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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
 Posted - 10/08/2004 : 17:58:34
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Just woke up this morning to find out that Kenneth Bigely (the British hostage held in Iraq) has been beheaded, and it has given me a pretty angry start to the morning.
I feel very sad for him, and the rest of the guys who have suffered death in this way over the past few months, but at the same time you have to ask 'what are they doing over there in the first place?' Why on earth would they want to risk being killed in such a way, is it just because they see a big dollar sign and greed takes them to such a danger zone?
The anger I feel this morning is not towards these people, depite the fact that I think they have acted in a very silly way... my anger is towards Tony Blair, the British Prime Minister (that's a very very polite title to give him at the moment). I just hope what happened yesterday is more pressure that will lead him to resign, face the international court and be charged with war crimes. There is now no question that the invasion of Iraq was completely illegal and that Tony Blair lied to the British people, and people are dying because of his lies (not just British, but Americans, Iraqis and other people caught up in the madness).
For a guy who could have become a great British person (had he refused to back the US led invasion) he has completely fucked it up and should face the music in the international courts. It disgusts me that this fool can still be sitting in the most important seat in Britain and just hope that something (anything) happens to remove him from power.
Just the good ole boys, never meaning no harm,
that all you ever saw
been in trouble with the law,
since the day they were born |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2004 : 03:49:27
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and replace him with just who exactly?
i personally don't beleive he did much wrong, it's easy to now say he did, but at the time the consensus was generally for war (apart from the usual people who anti-war protest at anything)... it's a shame what's happening with iraq now, but what can you do? you certainly can't just pull out yet... personally i blame france for this whole mess.
The Monkey Helper has arrived http://www.monkeyhelper.co.uk (that is my band) |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2004 : 04:17:52
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People were for the war because Blair led us to believe that Saddam posed a serious threat with his WMD.... what he did is inexcusable, there is no way he, Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Howard etc should get away with it. They used Sept 11th to find a reason to take out Saddam.... People say that the world is a better place without Saddam, and that is true but it ain't US / UK / Aus governments place to dictate who runs a foreign country. And for a start I am sure the world would be a better place without Bush in power.
As for who could replace him.... thats a tricky one. Certainly the British people wouldn't want the Tories back in power, and it would be a miracle in the next election for them to win it (they really are the only contenders and they don't pose a remotely serious threat). Gordon Brown seems to be the alternative.... but I think that is not likely either. It really is a shite state of affairs.
Just the good ole boys, never meaning no harm,
that all you ever saw
been in trouble with the law,
since the day they were born |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2004 : 04:28:53
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i disagree obviously. the worst thing possible for our (*MY*) country would be the tories getting back in power. their policies are a complete fucking disgrace. diabolical. and going from your argument, most of the labour party, certainly the main figures, lied to us about the cause for war... so you wouldn't want any of them in power either...
i think we're screwed if anyone other than blair runs the country at the moment.
The Monkey Helper has arrived http://www.monkeyhelper.co.uk (that is my band) |
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gracie
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
573 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2004 : 06:35:15
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I think Gordan Brown would do a pretty good job actually. Less influenced by outside factors. Failing that Boris Johnson is the obvious choice (only joking, although i do like him).
I do agree that these bedheadings are just awful, if it was a clean cut itwouldn't be as bad but most of the time it looks they are sawing with a blunt stakeknife.What a terrible way to die, how are his family ever going to come to terms with that?
The whole war is a mess, with no easy solution but Bush & Blair should hang their head in shame. At least Blair is on the way out what whats going to happen with Bush? I've read that Kerry is ahead in the polls but Bush didn't let that stop him win the last election. |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2004 : 07:50:57
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Everyone likes Boris, we can't help it, he's so funny! Howard is a tit though, I don't know how the conservatives think they're getting anywhere focusing on europe, appealing to the stuffy capitalistic xenophobes, how secure I would feel under that government. I don't oppose the party based on History (my dad's gf said that it doesn't matter how you look at it to the average man they took home more in their pay slip each month under the tories, and sadly it's all the average man cares about) but on the lack of focus and the fact they obviously haven't got a fucking clue! It's like they sat round and made a list of things people would like, rather than what people know is good for the country.
