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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
 Posted - 01/16/2004 : 07:09:19
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Steve Albini called Surfer Rosa "A patchwork pinch-loaf from a band at it's top-dollar best....blandly entertaining college rock." FB commented in a magazine a few years back that "If I record that album again, I would....". Dose Albini really hate the Pixies that much? I actually love the way he recorded Surfer Rosa...although, he did chop a few parts out of their songs!
CARL! |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 07:33:18
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| well apparently in the gouge documentary he was saying nice things |
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two reelers
* Dog in the Sand *
Austria
1036 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 07:47:15
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| i think, surfer rosa isn't produced at all. obviously albini just put on some microphones. it is the usual rough albini-style - if one can call it style. i mean, i don't dislike it, but the whole record doesn't sound like the producer had a hard work... |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 07:48:38
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quote:
Originally posted by PixieSteve
well apparently in the gouge documentary he was saying nice things
Duh, I forgot he was on that....silly me!
I think Albini's production 'style' involves sticking loads of obscure, old microphones 'round the studio, for that 'live' feel. Also, in that FB article I read, FB says Albini treated him like 'a jerk who did'nt know what he was doing.'
CARL! |
Edited by - Carl on 01/16/2004 07:51:23 |
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chango
- FB Fan -
57 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 07:54:36
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i'm the 1 out of a thousand that doesn't really care for surfer rosa over the other pixies discs. i hate the way that damn record sounds and i always say, "if i ever meet steve albini, i'll kick him in the nuts for what he did to the pixies".
and it's not just cause it's lo-fi, either. come on pilgrim is semi lo-fi, and that record sounds fucking great, then doolittle of course is beautiful, as are all the others. strange that the one everyone else considers a classic i look at as the weak link.
it just doesn't sound like it should to me... it's kinda thin.
anyways... my coupla cents.
it wasn't anything about anything |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 07:57:09
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Gotta disagree..it's probably my fave, that or Doolittle. Bossanova is a bit wishy-washy in places.
CARL! |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 08:24:59
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| After listening to the college radio show from boston in 1987 before come on pilgrim existed i realized that albini did nothing for the pixies in terms of producing, he just recorded what the pixies played. Look at gill norton however, im assuming it was his work that changed the doolittle demo's songs..Listen to the demo's of doolittle, then listen to doolittle, he did alot of pollishing and fitting im assuming, IE: debaser, number thirteen baby, wave of mutilation..etc. Probly why albini was never seen again. And ya i was never a fan of the way surfer rosa was recorded, i always thought it was lacking in sound quality, however now that im older and wiser i do appreciate the way it was recorded alot more now then before. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 08:28:37
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Yeah, I love Norton's production on Doolittle, too. But the next too...a little fuzzy...
CARL! |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 08:35:35
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| Ya i would agree somewhat on tromple le monde, that actually did sound like their was just too much going on, but not bossanova, thats a really good recording i think..of course tromple le monde rocks too so dont get me wrong. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 08:41:40
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Bossa gets the 'least-favorite' vote from fans, generally.
CARL! |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 08:58:25
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| Probly because some of the songs are in a surf style, more melo perhaps, i like those surfy songs , ana, havalina. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 09:13:42
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Yeah the surfy-stuff is cool...a lot of people think they 'mellowed' too much at this stage....
CARL! |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 10:20:45
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| You know whats kindof funny, i just thought of this but im sure its been said before, about the reunion..im sure their getting back together because of the fun of it, just to play together live im sure will be enjoyed by all of the pixies but think of how much money their probly worth right now..i mean they will probly have huge attendance at all of their shows that i hope their going to do..but also the possiblilty of a new record. Alot of people would buy a new pixies record...All of the pixies fans new or old would buy it..i bet even if they re recorded all of their old albums people would buy it, i would, and yes it is a bad idea, but im just stating that their market value has gone up alot over the years, with good reason too. Also it will be very interesting just watching this whole thing play out. sorry this has nothing to do with anything. |
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DruggedBunny
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
395 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 10:50:18
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He did say nice things in that Gouge thing, and Jeremy from the Bennies (I think) said he asked him about the above quote, and Albini told him he doesn't hate the Pixies at all. I know Frank said bad things about him in a magazine interview only a few years ago, and he never disses anybody! I assume they never got on that well and Albini wanted to piss him off at the time.
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 11:05:58
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i always hated Albini's fake modesty.in interviews people tell him stuff like "what a great job you did with surfer rosa" or "you gave nirvana's music a whole new sound" and he's always like "no big deal" "i don't like that record much" etc.he acts as if he had done better things that nobody cares about and people keep asking him about his more famous works.maybe i'm wrong but he takes himself much too seriously.i love Big Black though.
 join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
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MangyKid
- FB Fan -
170 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 14:07:50
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I like bossanova best, it's the most consistent and I can just play straight through without skipping anything. A bit mellow, but full of good tunes. And like I've said before, any band with a song like havalina and a song like rock music on the same album (together no less), and having both as good as they are, has got some sk1llz.
