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Foucaults Dog
- FB Fan -
Ireland
124 Posts |
 Posted - 10/08/2003 : 16:09:56
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Don't get me wrong, I would have never have thought of having one favourite band untill I discovered the Pixies, they ARE my favourite band, but I'm getting really sick of the distinction made between pixies and solo/FB&C stuff among the majority at FB shows. At the latest Dublin show (as happened at every other FB show that I've been to)the place goes wild for pixies tunes even when performances of post-pixies tunes are far superior in every way (Massif centrale really springs to mind at the last show).
I know that this is inevitable, but its really getting on my goat. After the last gig one of my mates reckoned that we should wear 'no pixies tunes' t-shirts to all future gigs...a step too far I think, but I get where he's coming from.
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Edited by - Foucaults Dog on 10/08/2003 16:13:16 |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2003 : 19:01:12
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They seemed almost equally received here, maybe a little more for the Pixies, but not enough that it was offensive. But that would be a little frustrating.
People, many of whom sounded like they had never heard a lot of his solo work, were getting super into songs like Jane and Nadine and so on.
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2003 : 20:22:48
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It always happens...people are always more enthused for the Pixies tunes. I'm not sure necessarily if it's because they like the Pixies more, or if it's just the shock and/or surprise that he's playing a Pixies song. I mean, of course you expect to hear some of your favorite tracks off his latest album, but when he busts out with Velouria, it's just like "WOAH NO WAY!" Frankly (heh heh), if I were in his shoes, I'd be slightly bummed that people are going apenuts over my work from 10 years ago vs my stuff that I'm promoting...ahh well, you can't blame em.
 "I joined the Cult of Frank / Did anyone else have to give up their first born?" |
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marcusb
= Cult of Ray =
USA
308 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2003 : 21:10:16
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| It's because Pixies tunes are considered "classics" among fans.. everyone will cheer for "Where Is My Mind?". His new stuff just needs to be broken in for some people.. they can't hear the song once and think of it as an instant classic whereas I heard "Horrible Day" for the first time and it was one of my faves.. in 10 years, everyones gonna go wild when he breaks out "All My Ghosts" or something.. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6213 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 00:34:56
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Los angeles and headache are classics to me
''it's not a box, it's a submarine'' |
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DruggedBunny
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
395 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 04:33:26
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More people know the Pixies' stuff so they respond louder to stuff they recognise. It is kinda annoying (maybe, secretly, a little irritating for FB too) but it's not too surprising...
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bazza
* Dog in the Sand *
Ireland
1439 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 04:48:10
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good point FD. i did think that a lot of the solo stuff went down really well though - especially from some of my friends who only know teenager and dog. i think massif and headache got the biggest cheers of the solo stuff.
Television! Teacher, mother, secret lover. |
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valine
- FB Fan -
Ireland
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 05:10:40
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| i could not agree more. in general, pixies covers are not a patch on the originals and still get the biggest cheer by far. at franks recent solo show in london he played the most god-awful version of the holiday song, with all the original venomous passion transposed into folky balladry. in other words, he murdered what was once an absolute corker. and what did the crowd do, they cheered and looked thrilled, telling each other, yeh, another pixies song. while stuff like cold heart of stone and new house of the pope was met with indifference. the pixies are dead; we are however incredibly lucky that fb is still making brilliant music, with a great band. surely people go to gigs looking for passion and excitement, not dull karaoke? play whatever inspires you frank, and please stop killing pixies tunes |
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Foucaults Dog
- FB Fan -
Ireland
124 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 05:29:43
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| Thanx folks, your replies have made me feel a bit less of a cynical old git |
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gary13th
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
632 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 05:49:15
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virtually all the new SMYT stuff went down really well in Sheffield. Pixies stuff went down really well. Headache went down really well, but some songs like Velvety and Chip away boy didnt go down as well...
the guys seemed buoyed that the new stuff went down really well.
They are about, dressed to deceive, architect David Vincent |
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jonathan
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
114 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 07:46:22
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It seems to me a simple solution would be a Pixies reunion tour (hehehe) on which only Pixies songs would be played, and Catholics tours with just his post Pixies work...
