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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2003 : 06:49:28
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Given that this is a music forum, we often bring up mainstream/top 40 in disdain. There was a time when it was about music, now it's money, marketing, and image, in the mainstream at least. Slowly corporations sensed money inherent in such things and planted roots that grew and suffocated that which they were trying to harvest (and so they attempt to now grow stunted versions of musicians which look good but are all filler).
However, what about other forms of art? What about the movies, before everything went Hollywood? What about video games before Sierra became the huge heartless distributor they are now and EA Games bought up and development house they could since their teeth into? What about books before the New York Times best seller lists and the likes of Stephen King, Clive Cussler, and so on?
Has art always been this corrupted or rather had a corrupted side, or is this a relatively new development? Are all forms of art corrupted? One often enough sees some really great books on the best seller lists. But is there a whole undercurrent of really great books that forsake the mainstream publishers? Or is the fact that books are already a very time consuming and therefore inaccessible artform saving it from complete decay as we have seen with music?
We all know there are 'b-movies' whose very label is offensive if it is applied to all non-Hollywood studio ventures, and there are good ones, but how much of an undercurrent is there?
Basically, while we are all aware of the underground/indie scene in music, how much more slack do people give other art forms? I read the occasional Clive Cussler. I watch probably far more mainstream/garbage movies (American Wedding, for example <thumbs down raspberry> than b movies. I don't follow the art (in the sense of paintings/sculpture) scene anywhere near enough to know what's going on at the moment.
I'm not sure I have a point or a specific question to be answered, just trying to see what you guys think about the subject and maybe if you have some insights or thought. Call it a philosophy thread...
Finally, does accessibility of the medium directly correlate to the potential for corruption?
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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ObfuscateByWill
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1887 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 11:27:12
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*cringes*
*Shka-pow! |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 11:31:00
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i think with all artforms, it's always both: an artform and a business. i don't think that makes it "corrupt".. it's just the reality
(by the way, look! i'm posting!!) |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 11:39:28
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| You could say the artists and musicians, etc. of any era were corrupt, I mean cripes, you can't have product that is self-referential (anything of the human mind falls in that category) without being "corrupted" by it. The Renaissance was an incredible time for invention and creativity in the arts, but you could say that the Catholic church and the Medici family (or any patrons ever) corrupted or directed the artists' voice - but the voice still comes through, even the Sistine chapel, which Michaelangelo was pissed to have to do, ended up having a life and a meaning beyond the patron or the artist's personal politics. The beauty, or whatever it is that speaks to us, survives if the creator/artist is sufficiently inspired and talented. |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 11:50:24
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I think basically in a round a bout way, by nature of a certain perception of how we come to view things, that I sincerely, in a manner of speaking, can attribute a general idea of a sort of conclusive reasoning.
Therefore I would suggest a concurrence. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 12:02:02
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Yeah, maybe corrupted art is the wrong term since the point of my post is that clearly it's only a segment that is corrupted. Fair enough, art as business, then.
Perhaps it's been around for awhile, apl, and yeah, in the end, talent and inspiration are what lasts, but what will people listen to 30 years from now from OUR time. What are the 00's going to hold for the future?
I guess it comes down to wondering just how much else I'm missing out on with other art forms, since the rabbit hole goes so deep with music...
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 12:07:46
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Sorry - I didn't mean to come across flippantly or something. I think about this dilemma all the time, trying to figure out what the hell it means to try to be an artist in this day and age anyway. Yeah, there is a lot of crap out there, but, hell, I dunno. My brain hurst! Unintentional typo there, but it works....
So, in conclusion, Simon and Simon aren't brothers? |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 12:16:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
I guess it comes down to wondering just how much else I'm missing out on with other art forms, since the rabbit hole goes so deep with music...
yeah, i guess you'll never really know the answer to that. unfortunatly, talent isn't always rewarded.. with the way everything is set up (especially the music and film industries), it's so hard for new voices to be heard..
i like to think that if something is good enough, eventually it will rise up and get noticed, through word of mouth.. that happens, but probably not often enough.
i'm sure there's an amazing amount of quality work out there that slips through the cracks for one reason or another, but that's just the way it goes i guess..
there are ways of supporting underdog/struggling artists though, luckily.. and there are groups out there devoted to helping under-the-radar artists, but there could sure be more.. |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 12:19:43
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There could sure be!
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 12:20:38
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
there are ways of supporting underdog/struggling artists though, luckily.. and there are groups out there devoted to helping under-the-radar artists, but there could sure be more..
