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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
 Posted - 11/10/2003 : 12:08:25
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| I didn't hear anything but that would've been in the news I think. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 18:37:46
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Nope, haven't seen anything on my AR news wires..
They just found out the carcasses in that Chinese restaurant were coyotes tho:
quote:
Edmonton Journal
Autopsies have determined that animal carcasses found in a freezer of an Edmonton restaurant last week were coyotes and not dogs.
The carcasses - skinned, gutted and frozen - were found Nov. 4 in a walk-in freezer at Panda Garden Seafood Restaurant, 10507 Kingsway Avenue.
John Lear, a spokesman for Alberta Sustainable Resource Development, said Bob McClymont, a scientist with the fish and wildlife forensic laboratory, completed his autopsies on Monday.
McClymont compared the carcasses with scientific literature on wolves, dogs and coyotes. He made his conclusions after measuring the length of specific bones, and the positioning and size of the animals' teeth.
The autopsies failed to reveal the animals' ages or how they died, Lear said.
Because they had been gutted, it was also impossible to determine the sex of the animals, he said.
Investigators still want to find out if the coyotes were killed or acquired unlawfully, Lear said.
Under the Wildlife Act, it is illegal to sell the meat of any wild species.
For more on this story, pick up Tuesday’s Edmonton Journal.
© Copyright 2003 Edmonton Journal
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Crispy Water
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
819 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 20:33:41
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Maybe she meant some dude they knew named Howard...if so they were awfully lighthearted about it. I'm sure that's what she said - "Did you hear Howard died last week?"
Nothing is ever something. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2003 : 17:35:44
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hehe..possible!
Still haven't seen any mention in my AR wires. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 08:40:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Noisy
Nope, haven't seen anything on my AR news wires..
They just found out the carcasses in that Chinese restaurant were coyotes tho:
quote:
Edmonton Journal
Autopsies have determined that animal carcasses found in a freezer of an Edmonton restaurant last week were coyotes and not dogs.
The carcasses - skinned, gutted and frozen - were found Nov. 4 in a walk-in freezer at Panda Garden Seafood Restaurant, 10507 Kingsway Avenue.
John Lear, a spokesman for Alberta Sustainable Resource Development, said Bob McClymont, a scientist with the fish and wildlife forensic laboratory, completed his autopsies on Monday.
McClymont compared the carcasses with scientific literature on wolves, dogs and coyotes. He made his conclusions after measuring the length of specific bones, and the positioning and size of the animals' teeth.
The autopsies failed to reveal the animals' ages or how they died, Lear said.
Because they had been gutted, it was also impossible to determine the sex of the animals, he said.
Investigators still want to find out if the coyotes were killed or acquired unlawfully, Lear said.
Under the Wildlife Act, it is illegal to sell the meat of any wild species.
For more on this story, pick up Tuesday’s Edmonton Journal.
© Copyright 2003 Edmonton Journal
That is too gross!
I heard they tried to bribe the papers not to run that story. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2003 : 22:47:54
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Why?
Coyotes..dogs...pigs..all very smart, and seemingly edible.. =( |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 04:57:29
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| I'll back up Dave N on this one. If you are happy to eat a pig, lamb, baby deer etc then what is the (western) problem with eating the likes of dog, horse, or indeed coyote? |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 08:33:42
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| Because you're not allowed to serve uninspected meat, or mystery meat for that matter. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 08:41:57
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Plus some of these little restaurants here have been known to serve things like fish out of the North Saskatchewan river, which is not good at all or squab which are really some local pigeons.
I guess I just like to know what I'm eating and where the hell it came from. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 09:11:54
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| or at least that it didn't come from the back alley behind the restaurant. |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 09:20:11
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I agree with all those sentiments. I don't think I read the previous posts very carefully. I was approaching the topic from the viewpoint of a long time vegetarian who is somewhat amused by carnivore's perceptions of what they will and won't eat.
It's happenened in the UK also. I recall a news item recently where a so called meat supplier had been bypassing the very stringent laws relating to potentially contaminated meat. They did a hidden camera thingy and there was blood up the walls, over the floor, meat piled up in boxes on dirty floors etc. Not very pleasant. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 14:32:17
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But Carolyn..can you say you really know where your food comes from?