Comparing this tour to the 2001 Dog in the Sand tour I'd say a majority of gig goers this time round actually know Frank's work with the Catholics and appreciate it... the 3 gigs I made it to in 2001 about 90% of the crowd seemed just to know the Pixies stuff (except in France). |
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neilefc
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
14 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 08:15:59
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it’s not just fb/pixies.
i remember seeing joe strummer late 80s and when he played his new stuff, it was as if the crowd were looking at their watches until he sung white riot. understandably, he wasn’t exactly thrilled.
saw him last year in liverpool (his last ever gig) and he sung loads of clash and solo stuff, even though a lot of the audience were about three when the clash were going. seemed happy to sing whatever.
perhaps it’s just a load of young fans who missed out on the pixies first time and want to hear a few songs live.
if so, tough shit, you should have been born earlier. or maybe just wait until next year.
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 08:32:39
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quote:
Originally posted by jonathan
It seems to me a simple solution would be a Pixies reunion tour (hehehe) on which only Pixies songs would be played, and Catholics tours with just his post Pixies work...
Frank's worked like hell to avoid rigid set lists. Why on Earth would he want to go back to that?
 "I joined the cult of Mayer / And blew my fucking brains out" |
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jonathan
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
114 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 11:43:27
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quote:
Originally posted by BLT
quote:
Originally posted by jonathan
It seems to me a simple solution would be a Pixies reunion tour (hehehe) on which only Pixies songs would be played, and Catholics tours with just his post Pixies work...
Frank's worked like hell to avoid rigid set lists. Why on Earth would he want to go back to that?
"I joined the cult of Mayer / And blew my fucking brains out"
Not rigid set lists (though for all his efforts to avoid them, recent sets have been somewhat similar - maybe because Joe Kidd doesn't know how to drum all the songs) but to split the Catholics and Pixies songs to different bands... with a reunion of course... |
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PsychicTwin
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1772 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 14:32:25
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quote:
Originally posted by BLT
[quote]Originally posted by jonathan
"I joined the cult of Mayer / And blew my fucking brains out"
BLT, that sig is AWESOME
--> http://psychictwin.tripod.com <-- |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 16:31:52
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I have another version with a gun to his head, but I didn't want to offend our Canadian neighbors. :o)
"I joined the cult of Mayer / And blew my fucking brains out" |
Edited by - BLT on 10/09/2003 20:45:33 |
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evilmacca
- FB Fan -
2 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 16:49:36
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Foucaults Dog:
i can understand what you are saying, the band are trying to be their own band not the pixies.
my first Frank Black experiance was at his latest Norwich gig on tuesday. i was there because of my girlfriend, she is really into Frank Black and Pixies while i haddn't herd any of his solo stuff but knew a resonably amount of Pixies stuff. well yeah i did cheer loudest for the pixies songs and i did sing along, but that doesn't mean i didn't have a really good time during in his solo songs.
i missed the pixies first time round and that is as close i will probably get to them live, and i am glad that he still plays his older stuff. what occured to me though was how the band must feel, from what i herd they were very tight, professional and pleasure to hear and i do intend upon listening to more of their sutff, but they are trying to be their own band not the Pixies. i guess a balance is nice, well soon enough i plan on knowing the set list not just Velouria and Caribou. give us yougner listners a chance, we aren't all *that* bad. |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2003 : 22:00:54
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It's not just Frank.
Lou Reed, they always cheer for Velvets tunes/Transformer tunes.
Bowie, always the older stuff.
Gordan Gano can barely play anything other than stuff off the first VF album.
Malk didn't play any Pavement when I saw him, but I'm sure the crowd would go crazy.
Paul Mcartney...
It happens to everyone who's career spans different generations. People usually get into an artist with their first few albums. Once an artist has about 10, 11 albums under their belt they start working on a name-only basis for lots of people. "Oh Neil Young's playing, I have to see him!" Even if said person hasn't bought a Neil Young album since 1976. Just the way it is I guess. |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2003 : 04:20:14
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| ...and then there's the people who cheer like hell when they hear skeleton man, pong, 666, etc....I am among them. I find that I will cheer when Pixies tunes come up, but refrain from cheering wildly as it seems awkward, what, with everyone going nuts for nimrod's son. |
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the thing
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
313 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2003 : 05:59:04
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The weird thing is that no-one expects Kim to kick into a rendition of Gigantic at a Breeders gig!
I think Frank Black and the Catholics are beginning to own alot of the old Pixies songs live now - Gouge and Wave - Where is possibly too - they are less like Pixies covers - more a rounded part of the Franks back catalogue.
Everyone always goes ape-s**t for Headache - so maybe its more of a case that the oldies are the goodies....
My head was feeling scared, but my heart was feeling free |
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pudmeister
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
159 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2003 : 09:00:26
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quote:
It's not just Frank
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When the foo fighters first started, people were shouting for 'heart-shaped box'!
