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fallus
- FB Fan -
Belgium
94 Posts |
 Posted - 12/17/2002 : 00:51:45
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... Frank could make a living based on the rolyalties he gets from the Pixies?
I don't know good the old Pixies CD's still sell.
This is not a signature. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 02:25:39
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| After Bowie covering Cactus..quite likely. |
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bazza
* Dog in the Sand *
Ireland
1439 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 03:41:05
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i would have thought so as well
when you've got nothing
you've got nothing to lose.
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 08:48:36
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i don't know - it's not like the pixies catalog moves millions of units a year, but i'm sure he makes a relatively nice sum from his pixies work
-Brian
as breathing flows my mind secedes... |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 09:22:52
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| Especially since he wrote so many of the songs - the writer reaps the most rewards in royalty standards. |
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Thomas
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1615 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 11:27:53
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Fight Club also helped alot.
Thomas
"It's the Nexus of the Crisis"
BÖCswu |
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bazza
* Dog in the Sand *
Ireland
1439 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 11:33:50
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mmm.... i read somewhere that FB didnt get any money for that.
could be wrong though
when you've got nothing
you've got nothing to lose.
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 11:51:54
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| he must make a fair bit of cash from the Pixies as like people have pointed out the somngs have been used in films like Fight Club, Unbreakable, the Smirnoff advert (which UK fans will remember) etc etc. People are still discovering the Pixies as well, so he must have a steady income from his first few albums..... |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 12:01:29
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If Frank was the sole writer for the song they used in Fight Club, he would get 100% of the writer's share. The publisher (if it's just one publisher) would get 100% of the publishing royalties.
Meaning if the producers of Fight Club paid, I don't know, say 5 Grand for the use of the song, 2500 goes to Frank, 2500 goes to the publisher. If Frank and Someone else wrote it together, 2500 would go to the publisher, 1250 to Frank and 1250 to the other writer.
If Frank was the sole writer and owned the publishing, he would get the whole shebang.
In a movie, there is a synch license and a mechanical license. That is a whole other can of worms which someone could ask me off this topic if they want, I'd be happy to explain as best I could.
As for Frank being able to live off Pixies royalties alone...that depends on how he lives and what his deals were and percentages were in the past.
You can bet on one thing, the way he's doing it now, where he licences the master recordings out to different record companies, is probably the best way to do it. He owns it all, he makes all the money and doles it out how he sees fit.
This is not the case with the Pixies.
Publishing is a pretty cool business. If you have the publishing rights to a hit song, you can continually make money on it as long as it's being sold out there.
Of course I am simplifying this alot but, I am sure Frank does well enough to continue doing what he loves to do.
And that's really all that matters, isn't it?
"Winter blows through my coat"
the what four http://www.mp3.com/phelan |
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idle_hands
- FB Fan -
Chile
53 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 12:36:16
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I don't think he makes too much money from selling records.
I read an Elvis Costello interview somewhere regarding his catalog re-issues, and he said that he's never made money from selling records but from publishing. He and his early days manager were wise enough to never sell the publishing rights, so the man owns his complete catalog and licences his recordings whoever he wants to and that seems to be the best way to go... of course, when you're young, you're a musician, and you're broke you don't have quite a strong position to negotiate this with a major label, so I can't figure out how EC managed to do this.
As for FB, didn't he say he owns the publishing rights after COR? (not included)
oh the devil will find work for idle hands to do... |
Edited by - idle_hands on 12/17/2002 12:37:14 |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 13:18:43
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| he can live off the pixies royalties....quite well in fact....i dont think any of us really need to worry about his finances |
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cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 13:35:06
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quote:
Originally posted by idle_hands
... of course, when you're young, you're a musician, and you're broke you don't have quite a strong position to negotiate this with a major label, so I can't figure out how EC managed to do this.
Because the Copyright Act of 1978 (after EC became established) defined recorded music as "works for hire." If I understand this correctly (and if not, Swimmer will surely correct me), this means the record companies own the publishing rights to these recordings forever. Unless you've got the foresight to pass on the quick advance cash (that the record companies take anyway) and insist on owning them yourself (like EC and FB).
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man. =- |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 14:36:38
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| Pixies albums have to still be selling really well. They're kind of like the Velvet Underground or the Beatles, you need them in your collection in order for it to be complete. Every single "indie" music fan is going to buy at least Doolittle when he/she turns 18, it's jsut the way it works. I can't count the people I know who've gone on to buy a Pixies/FB album at one point or another. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6213 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 15:01:26
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He once said
that the pixies still pay most of his bills
and that he has 3 cars (''i'm an american ok!'')
and that he can eat in almost every restaurant, if he wants to
Yop |
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St. Francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
548 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 16:11:27
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I think I heard somewhere that he does not own the publishing rights to the Pixies and given his age at the time and the era in music (late 80's still a massive sleazy industry) I wouldn't be surprised if this is true. If this is the case, it might not be unlike Gary Coleman and Todd Bridges getting nothing from the residuals of Different Strokes.
