| Author |
 Topic  |
|
the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
 Posted - 01/18/2003 : 10:45:43
|
From Alternet....
"To those who scoff at the idea that the government could have had foreknowledge of or complicity in the September 11 attacks, attacks have been faked or manufactured plenty of times before, usually to maneuver the public into supporting a war they would otherwise oppose. The Nazi party, for instance, most likely set fire to the Reichstag building in order to pin the crime on the communists and galvanize the people behind their police-state tactics. They also forged a fake battle to justify their invasion of Poland (2). Sure, you say, but the Nazis were like that. Unfortunately, similar incidents pop up in the U.S.'s recent past, as well. Frequently mentioned examples include Pearl Harbor – which many, such as Day of Deceit author Robert Stinnett, feel was allowed to happen to prompt America's entry into World War II – and the weird Gulf of Tonkin incident.
Researchers discussing this issue often cite an interesting find: an internal Pentagon document from the early 1960s, which appears in James Bamford's book on military subterfuge, Body of Secrets, and puts the lie to the contention that the government would never manufacture incidents or attack its own people to lead the country to war. The Operation Northwoods memo is the result of a brainstorming session on ways to help sell military action in Cuba by fabricating or committing acts of violence and blaming them on Fidel Castro. Among its suggestions: shoot down a plane full of college students, sink an American ship ("casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation"), or rig astronaut John Glenn's rocket to explode. The Northwoods memo invites us to rethink what some in the government might be capable of not only in terms of September 11 but also the Kennedy assassination. After all, if spectacular murders of people like John Glenn are conceivable, is it so fantastic to plot the assassination of a sitting president?"
I personally don't find this far fetched at all.
Bush Jr. bought and lied his way into the Presidency.
He paid everyone off to shut the fuck up with a $300 check from Uncle Sam, and for the most part, we did.
It's such a comic cliche that people can't even believe that it is. It's so right in their face, they are blind to it.
What was the point of flying two planes into the World Trade Center? What did it accomplish? What is it exactly the "Terrorists" want? How come that has never been explained?
Countless civil rights violations are taking place as we speak. If you speak out against the government nowadays, you could very easily be labeled a traitor.
There WILL be a military action in Iraq. There is nothing that will stop it. The so-called 12 empty "chemical" warheads found in a tool shed in Iraq is a non-issue.
"Keep you doped with religion, and sex, and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see"
Ahh, fuck it. I'm going to watch "Joe Millionaire"
|
Edited by - the swimmer on 01/18/2003 11:01:41 |
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2003 : 16:39:03
|
this is such bullshit.. you're welcome to your opinion, but this is the most fucking idiotic thing i've read on this site and, being welcome to my own opinion as well, i find it offensive.
offensive to my intelligence. and offensive everyone who suffered because of this..
yeah, the US "planned" this.. i mean, look how great it's been for our country (especially NY).. and the world for that matter..
i occasionally eat chateaubriand. |
 |
|
|
L. Barlow
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
64 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2003 : 17:08:04
|
ive heard this theory for ages and quite frankly (aww!) its a load of horse shit. wise up. go read krist novoselics journals on eyesadrift.com, now theres opinions i can count on...
;D |
|
|
|
Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2003 : 18:02:55
|
you're an idiot, go make yourself a new tinfoil hat. |
|
|
|
the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2003 : 18:54:01
|
I find it offensive as well. I find it offensive that we have such a shitty ignorant President and crony advisors. I find it offensive that Flight 93 was shot down and we were "protected" from the truth with a bunch of lies about "heroes" and bullshit stories of the passengers fighting the terrorists to crash the plane. I find it offensive that our news reports are jam packed with fear inducing and brainwashing stories. I find it offensive that over 11000 people are killed in handgun related violence each year. I find it offensive that International Monitoring boards were called in to monitor the recent elections and that most of the US doesn't vote. I find the "war" on drugs offensive. I find any organized religion that promotes intolerance, racial hatred, and fucking children and then covering it up offensive. I find EVERY ACTION the US has taken over the past few years TOTALLY OFFENSIVE.
I will agree to disagree, though I don't understand why you can't use the supposed brain you have and just want to say things like "idiot". I find that offensive.
And what kind of argument is this: "yeah, the US "planned" this.. i mean, look how great it's been for our country (especially NY).. and the world for that matter.." What the fuck does that even mean? Do you think the powers that be give a fuck about the current state if it is a means to their end.
