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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
 Posted - 02/03/2004 : 02:11:44
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is this month.
Which is more fucked up, history, or the present? |
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1968 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 05:56:04
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I think they should start recognizing all of the great African-American actors, like Reginald Vel Johnson, Annie Joe Edwards, Scatman Crothers, Duane Jones, James Edwards, Fred Williamson, Robin Harris, and of course Rudy Ray Moore.
"You're muckin' with a G here!" |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 06:14:29
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I have not heard of any of those actors except for Scatman Crothers. Can you name some worthwhile films I should check out, TarTar?
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peace, I'm out |
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1968 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 07:49:06
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Annie Joe Edwards is an actress who has only appeared in a couple films, both directed by Woody Allen. I've only seen one of the ones she appears in, Bullets Over Broadway. In that, she plays a maid to gang boss Nick Valenti's girlfriend. She has maybe 10 lines in the film, but every one of them is hilarious. She really steals the show every time she is on camera. She may have appeared in a few other things besides the two Woody Allen movies, but I can't really remember what.
Duane Jones was Ben in Night of the Living Dead. I'm sure he's been in plenty more, but I know him as Ben from NOTLD.
Reginald VelJohnson was Carl Winslow on Family Matters. He was also in Die Hard, and was in Ghostbusters for a second, too... in fact, he plays a cop in all three roles I just mentioned. Guess he just has that look.
James Edwards played a fairly small role in Stanley Kubrick's "The Killing" as a parking lot attendant who one of the gang members is nice to until the character played by Edwards becomes inconvenient to be friendly with, and at that point the gang member throws racial slurs at Edwards' character. It's a very interesting scene.
Robin Harris was Sweet Dick Willey in the Spike Lee joint Do the Right Thing. His character is a riot and a half, long before the actual riot in the film takes place :) Do the Right Thing is an AWESOME film.
Rudy Ray Moore is none other than the supreme pimp himself, Dolemite, muthafucka. Dolemite is one of the all-time greatest Blaxploitation films. "Doletmite is my name, and fuckin' up muthafuckaz is my game!" It must be seen to be believed.
Fred Williamson was also a Blaxploitation star. I'd be lying if I said I knew him from any particular film from his era. I really only know him from From Dusk Till Dawn and I think I've seen him in a couple other movies in recent years. I really must find a video store that has a 70s Blaxploitation section.
As for Scatman Crothers, well, he's just a likeable guy. There's no mistaking the Scatman. Just no one else like him. Probably best known for his role in Kubrick's The Shining, and maybe for a small role in One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest. I also remember seeing him a Twilight Zone film.
"You're muckin' with a G here!" |
Edited by - TarTar on 02/03/2004 07:55:41 |
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1968 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 07:53:31
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I just remembered that both The Shining and One Flew had both Scatman Crothers and Jack Nicholson. I've just found out they were in two other movies together, The King of Marvin Gardens and The Fortune. I wonder if they were buds or just worked well together or it was all co-inky-dink.
"You're muckin' with a G here!" |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 07:58:18
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once you named movies I realized who a couple of those people were. Reginald VelJohnson ws damn good in the Die Hard movies, and I've seen Fred Williamson in a couple things: none of the blaxploitation stuff though
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peace, I'm out |
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GoddessTheory
= Cult of Ray =
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 08:20:34
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So they give February, the shortest and coldest month for Black History month.
When will it ever stop? |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 08:26:33
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it's not like that's all they got. Let's not forget Juneteenth!
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peace, I'm out |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 10:55:09
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I put it to you that the term "African American" is politically incorrect as many black people are not African. Americans are wat too hung up on being precise but lose sight of the objective in doing so. I'd be willing to bet that some American has gone to England and referenced blacks as "African Americans." We use black and AA interchangably when really it should just be "black." Other countries do not have this absurd preoccupation with dual national/cultural names. "African-English," "Irish-Japanese," I think not.
