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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
 Posted - 01/17/2004 : 21:13:23
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OK. So what do you all think we are really sending rovers to Mars for? Mining? Energy resources? A space station we won't have to share, since we sabataged the EU's rovers?  A place to set up an intelligence-gathering and/or defense base? For the boost in American pride or for political distraction? For the love of discovery, and/or better understanding of ourselves and our planet? To see if it has life on it? What for - why would we want to colonize it - to have governmental and corporate bodies acting in, in all honesty, a wholly ungovernable area (just trying to play all the angles here)? Because it has pretty reddish-colored landscapes? All, some, or none of the above? Some other reason(s) entirely?
Finally - is this where you really want your hard-earned money going? What do you tell yourself to make it ok? Don't get me wrong, I love exploration and am a total science-junkie, but doing the cost-benefit analysis for the average US citizen - what are we really getting? What did we get from those trips to the moon? What else are we doing up there, besides experiments with nematodes and Tang?
 What da ya want for nothing? ... a rubber biscuit? |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2004 : 21:39:53
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I guess it's natural evolution of our civilization...we're here on Earth, we've been to the moon, now Mars is the next thing after the moon. Maybe someday, far in the future, we'll actually live on Mars. Or maybe the world will 'end' before then. I dunno, things are getting pretty shitty here on earth!
This is definitely not where I want my money to go, though. It's pretty amazing to have this thing out there on Mars taking photos.
 "I joined the Cult of Clops / If I were you, I'd sleep with one eye open." |
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interloper
= Cult of Ray =
440 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2004 : 23:59:59
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I think space exploration should be number one on the spending budget. As a matter of pure postulation, perhaps someone somewhere has done the proper calculations, and realized just how quickly and how severely we're overpopulating ourselves. It's the biggest and most overlooked world problem...and I mean problem. I'll go along with the pro-lifers if they really need me that bad, but only after we colonize another planet.
Boy I took that one way off subject. Sorry.
Hand held shower nozzles are the demon enemy of the patriarch and should be destroyed. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5456 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 00:53:25
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I wonder how many of these rover missions to Mars could be sent given the money that has been spent on Iraq. I'll guess over a thousand of them. I will also guess that it cost less than a single space shuttle mission.
Alright I looked it up. The Mars mission cost about $820 million. Estimates of the costs of Iraq are all over the place. One source said $121 billion to $1.6 trillion. Another said $9 billion a month. Why worry about the cost of exploring Mars when we're pouring more money down the hole in Iraq. |
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ObfuscateByWill
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1887 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 01:25:04
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Why Go To Mars?
*Shka-pow! |
Edited by - ObfuscateByWill on 01/18/2004 05:50:22 |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 03:08:30
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When the Spanish queen sent the Conquistadores to their expeditions, I think it was more expensive in comparison of what it costs today to send people to Mars. But they discovered a couple of things, didn't they?
I think eating and drinking has never been the only human need, and making people dream a little has its cost. It could be only a very expensive Hollywood movie, that's all (I hope it won't turn into a Titanic, though).
Everybody is making fun of Bush here in Europe, and I must say he doesn't really correspond to the kind of guy I would like to run my own country (neither Jacques Chirac, BTW), but I think he has a very good understanding of human psychology, sometimes. Today, in many "developed" countries, people have lost the will to pursue really challenging objectives : most of them dream about paying themselves a Gucci purse.
I know I would be ready to risk my life and go to Mars. I'm fed up with Gucci.
Now virtually everyone's singing a Pixies song / But I still believe in the excellent joy of Frank Black |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 08:44:05
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I agree with Adnan.And from what i understand the Apollo project who brought the man on the moon costed 2$ a month for 5 years at all american citizens.i would be more than happy to have one coke less a month for the rest of my life if it would help get someone to mars.the only thing that i don't understand is why (with the cold war over and all) all the space agencies don't collaborate in order to spend their resources better.mars is by far too expensive and difficult a project to be carried out by one nation only.
 join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 09:19:51
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Personally, i think these things are quite superfluous when you still have hungry people living in the streets..
Exploring the planets is definitely something we should do, but i think it would be better to do once we've finished exploring our options here to make life better for all who live here. |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 09:40:36
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You know, Dave, I can only agree with you. The fact is, people don't really care about those who are starving. Most of people see them in the streets, and don't care. Most of us in this forum live in developed countries, and buy records with their money. Well, we could all send this money to people who are hungry, couldn't we?
It's just the way our world works. And don't tell me that it is not right. I know it is not right.
