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Ten Percenter
- FB Enquirer -
United Kingdom
1733 Posts |
 Posted - 10/15/2004 : 02:31:21
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Frank Black fans avert your eyes ("the Ocean of Irrevelance that Frank now inhabits"??):
http://www.cokemachineglow.com/reviews/fbf_fbf2004.html
Sometimes I wonder what life would be like if I had never heard the Pixies. Where would I be without them? Would I like music as much as I do without the Pixies? Probably not. It’s a scary thought. Given the choice, obviously, there’s no way I’d part with the experience of hearing the Pixies for the first time. Because while there have dark moments between he and I lately (see the section about Disc Two of this set below), I’ve learned to accept the good with the bad when it comes to Frank Black.
On the one hand, he’s brought me hours of misery with some of his recent "material," but on the other hand he (along with the rest of the Pixies) changed every single perception I had about music. Surfer Rosa (1988) knocked my socks off. The first day I heard it, a crisp fall day during my freshman year of college, I walked to my classes with my mouth agape and couldn’t think about anything else. So I listened to it again. And again. And again.
The Pixies were one of the most amazing bands I’d ever heard, one whose total package was somehow better than the sum of its impressive parts: The jagged, jangling, roaring, surf-tinged, vaguely Spanish guitars; the impassioned cryptic, sci-fi or religious lyrics about a destitute world that were either screeched by Frank or breathily intoned by Kim Deal; the rock steady bass notes pouring out of Deal’s side of the stage, anchoring any theatrics Frank or Joey Santiago would venture into; the bone-chilling drums of David Lovering that made it sound like the walls were falling down around me; the melodic hooks that made everything stick together and always seemed to blindside me.
What forged those parts into something even better was a superb understanding of songwriting dynamics that few bands could boast. Their trademarked quiet-loud structure became the blueprint for most relevant '90s post-punk and rock (see: Nirvana and Radiohead), and that certainly wasn’t the only structure they employed or that’s been lifted from their library. They are a testament to the fact that it’s not how technically proficient a band is, but how inventive and imaginative. Over the last 15 years or so, almost everyone in the band's related genres (and even some not) have name-checked, referenced or ripped off the Pixies. And the truly amazing thing is that the original, oft-pillaged songs still sound fresh and vital.
So it was with great hesitancy that I decided to pick up this album of demos and re-worked classics by Frank Black Francis. Combining his early stage name with the name he used by the time Bossanova (1990) rolled around, Black seems to try to justify his re-hashing Pixies classics by combining them with early demos, as he explains in the liner notes. And to his credit, the first disc of demos from 1987, which supposedly pre-date the sessions at Fort Apache where Come On Pilgrim was recorded, is fantastic and worth the price of admission in and of itself. While not as revelatory as something like the Beatles Anthology, this first disc is something that I imagine will be almost as interesting to Pixies fans. Black rips through fifteen utterly essential Pixies songs with only an acoustic guitar and his versatile voice and a tape recorder. And it sounds fabulous. In a testament to his fine guitar playing, songwriting and impeccable vocal delivery, there isn’t much missing here from the songs that would go on Come On Pilgrim. To wit, the “Holiday Song” version that opens this affair sounds nearly as good as the version that would end up on their first studio release.
Other Pilgrim cuts like “Isla De Encanta”, “Caribou”, “Nimrod’s Son” and “Ed Is Dead” sound just as good (the telephone that rings in the background during “Nimrod” is a great reminder of the lo-fi manner in which this set was recorded). In other songs, it’s amazing how fully Black is able to flesh things out with his crude voice and not so crude guitar work. This disc doesn’t sound as much like a demo as a stripped down Pixies set. “Oh My Golly” and “I’m Amazed” are both slightly slowed-down and benefit from the more spare arrangement of the solo setting as opposed to the full on assault they receive on Surfer Rosa. An early version of “Subbacultcha” is actually quite different from the version that wouldn’t be recorded until Trompe Le Monde (1991), featuring a different chorus altogether. It’s the only major difference in a set of songs that illustrates the power a young Frank Black wielded more than anything else. He sounds like a young lion, wailing and roaring, complemented by deft guitar work that's not so much technically sound as disarmingly catch and well-timed. As I’ve said, it’s a worthy addition to any Pixies fan’s library.
