it is very bad to hide things from your children (we should all be absolutely open and honest from day one - right? Right. Sure.), but right now it is part of who I am and would rather not glorify it or have him imitating me - who he'll imitate first since he has no siblings.
You other parents have your monsters in the closet too. Might not be alcohol or smoking, but you know what I mean.
"The best you can" is also a tricky one. I won't go into that...
Anyway, enough of this, back to bashing christians. Ha!! |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 17:47:22
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I hear ya KSR, my son goes to junior high next year...
I try to get him to think about things critically.
I try to throw my two bits in there.
It backfired one time when he was playing some snowboarding game and he was some chick in a bikini.
So I said, D don't you think she'll be a little cold on the ski hill with only an itty bitty bikini on.
And he says, that's where you're wrong mom, she's smokin hot...;)
haha, smart kid.
__________
Godfather of nothing, ancesters of none.
Black glasses and feedback took my sense of fun.
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 20:24:03
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i am an active catholic (and clearly a fan of the catholics) and i still am offended by what your kids received. faith is something that cannot be shoved down throats. my only objection to what has been said is that everyone here is about choice and letting their kids make their own decisions, but have you ever given your kids real choices about different religions? this isn't meant to be judgemental, but i think its a point often ignored.
when i was younger my best friend was jewish, and we used to always ask questions about each other's services, traditions, etc. this gave me perspective about what someone else believed and it did not make me want to be jewish - i just understood it more. maybe its not a bad idea for parents who don't want to push religion on their kids to still expose them to some sort of faith system, just so that they understand why there are over 2 billion "people of faith" in the world.
just my two cents
-brian
 - "I joined the Cult of Frank / And they tried to cut off my nuts and make me put on a blue jumpsuit"
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 20:38:28
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There is one clear rule in nature, whether we're talking about bears, birds, or any animal under the sun:
Stay the FUCK away from my kids.
Nobody has the right to attempt to 'convert' your kids anymore than you have the right to attempt to 'convert' theirs. I sometimes wonder how these people would feel if their kids were approached by someone of a different religion or no religion. Sadly, I doubt they'd see the irony.
It's bad enough people have little enough respect for each others' intelligence as adults to attempt to convert them. Going after someone's kids is despicable beyond reason and I might quite possibly have throttled the person if I had been witness to such a thing.
I am more of a 'passive' Christian, I guess, in that I believe in God/Jesus but don't really pay respects to the pope, and it is shameful how pushy others can be.
"Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 22:02:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
have you ever given your kids real choices about different religions?
as i said above, which you obviously ignored, so i will make it more attention grabbing this time:
CHILDREN ARE NOT CAPABLE OF THAT KIND OF DECISION
it's a blatant lie to say that they can. you fucking know they can't. they can't even pick a breakfast cereal. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 22:20:34
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My ex-girlfriend's dad is a doukabour (sp?) and believed that his kids should make that decision on their own and when they're old enough, so their no faith taught. A couple of people approached her younger sister when she was like 10 and playing in the playground and started promoting whatever their religion was to them. To two ten year old girls.
That story just makes me upset, especially given that he tried to leave it up to his children.
It's possible, Ebb, that Brian is saying that by making the choice for them at a young age (by baptism/etc) that perhaps the kids as people (when they grow older) no longer feel they have a choice or no longer need to make a choice as it was made for them. I think there's some sense in that. Although, that said, for most sane people, religion is about how to live your life well/values/morals/beliefs rather than about our religion is best, convert-the-masses type of fanatical stuff, and I don't know how you could raise your kids well (or at all) without imparting some of that either directly or indirectly.
"Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 23:35:54
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the way he worded it made it seem to me that he is suggesting presenting religions to children.
hey, guess what? there's no fucking point because they can't really understand it. it's just stupid. |
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Hatchetman
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
234 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 03:07:59
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Frankly I'm amazed that in this day and age people still believe in a 'higher power'.