No one, I mean no one I knew or know agreed with the war, no one. It seemed futile and like Mr Blair was being lead by the (tiny) bollocks into a bad situation, we wanted him to grow a bigger pair and say no, the justification was weak and the consensus just wasn't there. It's been a big bloody mess and for what? Nurk this all pisses me off, and I don't want him for another four years, he's a sneaky shit as far as I am concerned, watching the labour conference made me want to puke, name dropping his little success stories and his jilted base promises, blurgh. I have no Faith in Mr Blair, none at all.
I mean, politics is always a tricky one, what is right isn't always popular and I'd rather someone just be honest with me and explain it clearly, none of this "we won't raise taxes we will make NHS/Schooling?public services better" yadda yadda yadda because invariably the taxes go up and the services stay cruddy, too much middle management and totally uneeded legislation and red tape, I'd vote for anyone who said yeah taxes will go up but we'll improve so much by doing this it'll create jobs and make a stabler society people will be educated and looked after, old people won't die of hypothermia and basic services will all run fine but this don't come for free so this is what we're taking and from where, I'd like someone to look at the environmental decline and the energy wastage and natural resource glut and figure out a way of introducing sustainability, I''d like someone to look at the businesses in this country that are getting fucked, tourism and farming, work out schemes to benefit farmers based on more organic methods (thats organic in terms of local demand rather than chemical usage) I mean, whats the point in growing food in the south of the country, sending it to scotland to be packaged and then back down south for sale, am I the only one who see's a problem here? To look where money is being mis-spent (in the NHS especially it is ATROCIOUS the money spent on agency staff (of which I am one) is awesome, rather than increase the wages of health care workers throughout the board and cutting the middle man they'd rather portray us all as dangerous) a fairer taxation system (yeah fuck it, tax the rich more, especially the ridiculously rich fuckers who award their own bonuses) and stop pumping money into pointless wars and failing to give reason why, stop making scape goats and breeding a sick sort of race-hate which seems to have escelatd after this war, accept the world as a whole and stop hiding on this island and...
er oops.
sorry.
I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2004 : 09:42:44
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I'd like to see the Liberal Democrats do well in the next election. I like their policies, although I'm not sure that they're ready for government yet. For the left-centre leaning 'average guy' I think the party are a pretty good bet - I agree with Tre, there's so much electioneering and "we'll make you better off"ing these days that it's sort of nice to see someone bite the bullet and say, yes, we have to raise taxes, but we've identified exactly whats going wrong and thats where we'll put the money.
The Lib Dems were, I believe, the only major party to oppose the war in Iraq which will already stand them in good stead, and I reckon they have a fair chance at taking over official Opposition status next year. I just don't see how anyone could vote Conservative at the moment outside of the upper classes and Daily Mail-reading Little Englanders, but I think Labour will get it (with a reduced margin of victory) because they actually have done some things OK. I respect Gordon Brown and what he's acheived, and I think he'd make a better PM than Blair - in whom the public have lost faith.
C'mon, its that or UKIP.
"You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?"
"Yes, once..." |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2004 : 12:03:42
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For me ´left´ and ´right´ are just there to obscure the fact there are more than two sides to every debate, as many as there are minds on the planet actually.
And Tre, no need to apologise.
--
Jódete, tío,
Que se joda tu hermana,
Que se joda tu hermano,
Que se joda tu madre,
Que se joda tu tía,
¡Porque soy policia!
Que se jodas, currante,
Que se joda tu perro,
Que se joda tu hijo,
Que se joda tu amante,
No me pidas razónes,
Soy el Hombre ¡cojones! |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2004 : 12:19:46
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heh I ranted, I could go on forever I really *really* could so it's best to let me feel foolish most of the time
I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2004 : 13:42:30
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quote:
Originally posted by bumblebeeboy2
i disagree obviously. the worst thing possible for our (*MY*) country would be the tories getting back in power. their policies are a complete fucking disgrace. diabolical. and going from your argument, most of the labour party, certainly the main figures, lied to us about the cause for war... so you wouldn't want any of them in power either...
i think we're screwed if anyone other than blair runs the country at the moment.
The Monkey Helper has arrived http://www.monkeyhelper.co.uk (that is my band)
Just thought that I'd remark that I am no fan of the tories and my argument was no pro tory.
Just the good ole boys, never meaning no harm,
that all you ever saw
been in trouble with the law,
since the day they were born |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2004 : 13:48:47
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quote:
No one, I mean no one I knew or know agreed with the war, no one. It seemed futile and like Mr Blair was being lead by the (tiny) bollocks into a bad situation, we wanted him to grow a bigger pair and say no, the justification was weak and the consensus just wasn't there.