Though I loath to mention it, there is a second disc in this set that was apparently recorded by the same Frank Black Francis fellow who furiously spat the first disk out 17 years earlier. And oh, what a difference 17 years make. The first thing you realized is how much deeper his voice has gotten over the years. Sounding as much like a drunk and tired Tom Waits as some odd pseudo-jazz band from Cool World, Frank reinvents Pixies classics like “Where Is My Mind?" “Cactus," and “Velouria” in truly frightening fashion as dirges with muddy techno faux-flourishes. Sounding like he’s backed by lurching whales in heat, Black answers that burning question---what would the Pixies sound like if they were cranky old men who were insane and thought the Bladerunner soundtrack was really good?
If I keep summoning movie soundtrack references it’s because I can only assume that Black and his new friends were going for something vaguely cabaret or theatrical. Sadly, the results sound more like the soundtrack to a bad '80s cop movie than appropriate or even interesting re-takes of some of the best pop songs ever penned. The bass lines are a flying ‘fuck you’ to the brilliance of Kim Deal--– they are soupy and flaccid enough to make a listener scream, “This ain’t no holiday!” The keyboards and trumpet appear far too often and too tastelessly to sanely try to reason what they would add to any Pixies song ever. Mostly, the songs are overproduced to such hilarious heights that I can listen with a smile and tell myself that this is what happens when bands get old. Mostly.
“Where Is My Mind?” is the second song in after a decent but foreboding version of “Caribou.” The familiar Kim Deal bass line is apparently done on a bass (albeit one with the reverb kicked way the hell up) but then keyboards wash in and a melancholy trumpet fills the void left by Santiago’s searing guitar riff. There is nothing that even tries to take the place of Lovering’s bone-rumbling drums. The trumpet strikes me as the most heinous way to violate this song (and almost every song of this 13 song set), but here it toots again as the keyboard tries to emulate the guitar riff and adds some bubble effects. “Where Is My Mind?” for fish? Who has any idea?
I’ve heard that record execs are slobbering over the chance to get the Pixies in studio again to record a new album. Apparently, Frank and the rest of the real Pixies have expressed some hesitancy at this offer, not wanting to fuck with their Holy Grail of Songs they left for fans the first time around. At first, I thought they had the right idea, but the fact that Kim Deal’s last record rocked (the Breeders’ Title TK, 2002) coupled with this year’s resurgence by bands like Mission of Burma, Morrissey, Sonic Youth and even the Fall had me thinking “maybe.” However, hearing this set of reworked Pixies classics---all similarly paced and similarly over-done---is more than enough to give me serious pause. And, really, it’s just as much an argument for the Pixies NOT to record a new record as anything else. Maybe the Pixies have one great record left in them, maybe Frank could let Kim take more of a lead (as she has clearly not drifted quite as far out into the Ocean of Irrevelance that Frank now inhabits), maybe the stars could align one last time…but, really, maybe its better not knowing.
-Sean Ford, October 13, 2004
"Fried food, cigarettes, no exercise, chest pain..." (Excerpt from the Angina Monologues) |
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oddball
- FB Fan -
Germany
242 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 04:20:24
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wow, the last paragraph is terribly disturbing. To equate Frank Black's modern-day output with the Pale Boys arrangement of pixies songs is sheer ignorance on the author's bahalf. This release is in no way indicative of the pixies past, present, or future. For the simple reason that it isnt the pixies. Enough said.
Erik |
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Thomas
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1615 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 05:46:17
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I don't think Sean Ford "got", the second cd, at all. Why do you think Charles didn't call it the Pixies or Frank Black. Because it's not.