It's all about greed, kiddies. You tell me to wise up.....HA....I tell you to wake the fuck up.
I find it offensive that
"Winter blows through my coat"
the what four http://www.mp3.com/phelan |
|
|
|
the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2003 : 19:01:37
|
And you know what, FUck, I just read the fucking Krist Noveselic Journals on eyesadrift. How is that any fucking different than what I'm saying?
Maybe, you need to get off your high fucking horse, Barlow. |
|
|
|
Thomas
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1615 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2003 : 19:25:42
|
Assholes on the Forum - Don't ya rile 'em
quote:
Originally posted by the swimmer
When I first logged on to this forum, I couldn't believe what I saw. Here was an actually well put together website with hundreds of registered people that appreciated the music of Frank Black in all his incarnations and band members.
quote:
Originally posted by the swimmer
There are posters in here who seem to have nothing better to do than be assholes. Maybe since I am not 14 anymore, I don't find the humor in it. Mirv, Jmascis, and a few others obviously have no life at all. They choose to come in here and see who they can rile up.
quote:
Originally posted by the swimmer
The anonymous nature of forums and posts lend themselves to the availability of petty, immature members to make their asshole comments with no repercussions. They know they wouldn't say that stuff in a real face to face situation because they would get their sorry asses smacked back into their cribs.
quote:
Originally posted by the swimmer
In any community, or should I say in a REAL LIFE community, troublemakers are dealt with. They are not tolerated. Why should this forum be any different?
Now floop's post has meaning. |
Edited by - Thomas on 01/19/2003 20:06:01 |
|
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2003 : 19:42:24
|
take your meds bro.
i occasionally eat chateaubriand. |
|
|
|
Chip Away Boy
= Cult of Ray =
914 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2003 : 19:55:53
|
| and then there was silence...kudos Thomas |
|
|
|
Visiting Sasquatch
= Cult of Ray =
USA
451 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2003 : 19:58:40
|
| You want a conspiracy! I AM a conspiracy...get it, sasquatch...nevermind. |
|
|
|
ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2003 : 20:28:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by the swimmer
What was the point of flying two planes into the World Trade Center? What did it accomplish? What is it exactly the "Terrorists" want? How come that has never been explained?
It really can't be explained being that the terrorists are psychopaths who think they are in some jihad or "holy" war with the United States and its allies.
And is the United States responsible for explaining what a bunch of lunatic bitches in Afghanistan want/do? I don't think so, the swimmer. Go ask Mr. O.B. Laden if you want to know what they want; otherwise, go finish writing the screenplay for conspiracy theory 2.
Derek |
|
|
|
Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2003 : 20:33:06
|
D00D UR TOTALLY RITE!!!! PEEPAL NEVER WENT TO THE MOON!!!!!! IT WAS ALL FAKED!!! THE CEREAL CONGLOMERATES ASSASSINATED JFK BEFORE HE COULD RELEASE A REPORT IMPLICATING THEIR PRODUCTS IN MAKING CHILDREN STUPID BUT HAVING GROWTH HORMONES TO CREATE A GENERATION OF POWERFUL SUPERMEN!!!!!!!!!
also poop is good for you so next time be sure to eat it and not just flush it!! drinking bleach will also keep you young forever, it won't kill you, that's a myth. |
|
|
|
Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 00:00:26
|
my cat's name is mittens.
-dan |
|
|
|
L. Barlow
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
64 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 03:54:43
|
cant see what your saying. as far as im concerned anybody who celebrates the fact that day occured with those events, never mind actually doing them, deserves to burn in hell for all eternity. i dont recall whats his name bin laden admitting to it or anything but im sure he was laughing his ass off at it. same goes bloody saddam who should have been dead a decade ago but 'we' decided to let him off.....
"sept 11 planned by U.S." get a fucking grip you idiot....
;D |
|
|
|
fallus
- FB Fan -
Belgium
94 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 04:11:58
|
well the US needed something to shake them up a bit... this was way too drastic, but don't forget the US does some terrible shit too...
they should've just let the plains crash in the white house instead...
This is not a signature. |
|
|
|
the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 08:40:43
|
What is this...and then there was silence....I am sorry I don't sit on the site waiting for ignorant people to reply to my posts. I go out and do things and have a life, you guys should try it.