I don't follow British politics (hell, I have enough trouble trying to follow politics in my own country), but I really do get the impression that Blair would follow the United States in ANYTHING.
"Signature quotes are so lame." --Nathan |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2004 : 13:56:31
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The Lib Dems surely are going to be in a much stronger position next year come the election due to the fact that alot of people back home have lost faith in Adolf Blair, but are also not prepared to vote for the Tories. They'll never win it though...
I'm pretty out of touch with the goings on back home, been here for a while now and don't follow whats going on in British politics.... but I know that Blair should be held accountable for his decisions. Tre, I agree with you, no-one I knew agreed with the war, pretty much everyone was against it..... I don't believe that there was a majority for the war at all, thats bullshit as most people were pissed that we were sucking up to the Yanks.
Just the good ole boys, never meaning no harm,
that all you ever saw
been in trouble with the law,
since the day they were born |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2004 : 14:11:51
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I kind of tend to think that if they had found WMD's or any other of the reasons the government used to justify and 'sell' the war, then I wouldn't have minded so much. But seeing as the only thing they've got out of it is a pathetic old man hiding in a hole in the ground, you can see why people are so angry. Not to mention the way we've royally screwed up rebuilding the infrastructure and imposing our democratic values on the people of Iraq.
"You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?"
"Yes, once..." |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2004 : 14:17:07
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amen to that,
I still don't think the IF is enough though, it's like, we're going to lock up all youths from council estates and underprivelaged backgrounds because they might be criminals at some point, that wouldn't stand so why should this? If there was conclusive proof of a threat or a violoation then it would have been justified but to mix excuses and change standpoints as each excuse falls through has earnt mr Blair no brownie points.
And yeah Vovat, I get that impression too, he's tried recently to make up for his lack of balls in this matter by saying that America is encouraging Britain to abandon Europe and Europe to abandon America, it's not washing though.
I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
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slaveish
= Cult of Ray =
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2004 : 23:49:52
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| Isn't Blair pulling the troops out of Iraq? Bush pathetically tries to claim that we have a "coalition." yet what few countries have sent troops there (and at far few numbers than the U.S.) are gradually pulling out. I can't wait until we get out of there. What a mess and an international embarassment. |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2004 : 01:56:38
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I agree Slaveish.... this is one fuck up that Britain should be completely embarrased about. Our credibility around the world is going to plummet, and rightly so if you ask me.
Just the good ole boys, never meaning no harm,
that all you ever saw
been in trouble with the law,
since the day they were born |
Edited by - Stuart on 10/10/2004 01:59:02 |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2004 : 03:58:23
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we had credibility?
I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
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cindy lou
- FB Fan -
141 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2004 : 04:14:43
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don't worry everyone we are all idiots!!! every single last one of us. don't matter where your from. we the folk are fucking A stupid! good luck! the human race will sort each other out. no problem there.
he he ah aha hheiiiiiiiiiiiii
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2004 : 11:12:50
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I tend to think that any reasons like WMDs have been precluded by we had already fought one war to remove Hussein and then, well, left him in power and even allowed him use of his gunships to quell a Kurdish uprising.
And as regards pulling out or whathaveyou, this is only the beginning. With the looting of the museums, the Iraqi cultural calendar has been reset to zero and the first step towards dissolving a people is always to do just that. Syria watch out.
--
Jódete, tío,
Que se joda tu hermana,
Que se joda tu hermano,
Que se joda tu madre,
Que se joda tu tía,
¡Porque soy policia!
Que se jodas, currante,
Que se joda tu perro,
Que se joda tu hijo,
Que se joda tu amante,
No me pidas razónes,
Soy el Hombre ¡cojones! |
Edited by - Newo on 10/10/2004 11:13:28 |
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harringk
- FB Fan -
USA
202 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2004 : 09:44:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Stuart
I feel very sad for him, and the rest of the guys who have suffered death in this way over the past few months, but at the same time you have to ask 'what are they doing over there in the first place...
The anger I feel this morning is not towards these people, depite the fact that I think they have acted in a very silly way... my anger is towards Tony Blair
This tells me all I need to know about you. How about some anger towards the fucking animals who did the beheading you jackass. |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2004 : 17:06:58
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quote:
Originally posted by harringk
quote:
Originally posted by Stuart
I feel very sad for him, and the rest of the guys who have suffered death in this way over the past few months, but at the same time you have to ask 'what are they doing over there in the first place...
