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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
653 Posts |
 Posted - 12/15/2002 : 13:57:00
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You know folks, I've tried very hard to hold back and not weigh in with any specificity on the whole "how to behave on these message boards" debate that seems to be gathering steam lately. However, it's getting increasingly difficult to not enter the fray to voice my concerns and (horrors!) issue a few admonishments of my own.
Dave Noisy, I said in my first post on this site that I was thrilled to have found such a forum, and that I was looking very forward to continued partcipating in this venture. I can't pretend that I'm not already beginning to lose interest after only a few weeks.
My frustration has nothing to do with a lack of insight, interaction or information on Frankblack.net. Thanks to your efforts, I have already met and had intelligent conversations with a number of friendly folks who share my fascination with Frank's art.
On the contrary, it has everything to do with the increasingly childish, macho, blowhard rhetoric that is being posted seemingly every hour on the hour by an ever-growing legion of malcontents who seem to revel in their poor social skills and intimidating behavior.
As a rule, I avoid message boards like the plague for just such reasons, but was so intrigued at the thought and care taken here that I had high hopes we all might be able to keep our collective head above the fray.
Alas, it was not meant to be.
With each passing day, more and more obnoxious, hostile and downright abusive posts are being left by a handful of supposed FB "fans", who unfortunately do not seem to have nearly as much respect for the other members of this site as they do for the songwriter it purports to discuss.
The worst part of all this, is that the blindsided jabs and invective ambushes they fill the boards with seem to bring out the worst in many of the other members, who rarely –if ever– submit nasty and/or harrassing messages, but are quick to snap back with an immature retort or sophomoric insult.
Case in point, the recent post by new member Menard, regarding the relative merits of whether or not people should use the boards to constantly pester Frank for replies to their queries, based on the idea that he sometimes visits the site.
His post was thoughtful, reasoned and worthy of rumination. It was immediately followed with yet another "tell it like it is" slap in the face from Ebb Vicious, who –by all accounts bar his own– completely misinterpreted the tone and heart of Menard's point.
Or did he? It is more likely that he used a provocative question from a vulnerable new member as an opportunity to dole out the type of "truth attack" that has been out of style since Dylan kicked Phil Ochs out of a taxi in 1965.
Before you can say "Ebb, go sit in the corner until you can calm down and rejoin the rest of the class", battle lines are drawn and the board is full of endless volleys which almost immediately sink to the lowest of the low: picking on the disabled and downtrodden.
Now before anyone pegs me for a bleeding heart who just wants everyone to "get along", let me say that I'm known for being quite the jerk at times, and must make a regular effort to curtail my natural tendency toward condescension.
But not on this board.
We're all lucky that the web allows us the opportunity to publicly comment freely and candidly on matters such as this, especially considering its done without the official endorsement of Frank Black himself. I'm not about to jeapordize the quasi-legitimacy of this endeavor with a bunch of asinine nonsense and playground taunts, and I'd like to think that there are plenty of others on this board who feel the same way.
Dave, I feel for you. By stepping up to the plate and constructiong this site, you and your close-knit team have provided a wonderful outlet for an international community that so obviously needed one. However, along with that vision comes the responsibility of keeping the site (and its message boards) as positive and mature as possible. Without that effort or goal, the site will eventually become essentially irrelevant, avoided by all but the most diehard fans who are willing to wade through lots of crap to find some pearls.
I don't know what to suggest in terms of a solution to what I perceive to be a growing problem. I know you are steadfastly opposed to censoring any of the posts or deleting any of the more inflammatory content (like that ugly "let's buy Frank a bunch of razor blades" scene a while back), but there must be some sort of active stance you can take to discourage or block the folks who are repeatedly using the boards as a way in which to spread their antagonism. Talk like that usually turns at some point to racism, sexism and other forms of persecution, of which I want no part of.
If you're not up for doing anything from the top down, I respect that. It's your site.
But if that's the case, then I would like to suggest to all of those who share my concerns, that we take a vigorous stand, and try very hard to simply REFUSE to comment on or respond to ANY vicious or mean-spirited attacks made on these boards. If enough of us do that, it will not only curtail the amount of negative bullshit that's starting to clog up the boards, but it will spotlight the jerks for what they are: anomalies.