I'd argue a pigeon would be 'safer' than the dead chickens you find at the supermarket.
Same with a coyote vs. the pig.
One more thing you should know about your food: it's legal to have up to one teaspoon of pus per cup of milk. Drink up!
(Just to put this is puspective (ha) - imagine having your glass of milk, but before you can drink it, you have to down that tsp of pus...would you still drink it?)
I'll tell you one thing..us vegans and vegetarians know a hell of a lot more about where food comes from than most people. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 14:38:37
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Ha, I knew that was coming.
I guess I really don't.
I wouldn't want to eat the pigeons downtown tho, they've had enough McDonald's for everyone....
I don't drink milk (lactose kills me) |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 14:46:47
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Carolyn, if you really want to know what goes into those cheap sausages get yourself a copy of 'The Meat Machine' by Jan Walsh. Sort of Michael Moore does the meat industry.
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 14:50:53
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| You know what they say about ignorance tho. (Just kidding) |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 15:08:15
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I like sausage, but I feel like I have to actively keep myself from thinking about what I'm eating whenever I have it. That's probably a good sign I should quit eating it. I've quit eating hot dogs, but that's because I don't like them as much.
Now I'm feeling like I should quit eating salmon (or start paying top dollar for the wild fish), because of the salmon farms and frankenfish. That's going to be tough. |
Edited by - darwin on 11/14/2003 15:12:25 |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 23:59:24
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Never ending fodder for the vegan. =)
I really suggest people stop eating fishes period..
Farmed, as most should know, is dreadful.
Taken from the ocean, as people don't realize, is dreadful as well, wiping out the already exhausted 'stocks' (i prefer 'populations') not to mention the toxins from eating a creature from high on the food chain (bioaccumulation).
It's a lose-lose situation, and it's rather difficult telling which is the 'lesser of two evils'. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 08:37:07
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fishes,lol.
So let me get this straight, you don't want me to send you
an I love Alberta beef bumper sticker? JK
One question though, where does all this pus come from and how come there is so much of it? And no if I drank milk, that would be enough to make me stop, that's really disgusting. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 09:23:13
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It is disputable as to whether it is urban legend or an actual quote from Otto von Bismarck, but I've always liked the saying, anyway:
". . . I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages--the less you know about the process the more you respect the result." |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 09:24:53
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Also, there is plenty of crap/bugs/bug feces/microbes/insecticides/fertilizers/misc. (even a little on organic, which I try to buy wherever I can find it, the rest I grow) chemicals from rain and watering and run-off, bile, decomposed animals and animal dung and whatnot, on PLANTS (you can't wash it all off, and you can cook meat, and milk is pastuerized). I can take a little pus on the side as well, thank you.
edit: Wanted to add that I am against the wholesale inhumane industry that animal farming has become. I appreciate Temple Grandin's approach to methodical, learned, patient reformation of the means by which food animals are treated in the industry.
The industrialization of animal and plant agriculture/engineering is doing much long-lasting harm to plants, animals, the environment (water and soil) and HUMANS - IMHO, I believe *this* is where we are ultimately going to have to appeal to get any real results - show people what is happening to us as a result of our greedy/unthinking approach to food production/overall consumption behaviors. Unfortunately, not enough people are ever going to be concerned more for the well-being of defenseless animals and our environment over their own short-term needs, for both understandable AND also many selfish reasons. As well as the mammoth/impossible task of educating the overall populace about the complex structure of human activity and its effects - look at how impossible the US administration is being about accepting that there is actual global warming - most of the US public believes that it is a total myth, propogated by "environmentalist whackos" - damned ignorant, but it's futile to fight on "their" platform. Sorry for the rambling babble-fest. I don't know if I'm making any sense or just ticking people off with a bunch of ignorant statements. |
Edited by - apl4eris on 11/17/2003 09:45:51 |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 09:51:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Noisy
imagine having your glass of milk, but before you can drink it, you have to down that tsp of pus...would you still drink it?)