Thankfully Frank continues to make music and didn't turn to a life of crime and celebraty boxing like Todd.
Out on the Eisenhower, well, I lost my speed just a little bit south of a town called weed... |
Edited by - St. Francis on 12/18/2002 16:21:06 |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 17:37:31
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itchload makes a good point......to elaborate, i also feel that many pixies and frank black fans out there will have a tendency to re-purchase albums that get worn and torn over the years.....i have to admit that i'm a bit of a slob when it comes to taking care of my cd's....(except "black sessions" which i'm trying to figure out how i can put it in cold-storage to protect it).....so if there are any fans out there that wear out their cd's and tapes like i do, frank needn't worry too much about his finances.
...and evolving from the sea, would not be too much time for me, to walk beside you in the sun.... |
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
653 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 20:27:31
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quote:
Originally posted by fallus
... Frank could make a living based on the rolyalties he gets from the Pixies?
I don't know good the old Pixies CD's still sell.
The Swimmer's summation of standard royalty situations is quite correct. You'll note that many of the Pixies discs (at least in the USA) were marked down to midline status a few years back by Elektra, which probably means that the band's/writer's royalties took a bit of a cut at that time.
It's actually rather sad how little the bands and even the songwriters get paid for each album sold through a major. The truth is that usually all of the albums in a single deal are cross-collateralized. Essentially, this means that if the production and marketing expenses of Bossanova weren't made back by album sales, then any profits made by Trompe Le Monde would be applied to help cover those outstanding debts to the label before the band would ever see a penny.
Labels routinely charge the bands for every promo poster, radio single, video budget, MTV payola (okay, maybe in the Pixies' case that doesn't apply) and record-store meet-and-greet deli tray that in theory helps to hype their record. meanwhile, they often only guarantee cult bands like the Pixies as little as $1 per CD sold at retail, and they insist on only paying the bands for as little as 75% of the discs pressed, under the spurious claim that up to 1/4 of the total albums either break in transit or are given to DJs or rock critics.
Most kids these days are buying used copies of Pixies discs at second-hand stores, and the band gets none of that.
Most of a group's money is made through live performances. But, despite their stature now, back when they were touring regularly, in most parts of the world they were essentially a club band. Sometimes they'd play small theatres or take a slot at a giant Euro rock festival, but those gigs are usually for smaller pay than what you might think. The Pixies always had a vocal fan base and tons of famous fans, but little real clout in the business.
Back when they opened for U2 on that ridiculously oversized Zoo TV Tour, I would be surprised if they got paid more than $3,000 total per show. The reason being that any band in the world would have killed for that gig, and in theory the high visibility from those slots alone would have helped move a lot of records. Plus the fact that U2 are notoriously stingy, unless you're a world charity.
Once you split that tiny check between the bandmembers and the large crew needed to haul, load and care for their shit, it's no wonder Joey Santiago auctioned off his Marshall stacks on eBay a few years ago.
There's a good reason Frank loads his own gear and drives his own van. It's the same reason he bought his own mobile studio. The more of these things he does himself, the bigger cut of an increasingly smaller pie he gets to keep and split with his bandmates.
Do the math. 300 seat clubs at $12 -$15 a ticket. Then pay Reid Paley. Then pay David Lovering. Then (maybe) pay The Bennies a little something. Then pay for gas and two hotel rooms and food and laundry and long distance bills and a booking agent who takes at least 15% off the top, and a manager who might get the same if not more. Then pay the soundman and/or road manager. Don't forget their gear, which for the most part is to die for (tone's everything, man). And then split what's left up among five guys.
Pretty discouraging. Which makes me all the more respectful of a band like FB & TC for going out and giving it their all despite almost insurmountable odds.
As far as licensing the back catalog for TV and movies goes, Frank told me a few years ago that Pixies songs are constantly in demand for commercials and film projects, but that he is essentially the point man for that sort of thing and he rejects almost all the offers. It's also worth noting that most such deals are usually for only a few thousand bucks up front and a tiny percentage thereafter, and certainly couldn't keep you afloat.
When the rights to the Pixies' back catalog revert back to 4AD in a few months, look for them to hype the shit out of the band and try to milk everything they can out of the current wave of inevitable reappraisal that's buzzing around the group now. It's in their best interest as a label to strike while the iron is hot, and hopefully it will mean some larger than average residuals hitting all the player's mailboxes for a year or two.
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2002 : 14:41:25
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Interesting discussion.. Muso's definately get the tail-end of the $$, especially if there's several people in the band to split it between.. Less than $1 per CD is quite common. (Ever wonder where the other $15 or more is going?) The record companies also CHARGE the musician the time in the studio, and that gets paid off before they see any $$.
Unless you're selling millions of CD's, it's not wise to depend on that for income.
I'm pretty sure much more is made touring, since it goes straight to them, and they make more on merchandise like stickers and shirts.
I'm not sure if they make $$ from the door, a band as popular as FB&TC would *prolly* get a fixed fee for their show.
He would have made extra $$ off Fight Club if they sold a soundtrack as well. |
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