As soon as we play into the game that many of these folks are playing (and you know who they are), we very quickly devalue ourselves and the notion of a community of FB enthusiasts in general. In the absence of an official website (I don't count the Spinart site) Frankblack.net has the potential to be a wonderful tool to help promote and spread word of Frank's music, and it's not unthinkable that at some point it could receive a bit of an imprimatur from Frank himself.
Too much of this sort of behavior, and the serious folks (including Mr. Black and his associates) will stay away.
The next time I have the pleasure of speaking with Frank, I'd like to be able to tell him without reservation that I'm a member of this board, and not have to worry about any guilt by association.
I welcome any and all comments, and remain -
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
[EDIT: Moved - Dave Noisy] |
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mdisanto
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1140 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2002 : 15:46:52
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someone has said it in another post and ill just say it again (for the record ive said it about 6 times already)...
these problems will work themselves out if everyone stops getting all worked up about it. peter, youre certainly well spoken enough, so im going to assume are a pretty intelligent guy. this kinda stuff just comes with the territory. its the way it is that when something new and great comes out, there are people who are quick to abuse it, becuase they get off on seeing everyone overreact. if it really bothers you that much, dont read this for a month, and then you come back and everything will be fine. they will get bored or grow up or whatever the case may be. im gonna stay becuase there are still plenty of fb questions to be posed, and bootlegs to download!
by the way, ill be at 500 in no time with all the responses to people posting about this or that person.
-miked |
Edited by - mdisanto on 12/15/2002 15:48:02 |
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steveplymouthuk
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
639 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2002 : 17:00:24
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a fair point mr radiator that does need saying, but the trouble is by saying it, "they" are getting more of the undeserved attention.
So you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
Don't worry though, quality will ultimately prevail and order will resume, after all, there can't be that many pictures on google image search, can there?
"A sure cure for seasickness is to sit under a tree."
Spike Milligan. |
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MIRV
- FB Fan -
178 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2002 : 17:39:14
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how long did that take you to write?
you must never get laid. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2002 : 17:45:10
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the comedy never stops..
palabra a tu madre. |
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theonecontender
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
565 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2002 : 18:35:21
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quote:
Originally posted by MIRV
how long did that take you to write?
you must never get laid.
shit that's funny... I have to say though, that if people weren't so sensitive and easily offended by some letters written by someone they obviously don't give a damn about, then they would not be all upset and bitching constantly. Man, I really don't like this politically correct trend.. is it obvious?
1c |
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Chip Away Boy
= Cult of Ray =
914 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2002 : 20:05:38
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| whats up with caring so much about what other people type? it's a cool forum but its not real life.. |
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KingOfSiam
- FB LinkMaster -
USA
460 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2002 : 07:12:31
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| I am a very tolerant person. Having said that I have read very little offensive posts. Although when people directly attack someone - I find offense in that. But as far as all the other posts - they just make me laugh and make me glad that I am not those people! |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2002 : 07:26:28
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| I'm with Chip Away Boy. Everyone just needs to RELAX. Oy. |
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mereubu
= FB QuizMistress =
USA
2677 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2002 : 07:26:47
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| Yeah, it's mainly the insults and bickering that I find irksome. I think we should all link arms and sing Kum Ba Ya. |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2002 : 08:23:59
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| Yes, lets. "Ooooohhh Lord, Kum Ba Yaaa".... |
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mereubu
= FB QuizMistress =
USA
2677 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2002 : 08:33:30
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| Tee-hee. Happy Monday, Ramona. |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2002 : 08:50:36
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Same to you, dearie.
Lots can happen on a weekend away from these boards... |
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zanni67
= Bio Elf =
643 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 05:37:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Chip Away Boy
whats up with caring so much about what other people type? it's a cool forum but its not real life..
Oh, ok, I guess being told "enough with the internet crap" by a catholic live and in person is NOT real life.
