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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
 Posted - 01/07/2004 : 12:35:10
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right, he made the choice to try it. but I mean...hmm...I think you know what I mean. I don't think anyone tries anything just to get addicted to it.
 "Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!" |
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 12:44:35
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not even prison sex?
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MAMASAYMAMASAMAMACOOSA |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 12:47:07
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that's only you...atleast I hope so..
"Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!" |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 12:47:15
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Agreed, but who doesn't know heroin is addictive.
Can smokers, alcoholics or even VLTers be absolved of all responsiblity for their addictions as well simply because they regret it? |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 12:50:32
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no, of course not, that's not what I meant. I guess he tried it because he has some strange stomach condition and it soothed it for a while...so he was literally "self-medicating"...then he became addicted. I mean...personally...I don't see any good things about smoking, alcohol, or drugs...but who knows. But I agree that, ultimately, it's their unfortunate fault that they became an addict to something.
"Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!" |
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 13:34:39
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oh come on....I bet your boy gunn drinks and smokes like a sailor....and dont you want to be like him when you grow up???
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ALL I NEED IS THE AIR THAT I BREATHE,
AND TO LOVE YOU |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 13:36:30
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GUNN?! NEVER! TAKE IT BACK! TAKE IT BACK!!! YOU'RE LYING!! *cries*
"Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!" |
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 13:39:23
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you mean you didn't notice his glassy eyes, and those strange scabs on his arms???
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ALL I NEED IS THE AIR THAT I BREATHE,
AND TO LOVE YOU |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 13:43:26
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quote:
Originally posted by TheCroutonFuton
I guess he tried it because he has some strange stomach condition and it soothed it for a while...so he was literally "self-medicating"...
Well he didn't know before he did it the first time that it would in any way help his stomach condition
Join the Cult Of Gunn / and you'll never need a hair stylist again" |
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 13:47:23
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personally, I think all that stomach condition stuff was just a way to put a positive spin on it. "hey, he did heroin, but it was because no other legitimate medications would help this mystery illness". I'm with you, Nimrodjr.
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ALL I NEED IS THE AIR THAT I BREATHE,
AND TO LOVE YOU |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 15:27:42
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I was obsessed with Nirvana for a good number of years. They were the only band I would listen to for the longest time, so I explored much of the history and such. My favorite album would probably have to be In Utero. I just love the production of it and every song on there is excellent.
Have you guys read Heavier Than Heaven? It's an excellent book. The problem is really, was all of it true? I mean, some of it, especially the chapter about his suicide, is obviously stretched to fiction in a way, but it reveals a lot about his life. The unfortunate thing is that Courtney was able to oversee the writing of it to an extent, so who knows how much she was able to fudge.
Before I ever read that book I was pretty convinced that Courtney had something to do with his death. After reading it, I was pretty convinced that he killed himself. Maybe that's what the book really wants to make you think. It talked a hell of a lot more about his struggles with heroin than anything else...about the number of times he OD'd, for instance. He definitely had serious problems. I figure, if he hadn't killed himself then, he would have eventually unless he really got some serious help. He seemed to be a very sad and very disturbed individual, bent on dying young. Some of the book is very depressing, especially near the end...I guess Kurt tried to call Courtney the night before he died but the hotel lobby wouldn't put him through; something like that.
I recommend to anyone who hasn't read the book to really give it a good read. I don't normally read but the book engaged me from beginning to the end, and I was able to finish it in a couple of days.
There are still things about the evidence that are unsettling. The use of his credit card days after he died, the gun wiped clean of finger prints, the amount of heroin he had in him (although, from what it seems, he was able to handle a LOT of it), the suicide note and handwriting...
 "I joined the Cult of Clops / If I were you, I'd sleep with one eye open." |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 15:38:44
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he can't handle as much as was in his system...he had enough in him to kill atleast 2 junkies over. 3 regular people. seriously...he couldn't have shot himself after that, he would have been incapacitated immediately, but yeah...it's kinda weird...did you know that courtney actually put out fake pictures of Kurt's suicide? It showed him with his head basically blown apart and stuff...but there was only a puddle of blood next to his head when they found him. not like brain splattered all over like in the fabricated pictures...why she would do that? I don't know..
"Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!" |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 19:09:54
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
I was obsessed with Nirvana for a good number of years. They were the only band I would listen to for the longest time, so I explored much of the history and such. My favorite album would probably have to be In Utero. I just love the production of it and every song on there is excellent.
Have you guys read Heavier Than Heaven? It's an excellent book. The problem is really, was all of it true? I mean, some of it, especially the chapter about his suicide, is obviously stretched to fiction in a way, but it reveals a lot about his life. The unfortunate thing is that Courtney was able to oversee the writing of it to an extent, so who knows how much she was able to fudge.
Before I ever read that book I was pretty convinced that Courtney had something to do with his death. After reading it, I was pretty convinced that he killed himself. Maybe that's what the book really wants to make you think. It talked a hell of a lot more about his struggles with heroin than anything else...about the number of times he OD'd, for instance. He definitely had serious problems. I figure, if he hadn't killed himself then, he would have eventually unless he really got some serious help. He seemed to be a very sad and very disturbed individual, bent on dying young. Some of the book is very depressing, especially near the end...I guess Kurt tried to call Courtney the night before he died but the hotel lobby wouldn't put him through; something like that.