Hey, uh, floop? Just curious if you could do a girl a favor and tell a struggling artist who some of those groups might be? Am I missing something? (A resoundng "always!!!" from all the other voices in my head). |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 12:21:57
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quote:
Originally posted by the swimmer
There could sure be!
good one bro |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 12:25:09
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
quote:
Originally posted by floop
there are ways of supporting underdog/struggling artists though, luckily.. and there are groups out there devoted to helping under-the-radar artists, but there could sure be more..
Hey, uh, floop? Just curious if you could do a girl a favor and tell a struggling artist who some of those groups might be? Am I missing something? (A resoundng "always!!!" from all the other voices in my head).
i don't know.. i know that most of the Evil film studios do have outreach programs (Fox Searchlight is one of the best ones) that look for new talent.. and of course there are a small handfull of producers who actually care about quality, and introducing new voices (Christine Vachon, Ted Hope, Stephen Soderberg)..
i don't know about the fine art world, but i'm just assuming there must be some kind of scholarship funds out there whatnot, yes?
(que: lame comment from swimmer who is becoming increasingly [frighteningly] obsessed with me) |
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Crispy Water
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
819 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 12:48:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
I guess it comes down to wondering just how much else I'm missing out on with other art forms, since the rabbit hole goes so deep with music...
My assertion is that you're missing a lot, and my guess is that the reason for this is simply that your tastes direct you more toward music than anything else.
That's the case for me anyway. My outlets are music and writing, so I seek out the best possible examples of them wherever I may find them. Stuff like painting and dancing: I'm not involved, hell - I'm hardly even interested, so I'm not as inclined to discover that stuff.
I hadn't thought about it until a couple years ago when some chance encounters with people who are actually involved with some of this opened my eyes to the fact that there are many individuals who are creating art with little recognition. The fact there are a pretty good number in my area makes me believe they exist all over the place. It's work that I wouldn't even have heard anything about if not for having happened to meet a couple people that really are involved in a scene. Everyone's got a legendary figure or two - just the way we wait with baited breath for a Frank Black show, there are people who get as excited when they hear the newest sculpture from Donnie Whatshisnuts is going to be in town for awhile.
I think it's a bit different with music, it seems a band can often get a show based mainly on their enthusiasm - there are lots of stages waiting. For a writer, it's a much different story. Some of the best stuff I've ever read, though, is just out of someone's notebook, someone who writes because they feel like it knowing they'll never get published.
By the way, I've never heard of Clive Cussler; what kind of stuff does he write?
Nothing is ever something. |
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SpudBoy
= Cult of Ray =
Equatorial Guinea
649 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 17:20:38
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I think this one comes down to motivation. If a person is driven to create, they will create as much as they can in their voice. Sometimes they strike a nerve with a large group of people by stumbling onto a universal constant (or at least a strange attractor, in probability terms). This usually has a degree of what some might call integrity.
Capitalism is a funny thing, since the mega-monoliths of entertainment fascism have the bucks to throw at R&D (Clear Channel took in 72% of last year's live concert revenues) to see what tickles the hidden places of those with expendable cash, and align their investments toward manipulating those emotions. Your radio dial and local McRecord store reflect a mass experiment in sociology, and you're the lab rat. Booya.
So, who feels like a beer?
 I looked for a cult to join, then decided to just play "Sink". Hey! I sank Toledo, Ohio! |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 20:50:18
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I have to say, by no means have video games lost their appeal and turned into some horrible commodity. Video games have always been littered with companies trying to market things by attaching brand names (beginning with Atari? maybe earlier?), but for the most part the gaming market has pointed these games out and black listed them. They're achieving their status as an artform to this day. Max Payne? Half-Life? The Sims? The list goes on. It's pretty easy to recognize a shitty game. It's one of the human senses, I think...educated human, at least. I remember playing the Daikantana demo after all the hype, and thinking to myself "Wait...wait a minute. Is this really as bad as I think it is?" and sure enough, it bombed.
Hollywood fucking sucks. Working at a video store, it disgusts me the kinda shit these stupid hicks actually rent. Most of the movies released as of late have either been sequels, prequels, or remakes. How many fucking times do they have to remake Peter Pan? It makes me sick. I hate Hollywood.
The music industry also sucks my cock.
 "I joined the Cult of Clops / If I were you, I'd sleep with one eye open." |
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cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 22:01:49
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
So, in conclusion, Simon and Simon aren't brothers?
As much as I hate using the online parlance of our times...
LOL!!
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man =-
http://christophervanepps.iuma.com |
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Steak n Sabre
* Dog in the Sand *
Uzbekistan
1013 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 00:07:08
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quote:
Originally posted by SpudBoy
I think this one comes down to motivation. If a person is driven to create, they will create as much as they can in their voice. Sometimes they strike a nerve with a large group of people by stumbling onto a universal constant (or at least a strange attractor, in probability terms). This usually has a degree of what some might call integrity.