Ade
As the air conditioner hummed.... |
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see meant
- FB Fan -
13 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 03:13:24
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin
Christians weren't too happy with Halloween being on a Sunday. In my old town (in Texas) they were suggesting people trick-or-treat on Saturday, but I don't know if that was because of school or religion.
Here in Utah they DID celebrate Halloween on Saturday. They do it every year that it falls on a Sunday. On the bright side, it would kick ass to be a kid in that situation, because there's always a few straggler trick or treaters on Sunday. Nothing to say you can't go out on Saturday for the lion's share and then scrape the bottom of the barrel for any remaining scraps that might be out there on Sunday while all the other kids are home. |
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ObfuscateByWill
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1887 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 03:24:28
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In my area a Baptists church was handing out fairly graphic anti-abortion literature.
You got the little pamplet, a couple of dum-dums and a jolly rancher.
It was covered by the local news: http://wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=2508455
 Take a bite of the chocolate coffin. |
Edited by - ObfuscateByWill on 11/02/2004 07:31:53 |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 05:42:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
the way he worded it made it seem to me that he is suggesting presenting religions to children.
hey, guess what? there's no fucking point because they can't really understand it. it's just stupid.
i wasn't suggesting taking them shopping through the supermarket of religions, i was just asking whether or not they are even aware of it. clearly a child cannot make those kind of choices. this is like if you don't expose your child to safe sex at a young age - of course they physically can't have sex until their at age ___, but if they are informed before then, when the time comes to make the choice, then they have something in their heads to make their choices with. kids may not be ready to make these choices, but that doesn't mean that they should have no idea what the word religion even means - especially in our religiously charged world where wars are fought on the "my God vs. your God" principle.
that being said, the candy/pamphlet thing is way fucked up. i'm with dean: stay away from my kids.
-brian
- "I joined the Cult of Frank / And they tried to cut off my nuts and make me put on a blue jumpsuit"
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6213 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 07:35:14
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I think you can expose children to religion too
not in the way carolynanna describes though
that's fucked up
(although your second argument, parents taking your children to church is a bit different.
I mean, I need a little more info, to say that's wrong. My family goes to church on sunday,
when a kid sleepsover her, the kid goes with us. I don't really like it, but it's not like
we are converting the kid, it's just what we do. When a friend of my brother comes to diner, we don't
skipp the praying bit. It's what we do, we don't try to convince the kid, but I think it's also wrong to do
like you are not religious. When I was a kid I hoped my parents would skipp all the religion part out of our family business
, because religion isn't exactly as cool as the ninja turtles, but that aside. It's what we do.
Before I gett mad people on my back, we don't ask the child to pray with us, we don't ask him to repeat wat was said in church, nothing, he or she just goes with us. Maybe he has the most boring day of his live, but as long as you don't push your religion but simply let him know what you do, they get some respect for it)
to me is halloween a stupid holiday anyway
I hate that holland becomes more and more like the united states
in terms of holidays
we traditionally don't celebrate it
but nowadays more and more people do it
I can see that you americans have haloween
I don't know where it came from exactly
I believe a catholic day or so
but in our tradition/culture
children don't dress up and trick or treat away
we have similair tradition (st.maarten)
which is based on the same catholic thing I guess
that's is vanishing
ohhh globalization.....
 "I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
Edited by - billgoodman on 11/02/2004 07:36:33 |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6213 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 07:43:04
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I don't want to draw swords with you ebb
but you know
to act like childeren don't understand religion
and are best kept away for it
is a bit unfair to childeren
they do understand something
I was raised calvinistic
and I am a bit more tolerant to other peoples ideas than that you write
why?
because learning about christianity learned me about the jews, muslim, budhist and hindu
it's part of the programm
In our church and christian school they learned us about everything
I don't know if there is something like that in the USA
but I was certainly not brainwashed and stuff
"I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 07:47:28
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Not Catholic at all
Pagan
Samhain
European continent/British Isles
the dates circumvented by Catholicism
into All Saints Day and All Hallows' Day/Evening
then warped a bit
from commercialization
"Halloween.