I recommend to anyone who hasn't read the book to really give it a good read. I don't normally read but the book engaged me from beginning to the end, and I was able to finish it in a couple of days.
There are still things about the evidence that are unsettling. The use of his credit card days after he died, the gun wiped clean of finger prints, the amount of heroin he had in him (although, from what it seems, he was able to handle a LOT of it), the suicide note and handwriting...
They used to be the only thing I listened to also and I thought he was murdered until I read Heavier Than Heaven and I'm now pretty convinced it was suicide or like you said, he would have killed himself sooner or later even if he was murdered. It was a good book and the guy was definitely very messed up. I still haven't read all the diaries, just bits and pieces, but there's some very interesting stuff in there. I do find it very sick and distasteful however that his personal journal that he didn't mean for anyone to read was published and sold in bookstores all accross the world after his death.
Join the Cult Of Gunn / and you'll never need a hair stylist again" |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 19:15:41
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Yeah...courtney the bitch got somewhere around 5 million dollars for it...
"Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!" |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 21:21:56
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| KURT AND COURTNEY was interesting, but Nick Broomfield is a coward as a documentarian, as far as i'm concerned. at one point in the film, the question is posed to him "what is your opinion about Courtney?" and he says some bullshit about how he "doesn't have an opinion" and that he was merely trying to "present things objectively" etc.. give me a break. the film is clearly slanted towards Courtney being an evil bitch, which she probably is.. but he should be able to share his opinion too. even though he's the documentarian, that doesn't mean he's exempt from having an opinon.. (and it's clear in the film how highly he thinks of her).. he made the film, he should have the balls to say what he thinks of it. |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 22:26:45
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| I like the song "Radio Friendly Unit Shifter". "In Bloom" is very well written. Very catchy songs? Is catchiness enough? Should that be the one factor that determines a song's quality? |
Edited by - IceCream on 01/08/2004 00:04:27 |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 23:18:59
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| You are way too logical, IceCream. I never once thought about their simple chord progression, or the 4/4 time of their songs or anything else. I would say that the skill (or lack of, in some people's opinion) that Nirvana possessed as musicians was not what made them great, but rather the feelings that they evoked in the listener. I know it sounds cheesy, but when I was a teenager I used to eat that shit up because the music reflected the way I felt. Kurt Cobain seemed unaccustomed to popularity; he didn't seem to feel as though he deserved it. I think that on the inside (although I fully concede I will never know) he felt like a sham, and that came across in his music. I can't pinpoint it, but there was SOMETHING there that made me come home every day after school, pop in a worn-out tape of Nevermind (and then later Bleach, In Utero, and Incesticide) and just veg out in my room, lying on the bed listening to the whole album in headphones in complete and utter contentment. |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2004 : 00:20:33
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Oh sure just delete a whole big ass chunk of your original message to make me look bad. =)
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2004 : 00:23:27
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haha, I noticed that too.
"Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!" |
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The Holiday Son
= Quote Accumulator =
France
2010 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2004 : 04:52:18
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quote:
Originally posted by TheCroutonFuton
I've been locked inside your heart-shaped box for weeks.
Ah..great song...great album. I think heart-shaped box may be my favorite nirvana song, not sure though. But In Utero is definitely my favorite nirvana album. What's is you Favorite Nirvana song and album?
I'm with you on that.
Best Song: Heart Shaped Box
Best album: In Utero
I also like a lot Verse Chorus Verse (Sappy?) and Drain You. |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2004 : 10:54:43
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| In Utero is my fave album, I don't know if I could pick a favourite song. I've been listening to "I Hate Myself and Want To Die", quite a bit lately, and I also love "Verse Chorus Verse". Favourite songs would be Drain You, Floyd the Barber, Aneursym, Radio Friendly Unit Shifter, Very Ape, tourettes, etc, etc. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2004 : 11:02:15
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 Cobain was a kind of soul-mate for a lot of depressed kids. Personally, I probably hung on his every word for a few years, which is kinda sad. The Pixies were probabaly their number-1 influence.
Carl |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2004 : 15:09:52
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quote:
Oh sure just delete a whole big ass chunk of your original message to make me look bad.
If it helps, I edited that before I read your message. About an hour after I wrote the post I thought "you know, I didn't really like what I said in that Nirvan thread so I think I'll change it". But thanks for the smiley face. |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2004 : 18:39:21
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I thought it might sound like I was serious if I didn't include some sort of indication otherwise
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2004 : 19:48:53
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Hmm.
I too was a very big Nirvana fan in my early teens, But I was also a HUGE Hole fan...and so have never thought Courtney killed him. The Kurt & COurtney doc makes me sick.
She is such an easy target for haterd. Its really sad. I admit, there were many puzzling things baout the evidence provided. But i think Kurt kinda likes that. I mean, we are still talking about it, 10 years on!
Re: Frances Bean. Despite her faults, I dont think any one should be taken away fromt heir mother, unlesss in serious danger. Courtney loves Frances, and is probably the only thing she has loved bar Kurt.
And i cant quite remember..but wasnt there stuff about Kurts mother being nasty, and crap..because thats where frances is now...
Re: Kurts Journal. I have not, and never intend to read them. I think its sick that somones diary has been published like that. Whether he said he wanted it or not. He was to thickle to make a decision like that. I could not read them. i just couldnt. And the money from ANY nirvana or kurt related items goes straight to Frances - lucky little girl! Courtney has more than enough from her own careers.
Keep On My Mean Side |
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