"Our Love is Rice and Beans and Horses Lard" |
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Dom
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 13:40:23
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you don't have to "get" the second CD to realize that it sucks...whatever he calls it, he shouldn't have touched those songs, not because they're canonical and perfect in their original form, but because what he's created from their ashes is just plain shit...I will love Frank Black until he dies...until I die...but calling it FBF instead of Pixies or Frank Black doesn't justify bad songs
also, i think you guys need to get a sense of humor about things...it's one review...many people shared Sean Ford's sentiment, and Frank Black will forever be stamped on rock history...
plus, he's proven himself to do a lot more shitty things than disc two of FBF |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 13:54:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
you don't have to "get" the second CD to realize that it sucks...whatever he calls it, he shouldn't have touched those songs, not because they're canonical and perfect in their original form, but because what he's created from their ashes is just plain shit...I will love Frank Black until he dies...until I die...but calling it FBF instead of Pixies or Frank Black doesn't justify bad songs
also, i think you guys need to get a sense of humor about things...it's one review...many people shared Sean Ford's sentiment, and Frank Black will forever be stamped on rock history...
plus, he's proven himself to do a lot more shitty things than disc two of FBF
This could only be one of two people: Dom Deluise, or Sean Ford. In either case, love your work (especially Cannonball Run). And I'm a regular CMG reader. I agree about the the "treated" album, I'm not a big fan. Happy holidays and welcome aboard! |
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Dom
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 13:59:47
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| actually, i'm not sean ford..but i do write for CMG....which hopefully doesn't automatically assume allegiance to Sean. we all disagree about a lot of stuff within our circle of writers, and it definitely can be said that one of us is not always going to like another's review...but eprsonally, i thought sean did a good job, and the complaints against his review, at least in the board here, were mostly unfounded. |
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Dom
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 14:00:59
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| oh, and thanks for the welcome. I appreciate it much. |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 14:09:32
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| Your Sean allegiance is sickening. Must you tow the party line? Can any of you CMGers do any wrong? Okay, I'll remove my tongue from my cheek long enough to genuinely say "hello", "I like CMG", "which writer are you then?", and "SMiLE is a melodic little miracle". And perhaps I have no patience, but I could not at all enjoy Max Richter, depsite the praise heaped upon by 'The Blue Notebooks' by both CMG and Pitchfork. Same goes for Dungen. More time and patience required for both, I suppose. |
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Dom
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 14:26:01
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ha, no problem...first off..I'm Dom Sinacola...I'm relatively new, joining in July, and I probably know the least out of everyone else that writes there
yeah, i haven't really even tried to listen to Max Richter..i really have no desire...but, as you might see if you read our year end deal whenever the hell Scott puts it up...i picked Dungen in my top 10 of the year...it took me while to get into (try a month), but one morning on the train it just kinda clicked...it gets a bit bloated and boring toward the middle, but then it fills out like a red-headed schoolgirl after a long summer vacation (pardon me if that was crass)
anyway, if you've heard anything you're really digging lately, i'd be curious to know |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 14:46:29
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| Well, second off, I'm Mike, it's a pleasure. Most of what I've been listening to lately is already covered in the CMG top 50 of the year. Lots of SMiLE, the Walkmen, Arcade Fire, Interpol, Fiery Furnaces, Wilco, Rogue Wave, etc. As for something I've been digging lately... well, I don't know if there's anythng you haven't already heard/heard of. All of the above are some of my favourite releases of the year. I'll have to get back to you when I'm at home with my full mp3 list in front of me. (I buy stuff too! Too much stuff for my budget, I swear!). Anything tickling your ears just right? |
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Dom
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 14:56:26
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yeah, well...my two absolute favorites of the year were the arcade fire and SMiLE...i saw brian wilson live in october and it was one of the best things i've ever seen..period.
hmm...something you might not have heard of? this was on our site..but i just can't get enough of the Subtle album...i believe it's called "A New White." it has Doseone from the Anticon fellowship at the helm, backed by an electronic/dark pop kinda outfit. really moving stuff.