The anger I feel this morning is not towards these people, depite the fact that I think they have acted in a very silly way... my anger is towards Tony Blair
This tells me all I need to know about you. How about some anger towards the fucking animals who did the beheading you jackass.
No need to behave like such a jackass yourself. Of course I am angry with the people who did the beheading, it is cruel and barbaric.... whatever point they had to make completely loses any steam or credibility when they start executing innocent people. But in my opinion Blair and Bush have more blood on their hands then these people, and therefore my focus was on them and not the hostage takers.
Just because I didn't include it in my message, doesn't mean that I don't feel any anger. Just by feeling sad for the guys being executed means that I feel anger towards the guys that did this to them. However as I said before those guys knew the risks they were taking and they chose to potentially put themselves in that situation, something which I do not understand.
Man, try and develop the ability to read between the lines before you make a personal attack.... you really aren't very intelligent are you?
Just the good ole boys, never meaning no harm,
that all you ever saw
been in trouble with the law,
since the day they were born |
Edited by - Stuart on 10/11/2004 17:11:15 |
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harringk
- FB Fan -
USA
202 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2004 : 17:45:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Stuart
Man, try and develop the ability to read between the lines before you make a personal attack....
Reading between the lines is unnecessary when dealing with someone with such a flawed view of the world as yourself. The fact that you failed to mention any anger or condemnation toward the attackers until you were called on it speaks volumes (and no it isn't implied, there are many who share the same views as yourself who will not condemn that beheading). The fact that you still have to qualify that condemnation with the statement that Bush and Blair have more blood on their hands than the attackers speaks volumes. |
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2004 : 01:52:01
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quote:
and no it isn't implied, there are many who share the same views as yourself who will not condemn that beheading
I have not heard of one person outside of Fullajah, Baghdad who will not condemn this beheading.
Of course Blair and Bush have more blood on their hands than these attackers - they are responsible for a much larger number of innocent/civilian deaths.
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2004 : 03:32:43
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quote:
Originally posted by harringk
quote:
Originally posted by Stuart
Man, try and develop the ability to read between the lines before you make a personal attack....
Reading between the lines is unnecessary when dealing with someone with such a flawed view of the world as yourself. The fact that you failed to mention any anger or condemnation toward the attackers until you were called on it speaks volumes (and no it isn't implied, there are many who share the same views as yourself who will not condemn that beheading). The fact that you still have to qualify that condemnation with the statement that Bush and Blair have more blood on their hands than the attackers speaks volumes.
I have just had a brief look at the other posters here, and there doesn't seem to be anyone else who directed anger towards the hostage takers.... thats doesn't mean that people don't care about it. I think its pretty damn obvious that the overwhelming majority of people in the world are disgusted with what they are doing, like alot of people are disgusted with the slaughter of innocents that is occuring due to this illegal war.
I am more angry with Bush and Blair, this didn't need to happen... more people are dying (on both sides) as a result of their false evidence that sent them to war than the hostage takers beheadings.
So I have "a flawed view of the world..." thats quite funny coming from a Yank. You really are talking utter nonsense.... are you a former banned forum member by any chance?
Just the good ole boys, never meaning no harm,
that all you ever saw
been in trouble with the law,
since the day they were born |
Edited by - Stuart on 10/12/2004 03:48:01 |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2004 : 03:48:46
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Harringk quit picking will you, nice civilised discussions tend to degrade into bitch fights when you pip in.
Of course it goes without saying, the way those men were killed is barbaric, there is no justification for what they did and whatever message they have, whatever cause they fight is obscured by the horrific manner in which they killed innocents. No one has sympathy for them, everyone is angry about it this whole conversation is not a focus on them though, it's a focus on the issues that resulted in this situation, the politics that lead to this. For which, our respective heads of govenment are very much at fault.
So are you going to join in or carry on picking at the smallest of things and flying off the handle?
I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2004 : 03:55:56
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Tre, you couldn't have said it better
Just the good ole boys, never meaning no harm,
that all you ever saw
been in trouble with the law,
since the day they were born |
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harringk
- FB Fan -
USA
202 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2004 : 10:04:39
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Ok well I'm glad to see you still have enough common sense to condemn instead of sympathize with the beheaders (is that a word?).