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fallus
- FB Fan -
Belgium
94 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 06:17:33
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I also have a site with a pretty popular forum. Sometimes it gets nasty. One time, there was this guy that posted like 20 offensive posts per day, a lot of gay-bashing, women-bashing, anyone-that-wasn't-him-bashing, ... At first I, and other members, kept replying, telling him to cut the crap, but he just kept doing it. Until we stopped paying attention.
These guys just think they're funny. Which is their good right. I don't think they are, but I don't really mind, as long as they're not really spoiling everything. If you don't like it, don't respond. If you think it's funny, erm, I guess you should consider seeing a mental doctor.
I guess we should make the internet less user-friendly, so only the intelligent people can participate :)
This is not a signature. |
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fallus
- FB Fan -
Belgium
94 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 06:19:57
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quote:
Originally posted by peter radiator
Or did he? It is more likely that he used a provocative question from a vulnerable new member as an opportunity to dole out the type of "truth attack" that has been out of style since Dylan kicked Phil Ochs out of a taxi in 1965.
So, what's the Dylan story all about?
This is not a signature. |
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Visiting Sasquatch
= Cult of Ray =
USA
451 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 10:09:49
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| Zanni, please fill us in... |
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zanni67
= Bio Elf =
643 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 10:38:24
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It's been covered elsewhere, but here is a synopsis: I did my fair share of lighthearted joking, etc etc and was told to stop, point blank, by a member of the band last month. That was a direct quote. So, in trying to be funny, I pissed someone off who I'd rather not have. It is REAL LIFE.
The stuff we post on here effects REAL PEOPLE and their REAL LIVES. So, now I feel like crap. It just pisses me off when people say it's just the internet. Obviously, it's just the opposite. |
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Thomas
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1615 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 11:22:18
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Sounds kind of familiar Zan? This must have been from the Bowery show. Could be that there was more to it than just that.
Thomas
"It's the Nexus of the Crisis"
BÖCswu |
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
653 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2002 : 17:00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by fallus
These guys just think they're funny. Which is their good right. I don't think they are, but I don't really mind, as long as they're not really spoiling everything.
Thanks to all for the responses to my post. I appreciate the interest and input. This particular quote caught my eye, as it seems that what's mildly annoying or humorous to some is coming awfully close to "really spoiling everything" for others.
Perhaps the fact that I have resisted joining other message boards in the past has contributed to my relatively thin skin when it comes to this sort of (seemingly) unprovoked anger and vitriol. It seems that most of the people who are dismissing my position as whiny or overly sensitive have already learned to deal with this sort of thing in other forums, which I admittedly have not.
Regardless, Zann's point stands. It is ludicrously naive to think that the totality of the postings on a site called FRANKBLACK.NET do not have the potential to upset, embarrass or otherwise displease the artist and bandmates this site purports to respect and celebrate.
That doesn't mean people shouldn't feel free to criticize or critique the work of Frank or his compadres. After all, I thought that was the inherent purpose of the boards. It does mean that with each new immature and mean-spirited digression, the probability increases that the artist –or his agents– will not only distance themselves from this site (despite its positive aspects), but may ultimately take steps to curtail its existence –read: shut it down, effectively ending the FTP trading and intelligent fan interaction many of us really crave.
This may seem silly or unbelivable to many of you, but it goes on all the time with musicians and celebrities both more and less famous than this. If I were Frank (who has a longstanding and deserved reputation for not suffering fools gladly), I wouldn't want my name and work associated with a noticeably rude and juvenile undertaking. Anyone who assumes otherwise is –in my opinion– selling Mr. Black quite short.
So that's the crux of my point. I just want to see this forum and site continue to grow and eventually to earn the sort of legitimacy it does not yet have. I'll do my best to deal with and/or ignore the posts I find inappropriate, and I hope that those who feel these are just growing pains are correct.
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2002 : 12:10:59
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| Is it just me, or ever since all these "why are there jerks here?" posts started to pop up, there have been no more heinous arguments or anything of the like? Except in said posts. I think everyone seems to have got the point, the only thing keeping the obnoxious poster's memories alive are these threads. Plus talking about it is getting way too intellectual, some people are jerks, some aren't. Anyhow, I think it might be best to let these tipsy threads rest for awhile, since they've popped up we're not really talking about the muz-ak as much. |
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