if you're into goofy folk pop, and ordering formt eh other side of the world, i recommend Darren Hanlon's "Little Chills," which you can order from the Candle Records website. it's borderline novelty/cheeseball-ishness...but the melodies are simple and juicy, and his arrangements are often brilliant.
oh, shit!! i almost forgot...this is someone from chicago that never gets much outside-chicago attention: Andrew Bird's Bowl of Fire. "The Swimming Hour" is genius. I recommend it big time...but maybe i just have an unhealthy attachment to it. it should be pretty easy to find online or even in bigger record shops. |
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hWolsky
= Cult of Ray =
France
696 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 19:12:59
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My advice of the night as a man of good taste:
'Mother Fist and Her Five Daughters' by Marc Almond and the Willing Sinners (1987)
Na na na ! Moi aussi j'peux faire de la pub pour des gens que je connais pas sans en tirer le moindre bénéfice et pour faire le mec qui s'y connais, comme si mon opinion avait la moindre importance etc, etc................
SS |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 19:25:43
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i disagree w/ the article and i think that messing with a classic is one thing (ie. the Star Wars "Special Edition") but offering a skewed supplement is another. its not like now that there is the 2 pale boys rendering of "Caribou" that the original disappears. with this sort of logic, no band should ever play a recorded track live since it might sully the original recording
-B-B-B-Brian
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2004 : 19:34:31
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it's hard to take a reviewer seriously who uses the phrase [that album] "knocked my socks off"
golly.
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
Edited by - floop on 12/20/2004 19:40:26 |
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Dom
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2004 : 10:00:21
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i don't think the point of the article is that classics shouldn't be questioned and toyed with, because classics need that kind of testing to maintain their validity as, well, classics...but i think it was more like, "hey,, look at how these songs I've always loved sound so BAD"
which, in a way, is pretty cool of a concept, a concept that i would put past frank, but a good song is a good song, and disc two has very little "good" songs
look at Bonnie Prince Billy's "Greatest Palace Music"...he wasn't as harrowing on his old classics as frank is here, but the same deal applies: a song is only as valid as the recording, and these songs that we love are just those particular recordings. maybe the songs themselves are more ephemeral and not as worthy of such lavish praise, and the recordings should be given the medal. regardless, to get all pissed off over criticism of what amounts to a bunch of shitty recordings, well...that's just dumb. sean isnt criticizing the songs...just the way they've been newly recorded, BECAUSE IT SOUNDS BAD. and frankly, much of Bonnie Prince Billy's revamped classics are boring and derivative, but that doesn't mean i don't love the guy and think he's a brilliant songwriter.
and personally, i don't think "knock your socks off" is too bad...sure it's cliche...but so is 95% of the stuff on these message boards |
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Dom
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2004 : 10:03:20
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sorry, i meant "a concept I wouldn't put past frank"...
if it is a concept, which is hard to deny with the whole frank black francis moniker which you guys so nonchalantly use to justify everything wrong with the album, it's a really fascinating concept in itself, and worth holding on to in "these times" of albums with failing resonance and even thinner heft as artistic pieces of merit. but the songs still blow. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2004 : 10:09:16
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i'm sticking to my guns on "knocked my socks off".. that is unexcusable.
unless it was written by Frank's grandfather
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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Bartholomew
= Cult of Ray =
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2004 : 10:11:08
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Dom,
You mentioned Bonnie Prince Billy... Do you have an advanced copy of his new duet album due out in late Jan? If so what's it sound like/compares to? Yay or nay on the quality? |
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JamesM
= Cult of Ray =
308 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2004 : 16:56:19
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Wait, wait, wait. The second half of FBF is shit and The Arcade Fire is great? A fun and interesting (if not all together coherent) is worse off than a second rate Talking Heads clone? Seriously, I'm a Frank hanger-on (anymore at least), and FBF did not crack my top 10 records this year, so uh, yeah. I guess this post is more levied against The Arcade Fire. Sorry!
Also, one of the dudes in that band looks like an uglier version of the kid from Napolean Dynamite.