 "I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 11:29:09
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quote:
Originally posted by GoddessTheory
So they give February, the shortest and coldest month for Black History month.
When will it ever stop?
Even assuming the above is a joke, this should be of interest.
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmintro1.html
“We owe the celebration of Black History Month, and more importantly, the study of black history, to Dr. Carter G. Woodson. Born to parents who were former slaves, he spent his childhood working in the Kentucky coal mines and enrolled in high school at age twenty. He graduated within two years and later went on to earn a Ph.D. from Harvard. The scholar was disturbed to find in his studies that history books largely ignored the black American population—and when blacks did figure into the picture, it was generally in ways that reflected the inferior social position they were assigned at the time.
Established Journal of Negro History
Woodson, always one to act on his ambitions, decided to take on the challenge of writing black Americans into the nation's history. He established the Association for the Study of Negro Life and History (now called the Association for the Study of Afro-American Life and History) in 1915, and a year later founded the widely respected Journal of Negro History. In 1926, he launched Negro History Week as an initiative to bring national attention to the contributions of black people throughout American history.
Woodson chose the second week of February for Negro History Week because it marks the birthdays of two men who greatly influenced the black American population, Frederick Douglass and Abraham Lincoln. However, February has much more than Douglass and Lincoln to show for its significance in black American history. For example:
* February 23, 1868:
W. E. B. DuBois, important civil rights leader and co-founder of the NAACP, was born.
* February 3, 1870:
The 15th Amendment was passed, granting blacks the right to vote.
* February 25, 1870:
The first black U.S. senator, Hiram R. Revels (1822-1901), took his oath of office.
* February 12, 1909:
The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) was founded by a group of concerned black and white citizens in New York City.
* February 1, 1960:
In what would become a civil-rights movement milestone, a group of black Greensboro, N.C., college students began a sit-in at a segregated Woolworth's lunch counter.
* February 21, 1965:
Malcolm X, the militant leader who promoted Black Nationalism, was shot to death by three Black Muslims.”
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 11:49:09
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* February 19th, 1987:
Bill Cosby gets a lucrative endorsement contract for Jell-O Pudding Pops.
* February 21st, 1971:
A scientific study shows that black men really are genetically prone to larger penises
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peace, I'm out |
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cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
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Bryan Shepherd
- FB Fan -
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 18:32:23
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Scatman Crothers IS Hong Kong Phooey!
 I'm the guy from wonderland...& you will never understand... |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5456 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2004 : 23:00:32
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Was he really? I loved that show.
Scatman Crothers was also Love Boat many times. Playing the spoons. |
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interloper
= Cult of Ray =
440 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 05:34:05
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quote:
Originally posted by realmeanmotorscutor
I put it to you that the term "African American" is politically incorrect as many black people are not African. Americans are wat too hung up on being precise but lose sight of the objective in doing so. I'd be willing to bet that some American has gone to England and referenced blacks as "African Americans." We use black and AA interchangably when really it should just be "black." Other countries do not have this absurd preoccupation with dual national/cultural names. "African-English," "Irish-Japanese," I think not.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye"
I agree. African American is a phrase that only a white person could have come up with anyway, and I've never in my life heard a black person refer to another black person as African American. And besides, making feeble attemps to step around cultural oversensitivities will never solve anything.
Hand held shower nozzles are the demon enemy of the patriarch and should be destroyed. |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 06:17:56
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quote:
Originally posted by interloper
quote:
Originally posted by realmeanmotorscutor
I put it to you that the term "African American" is politically incorrect as many black people are not African. Americans are wat too hung up on being precise but lose sight of the objective in doing so. I'd be willing to bet that some American has gone to England and referenced blacks as "African Americans." We use black and AA interchangably when really it should just be "black." Other countries do not have this absurd preoccupation with dual national/cultural names. "African-English," "Irish-Japanese," I think not.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye"
I agree. African American is a phrase that only a white person could have come up with anyway, and I've never in my life heard a black person refer to another black person as African American. And besides, making feeble attemps to step around cultural oversensitivities will never solve anything.