On a song by song basis, doolittle is best I think, surfer rosa a close second. |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 14:17:08
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I've never skipped a Pixies song in my life and never will.  |
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ShakeyShake
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1058 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 14:18:26
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Used to skip baileys walk a hell of a lot,dont mind so much now
"I joined the Cult of Frank / 28:06:42:12" |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 14:35:13
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I *hate hate hate* the Doolittle production...too...reverby...overproduced. I love Albini's sound. From Surfer Rosa to In Utero to the Breeders catalog. My only complaint about Surfer Rosa is that it isn't loud enough. In Utero is fucking *loud*.
 "I joined the Cult of Clops / If I were you, I'd sleep with one eye open." |
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model consumer
- FB Fan -
USA
128 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2004 : 19:05:28
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I have read that quote from Albini several times. He also talked shit about Kim Deal and her sister (Kelly?). Big deal. Talk is cheap. I've never met the guy, but I know people that have and he seems like a regular joe, like any of us, from all reports.
Albini was on the show VH1 did re the "best" (or whatever) 100 hard rock bands of all time. The Pixies made the list and he had nothing but praise for them.
The real genius of Albini, besides some of his songs (if you go for that sort of thing), is he is one of the original do-it-yourselfers in the underground rock scene and still is to this day. Yes he's gotten huge gigs like Nirvana, et al, and still does. However he records garage bands, underground bands, teenage bands, indie bands, just about every level of the band food chain-- literally just about anyone that wants to record with him, if they aren't total jackasses, and if they can make it to his studio, and work in to a reasonable schedule, etc etc. And he charges them a sliding scale fee based on what they want to do and what they can reasonably afford. When a major corporation is paying him he gouges them. How can you not respect what he does? Also, his studio was hand built by him and other musicians in Chicago. How cool is that? Sure he says a lot of shit that makes him sound like an asshole, but I don't know any guy, myself included, that hasn't. I think it's part of the masculine tendency to be an asshole at times. Either that or you're a pussy. But I'm rambling here. Albini's helped A LOT of bands, good bad and otherwise, record. Affordably, according to their ability to pay. There is NO ONE ELSE who does that. Correct me if I'm wrong. I personally know two different bands (composed of some of the same people) from southern Wisconsin in the early to mid 90s that recorded with him (they were not big names whatsoever, just local bands, underground, etc whatever you wanna call it). And they had nothing but good things to say about him. Love him or hate him (and I would agree with most of the criticisms posted here although I like lots of his music and lots of the recordings he's done) you've got to give him credit for what he's done for literally thousands of fellow musicians.
I think if I recall correctly one of the things Albini said about the Pixies at the time of Surfer Rosa was that they were kind of being bamboozled by the corporate powers that be. That's probably somewhat true. I think Mr. Thompson might even cop to that. You notice it's been a long time since he's put anything out on a "major" label.
The thing that I think all of us agree on about Albini's recording style, is that he records, not produces. Sometimes the vocals are too soft, maybe that is a tendancy he has in his mixes that is one thing I don't like. But he has always claimed to be someone who does the recording, NOT a "producer." I don't know if that's false modesty or just telling it like it is. Either way I don't give a fuck. He does refuse to be paid "points" out of respect for the band. (Points are percentage of sales (as I understand it) that big shot producers usually negotiate for or are offered.)
Bottom line: Albini walks the walk and puts the money where his mouth is. I think if I had the chance to meet him he'd probably remind me of some of my friends. I don't think his modesty is false. Oh well, just my 2 cents (more like 20 dollars) worth...
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"What's all I listen to? It's all freedom rock!" |
Edited by - model consumer on 01/16/2004 19:09:31 |
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Sheamus
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
345 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2004 : 00:47:28
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Brilliant post Model Consumer, and El Barto.
Capturing the pure "live" sound of a band in a recording and not have it sound like rubbish isn't actually an easy thing to do, but it's something Albini pulls off with all the class in the world.
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NATURE'S TIME IS CUBIC AND PERPETUAL. LINEAR TIME IS WRONG AND SUICIDAL |
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model consumer
- FB Fan -
USA
128 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2004 : 10:28:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Sheamus
Capturing the pure "live" sound of a band in a recording and not have it sound like rubbish isn't actually an easy thing to do, but it's something Albini pulls off with all the class in the world.
And it's something that The Catholics have done pretty well lately too, no? Funny how the recording philosophies seem to match up well in theory.
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"What's all I listen to? It's all freedom rock!" |
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a guy in a rover
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
535 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2004 : 12:00:30
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I think you can appreciate the different ways that both surfer rosa and the later pixies albums sound but the fact of the matter is you can actually here Norton's production whereas Albini merely seems to record. I'm not knocking that, it works terrificly on surfer rosa but you could hardly call it genius(although i appreciate his work in the industry as a whole, getting bands started etc.)