-Jimmy M. |
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Dom
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 09:23:13
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James, man, it's cool if you don't like the Arcade Fire...obviously all of this is completely subjective. I have an unhealthy obsession with the Talking Heads, and maybe that would predicate my love of Arcade Fire, but in all honesty, I really don't see the similarity...you're talking about a band that relies almost completely on arrangements (Fire), because, yeah, their melodies are pretty damn simple...but as for the Heads, they thrived on minimalism...even Remain in Light, as bigger and bombastic as it sounds than anything before it, could be considered the combination of a few small parts. that's what made they're stage show so spectacular to watch: simplicity pushed to the complete extreme, taking a ten-piece to play things that Byrne and Eno could do on their own. Even the way Stop Making Sense progresses suggests a forced move from the Heads's trademark minimalism. I'm guess I'm just wondering where you see the comparison, because I'm honestly curious. In the voice?
As far as FBF goes, I'm not sure if I really understand what you're saying...but I really don't think the second disc is fun or coherent at all. Yeah, that's my opinion (and i'm a bit embarassed to have my top album of the year match pitchfork's...but i wrote it beforehand! don't hate me), but I think we need to stop acting like these rock gods will always be rock gods when they do dumb shit at a time when their influence should be most vital. Mick Jagger's solo album from last year? blows ass. Radiohead's new collection of short whatever the fuck they are videos? boring. the cure's new album?..ehhhh...Regardless about how you feel about these artists...they're in the ranks of Frank Black as far as influence goes. We need to question them, and their music, and their choices and maturity. I mean, fuck, have you heard Talking HEads's "Naked"...now THERE'S what a band dissolving sounds like. God, does it suck. And frankly, if David Byrne mutilated Psycho Killer or Born Under Punches, turning it into some kind of prog nightmare, I would not be happy...and I would seriously question why the fuck he would do that. And even if he had a good reason, it wouldn't stop the song from (hypothetically) sucking.
I really have no problem with people liking the second disc...I'm just hoping that all this blind reverence will stop getting in the way of criticizing the work of an artist who needs to prove himself once again.....Because if any new Pixies records sound anything like Bam Thwok (yes, I know it's Kim Deal's song), I'm gonna lose all hope. We need to stop "hanging-on" when there's a lot more artists out there that need our attention and money more than the second disc of FBF.
And i'm sorry if i offended any fans. |
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Dom
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 09:48:02
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..oh, and as far as how ugly the guy from Arcade Fire is..I agree...but no worries, he's married...so his lack of aesthetic quality won't ever affect his music or you.
I mean...THANK GOD his face isn't on the cover of the record. God only knows that would destroy the actual music. and just think of how ugly his children will be!! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
...by the way, I saw the Pixies in November. Charles has gotten hugely fatter and is still uglier than sin. must be why the scond disc of FBF stinks. |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 12:53:22
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Ugly is in the heart of the messageboarder.
I do miss that CT doesn't sing in Castillian anymore. His pronunciation was really strange (or maybe just an American strain of it I'm unused to) but fun to listen to.
--
Democracy is the unwiped ass of a devilish con game. |
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Zsolt G.
- FB Fan -
117 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 13:23:46
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Hey Dom, It's nice to harass a professional rather than the usual riff-raff that we get around here. To clear the air, I agree that FBF was a bad idea. However, I must ask what you're doing around here, if you don't like FB? I can't imagine this site is too much fun if you're not a fan. However, this pro/anti FBF shit has been stewing here for some time.