Hand held shower nozzles are the demon enemy of the patriarch and should be destroyed.
Living in the deep south, I hear black people refer to themselves and others as African American all the time, mainly Baptist preacher types in overpriced suits
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peace, I'm out |
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interloper
= Cult of Ray =
440 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 06:43:07
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Yeah, preachers perhaps, local politicians, and the like. Im sure it goes on somewhere, but If I were African American, I'd want to be called black. It just sounds dorky, and if you think about it, merely attempting to make these labels correct is what keeps the divisions intact. We shouldn't even be talking or thinking about it. It keeps it in the forefront of everyones mind. Pride and declaration feed racism just as much as outright hate, one is definately worse than the other, but the way I see it, neither does anyone any good. As a sidenote, I found it interesting that when I last visited my grandmother, who lives way deep in the south, that people generally were much less aware of racial groups and labels and divisions, than say...Chicago. Seems like it would be the other way around.
Hand held shower nozzles are the demon enemy of the patriarch and should be destroyed. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 06:57:01
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quote:
Originally posted by mcmikeyLiving in the deep south, I hear black people refer to themselves and others as African American all the time, mainly Baptist preacher types in overpriced suits.
"Deep south", mcmikey? Where are you from, if I may ask? Just curious, 'cause for some reason lately, I keep hearing people calling KY and TN the "deep south" and I don't get it. I'm from Kentucky, and I'll be durned if Mississipi, Georgia, Alabama, etc. aren't the deep south. I'm white and I get freaked out traveling through there.
On topic, calling a demographic African American, Native American, Asian American, Hispanic/Latin American, Irish American (which used to be a bad thing) - I'm sure there are plenty of people that get put into one of these or another category that are either offended and/or technically don't even belong there even according to the arbitrary rules that designated them as such. The whole question is moot. If enough of them hate it, I would hope that they would speak up, and devise their own category, if it even must be done. The sensitivity at the time "African American" was chosen, was the color of one's skin, and origin was considered empowering, because (again, generally assumed) ancestry and culture are a source of pride and belonging that is not superficial like skin tone. If I had a signifier, it would be too damn long to type in this post, more than likely. Hmmmm, is "Mutt American" derrogatory?
"Wir müssen wissen. Wir werden wissen."/"Our house has seven doors, all are green...except one, which is yellow." |
Edited by - apl4eris on 02/04/2004 07:00:02 |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 07:01:01
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Arkansas. and I have news for you, TN and KY ARE the deep south. This is true not because they're as far south as you can go in the US but because they ARE what people think of when they think of the South: rednecks, racists, Bible Thumpers, etc.
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peace, I'm out |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 09:06:56
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I hope you weren't feeling defensive - I didn't mean to come across harshly at all - it was an honest question, because someone from Europe recently spoke of KY as the deep south, and it honestly confused me. I'm from Kentucky, and I have to say that surprisingly to me, having lived in Illinois and Ohio, I've seen just as many rednecks, racists, and bible-thumpers there as in KY. I've travelled to half of the states in the Union, and lived in England and travelled through Scotland - the same applies there. I'm just curious about the naming "deep south". It carries with it as much misleading and polarizing power as any other stereotype. The enemy is among us, so to speak. There are enclaves of bigots and hypocrits everywhere. Some couch and hide their beliefs and hatred in more "acceptable" clothing. Tribalism sucks.
Seriously, I'm just tired of people thinking all I eat is Kentucky Fried Chicken, that I handle snakes every Sunday, and that I go around barefoot and pregnant with my cousin's baby. It's my brother's dammit!!