Thomas, you have no argument. What does it matter that you quoted another post of mine, it doesn't have anything to do with this post.
Therefore, you wasted space.
When did I ever say I celebrate the events that took place on Sept. 11th? Nowhere? Ok, just asking.
I put this post up to see what other people thought of the theory that I read on another site. I didn't make this shit up, someone else did. I was responding to it.
I don't have to explain a god damned thing as it's right in front of your face if you knew how to read. I guess I was asking too much.
Leave your "14 year old" responses on the ZOOM website. And re-read my "Assholes on the Forum" Post because it obviously is about you.
And once again, wake up little babies. |
|
|
|
ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 12:26:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by the swimmer
What is this...and then there was silence....I am sorry I don't sit on the site waiting for ignorant people to reply to my posts. I go out and do things and have a life, you guys should try it.
I put this post up to see what other people thought of the theory that I read on another site. I didn't make this shit up, someone else did. I was responding to it.
Saying someone doesn't "have a life" and to go get one is the weakest internet comeback in the history of all internets.
I don't think anyone accused you of making this story up, but you did have an opinion about it and you said "It's not far fetched at all", implying you believe it somewhat.
And I don't see anything wrong with Thomas quoting your past posts. Even in your last post you contradicted yourself...
"I am sorry I don't sit on the site waiting for ignorant people to reply to my posts."
"I put this post up to see what other people thought of the theory that I read on another site"
To further clarify... You started this post to see what other people thought? But you don't sit around waiting for us (the ignorant people) to reply? So basically you only want people who agree with you to reply? You can't start a topic like this and not expect people to disagree completely with you.
Derek |
|
|
|
Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 13:09:28
|
don't try to get this imbecile to make sense, he's not going to.
DUHR!!! ALIENS BUILT THE PYRAMIDS!!!!!! DUHR!!!!!! THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!!!!! X-FILES WAS A DOCUMENTARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
oi vey. |
|
|
|
El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 14:07:49
|
Wow, I thought the people here were a bit more open and a bit more kind, but this is crazy. I'd rather side with the swimmer on this one. Although his argument or post might not have been worded the best way possible, there's some valuable information in there. And for you people to shoot it all down and, for all things, call him an "idiot" is a pretty poor response.
I would expect people to be a bit more liberal around here. For anyone to think the government had no involvement whatsoever in September 11th, to me, is way too optimistic. It's blissfully ignorant, if you ask me. There are too many holes in the story, we'll never get the entire truth cause it's such a sensitive subject, and Americans prefer a happy ending than a "sad, twisted, dirty" ending.
September 11th was a shock. What other feeling would you get when you just heard 2 planes crashed into the WTC. Then what? You want answers...within hours, within the day, suddenly this government who had "no idea" these events were going to happen has a list of names...a plot...a country which supposidely purpotrated (sp?) this plot. Within the month (or less) we have this "Patriot Act" all drawn out and ready to be signed, and before that we're already turning Afghanistan into a dirt parking lot. How convenient.
What's even more convenient is that we've compared this event to Pearl Harbor. Maybe those who said that should reconsider, seeing as we provoked Japan into attacking us, fully knowing the consequences of such actions.
And then there's Iraq. We already have our agenda. We're going to attack them. We're going to assassinate Saddam. And we're going to take the oil. We don't have inspectors there to make sure they're following through...we have them there to somehow justify our sugarcoat the fact that we're going to level them out. Hey, North Korea is openly admitting to their intentions, but we can solve THAT one with diplomacy. It'd be a different story if they were sitting on a rich oil supply.
If you ask me, those who blindly accept the story of September 11th are the fools. Those who are willing to fully believe of government who has a terrible history of lying and cheating are just cheating themselves. These people are the reason Bush is in power. These people are the reason why we're never going to see an end to this needless conflict. |
Edited by - El Barto on 01/19/2003 14:19:45 |
|
|
|
El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 14:20:52
|
| Also, a friend of mine highly recommends everyone to read James Banford's book Body of Secrets which goes into very detailed (and well documented) examples of government conspiracies plotted in the 60s and 70s by the Joints Chief of Staffs. Operation Northwood is a well documented project authorized and run by the JCS...so if they planned stuff like this back then, why wouldn't they do it now? |
|
|
|
Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 15:51:04
|
ok uhh, let me drop the sarcasm for a minute and try to explain something.
yes, george bush is a corrupt asshole who takes money from shady characters with their own interests in mind, and then bends over backwards to help them.
but so has pretty much every politician in history. he's more corrupt than some, but he's nothing new. if you think he is, you should probably stop reading your conspiracy-obsessed web sites and basement newsletters and pick up some history books.