Capitalism is a funny thing, since the mega-monoliths of entertainment fascism have the bucks to throw at R&D (Clear Channel took in 72% of last year's live concert revenues) to see what tickles the hidden places of those with expendable cash, and align their investments toward manipulating those emotions. Your radio dial and local McRecord store reflect a mass experiment in sociology, and you're the lab rat. Booya.
So, who feels like a beer?
I looked for a cult to join, then decided to just play "Sink". Hey! I sank Toledo, Ohio!
I'll have a Blatz.... Welcome aboard Spudboy...
My take in two words: Exposure=Mediocrity
Flexibility, Service, Expertise: The Cult of Frank |
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Grizwald
- FB Fan -
Canada
100 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 05:35:19
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Yeah, I would have to agree with video games, But in some sence it seems to be getting better. Like whenever a game based on a movie came out it usta suck. But lately if you have played "Enter The Matrix" or anything else along those lines they seem to be the best games of the year. Just a thought but hollywood and gaming seem to be going hand in hand. The problem with games was that it was hard to develope a story line and characters or a uniqe concept, But with Games based on movies its all already laid out.
Cult Of Ray you say?, I mean The Cult Of J www.The-Cult.vze.com |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 05:39:36
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I have read a few articles over the last year or so which had the 'dumbing down' of the art world as their themes. The UK Turner Prize (the award that probably gets most publicity) epitomises this acceptance of second rate artistic endeavour. Some examples below:
Damien Hirst (1993 shortlisted)
The one where he halved a dead cow and calf and displayed them inside glass cases immersed in formaldehyde. Pure shock value in my opinion.
Tracey Emin (1999 shortlisted)
Top of my tree of pointless 'artists'. The glorious example below is called 'unmade bed'.
Martin Creed (2001 winner):
Surely this wins the prize for the least amount of effort ever required for a so called piece of art. Yes, the lights do go on and off, on and off, on and off....repeat ad nauseum.
Unfortunately there a lot of critics and general members of the public who take great delight in championing these 'gems'. The newspapers and magazines then write provocative articles with the tabloids usually denouncing them as rubbish. All adds to the publicity and notoriety.
I love 20th century art but detest the Turner Prize tat that emerged in the 1980's. I wonder if there will soon be no more values to shock and the proper artists out there will be able to drop back to mediums that actually require some kind of artistic skill and integrity.
 "I have been enslaved by the Cult of Ming / He is ever so merciless...unlike that nice Mr Black." |
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Grizwald
- FB Fan -
Canada
100 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 05:41:15
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What the fock is wrong with you man, That is some of the most disturbing shit I have ever seen?
Cult Of Ray you say?, I mean The Cult Of J www.The-Cult.vze.com |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 06:41:44
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
I have to say, by no means have video games lost their appeal and turned into some horrible commodity. Video games have always been littered with companies trying to market things by attaching brand names (beginning with Atari? maybe earlier?), but for the most part the gaming market has pointed these games out and black listed them. They're achieving their status as an artform to this day. Max Payne? Half-Life? The Sims? The list goes on. It's pretty easy to recognize a shitty game. It's one of the human senses, I think...educated human, at least. I remember playing the Daikantana demo after all the hype, and thinking to myself "Wait...wait a minute. Is this really as bad as I think it is?" and sure enough, it bombed.
Hollywood fucking sucks. Working at a video store, it disgusts me the kinda shit these stupid hicks actually rent. Most of the movies released as of late have either been sequels, prequels, or remakes. How many fucking times do they have to remake Peter Pan? It makes me sick. I hate Hollywood.
"I joined the Cult of Clops / If I were you, I'd sleep with one eye open."
I suppose I was thinking more a long the lines of computer games and not just video games in general. Yeah, there are still great games being made, some even by larger companies (like many of those listed, actually), but you have to have noticed the ratio of garbage:quality has gone through the roof. Deer Hunter? The million "Rollercoaster Tycoon" wannabes. The move from substantial plot and story in adventure to quick shoot-em-up first/third person shooters. When a game like Grim Fandango is sent to the land of the dead with atrocious sales and a game like Deer Hunter is number one (I HATE this 'game' by the way). Or a game like Full Throttle 2 is canned because adventure games don't sell well enough.
Arcade/console games have always been more (or even exclusively) about entertainment than art, and that's OK because you know what you're getting into. But when they start to kill the art, then I'm concerned, and this is exactly what's happening.