"Wir müssen wissen. Wir werden wissen."/"Our house has seven doors, all are green...except one, which is yellow." |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 09:19:40
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
quote:
Originally posted by mcmikeyLiving in the deep south, I hear black people refer to themselves and others as African American all the time, mainly Baptist preacher types in overpriced suits.
"Deep south", mcmikey? Where are you from, if I may ask? Just curious, 'cause for some reason lately, I keep hearing people calling KY and TN the "deep south" and I don't get it. I'm from Kentucky, and I'll be durned if Mississipi, Georgia, Alabama, etc. aren't the deep south. I'm white and I get freaked out traveling through there.
On topic, calling a demographic African American, Native American, Asian American, Hispanic/Latin American, Irish American (which used to be a bad thing) - I'm sure there are plenty of people that get put into one of these or another category that are either offended and/or technically don't even belong there even according to the arbitrary rules that designated them as such. The whole question is moot. If enough of them hate it, I would hope that they would speak up, and devise their own category, if it even must be done. The sensitivity at the time "African American" was chosen, was the color of one's skin, and origin was considered empowering, because (again, generally assumed) ancestry and culture are a source of pride and belonging that is not superficial like skin tone. If I had a signifier, it would be too damn long to type in this post, more than likely. Hmmmm, is "Mutt American" derrogatory?
"Wir müssen wissen. Wir werden wissen."/"Our house has seven doors, all are green...except one, which is yellow."
I don't care whether they're offended or not; my concern is that it's stupid. I hear them refer to each other as A.A all the time and that makes no difference to me. I've decided that from now on if a black person insists on being called African American I'm going to tell them to shove it up their ass. Same goes for Irish, Italian, any of those silly little names. And besides (and I know you were only stating facts about what was thought, apl) ancestry and culture are absolutely superficial. I'm technically Irish but have no understanding or ties to that culture. To pretend I did would make me a giant phony. Many (not all) people with a who go by some hyphenated, national title don't know their culture either.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5456 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 10:25:17
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quote:
Originally posted by realmeanmotorscutor
I don't care whether they're offended or not; my concern is that it's stupid. I hear them refer to each other as A.A all the time and that makes no difference to me. I've decided that from now on if a black person insists on being called African American I'm going to tell them to shove it up their ass. Same goes for Irish, Italian, any of those silly little names. And besides (and I know you were only stating facts about what was thought, apl) ancestry and culture are absolutely superficial. I'm technically Irish but have no understanding or ties to that culture. To pretend I did would make me a giant phony. Many (not all) people with a who go by some hyphenated, national title don't know their culture either.
I don't think you are the one to judge how someone wants to call themselves. If someone wants to call themselves Japanese-American because they feel that their life is shaped by two cultures, how would someone else know enough about their life to tell them to "shove it up their ass".
You may not have many ties to your Irish ancestry, but you also don't have people making negative judgements about your intelligence or trustworthiness based on your skin color. I would think that people that are discriminated against would often find comfort within their own community and their ancestral ties. It's silly to say that ancestry and culture are superficial. They exist and they affect how we interact with each other. |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 10:35:44
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now don't get me wrong. I'm making no judgments about their intelligence based on skin color. The problem with a stance like mine is that I'm often mistaken for a racist. Please re-read my post as I make an effort to avoid generalizing. I am in a perfect place to judge the world, just as you are; just keep your eyes peeled and you'll see enough to qualify you as a judge. Of course there are people who have been shaped by two cultures but the pretentiousness of using the dual name bothers me. Like I said, there are some people who preach the wonders of their homeland without ever having seen it or even having any real knowledge of it themselves. To correct someone by saying something like, "please do not call me white, I am Irish American" shows a disgusting preoccupation with ancestry rather than individual character.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 10:45:39
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but wouldn't calling someone "white" show a preoccupation with color that some might consider disgusting?
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peace, I'm out |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 10:48:25
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nope
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 11:07:09
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that's a shocking generalization, scutor. You mean to tell me NOBODY could consider lumping people into categories based simply on color disgusting....or even perhaps, racist!??!?!