Just imagine taking those vitamin/mineral supplements you probably have to take without water... would you still be able to take them? Or if tofu was broken into trace elements, whatever they might be, I'm sure they wouldn't be as good pre-processing as post. Kind of a moot point, since I don't think the gross out factor is a good reason not to eat anything as you pointed out when you said that there's really no reason to be any more grossed out by eating a dog than a pig or a cow or...
That's all. I'm all for veganism for those who want to do so for ethical reasons, but to defend it by saying that all other food is gross is a little short sighted and maybe a reflection of society becoming a little TOO pampered. Myself included, of course. I was peeling a pomegranite and found a little worm in it and threw the whole thing away. Wuss!
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2003 : 19:17:20
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Carolyn - since over 50% of cows have mastitus and other infections, it gets in there. Big time. There's more, but it's to be filtered out.
apl - true, all that stuff is on plants..at least our bodies are meant to digest it, which cannot be said about dairy (remember that most of the human population is lactose intollerant, and it's only a MUTATION in our genes that allow most caucasians to produce latase after weaning..)
Dean - rather poor comparrison there, i want the trace elements in my tofu (and mine is made with organic soy beans and filtered water, not too far from where i live).
And again, this does not compare to having a teaspoon of pus sitting in your glass of milk.
I doubt there are very many people who would WANT to consume pus, nor are many aware of how much is in milk.
I find that really gross. Maybe you don't, that's fine. I know there are other people who can appreciate that knowledge.
Pus or soy beans...no doubt which i'd choose in a second! |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 08:22:38
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I don't think our bodies were meant to digest these though: ..."/insecticides/fertilizers/misc. (even a little on organic, which I try to buy wherever I can find it, the rest I grow) chemicals from rain and watering and run-off,"... ...besides the cross fertilization with genetically modified plants that is impossible to completely prevent (e.g. "Starlink" corn...). I think I am more ticked off (to put it lightly) by Biotech and GMO industries' products and pesticides/antibiotics/hormones/other chemicals invading our crops and animal products.
IMHO it is a flawed argument to say that the vegan lifestyle is necessarily healthier or more natural to the human digestive system than the omnivorous kind. There are many types of digestive genes, and you can choose organically fed, non-hormone, non-antibiotic, free-range, grass-fed, and more-humanely-farmed animal meats, poultry, dairy etc., just as you have to be careful which produce you buy, from where, and how you clean and prepare it. There are no guarantees of our food's safety in either case, however. Ecoli and other organisms are becoming more pronounced in produce and meats because of the unnatural feeding of corn to cows (complicated, but interesting issue) and pathogens are getting more resistant due to biotech and antibiotics, etc.
I'm curious to know, a few of my cousins and several friends are vegan and/or vegetarian, and the question the discussion always seems to distill down to is, can you get enough B Vitamins and Calcium without manufactured supplements (which are not exactly "all natural")? |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 08:55:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Noisy
Dean - rather poor comparrison there, i want the trace elements in my tofu (and mine is made with organic soy beans and filtered water, not too far from where i live).
Well, I do agree, but to be fair I couldn't think of an example of something that I know you eat that could be broken down into gross things. You know, like Cookie dough into raw egg, salt, butter, baking soda, a bunch of stuff you'd never eat on its own.
... I suppose mushrooms all by themselves are gross in all sorts of ways.
We're just too afraid of impurities and it's growing worse is the point I was trying to make. Ethically, I have a lot of respect for vegans and veganism. But if "it's gross" is the best we can do for justification, then we may have to try harder.
We're afraid of our kids getting dirty or bringing dirt in the home, so we scrub them to death. We're afraid of someone's germs being in our salad or sub or whatever, so we want to see them using rubber gloves. We're afraid of things we can't even see in our food, so we want it irradiated.
Where does this lead us? How long before we're afraid of things in the air and want to/make our kids where masks? How long before our bodies are so spoiled and weak that we can't even defend against the mildest of irritants. How long before we're so allergic to everything that society must publically consume, sell, produce only hypo-allergenic gruel.