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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Grizwald
- FB Fan -
Canada
100 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 06:45:22
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Yes, Very good point. Anyone played "The Goonies" for the NES?
The Cult Of J www.The-Cult.vze.com VISIT IT NOW!!! |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 06:47:29
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quote:
Originally posted by bedrock_barney
I have read a few articles over the last year or so which had the 'dumbing down' of the art world as their themes. The UK Turner Prize (the award that probably gets most publicity) epitomises this acceptance of second rate artistic endeavour. Some examples below:
<images follow>
Yeah, I don't understand how any of those things you posted passes for art. Cool photos, yeah, but really, talent involved = close to none.
An empty room with the lights turning off? Oooh, symbolic. Or maybe it's just a cool skylight. Oh, I could pretend to make up meanings that not even the artist would admit to having considered, but really...
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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Grizwald
- FB Fan -
Canada
100 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 06:49:27
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Yeah I agree with you, Anyone played the goonies for the NES?
The Cult Of J www.The-Cult.vze.com VISIT IT NOW!!! |
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SpudBoy
= Cult of Ray =
Equatorial Guinea
649 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 16:29:43
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I think I did once but I might have been dreaming, or at least altered in some way at the time. Why? What's it to ya? I played my share of paperboy, if that counts.
I looked for a cult to join, then decided to just play "Sink". Hey! I sank Toledo, Ohio! |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 18:20:42
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visit the Mass Moca website. now there's some horrible art.
 "I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 18:53:43
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
I have to say, by no means have video games lost their appeal and turned into some horrible commodity. Video games have always been littered with companies trying to market things by attaching brand names (beginning with Atari? maybe earlier?), but for the most part the gaming market has pointed these games out and black listed them. They're achieving their status as an artform to this day. Max Payne? Half-Life? The Sims? The list goes on. It's pretty easy to recognize a shitty game. It's one of the human senses, I think...educated human, at least. I remember playing the Daikantana demo after all the hype, and thinking to myself "Wait...wait a minute. Is this really as bad as I think it is?" and sure enough, it bombed.
Hollywood fucking sucks. Working at a video store, it disgusts me the kinda shit these stupid hicks actually rent. Most of the movies released as of late have either been sequels, prequels, or remakes. How many fucking times do they have to remake Peter Pan? It makes me sick. I hate Hollywood.
The music industry also sucks my cock.
"I joined the Cult of Clops / If I were you, I'd sleep with one eye open."
Why do so many people that love video games (i.e. Max Payne and the like) dislike CGI movies and anything that remotely smacks of computer imagery? The processes for creating textures, models, people, movement etc in movies like "Final Fantasy" is pretty much the same as what goes into video games. If it's from the prospect that 3D animation is somehow "easy" then it seems unfounded to me. Let me tell you, that shit can be hard as hell sometimes. There are even websites online where you can go and download stock textures that are leftover from video games to use in 3D animation or whatever other creative application you want to.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 18:57:08
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quote:
Originally posted by glacial906
There are even websites online where you can go and download stock textures that are leftover from video games to use in 3D animation or whatever other creative application you want to.
Glacial, do you have a couple of links you could throw my way? That sounds like an early Christmas, to me. I had no idea - is this free as in beer or is there a catch? |
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Hayes
- FB Fan -
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 19:32:19
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| I'm confused now. I thought floop and the swimmer got banned for that whole group fight thing in the "gay man" thread. Personally, I dont think floop should have been banned. Swimmer's another story though |
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Hayes
- FB Fan -
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 19:35:54
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Originally posted by Dave Noisy
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 15:00:52
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Grizwald, The Swimmer, Stitches, Rockathon, Floop and Hordak have had their accounts locked off for a week.
See folks, there ya have it, but 3 of the folks from this group have posted on this thread since then. Did they lift the bans, or what?
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 19:39:34
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In response to apl4eris:
Well, my teacher mentioned one site this past semester, I can ask her when I go to class on Monday if you'd like. (Unfortunately, I haven't been able to devote as much time and energy to doing 3D this semester as I would've liked...)