'no knowledge' is pretty obviously bullshit. certainly they had hints that something of that nature was going on. they also had hints that a lot of other things were happening. it's the intelligence industry's job to determine what's a real threat and what isn't, and obviously they failed in the case of 9/11.
being liberal, conservative, fascist or whatever has nothing to do with believing obviously paranoia-induced bullshit like the crap you two are spouting.
the ridiculous cartoon of the real world and the real government that morons like you two come up with is a product of spending all your time with your head up your own ass.
honestly, i'm not interested in really discussing this crap. first of all, it's not worth my time to take the fecal matter you're spewing out seriously. secondly, i just don't care what you think. the sad truth is you're both stupid. i wish you luck in fixing that problem, but i'm not optimistic.
w3rd 2 ur mutha. |
|
|
|
St. Francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
548 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 17:17:32
|
If flight 93 (Penn St.?) was shot down why is this such a huge situation? If there were hi-jackers on board and wanted to fly into a city/taget I think by the greater good ideal your government (if they did) should have shot this plane down... This adheres to modern politics as much as your Reichstag example...
In addition after so many of your tollerance outbirst (Assholes on the forum?) I find you a bit abbrasive why rant and then rant at people who are making valuable points against your line of thinking... In your attempt to display hipocracy you have become a hypocrit based on the image you portrait on this site.
Why not ask the logical questions rather than push conspiracy? For example:
Why did the local Buffalo news make no reference to the Peace protests held around the globe yesterday?
Why was there no mention of the Canadian soldiers bombed by your cowboy pilots on CNN or it's web site?
Why are Muslim Canadians being detained at the boarder en-mass and why is your own Muslim population being detained?
More interestingly, why are Saudi Nationals or Saudi Arabia not on the terrorist watch list when the Hi-jackers were virtually all Saudi?
And why are Americans not asking these questions or other questions about the nature of their relations and standing in the world?
I find these more interesting than hoping a group of Cigar Smoking industrialists are sitting in back rooms planning the course of history.
Perhaps the consiparcy has less to do with oil but the nature of global policy which is unchanging on the US front... |
Edited by - St. Francis on 01/19/2003 17:47:37 |
|
|
|
Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 17:54:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by St. Francis
Why did the local Buffalo news make no reference to the Peace protests held around the globe yesterday?
won't get ratings.
quote:
Why was there no mention of the Canadian soldiers bombed by your cowboy pilots on CNN or it's web site?
frankly because most americans don't care, see above. it's sad but true. while canadians may cry as a country for losing four soldiers, americans accept that's the price of war. even if it's friendly fire, it doesn't get that much press here, compared to other things.
quote:
Why are Muslim Canadians being detained at the boarder en-mass and why is your own Muslim population being detained?
More interestingly, why are Saudi Nationals or Saudi Arabia not on the terrorist watch list when the Hi-jackers were virtually all Saudi?
well, obviously muslims are going to get extra attention from authorities, but you're over playing it.
quote:
And why are Americans not asking these questions or other questions about the nature of their relations and standing in the world?
some of them are, but most canadians aren't asking this question either. don't kid yourself, most people are stupid and/or don't care.
but at least your points were better than those above. |
|
|
|
ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 17:56:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jose Jones
my cat's name is mittens.
-dan
No kidding, mine is too! She has an extra finger on each of her front paws and it kind of looks like she has ... mittens.
Derek |
|
|
|
St. Francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
548 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 18:14:28
|
Ebb,
Not too sure if some of these things are overplayed... imagine if 4 American's were killed by Canadians?? Not too sure if we are crying as a country but it promotes the question of why bother helping? This occurred at a time when your country's hockey fans started a policy of booing the Canadian anthem in the NHL playoffs... rather shorted sighted considering 70% of the players in the NHL are Canadian... in a sense the fans were booing their own teams. Let's reverse the question again... imagine if after we killed Americans in friendly fire and then booed their anthem?