I must say though that I disagree with your assesment of FB as irrelevant. The new Mick Jagger record sucks? How about since the the 80's everything they've done has sucked. I think music reviews are irrelevant if the only thing they review is what might be cool. Nobody gave a shit about Johnny Cash till Rick Rubin made him play a bunch of gay-ass songs, and gave him some snappy album covers. Not one of these shitty rags or online publications would have wasted ink/bandwith on FBF, if there wasn't a Pixies reunion happening. It's ironic that he had to put out the worst record (he's kind of actually apologized for it) of his career to interest anybody. But you can't base a review of his career on a throwaway bonus disc, and as a journalist, you ought to dig a bit deeper. Just because Frank is no longer "hip" doesn't mean he's lost his edge. If you want weird, Cult of Ray is weird as shit. If you want alt-country that isn't pretentious as hell try any of his newer stuff. If you want punk-pop that's actually good, try his first Catholics record. Sorry but all of these records are much better than anything the Breeders ever did (and I like them too), but of course anything that Steve Albini's grubby little hands touch is automatically genius. Frank's catalogue requires you put your pretentions and Pixies-worship aside and appreciate it as honest, guilless, and quality growth of the work that he started in a band that was too cool for school. Now when he starts recording sound-poems with Yoko Ono, I will bite my tongue, but in the meantime I am still justifiably optimistic about the quality of any future product from him, despite the bump in the road called FBF. |
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Dom
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 14:42:42
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Zsolt, thanks, for the welcome that is. But i don't ever remember saying i don't like frank black. in fact, i'm a huge frank black fan, both of his solo catalog and, of course, of his time with the pixies.
i better mention that my comment about frank being ugly was uncalled for, but it was in response to the comment of the guy from the arcade fire being ugly, implying it as if it's another reason to not like the band. who the fuck cares? does it take away from the music? no. if it does, you have some major problems to sort out. and then, of course, someone gets offended about me calling frank ugly, when i was just trying to prove a point. this isn't necessarily directed at you, Zsolt, but I think there's way too many people getting way too defensive here.
I came to have a discussion about music. I like this artist and I really didn't like his recent output, and I want to know why someone would like it if they did. not to lambaste them, but to hear or be aware of something i haven't recognized in earlier listens. instead, it's just a bunch of "oh, he hates FBF....why the fuck would he hate it? it's FRANK BLACK! he must not know what he's talking about" (once again, this isn't directed at you Zsolt). can't we just accept that possibly disc two sucks ass? i can accept that you guys really like it.
as far as my mick jagger comment goes, i was just trying to make a point about these "legends" and their relevance today. frankly, the Pixies reunion was supremely awesome, but Frank Black as an artist right now isn't that relevant at all. and then he puts out FBF, and i want even more to question his relevance. because that's what it should all be about...we can't let these "legends" get off scott free...we need to question their work and ask if they still deserve our praise after we've gotten done praising their "legendary" work. all this blind worship is just plain gross, but it's all i've seen here.
also, the cure and mick jagger didn't rerecord new versions of their classic songs. in fact, Charles deserves MORE inspection because of his choice. he's practically inviting us to examine our own obsessions...to examine our idea of whatever a "canon" of rock music should be. for that, i give him some ups, but when it comes down to it, it sounds, like i've said before, BAD.
so, i came here because i like frank black and i like his music. just so happens that one of my fellow staff members was getting ripped apart, so i wanted to defend him, because i agreed with him and i felt like he was being harpooned for dumb reasons. yes, dumb. i just want to talk about music like the subjective stuff it is...not as some set in stone series of bullet points about who's most important in rock history and why we should keep championing that person's works.
PLEASE someone tell me WHY they like the second disc if they do, especially enough to get all hot under the collar if someone doesn't like it.
oh, and Zsolt, sorry man, but Steve Albini's lost it. he lives about ten minutes north of me. he's a prick. and The New Year was pretty bad (in my opinion  )...as well as the newest Godspeed. |
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Zsolt G.
- FB Fan -
117 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 15:46:35
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| Are you calling me ugly? Well watch out, because I live in Chicago too, and I'll kick your ass. I think Albini lost most of his cred after that Bush incident, and has been extra bitchy since then, in an attempt to try and win it back. Anyways, I get where you're coming from, didn't mean to lay it on too thick. I hate arguing music anyways. Honestly, despite the unsolicited hype(I doubt this was promoted any more than previous solo efforts, in fact it's on an indie)it got, FBF was meant to be forgotten. Case-in-point, much like that horrendous live album he made while still on 4AD, not a single reviewer bothered trashing that, because nobody cared at the time. In fact he was butchering the material from the venerable solo debut and Teenager of the Year. |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 19:55:52
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| when internet rock critics start posting to your thread, your thread has jumped the shark. |
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Dom
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2004 : 11:35:28
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| like what the Fonz did? |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2005 : 20:04:49
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Yes, that's kind of the point.