Now virtually everyone's singing a Pixies song / But I still believe in the excellent joy of Frank Black |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 09:54:19
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again i'll have to agree with adnan.space exploration isn't the only expensive project of humanity and of course it isn't the most useless.the american army(and armies in general) is a fine example of hard earned tax money thrown away.i mean i prefer a new mars project to the new american tactical nuke(the one they plan to use to bust terrorist hideouts).i'm afraid that it's just the human mentality that will not permit an equal world not the administration of resources.do you remember reagan's star wars?billions of dollars thrown away and with no result.we have the money to feed and dress everybody AND to go to mars but we simply will not do it.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 10:28:10
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You all make valid points, but I really was trying to find out why you think we are going to Mars, the Moon, the Space Station, etc.. Of course there are other problems that could be tangentially solved by exploration, and there are definitely numerous ways in which the American taxpayers' money is being squandered or at least being apportioned in a questionable manner - over half of Federal Income Taxes goes to the fuzzy bucket called "Defense". I was hoping to focus on what everyone thinks are the actual reasons our government and various corporations are doing this, not what our own reasons for doing it might be....
Why are "Star Wars" related programs and a massive space exploration program mutually exclusive? You are aware that placing tactical weapons in space/earth orbit is part of the National Security plan?
What da ya want for nothing? ... a rubber biscuit? |
Edited by - apl4eris on 01/18/2004 10:42:15 |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 10:28:10
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You all make valid points, but I really was trying to find out why you think we are going to Mars, the Moon, the Space Station, etc.. Of course there are other problems that could be tangentially solved by exploration, and there are definitely numerous ways in which the American taxpayers' money is being squandered or at least being apportioned in a questionable manner - over half of Federal Income Taxes goes to the fuzzy bucket called "Defense". I was hoping to focus on what everyone thinks are the actual reasons our government and various corporations are doing this, not what our own reasons for doing it might be....
Why are "Star Wars" related programs and a massive space exploration program mutually exclusive? You are aware that placing tactical weapons in space/earth orbit is part of the National Security plan?
What da ya want for nothing? ... a rubber biscuit? |
Edited by - apl4eris on 01/18/2004 10:42:15 |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 10:53:56
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i guess that the reasons are not so clear.every project of these proportions is bound to cary the aspirations of the people involved.so here's what i think:
1-Bush:wants it for popularity\prestige reasons
2-Military:we'll never know what the hell is in their minds.most probably some stupid idea to put nukes and spy sats in orbit under the cover of scientific research of some kind.
3-NASA\science world:just for the sake of it.science not always calculates the benefits of research.it's up to industry to make money out of new stuff
4-The World:it's fascinating to leave our planet for something new.merely a dream,one way like another to escape the miserable reality
my reasons:though the moon landing and the space station did not offer a benefit to my everyday life i still want to believe that us humans are destinated to see a bit further than our own home\city\country\planet.hopefully the space exploration projects will be the glue that will unite the world.and once united to a purpose the rest will be easier.just a dream of course.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 14:36:18
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of course
Now virtually everyone's singing a Pixies song / But I still believe in the excellent joy of Frank Black |
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SpudBoy
= Cult of Ray =
Equatorial Guinea
649 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 21:53:20
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I'll tell ya why they want to start a human occupied mission. It's part of the brainwashing the government honchos got after Area 51. It's the final step of their terrible plan to fulfill their mission, for you see...
Seriously, though. Mining and defense. Oil baron defense contractors run the US at the moment. Science is rarely thrown a small grant unless it can also be weaponized or sold. The purity of scientific pursuit for the sake of discovery alone breaks down under representative government. The feel-good factor is a fringe benefit. I only hope the EU doesn't go as far down that slippery slope and really is just looking for life and such, but I somehow doubt it.
 I looked for a cult to join, then decided to just play "Sink". Hey! I sank the LaBrea Tar Pits! |
Edited by - SpudBoy on 01/18/2004 22:23:16 |
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SpudBoy
= Cult of Ray =
Equatorial Guinea
649 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 21:53:20
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I'll tell ya why they want to start a human occupied mission. It's part of the brainwashing the government honchos got after Area 51. It's the final step of their terrible plan to fulfill their mission, for you see...
Seriously, though. Mining and defense. Oil baron defense contractors run the US at the moment. Science is rarely thrown a small grant unless it can also be weaponized or sold. The purity of scientific pursuit for the sake of discovery alone breaks down under representative government. The feel-good factor is a fringe benefit. I only hope the EU doesn't go as far down that slippery slope and really is just looking for life and such, but I somehow doubt it.
I looked for a cult to join, then decided to just play "Sink". Hey! I sank the LaBrea Tar Pits! |
Edited by - SpudBoy on 01/18/2004 22:23:16 |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 00:49:38
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heh - sorry apl!
I'd say 'popularity'. I think the Bush-admin were hesitant to do the Mars thing, but since it's gotten such great press, they're going with it now.
I can't say why they went otherwise...i'd like to think to explore and learn more about the universe....... |
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