As for ratings well that's a problem... if the world is protesting the why is a liberal and democratic media not displaying this fact to it's people? This is the bubble which America would be in it's best interest to overcome... while we might support the war and not ask some of the questions I have mentioned the fact is Canadian's are generally more informed about foreign issues and there is more debate in our media...
Finally, the Muslim thing is the height of stupidity... if 90% of the people who participated in the attack are Saudi why are they, as a nation, not being screened as terrorists? I think this is an example of window dressing to give the feeling of security by subduing a visual other... in terms of logic for protection this makes no sense at all and shows the reality of the problems are not being addressed...
This is not overplaying an issue because war is being justified in terms of maintaining freedom. The freedom of those who attacked is not impeded (I might remind you Osama Bin Laden is Saudi) but the the freedom of visible minorities who are Muslim is being taken away...
Security is not looking into the most logical threat...
Brothers be on my jock 'cause the way I hold a piece of steel... |
Edited by - St. Francis on 01/19/2003 18:26:43 |
|
|
|
El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 18:32:24
|
| Actually St. Francis, I gotta stop you on the peace protests question. Yesterday I visited some of the major media news sites (msnbc, cnn, foxnews, abcnews) and every single one of them had the banner headline about the peace protests. I was pretty shocked to see it up there, because my girlfriend, my friend, and I went to the other huge protest in DC in October (23? 26?) and it was nothing more than a blurb on those sites. It's just good to see something like that brought to attention, although it's pretty much futile and too late. |
|
|
|
the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 18:42:30
|
My intent with the ORIGINAL post was not to attack anyone. I merely brought up the theory (as I said before) in order for people to discuss.
I was expecting people to weigh in on both sides.
I was hoping they would.
I did not expect someone to start attcking ME personally. It didn't start out that way and it won't finish that way.
Ebb and Proverbial and others that I could give a shit about because they have already shown their ignorance decided to start calling names. Like babies.
So I am laughing right now. I am laughing at the ignorance I have seen spew out on this forum. I, like El Barto, thought there'd be some intelligent conversations.
HA.
HA HA FUCKING HA.
I am done with this topic and so are all of you. Go change your diapers, they're starting to stink. |
|
|
|
St. Francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
548 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 18:50:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
Actually St. Francis, I gotta stop you on the peace protests question. Yesterday I visited some of the major media news sites (msnbc, cnn, foxnews, abcnews) and every single one of them had the banner headline about the peace protests. I was pretty shocked to see it up there, because my girlfriend, my friend, and I went to the other huge protest in DC in October (23? 26?) and it was nothing more than a blurb on those sites. It's just good to see something like that brought to attention, although it's pretty much futile and too late.
Good to know... I watched the local Buffalo NY news and there was no mention of the protest... good to know this is being carried via the web. Guess people can get it if they want it...didn't watch US national news... Glad to know what's what although the US media is a bit sketchy in general... sure you know this though.
Brothers be on my jock 'cause the way I hold a piece of steel... |
Edited by - St. Francis on 01/19/2003 18:53:22 |
|
|
|
Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 20:17:43
|
hmm..
The news most people in the US see/read is produced by massive commercial companies, who's sole purpose is to make more money for the stockholders.
How much of what they publish is really an accurate, unbiased portrayal of a given situation?
Armed with this knowledge, can you honestly say you have reasonable knowledge of a situation with most or all your 'facts' coming from this source?
I am doubtful.
Calling someone of 'conspiracy' theories is appropriate, and as necessary as calling the gov't or companies on their shit. I see no need to throw insults, or act like a patriotic buffoon tho.
If you don't agree with someone, cool, explain why. Back it up. Otherwise your statements appear as moronic as those you oppose.
Which is fine too. Be an idiot. Just understand that you're doing the exact same thing as your 'opponent'. Which probably will piss you off even more when you realize that. ;)
Play nice folks. |
|
|
|
Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 20:33:58
|
the news media is not liberal or democratic, it's capitalist.
as for the 90% saudi thing, they have to look out for that other 10% too. besides which, if they started only focusing on saudis, the saudi terrorists wouldn't be sent on missions. this is the theory anyway. i don't think the ridiculous 'heightened security' at the canadian border, or in the US in general really does much good. it just makes some people feel more safe. but that's another issue.