So I'll leave you to your unintelligible rant on illegal wars and misleading evidence. It's not worth arguing anymore. 25 years down the road when we're looking back on this time period I'll start a thread and we'll have a better perspective for a real discussion. |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2004 : 11:57:02
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have a nice thread, so anyway, British politics....
I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2004 : 17:34:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Newo
I tend to think that any reasons like WMDs have been precluded by we had already fought one war to remove Hussein and then, well, left him in power and even allowed him use of his gunships to quell a Kurdish uprising.
And as regards pulling out or whathaveyou, this is only the beginning. With the looting of the museums, the Iraqi cultural calendar has been reset to zero and the first step towards dissolving a people is always to do just that. Syria watch out.
Do you think the war could extend to Syria and Iran? I think the Coalition have their hands full with Iraq alone, if Iran and Syria came onto their agenda then it would be too much of a stretch at this point in time. I seriously hope that doesn't happen as then I think we could be looking at the makings of another world war. I think the draft would then certainly come into effect, which would be very bad. A few people have suggested that the Iraq situation could be the start of a big wider war, but I don't think so.
If Syria and Iran were to be attacked that could have possible consequences on the Korean Peninsula, as North Korea would see the US as having their hands full and then maybe tempted to take advantage of the situation. Who knows....
One of my best mates in UK is talking about travelling at the moment, starting off in Syria and then heading to Iran. I personally think he is crazy doing this at this point in time. I am sure these countries are beautiful and majority of people are decent folk and all that but in the current situation I think it would be too risky.
Just the good ole boys, never meaning no harm,
that all you ever saw
been in trouble with the law,
since the day they were born |
Edited by - Stuart on 10/16/2004 02:37:25 |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2004 : 18:16:44
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quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by harringk
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Stuart
I feel very sad for him, and the rest of the guys who have suffered death in this way over the past few months, but at the same time you have to ask 'what are they doing over there in the first place...
The anger I feel this morning is not towards these people, depite the fact that I think they have acted in a very silly way... my anger is towards Tony Blair
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This tells me all I need to know about you. How about some anger towards the fucking animals who did the beheading you jackass.
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No need to behave like such a jackass yourself. Of course I am angry with the people who did the beheading, it is cruel and barbaric.... whatever point they had to make completely loses any steam or credibility when they start executing innocent people. But in my opinion Blair and Bush have more blood on their hands then these people, and therefore my focus was on them and not the hostage takers.
I do think you phrased yourself poorly. You seemed to imply that you felt NO anger toward the beheaders, but only toward Blair. Now, I didn't think this was the case when I first read it, nor do I think it's the case now, but I don't think you worded it as well as you could have. You also referred to the behavior of the murderers as "silly," which probably isn't a very good word to use in the situation. I do agree with your main point, mind you. I just think you did come off as slightly callous.
"Signature quotes are so lame." --Nathan |
Edited by - VoVat on 10/13/2004 18:17:25 |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2004 : 01:12:06
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Vovat, I have worded it a little bizarrely and you have also misunderstood me (which is my fault)... it was written in the morning just after I had woken up. I was not claiming that the murderers were silly, I was claiming that the people who go to Iraq to make money are silly because they seem to be putting money in front of their own safety. I really cannot understand why they would want to take such huge risks.... money is not that important.
I should have just written, 'The anger I feel is mostly directed towards Tony Blair.' Thats what I meant, and of course that I feel very sad for the guys who have been murdered.
In my original post I make no reference to the murderers, I just assumed people would know that I completely disagree with what the hostage takers are doing, and think their acts are cruel and depraved. The focus was pretty much on my anger towards Blair.
Apologies if I seem callous, really I was not intending to in anyway whatsoever, it is my fault for not checking the wording of my post. Occasionally I write posts and don't read over them before I hit the send button. A good example of this is in the post above yours, which in fact looks like it was written by Newo, but most of it in fact was written by myself.... I put my text in the wrong place.
Just the good ole boys, never meaning no harm,
that all you ever saw
been in trouble with the law,
since the day they were born |
Edited by - Stuart on 10/14/2004 04:27:46 |
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harringk
- FB Fan -
USA
202 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2004 : 10:20:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Stuart
I was not claiming that the murderers were silly, I was claiming that the people who go to Iraq to make money are silly because they seem to be putting money in front of their own safety. I really cannot understand why they would want to take such huge risks.... money is not that important.
I know I said I was leaving, but I guess I just can't help myself.