There are alot of cool textures just floating around on the internet, though, that I've used in Photoshop projects and a few times in Cinema 4D, one of them is by Jeremy Engelman. His whole site is free.
http://www.art.net/~jeremy/photo/public_texture/
http://www.art.net/~jeremy/photo/public_texture/Set_I/page_06.htm
This one's actually made by Maxon, the company that produces the 3D animation program that I use:
http://www.maxoncomputer.com/resources_browse.asp?catID=4
Here is one picture that I did that I think you might like, apl:
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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Edited by - glacial906 on 12/04/2003 19:40:42 |
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JamesM
= Cult of Ray =
308 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 20:50:21
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In response to corporate "culture" having its way with art, effectively turning "art" into nothing more than a piece of criteria for a salesman to boost his figures with - well, I usually think that's the case. I've been strongly influenced by Theodor Adorno's aesthetic theory, as well as Hakim Bey / Peter Lamborn Wilson's "Immediatism" theory; in which humans can engage in a productive artistic society without being force-fed art with a golden spoon by multi-million dollar corporations - I'm not nearly intelligent enough to explain this, so I'd urge any of you to head to your local used book store and pick up Bey's collected essays on the subject, appropriately entitled, "Immediatism". It's a relatively easy read, as most existential philosophers ultimately are.
As far as videogames as art go - I'd say, er, no. I like video games, they're nice distractions, but these days I'd much rather buy a used video game off of a friend than head to Software Etc. and slap down 50 bones for a "nice little distraction." Has anyone played the game Xenogears? I swear to Christ, videogame nuts went absolutely apeshit over the "radical theological ideology" presented by this game, and hey, I'll agree, it's fun - but if Xenogears is the kind of game that unravels the Gordian knot of your faith, then you sir (or m'am), are a fucking idiot. Like I said, it's a fun little game, but if read out loud in dialog form, it would probably be called, "The Idiot's Guide to Gnostic Christianity and 19th Century Existentialism,". Even the sequels to the game are adopting the titles of Nietzsche's works as subtitles - I can't wait until "The Gay Science". I should also note that I'll soon be releasing, "MONOPOLY: PHILOSOPHY OF RIGHT; PHENOMENOLOGY EDITION".
-Jimmy M. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2003 : 09:46:58
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quote:
Originally posted by glacial906
In response to apl4eris:Well, my teacher mentioned one site this past semester, I can ask her when I go to class on Monday if you'd like.
Thanks for all that glacial! Free is good. Like the art (and the subject!) by the way (nice font - heheh ;)) |
Edited by - apl4eris on 12/05/2003 11:08:00 |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2003 : 10:28:27
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quote:
Why do so many people that love video games (i.e. Max Payne and the like) dislike CGI movies and anything that remotely smacks of computer imagery? The processes for creating textures, models, people, movement etc in movies like "Final Fantasy" is pretty much the same as what goes into video games. If it's from the prospect that 3D animation is somehow "easy" then it seems unfounded to me. Let me tell you, that shit can be hard as hell sometimes. There are even websites online where you can go and download stock textures that are leftover from video games to use in 3D animation or whatever other creative application you want to.
Because video games exist in the...well...computer graphics realm. It's not possible to make video games with human beings (well, except for Who Shot Johnny Rock? and the other bombs of the early 90s...remember those? holy shit!). Movies exist in reality. I hate CGI movies because they're so obviously fake and over the top. CGI is abused in movies...we already went over it. In conclusion, I hate it because it's so obviously fake and ruins the movie going experience.
"I joined the Cult of Clops / If I were you, I'd sleep with one eye open." |
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SpudBoy
= Cult of Ray =
Equatorial Guinea
649 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2003 : 14:45:44
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quote:
Originally posted by JamesM
I can't wait until "The Gay Science". I should also note that I'll soon be releasing, "MONOPOLY: PHILOSOPHY OF RIGHT; PHENOMENOLOGY EDITION".
I am actually waiting on Yahtzee - The Phrenology Edition!
IO PAN!! IO PAN PAN!!!
I looked for a cult to join, then decided to just play "Sink". Hey! I sank Toledo, Ohio! |
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TOTIPOTENT
- Master of Differentiation -
USA
247 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2003 : 22:08:21
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First, I apologize for not reading all of your post. I promise that I will.
I have two brothers and they are both artist - I wish that the mother fuckers were with the times and had some of their stuff on the web but that is not the case. My brothers are true artist in my mind because they do not care for the fame or the money. Maybe they consider themselves still in the student phase or something. Now do not get me wrong, my brothers have made plenty of money (and one still does) on their artwork (the other is currently trying to get his PhD).
All I know is that the arts have been a bad excuse to become a wealthy/powerful citizen. I place athletes with this group, also. Fuck all of their public opinions.
I just hate people that get lucky and make a dollar and call themselves artist/talented. Maybe that is way I am in the military getting paid $1665.00/month before taxes. <-- please do not be too shocked of this amount, because I do get a food, housing, clothing and medical allowance.
What happened to the days that one had to die before being appreciated for one's art?
 "I joined the Cult of Frank / 'Cause those damn search engines didn't do my site justice" |
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