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peace, I'm out |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5456 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 11:18:03
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I didn't claim you were making racist assumptions, but I do claim that you don't know their backgrounds or how they are shaped by their ancestry. So, I think way too presumptious of you to say that dual names are pretentious or that someone else what they should be called.
I don't think your experience as an Irish American is very relevant. I'm assuming your ancestors, like mine, came to US over or around 100 years ago. We have no real connection to our "homelands" or ancestry. Other people are first or second generation Americans. Their immediate family is from the "homeland" or still speak the language. They may still travel back to the other country to see family. They are much, much more part of two cultures. Who are you to judge that they are being silly when they refer to themselves as Japanese American or Indian American? |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 11:53:40
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of course of course, all good points. my point is about pride though. I've posted about it before, supported myself well and was supported by others. I'm far too tired to try to recreate the argument and defend myself (up all night doing work you see). Pride is a killer, you can have culture and not be proud. There is a general attitude that accompanies declarations of nationality and culture and I will always find it excessive and proud. I suppose that's called hubris. Thou shall not depend on thy culture to establish thy character.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 11:56:57
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should you depend on a person's color to establish their character?
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peace, I'm out |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 12:42:50
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quote:
Originally posted by mcmikey
should you depend on a person's color to establish their character?
only in regard to liberal white guilt |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 12:43:53
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haha....that's good Erebus
but let's not forget conservative white misogyny
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peace, I'm out |
Edited by - mcmikey on 02/04/2004 12:45:05 |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 13:01:41
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This topic brings to mind the kid who was suspended (I think) from school for trying to win a African-American pageant or somesuch. It seemed like a natural because the kid was born and raised in Africa. He wasnt allowed to participate, though, because he is white and from South Africa. So, it really has nothing to do with Africa. It is about race identification.
I personally don't like it. Not just African-American, any of it. Once you are an American you are an American. You may be an American of fill-in-the-blank descent, but, you are a citizen of the US. If you're a Brit your a Brit and so on. But, if thats what someone wants to be called I will put my personal opinions aside and give-em-what-they-want. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5456 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 13:01:45
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quote:
Originally posted by realmeanmotorscutor
of course of course, all good points. my point is about pride though. I've posted about it before, supported myself well and was supported by others. I'm far too tired to try to recreate the argument and defend myself (up all night doing work you see). Pride is a killer, you can have culture and not be proud. There is a general attitude that accompanies declarations of nationality and culture and I will always find it excessive and proud. I suppose that's called hubris. Thou shall not depend on thy culture to establish thy character.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye"
Yeah, I was part of that debate.
I don't think saying "I'm Japanese-American" has to mean "look at me, I'm Japanese and American aren't I great". It can mean, "My background is that I am American, but my ancestors (and maybe my immediate family) are from Japan". It doesn't have to declare pride. |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 14:27:48
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I absolutely agree Darwin. I don't think there is anything wrong with descibring yourself and your heritage like that. I only mean that there are some people who walk live and breath this identification and "God Damn you to hell if you don't acknowledge it!"
It's hard to have this sort of coversation online because there are so many nuances of expression that can't come across. There are so many exceptions and bits of info lost or misunderstood.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 14:31:04
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I agree with that last paragraph wholeheartedly, scutor. And I think that's why there are as many arguments on this forum as there are, because it's very easy to misinterpret what's said when you can't hear inflection (for example, jokes that are taken seriously and end up pissing people off)
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peace, I'm out |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2004 : 14:41:34
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quote:
Originally posted by mcmikey
haha....that's good Erebus
but let's not forget conservative white misogyny
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peace, I'm out
or white male corporate aggression
"Cool Thing, come here, sit down,
there's something I got to ask you.
I just wanna know, what are you gonna do for me?
I mean, are you gonna liberate us girls
from white male corporate oppression?" |
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