"Signature quotes are so lame." --Nathan |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2463 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2005 : 05:17:14
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| Which 'live' album? |
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Bluish Black
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 02:14:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Dom
PLEASE someone tell me WHY they like the second disc if they do, especially enough to get all hot under the collar if someone doesn't like it.
I like the second disk even though I was not expecting to.
I bought FBF for the first disk out of historical interest and it is fine it fits in nicely in sequence before the Purple Tapes (Come on Pilgrim and the Pixies (released on Cooking Vinyl)). I also appreciate Frank's sleave notes which give the whole disk an historical setting.
However I listen to the second disk more. I have it on as background music quite often and it is akin to a set of remix tracks you sometimes get with greatest hits disks these days. The fact the remixes are invariably not as good as the originals does not mean you cannot enjoy listening to them. I like listening to them and I also appreciate Frank's consideration to the fans that they should have a value for money product. Also I think his vocals sound particularly good on the second disk, and they remind me of a particularly good solo show I saw him do in Camden, London at around that time.
quote:
Originally posted by Dom
sorry man, but Steve Albini's lost it. he lives about ten minutes north of me. he's a prick. and The New Year was pretty bad (in my opinion
I saw Shellac in London December 2004 and they were ace. They sold out the Scala four nights on the run and the show I saw was the coolest thing I saw last year. The way they engage the audience with those question and answer interludes they do between the songs at those shows is one of the funniest things I've seen. OK not all down to Steve Albini but he was definitly part of the vibe.
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Dom
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 07:19:50
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
Yes, that's kind of the point.
the point is that Fonz did it? huh?
and with what Bluish Black said about remixes not being, inevitably, as good as the the original but still being able to enjoy them...well, yeah, of course...in fact, it's more than possible to like the remix even better...but that really has nothing to do with what i was saying or what i was trying to address in the first place
but that's really cool about being able to see Shellac....i guess i was just talking about him as a producer lately...he's done some unbelievable stuff, but once again, i think he needs to be questioned, like Frank does, for what he's doing now, because most of it's utterly questionable |
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Bluish Black
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
108 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 08:55:34
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I have been back through the thread to see what you were "trying to address in the first place" and all I can see is that you think the FBF treated disk sucks and that you want the forum to lighten up and not criticise your colleague Sean Ford's review of FBF.
If you think the treated disk sucks fine thats your opinion.
However Sean Ford wrote "...the Ocean of Irrevelance that Frank now inhabits...", and this is a Frank Black forum. I am surprised that you expect Frank Black forum members to take that comment lying down. We are on this forum because we think Frank Black's music is great. We don't expect everyone to like it but we are not going to agree with being told that we are listening to irrelevent shit! |
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Dom
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 09:53:27
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except there's a difference between discussing the music and just getting offended because anything bad was said...yeahm "ocean of irrelevence was a tad over the top...a statement too easily made...but just because this is a frank black forum doesn't mean it indelibly justifies blind reverence or personal offense...
yeah, i'm defending sean because i agreed with him...but seriously, if you're going to get this offended by one review or by stuff i'm saying, then yes, you need lighten up
all i've been trying to say is that we need to question frank black's relevence now, and stop all this bullshit idol worship...i believe i've said that quite alot in this thread...being my "point"...but you failed to see that because you were too infuriated by some bad words toward frank...man, get a life
this wasn't begun as any kind of tarry of insults, but now it has because poor frank black had some bad criticism put his way! oh no! you had something renmotely constructive to say about how you like the second disc because it can act as pleasant background music, and how his voice sounds great...and that's fine, that's actually a way of looking at the disc that i hadn't thought about...but then you lost me after the shellac thing...plus, i think maybe you should reread the thread...but i doubt you could do it objectively at all, because i've supposedly insulted you and frank SO much.