Anyway, back to the original point, anyone who says that about the pixies deserves poisining, and then given a placebo antidote, so they think they are okay but really they die slowly and painfully.Although i love Nortons production style, I have lost respect for him since i heard he produced Feeder records...geuhhh
"You are the son of a mother fucker"
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positivelySlime
- FB Fan -
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2004 : 17:46:46
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| I read something with Albini on the Pixies not a long time ago. They did multiple takes of songs, and Steve's critique in the tracks was whether or not they were "pussy" or "not pussy." He's a really impatient guy, apparently. According to Frank he is "a really nice guy, but he hates a lot of stuff." |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2004 : 05:42:00
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| Has anyone heard the Albini-produced "Killer-B" by Beachbuggy? A couple of songs on that remind me a little of the Pixies and it's no surprise that it's Albini's "production". |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2004 : 05:01:02
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I love the tinny, trashy sound of Rosa....and with Doolittle, the clunky, grinding-ok, I'm gonna get abstract here-'metal and wood' kinda sound of Norton's production. The monochrome cover art of both albums really suits 'em. Both Bossa+Monde got a little mushy and indistict, but I love the synthetic weird production on some of Monde...er, y'know what I mean...?
CARL. |
Edited by - Carl on 01/19/2004 05:02:09 |
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benji
> Teenager of the Year <
New Zealand
3426 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 02:17:15
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[Steve Albini] spent 2 weeks on the guitars and then one evening on the vocals. But the band don’t think they were influenced in any way by his work.
“It’s like recording a recor,” Charles says logically, “he’s just some dude, an engineer, a nice guy. He puts a little treble on, a little volume, a little this, a little of everything, that’s it really.”
i nabbed this from an article (Laughing Gnomes) in the New Musical Express, Oct 8, 1988.
seems to agree with things some of you have been saying.
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cook me some fucking eggs! |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 07:05:59
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| A little treble, a little volume...that sounds like Rosa, alright. |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 10:07:56
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I reckon, without wanting to be too contrary, that Gary Smith did the best production on Come On Pilgrim/Purple Tapes. There's still the really rough edge that emphasised the nature of the songs, but without going to Albini's extreme. I think Gil Norton, much as I love him, tended towards over-production eventually.
I can listen to COP, particularly, over and over, and the production doesn't grate at all, its just right.
I did some coursework for my Sound Engineering degree on Steve Albini, and came to the conclusion that he's doing everything for the right reason, even if that rubs some people up the wrong way. Whoever said his technique is stick a bunch of old mics in a room and press record is just about right, but I will say that Steve Albini gets the greatest drum sound I have ever ever heard. Phenomenal with bands like Low and McLusky.
The highlight of my course was doing a presentation on SA, cranking the volume, saying 'this is Kerosene by Big Black', then pressing play and watching as everyone recoiled in horror. That was sweet.
 "I joined the Cult Of Cheese/E-Damn!" |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 10:14:35
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| Pilgrim is kinda dirty sounding...it suits some of the songs, but some could have benefitted from a cleaner production. |
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benji
> Teenager of the Year <
New Zealand
3426 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 01:07:02
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i remember reading somewhere many years ago how albini had like 15 mics positioned in and around the drum kit and fuck all elsewhere....
but it certainly sounds good.
personally, COP sounds kinda flat to me compared to SR.....
cook me some fucking eggs! |
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interloper
= Cult of Ray =
440 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 05:27:01
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Im with model consumer. I love Steve Albini's work. The fact that he's so outspoken about so many things makes him an easy target. His productions are wonderful in that they don't interfere with the band. From what I've read, he doesn't like using compression so the band's sound comes across as it should. The loud parts come out of your stereo loud, and the quiet parts come out of your stereo quiet (see Cactus, you have to turn it up to hear the beginning). Not everything is supposed to sound like the Beatles, especially loud rock bands, and besides all that, he gets the best drum sounds around. Check out the Plant/Page record he did. It's the best thing those dorks have done since that band broke up. Or The Jesus Lizard, or PJ Harvey Rid of Me, or blah blah blah.
Hand held shower nozzles are the demon enemy of the patriarch and should be destroyed. |
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benji
> Teenager of the Year <
New Zealand
3426 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 05:46:49
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i do not universally like albini's work...in fact he's been more miss than hit lately.
i don't like the job he did on:
Godspeed You Black Emperor! - yanqui uxo
Mogwai - my father my king (he butchered this one!)
Low - things we lost in the fire (i think it was this one he did)
the only recent one i can think of liking is title tk.....
cook me some fucking eggs! |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 06:35:32
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| I saw Page and Plant live some years ago...I wonder if they like the Pixies, R.E the Albini connection... |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 15:43:30
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To hear the difference he can make listen to mclusky's first album and then their second produced by Albini. Granted the songs are better but they sound so so great. Particularly the drums.
Roses Are Red, Violets Are Blue, Sugar Is Sweet...Im Gonna Break Your Face. |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 16:07:29
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I disagree with ya, benji, you big gay dog, I think 'Things We Lost In The Fire' sounds absolutely fantastic.
"I joined the Cult Of Cheese/E-Damn!" |
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