Sly does it. Tiptoe catspaws. Slide and creep.
But why? What for? How? Who? When! Where did it all begin?
'You don't know, do you?' asks Carapace Clavicle Moundshroud climbing out
under the pile of leaves under the Halloween Tree. 'You don't REALLY know!'"
--Ray Bradbury, "The Halloween Tree" |
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ObfuscateByWill
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1887 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 08:00:11
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
Not Catholic at all
Pagan
Samhain
European continent/British Isles
the dates circumvented by Catholicism
into All Saints Day and All Hallows' Day/Evening
then warped a bit
from commercialization
There was an epsiode of "The Real Ghostbusters" about this.
Egon set it all out for us kids.
Take a bite of the chocolate coffin. |
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1718 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 08:15:55
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I'm with Ade, can't wait for humanity to grow out of that "god" business.
We've been having this Halloween stuff here for a few years now. Of course lots of people whine about the fact that we're being Americanized. But that's the way it goes... just one more excuse to make you buy stuff. They use the kids at every opportunity now, it's the shortest route to the parents' wallets. What can you do? (Except not have kids, but even I, who don't, admit that it's a bit of a radical solution.)
I wasn't home for most of the weekend though, so I didn't see too much of the little buggers.
I had this conversation with one of them:
"--Give us candy or we cast a SPELL on you!
--Oh yeah? What spells do you know?
-- (Short dumbfounded silence.) Uh, a LOT!"
My wife faced a tiny ghost who went "RwAARRRrrr"...
"HER: What is it?
TINY GHOST: RwwwaRRRRRrrr!
HER (amused): What do you want?
TG: (Short dumbfounded silence.) RrrrrrWArrrrRRR!
TG'S PARENTS, encouraging him: Go on. Tell the lady! Say it! Can... Can...
TG: ... RWWWWWAARRRRRRR!!!"
That kid certainly lived the part :)
What I'm saying is, all in all, it's just kids having fun. I don't mind giving them some candy once a year. Plus it's a great opportunity for me to slip them my "Ten Reasons Why You Should Worship Satan" pamphlets ;)
Take this rock and shake it 'til it bleeds. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 08:22:57
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That's a little condescending and I don't care for it at all. Choose to believe what you want. Saying things like "waiting for humanity to grow up" or "can't believe people still believe in this day and age" is a little like me calling you evil or a bad person. It's no better than someone with some religious belief condeming those from other religions.
"Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 08:31:35
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sorry, it's true. religion is a crutch. it's the comforting answer to the following question:
Why are we here?
a) some mystical magical dude made everything like you make a clay dinosaur.
b) we have no fucking clue. your guess is as good as mine.
it's obvious that all religions are baloney. we just don't know what the hell happened to put s here, and it's scary. unlike the other two guys, i don't really begrudge people who need the comfort blanket of religion to make it through their lives. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6213 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 08:42:44
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your guess is indeed as good as mine
so that's no reason for me
to be mad at you
or to be mad at me
let's be friends
"I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 08:52:17
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| the problem is religion says a, it doesn't say 'your guess is as good as mine' it says 'my guess is right.' |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 09:10:24
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But that's exactly what you're saying, is it not? "It's obvious that all religions are baloney" What makes it okay for an atheist to say that their beliefs are the correct ones when we most of us would agree that a Christian/Catholic/Jew/Islam/... claiming that THEIR religion is the right one is wrong?
Faith and religion are different as well, and you don't have to 'be religious' to believe in some higher power.
I don't need a comfort blanket and I don't necessarily do it out of fear, I just think that it's intuitively obvious that, when I look at the complexity of the universe, or of our own world, there must be something behind it. That doesn't mean I think that people who don't believe are short a few bricks, quite the contrary, I understand the evidence supporting that position, too. But it tires me to be lumped in with mindless zealots, as it might tire you to be lumped in with 'satanists' which is what I'm sure the zealots would classify you as, however good a person you might be.
"Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
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Halloween treats from Christians