plus, i don't think i ever called frank black's music irrelevent shit...i just think we need to question frank black's relevence...his idol standing. besides being with the pixies again, what has he done within the past five years that deserves such accolades and worship as the pixies obviously do? i'm sure some people would have examples, and that's fine....but instead there's just a whole lotta HOW DARE HE DEFEND SUCH FRANK INSULTS...
i realize this is a frank black forum...but there's also room for discussing things besides frank...why aren't you up in arms against that, Bluish Black?
but this is all ridiculous, and i'm sorry if i offended anyone...iu'm sure everyone's all irked and tired of this crap...so it can just be ended here: you're right Bluish Black, what was i thinking?
and by the way, just because i write music reviews doesn't mean i can't talk about the music in a thread populated by others that aren't "music reviewers"...because i write about music doesn't make my opinion any more valid than the next person that doesn't write about music...i just liek music a lot and i want to talk about it...sorry for invading your precious non-music-writer space...it was a bit compelling while it lasted
and the jab at the arcade fire dude being ugly was funny...plus, you ever see THom Yorke? what a horrendous looking fellow. but, fuck, if you say anything bad about his music i'll get really offended. |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 13:15:56
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quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by VoVat
Yes, that's kind of the point.
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the point is that Fonz did it? huh?
Well, that's the origin of the phrase "jump the shark," which has become pretty common in this day and age. I'm sure you probably know that, but I thought it was a bit odd to point out this origin for no reason.
quote:
yeahm "ocean of irrelevence was a tad over the top...a statement too easily made...but just because this is a frank black forum doesn't mean it indelibly justifies blind reverence or personal offense...
I don't really think the phrase is THAT bad, but it's kind of insulting in that Frank is relevant to US. Maybe we're islands in this ocean of irrelevance, though.
Overall, I don't mind bad reviews, but I DO mind inaccurate ones.
quote:
i just think we need to question frank black's relevence...his idol standing. besides being with the pixies again, what has he done within the past five years that deserves such accolades and worship as the pixies obviously do?
Well, I think Dog in the Sand might be stronger than any individual Pixies album. That's just my opinion, though, and I realize I'm in the minority. I guess the thing is that Frank hasn't RECEIVED much in the way of accolades and worship as of late, but that doesn't mean he doesn't DESERVE them.
"Reunion? Shit union!" |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 14:03:57
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So, Dom, top 60, eh? Crazy.
Opinion, please: Magnoliec Electric Co. is visiting my little 'burgh. Is this a must see show? I've barely heard any of the mans music. Also why? are coming. cLOUDDEAD is pretty lost on me, should I give it another go? |
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Dom
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2005 : 05:36:23
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yeah, the top 60 thing was fun...maybe pushing it, but a lot of fun to be a part of, and here's to hoping we got some really good albums some press that they normally wouldn't see, well, next to the ones we've heard to death
and it depends with Magnolia Electric Co...are you into curling up in a corner in a smoke-filled room and getting cradled thusly? then, yeah, i'd recommend it wholeheartedly. i saw iron & wine, and i got severely cradled, one of the best shows i've ever seen...so Jason Molina's a lot liek that, only his songs sound even more all the same. but they sound good...i wouldn't pass it up.
as far as why? goes...eh...oaklandazulasylum was hit and miss for me....but Doseone is the freakin' MAN, and cLOUDDEAD should be seen just for him alone. have you heard Boom Bip and Doseone's "Circle?" or even the new Subtle album? I've heard Deep Puddle Dynamics is pretty spectacular too, and that even has Slug on it. but anyway, i dunno about where you're from, but it's been hard to find Dose around here, so take it while you got it. although why? did have a pretty cool collaboration with Fog...so it's not like the guy's nothing but a horribly annoying voice... |
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Frank Black Francis review: CMG