So milk's got a little puss in it. So what? If you already drink it (and all of us probably have at least once in our life), you like the taste and it never bothered you when you didn't know, so what's the difference? If you don't want to drink milk because you think the cows are mistreated, that's fine, I respect that. I respect anyone who takes a stand for something they believe in, whether I agree with them or not. I'm certainly not trying to be personal, I just don't like scare tactics.
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 09:01:29
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
I'm curious to know, a few of my cousins and several friends are vegan and/or vegetarian, and the question the discussion always seems to distill down to is, can you get enough B Vitamins and Calcium without manufactured supplements (which are not exactly "all natural")?
This one comes up a lot. I've been a vegi (lacto-v) for nearly 20 years. To clarify: no meat, no fish, very rarely eggs. I have never taken supplements in that time other than the odd Vitamin C tablet when I've been suffering from a heavy cold (which is pretty rare). I believe you can get all the B Vitamins from 'normal' fruit, vegetables, grains and cereals. I do eat Marmite (do you have that in the US? - yeast extract so therefore loads of B vitamins) on toast and in sandwiches. I'm not sure how vegans deal with Calcium but I'm sure Dave will enlighten us. My wife is also a vegi as well as our two daughters who are 6 and nearly 4. Our kids seem to be thriving without meat so far and I have no reason to believe that they will not continue to thrive. Remember there are entire populations in certain parts of the world that never eat meat. Sri Lanka springs to mind. I'm sure there are others.
 "I have been enslaved by the Cult of Ming / He is ever so merciless" |
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Coldheartofstone
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
2025 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 09:06:21
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It's no longer about necessity, it's people who sit on the couch and go to their fridge for some burgers, not out in the woods to hunt they're next meal.
Never take tacos from Satan... |
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LivER_FisH
- FB Fan -
South Africa
57 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 10:25:14
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hahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahaha
haha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha |
Edited by - LivER_FisH on 11/18/2003 10:27:40 |
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LivER_FisH
- FB Fan -
South Africa
57 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 10:30:02
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oh ya, we have marmite here in South Africa
and i meant to say by that pic... americans are weird sometimes |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 10:32:43
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| Ahem! Those are Canadians, BTW. If you're going to insult somebody's national identity ;) it's best to get their nationality right.... |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 13:59:27
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i think the americans and canadians of this board should have a fight. the canucks would whoop your ass, jen.
 "I joined the Cult of Trippy/...what was i singing again???" |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 14:08:01
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
Ahem! Those are Canadians, BTW. If you're going to insult somebody's national identity ;) it's best to get their nationality right....
You'd be surprised how many people say "American" of Canadians mistakingly and then when this is pointed out, go on to say there's no difference. And then they're only a few words away from me bludgeoning them with my verbose prattling.
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 14:15:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Brackish Girl
i think the americans and canadians of this board should have a fight. the canucks would whoop your ass, jen.
Poppycock! And what d'ya know about it anyway?
You wanna have a sass-out? I can roll with that. I got sass out the ass. Nyeah nyeah! =P |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 14:34:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
Ahem! Those are Canadians, BTW. If you're going to insult somebody's national identity ;) it's best to get their nationality right....
You'd be surprised how many people say "American" of Canadians mistakingly and then when this is pointed out, go on to say there's no difference. And then they're only a few words away from me bludgeoning them with my verbose prattling.
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened"
That's true, I've heard people say they're african american, funny. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 14:41:12
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Well, in that sense I suppose it's true since the name of the continent is North America, so technically everyone in the western hemisphere is American from Peru to Nunavut.
Unfortunately, the US has stolen the term 'American' and uses it in reference to people from the US, meaning that we need to rename our continents. :)
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2003 : 15:11:01
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| Yeah, that's always bugged me that the US did that. Or maybe it just happened? Or maybe it's just that it's a real mouthful to say United States citizen all the damn time, so they said "American" and then nobody else wanted to be associated with us? Or maybe it was just more psychological spin to increase our country's size (seemingly). There, I've made myself dizzy. |
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