if canadians accidentally killed 4 americans i think most americans would go 'oh well, mistakes happen.' (once it was confirmed that it was a mistake, which i think most americans would assume it was) and let it go. we also wouldn't take canadian fans booing our anthem that seriously. first of all it's a competitive event, so people are going to talk shit (and make mean noises) at the 'opponent.' is it really so difficult to understand? hockey fans are generally morons anyway.
some canadians are completely insecure and look for any little reason to get pissy. you seem to be one of them, that's too bad.
this thread is just annoying because everything's so fucking obvious. that's why i really don't feel like going into explanations, and i just dismiss most everything that's been said as stupid. because it is. if you want to assume i'm stupid for doing that, that's great, go right ahead. i couldn't give a fuck less.
this thread makes me feel like i wandered into a high school, and the ignorant little turds are trying to discuss world issues. it's like five year olds debating quantum mechanics.
ps - i don't think it's worth worrying about how 'most americans' would react. just like i don't think it's worth worrying about how 'most canadians' react to what has happened. if i'm interested in all, it's only in the individual reaction. |
Edited by - Ebb Vicious on 01/19/2003 20:37:08 |
|
|
|
ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 23:14:07
|
Poop.
Derek |
|
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2003 : 23:54:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
Wow, I thought the people here were a bit more open and a bit more kind, but this is crazy. I'd rather side with the swimmer on this one. Although his argument or post might not have been worded the best way possible, there's some valuable information in there. And for you people to shoot it all down and, for all things, call him an "idiot" is a pretty poor response.
speaking for myself, i said that document was "the most fucking idiotic" thing i've read on this site. which i still do. not that The Swimmer was an idiot. that's another debate unto itself..
quote:
I would expect people to be a bit more liberal around here. For anyone to think the government had no involvement whatsoever in September 11th, to me, is way too optimistic. It's blissfully ignorant, if you ask me. There are too many holes in the story, we'll never get the entire truth cause it's such a sensitive subject, and Americans prefer a happy ending than a "sad, twisted, dirty" ending.
it's not a matter of being liberal or not, it's a matter of opinion.
quote:
September 11th was a shock. What other feeling would you get when you just heard 2 planes crashed into the WTC. Then what? You want answers...within hours, within the day, suddenly this government who had "no idea" these events were going to happen has a list of names...a plot...a country which supposidely purpotrated (sp?) this plot. Within the month (or less) we have this "Patriot Act" all drawn out and ready to be signed, and before that we're already turning Afghanistan into a dirt parking lot. How convenient.
what did we have to gain by invading Afghanistan?
quote:
What's even more convenient is that we've compared this event to Pearl Harbor. Maybe those who said that should reconsider, seeing as we provoked Japan into attacking us, fully knowing the consequences of such actions.
i'm very familiar with the Pearl Harbor theory, and, in that case, i buy into it. but only because with Pearl Harbor there is solid evidence to suggest that that's what happened. what evidence can you present? (evidence, not theory) other than generalized statements like, the US has a history of lying and cheating..
quote:
And then there's Iraq. We already have our agenda. We're going to attack them. We're going to assassinate Saddam. And we're going to take the oil. We don't have inspectors there to make sure they're following through...we have them there to somehow justify our sugarcoat the fact that we're going to level them out. Hey, North Korea is openly admitting to their intentions, but we can solve THAT one with diplomacy. It'd be a different story if they were sitting on a rich oil supply.
i agree with you..
i'm against invading Iraq myself. and i didn't support invading Afghanistan. but that's a separate issue to the heading of this thread which is "sept. 11th planned by U.S.".. that's what i'm responding to.
quote:
If you ask me, those who blindly accept the story of September 11th are the fools. Those who are willing to fully believe of government who has a terrible history of lying and cheating are just cheating themselves. These people are the reason Bush is in power. These people are the reason why we're never going to see an end to this needless conflict.
el barto, i think your heart's in the right place. believe me, i'm as harsh a critic of the U.S. as any.
i didn't vote for Bush and i have no doubt that our government has a history of lying and cheating..
but how is your vague theory government inovlvment any less blind than all of the blind "fools" who you are apparantly an intellecutal superior to?
while an inspired (and inevitable) theory, i personally find it absurd. and yes, offensive. but if you can show me evidence to support this theory, i'm open to it.
i just don't understand how consciously killing thousands of civilians and majorly fucking up our economy could be advantageous.
and how much support for an invasion of Iraq is there? it seems pretty divided to me.
i occasionally eat chateaubriand. |
Edited by - floop on 01/20/2003 00:18:50 |
|
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2003 : 00:13:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Noisy
hmm..