Stuart you make a wild assumption in that quote. Did the thought ever occur to you that not everybody is motivated by money? There are plenty of workers over there that just want to help people. Not everybody supporting the troops are evil baby-killers like your side likes to portray.
I know it doesn't get much (if any) press, but most of the country is quite peacefull and the reconstruction is going very well in these areas. Schools are being built, businesses are re-opening, and the Iraqi's in these areas are cooperating gladly with the troops and non-military support and are in fact very grateful. Do you see how to some people that might be a satisfying and enjoyable endeavor regardless of the money involved?
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2004 : 18:37:01
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I can see what you are saying. If you read the quote it says "the people who go to Iraq to make money." I am sure not everyone is motivated by money... sure a small minority of people are going over there for reasons to help the Iraqi people. However I honestly think that's a small minority. I really think that a larger proportion of people are working over there as they see the big dollar sign, they can make alot of cash quickly from working a brief stint in the danger zone, and they are prepared to put their lives at risk in order to make that money.
I don't understand what you mean by 'not everybody supporting the troops are evil baby killers.' Can you explain? Are you saying that I think the think the workers over there are evil? This is not what I think at all, I think they are very brave people (there is no way I'd have the courage to go anywhere near that region), but at the same time a little silly if they have gone over there purely for financial reasons. Again I am not clear what you mean by this statement so I'll leave it at that. I can see how people see the rewarding side of helping the Iraqis, but in reality I still think it is a very small minority who are going there purely for those reasons.
I have taught a small number of Iraqis in Beijing and find them to be very very nice people.... same with Iranians and Libyans.... People who in the west have a reputation for being extremist fanatics. I agree with you that the western press doesn't go into a great deal of detail of how the Iraqis in some parts are grateful for the help they are being given. The western press (CNN, BBC) tends to focus more on the angry militants who are fighting for their freedom against the western powers, in an attempt to brainwash the people of the west that the people in these countries are evil and crazy. I recently read one of John Simpsons biographies which largely focuses on the BBC (he is the BBC reporter who often finds himself in the war zones). He has reported many anti US demonstrations in the middle east, whereby the people in the streets burn the US flag, dummies of Bush and Blair and are very vocal in their disaprovals. On the TV it looks as if these people are fucking crazy, but he said that in reality that is camera trickery and that in fact the people have not been threatening in the slightest, and treat him with a great deal of respect. It shows how the western press are very very manipulative, in order to increase negative opinions against these people..... but unfortunately I think a lot of people in the west watch and believe that shit.
Do you really think that the majority of people working in Iraq are doing so because they want to help the iraqi people? In an ideal world I think this is possible, but the world we live in is far from ideal.... to a large extent I think cash is the motivating factor.
Just the good ole boys, never meaning no harm,
that all you ever saw
been in trouble with the law,
since the day they were born |
Edited by - Stuart on 10/14/2004 18:59:47 |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 09:33:13
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Okay Stuart nice forgery attempt, I´m onto you. Sure I think Syria and Iran are on the way: history may not seem to be that imporatant to control, but the sacking of the Iraqi libraries and museums is comparable to the burning of the Great Library in Alexandria by the Romans and would indicate longterm plans for the area.
--
Jódete, tío,
Que se joda tu hermana,
Que se joda tu hermano,
Que se joda tu madre,
Que se joda tu tía,
¡Porque soy policia!
Que se jodas, currante,
Que se joda tu perro,
Que se joda tu hijo,
Que se joda tu amante,
No me pidas razónes,
Soy el Hombre ¡cojones! |
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harringk
- FB Fan -
USA
202 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 10:02:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Stuart
I don't understand what you mean by 'not everybody supporting the troops are evil baby killers.' Can you explain?...
It was a poorly worded sentence. What I was trying to convey is that the anti-war people tend to demonize all of the troops and those that support the troops get lumped in with them.
quote:
Originally posted by Stuart
I can see how people see the rewarding side of helping the Iraqis, but in reality I still think it is a very small minority who are going there purely for those reasons...
I think we just disagree on this point. There are certainly people who go over there just for the money, and people who just go because they want to help out. I would guess that the people who are in it for the money are in the minority. |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 19:47:50
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quote:
Originally posted by harringk
There are certainly people who go over there just for the money, and people who just go because they want to help out. I would guess that the people who are in it for the money are in the minority.
call me cynical but I think thats a very idealistic viewpoint and I'd bet the other way.
I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
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