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brick_is_red
- FB Fan -
USA
5 Posts |
 Posted - 10/28/2004 : 08:32:59
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I have a hypothesis I would like to present to you all.
I think that D=R x T, Track 12 from Trompe le Monde while in my opinion being a pretty entertaining little rocker, was basically a last-minute studio quickie. Allow me to explain.
Any of you who have listened to the FrankBlackFrancis version of "Subbacultcha" might notice that there is a bridge part after the 2nd and 3rd verses that was never there before. Vocal melody aside, the guitar riff underneath sounded VERY familiar to me.
Then I placed it - it's the exact same riff that comprises D=R x T on Trompe le monde, the same Pixies album that debuted a true studio version of Subbacultcha, noticeably MISSING this wierd bridge part.
That got me thinking. Amid all the talk that Trompe le Monde was a little "rushed," that FB wished he had reworked some of his lyrics etc. I wonder if that part was gutted out of Subbacultcha at the last minute just to have another track on the album based on that riff? D = R x T is a VERY simple song - there isn't much to it other than the new vocal melody and that riff.
Then again, maybe there was more to it than that.
I just had to throw this out there. |
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the thing
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
313 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 08:41:54
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I think it's fairly well established that D=RxT was born of Subbacultcha - I think the old version survives in the Purple Tapes as well.
 Forget the cults I got me a whole church! |
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marcusb
= Cult of Ray =
USA
308 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 08:42:21
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I believe you can here this in both the Purple Tape and Frank Black Francis demos..
I once killed a boy with a Fender guitar |
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
653 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 09:24:36
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quote:
Originally posted by the thing
I think it's fairly well established that D=RxT was born of Subbacultcha - I think the old version survives in the Purple Tapes as well.
A fan brought this up to Frank in a Q & A a couple of years ago, and gave him some mild flack for it as I recall.
He basically told them they were his songs, and he could do with them as he pleased, whether that meant re-using a bridge or a chord progression here or there if he felt it worked to the benefit of the tune. His attitude seemed to be that folks who nitpick over stuff like that are missing the point of the songwriting craft (I'm not suggesting that brick_is_red falls into that category).
I remember seeing him in Atlanta years ago on the Pistolero tour, and someone kept hollering for "Los Angeles", and he finally said, I don't wanna play that, but here's a new song with the exact same music."
Then he played "Dog Gone."
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
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Thomas
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1615 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 09:56:18
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DITTO
I'm sure if someone looks you can find the link to that Q&A somewhere on the BBS.
quote:
Originally posted by peter radiator
quote:
Originally posted by the thing
I think it's fairly well established that D=RxT was born of Subbacultcha - I think the old version survives in the Purple Tapes as well.
A fan brought this up to Frank in a Q & A a couple of years ago, and gave him some mild flack for it as I recall.
He basically told them they were his songs, and he could do with them as he pleased, whether that meant re-using a bridge or a chord progression here or there if he felt it worked to the benefit of the tune. His attitude seemed to be that folks who nitpick over stuff like that are missing the point of the songwriting craft (I'm not suggesting that brick_is_red falls into that category).
I remember seeing him in Atlanta years ago on the Pistolero tour, and someone kept hollering for "Los Angeles", and he finally said, I don't wanna play that, but here's a new song with the exact same music."
Then he played "Dog Gone."
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
"Our Love is Rice and Beans and Horses Lard" |
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brick_is_red
- FB Fan -
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 12:37:12
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Well, I made the topic a little too harsh I guess, just to grab people's attention. :)
Thanks for the replies everyone. Seems like its been long documented, but it was still kindof interesting for me, since I picked it up on my own listening.
Believe me, I think no less of FB or those two songs knowing their origins - I completely agree that an artist can do whatever the hell he or she feels like doing and not feel the need to explain it or justify it.
Really, the fact that Subbacultcha and D = R x T both ROCK HARD on Trompe speaks volumes about the wisdom of his choice. |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 16:09:40
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quote:
Amid all the talk that Trompe le Monde was a little "rushed," that FB wished he had reworked some of his lyrics etc. I wonder if that part was gutted out of Subbacultcha at the last minute just to have another track on the album based on that riff?
TLM has a lot of songs even without "D=RxT," so I don't think it was a case of "Oh, no! This album is too short! We need another song!" It was recycled, sure, but is that a bad thing?
The title of the song also links to "Space (I Believe In)," so maybe Frank was going for some kind of a running thread for the TLM songs.
"Signature quotes are so lame." --Nathan |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 16:38:47
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The "Subbacultcha" and "D=RxT" on TROMPE LE MONDE are improvements on was originally demoed.
The interview discussed here is at http://blogcritics.org/archives/2002/09/09/202154.php
A bunch of annoying blog people interviewed Frank in 2002. Frank doesn't seem to like these people. It's kind of an embarassement.
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GN: You used the bridge section from the original version of "Subbacultcha" to make a whole new song on Trompe Le Monde. That kinda strikes me as cheating, were you running out of ideas towards the end?
FB: Why is that cheating? I can do whatever I want with my own songs for corn's sake. The "original" version as you say is the one that got published on Trompe Le Monde. What you hear on the purple tape (released this past July) is a previously unpublished version of the song. If you feel cheated beause you purchased two songs of mine that happen to feature an overlapped chorus (not a bridge) then feel free to patronize another artist. As far as running out if ideas is concerned, that's for you, my darling critic, to decide on your own.
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 16:39:45
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Ahhh, but there is an explanation.
They were one song even going into the Trompe recording sessions. However, Gil Norton thought that the two didn't mesh too well and posed the question to Frank if they might not work better as two separate songs. Frank agreed and there you have it. |
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spunXtain
= Cult of Ray =
USA
377 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2004 : 00:28:03
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Someone change the topic creator's member title to "Captain Obvious".
Got coffee, got donuts, got wasted.. |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2463 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2004 : 05:13:41
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It's true, the two songs rock very hard.
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2004 : 05:26:41
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A guy who has written about 300 incredible songs "ran out of ideas." That's hilarious!
Many songwriters do the same thing. FB didn't write lyrics to "Surf Epic" till DITS, does that make it "recycled?"
REM did the same thing with many early songs. The music was written, but the lyrical ideas didn't come till later, or Stipe thought they could be improved.
The real problem is that now, with the internet, and easy access to every freaking thing in the world, that people are getting insight and access to early releases of movies, albums, etc. and forming opinions on stuff that wasn't meant to be public.
Unfortunately, now we probably will get less access to the creative process due to critics and fans giving artists crap about unfinished work. Songs and scripts and all great works of art go through many revisions, re-writes, or what have you before they become the classics that we know and love. |
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Zsolt G.
- FB Fan -
117 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2004 : 18:45:19
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| Aren't the lyrics of this song about the fact that this song is a space filler? |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2004 : 14:23:03
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no, you're thinking of space (I believe in)
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Subbacultcha/d=r x t - Frank Black Cheated!