The news most people in the US see/read is produced by massive commercial companies, who's sole purpose is to make more money for the stockholders.
you think the mainstream news media is much different anywhere else?
quote:
How much of what they publish is really an accurate, unbiased portrayal of a given situation?
not much.
quote:
Armed with this knowledge, can you honestly say you have reasonable knowledge of a situation with most or all your 'facts' coming from this source?
I am doubtful.
that's a pretty simplistic view. you're assuming that everyone in the US depends on network media and major newspapers for all their news, which is not true.
quote:
Calling someone of 'conspiracy' theories is appropriate, and as necessary as calling the gov't or companies on their shit. I see no need to throw insults, or act like a patriotic buffoon tho.
why is "conspiracy theory" insulting? that's what this is. by definition.
until something has been proven as a fact, what is it if it isn't a theory? in this case, one involving conspiracy.
you're throwing more insults yourself and you know it.
i don't really have any interest in discussing this either.. and i can admit that my initial response was semi knee-jerk. but i stand by my opinion..
i like you Dave so this isn't directed towards you.. but i have to say, whenever i've traveled abroad, it always annoys me how Canadians have to go out of their way to ANNOUNCE that they're CANADIAN and not AMERICAN with their little Canada flag patches on their backpacks. if you want to talk about patriotic buffoons... let's discuss that.
i occasionally eat chateaubriand. |
|
|
|
fallus
- FB Fan -
Belgium
94 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2003 : 00:59:54
|
This is so funny, it's like a parody of America... And a good one for that.
Swimmer posts something which is a bit offensive - but he didn't write it, he just wanted opinions on it, have a good discussions about it. Then all of a sudden people start flaming him because he posted bad publicity about America. "Your post is bull shit, or horse shit, you're an idiot" - c'mon people, this is not the way to tell someone you disagree.
I don't see why Thomas posted those quotes, as they are not relevant. Swimmer wasn't beeing an asshole, he just opened a discussion on something, and other people didn't take it very well. Guess this subject is a bit of a taboo. And what's up with the "End then there was silence" post, which came exactly 30 (!) minutes after Thomas' post. Gee, Thomas must have really silenced the swimmer as he didn't reply for (gasp!) 30 minutes! You're the man, Thomas!
I just think it's ridicoulous that someone can't post an idea hoping to get some other opinions about it, withou being flamed and called names. Even if he isn't right, that doesn't make him stupid. You shouldn't expect people to be right all the time.
If I were a hot babe, I would get myself some aids and then seduce Bush. That would solve the problem :)
This is not a signature. |
|
|
|
the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2003 : 08:08:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by fallus
This is so funny, it's like a parody of America... And a good one for that.
Swimmer posts something which is a bit offensive - but he didn't write it, he just wanted opinions on it, have a good discussions about it. Then all of a sudden people start flaming him because he posted bad publicity about America. "Your post is bull shit, or horse shit, you're an idiot" - c'mon people, this is not the way to tell someone you disagree.
I don't see why Thomas posted those quotes, as they are not relevant. Swimmer wasn't beeing an asshole, he just opened a discussion on something, and other people didn't take it very well. Guess this subject is a bit of a taboo. And what's up with the "End then there was silence" post, which came exactly 30 (!) minutes after Thomas' post. Gee, Thomas must have really silenced the swimmer as he didn't reply for (gasp!) 30 minutes! You're the man, Thomas!
I just think it's ridicoulous that someone can't post an idea hoping to get some other opinions about it, withou being flamed and called names. Even if he isn't right, that doesn't make him stupid. You shouldn't expect people to be right all the time.
If I were a hot babe, I would get myself some aids and then seduce Bush. That would solve the problem :)
This is not a signature.
Thank you. Thanks for hitting the nail squarely on the head. I don't even have to respond anymore. Really, thanks for understanding, Fallus. |
|
|
|
billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6213 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2003 : 08:42:11
|
Haven't read all the replies
but Swimmer, your first post
was bullshit in my ears
for instance
the Nazis Party didn't set fire to Reichstagbuilding
dutch communist Marius van der Lubbe did that
''it's not a box, it's a submarine'' |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Topic Locked