"Looking through the eyes of a pig I see it all" - Cypress Hill |
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parker_airspace
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
63 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2003 : 11:53:52
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i know where your coming from, i feel slightly embarrassed at this but i felt like it at the time.....
i was at the Sheffield gig last week (f***in amazing btw) and i was really enjoying the atmosphere too until halfway through the gig when he played 3 pixies songs in a row..... and low did the people in question bounce, and squeal, and shout ! .... although i love the pixies tunes I was fucking disgusted, that in this amazing gig, the thing that kicks off the crowd big-time, is the fucking pixies songs.....bah!!!!!!, my brother and I just stood there arms folded right at the front, both thinking the same thing.... "I'll be bolloxed if I'm going to show frank & the boys that I think the pixies material is better" ... yeah i might be an old fart, biased blah blah blah, and I do appreciate the fact that pixies material does tend to kick off the crowd, but it still left a very bad taste in the mouth.
I for one would be much happier if the crowd kicked off more with a catholics song.
i'd like to see the people who pine after the pixies so much stay away from fb&tc gigs.....contraversial but just my feelings, maybe it might let the rest of us make more noise when we want.
so there! (strop)
anywho, i hope i havent come across too frankist! (he says climbing off his soap-box)
- was smashed head on by a giant truck :( - Chris |
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davidvincent
- FB Fan -
8 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 04:07:53
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I agree- frank's stuff is more intricate than THE PIXIES... and tho' caribou and cactus were fun, i'd rather he dropped the pixies songs and played say, los angeles, czar and pong in their places......
FB was the best I've seen of him since '95 and the CATHOLIX have grown and are very very good........ so FRANK drop 'that band'- THEY WONT BE REFORMING btw, and play fb and fb and the c songs only...........THAT WILL GET SHOT OF THE NON FB FANS for sure.......and allow us to cheer for truly amazing songs- like BULLET, ROBERT ONION, MASSIF CENTRALE, THE SNAKE, etc, etc... |
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gary13th
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
632 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 08:58:31
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quote:
Originally posted by parker_airspace
i know where your coming from, i feel slightly embarrassed at this but i felt like it at the time.....
i was at the Sheffield gig last week (f***in amazing btw) and i was really enjoying the atmosphere too until halfway through the gig when he played 3 pixies songs in a row..... and low did the people in question bounce, and squeal, and shout ! .... although i love the pixies tunes I was fucking disgusted, that in this amazing gig, the thing that kicks off the crowd big-time, is the fucking pixies songs.....bah!!!!!!, my brother and I just stood there arms folded right at the front, both thinking the same thing.... "I'll be bolloxed if I'm going to show frank & the boys that I think the pixies material is better" ... yeah i might be an old fart, biased blah blah blah, and I do appreciate the fact that pixies material does tend to kick off the crowd, but it still left a very bad taste in the mouth.
I for one would be much happier if the crowd kicked off more with a catholics song.
i'd like to see the people who pine after the pixies so much stay away from fb&tc gigs.....contraversial but just my feelings, maybe it might let the rest of us make more noise when we want.
so there! (strop)
anywho, i hope i havent come across too frankist! (he says climbing off his soap-box)
- was smashed head on by a giant truck :( - Chris
i thought there was a good reception for the SMYT songs, well at least on the fringes where i was...
They are about, dressed to deceive, architect David Vincent |
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BrendanT
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
907 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 14:00:27
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I think any kind of raucaus elation is wanted by a performer. I mean even if bad press is good press then any kind of reply to a song is a good one. It may just be highlighting the ignorane of some that's all!
Strummer-man
I had me a vision!
It's step, hip, step, pivot! Are you trying to piss-off the volcano?! |
Edited by - BrendanT on 10/12/2003 02:31:28 |
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mark t
- FB Fan -
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2003 : 08:02:23
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| unless you're a musician who plays to a live audience every night,week after week, with so much to cover over the course of the whole tour its hard to say why he plays what songs. but i bet by the end of the tour he'll be playing a different mix than he is now. thats just the way it goes sometimes. if you're lucky enough to see all the shows , thats the best. CUZ |
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leokearse
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2003 : 03:22:54
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the new stuff tends to be a bit slower than the pixies stuff - it's hard to go wild to I'll Be Blue.
and of course songs like Gouge Away are better than anything ever.
that said, people went mad for Robert Onion, Headache and Hermaphroditos...as they should.
- Leo |
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Foucaults Dog
- FB Fan -
Ireland
124 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2003 : 06:59:02
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I'm not anti-pixies tunes... I'm quite ambivalent about this whole deal and wouldn't even go as far as some in regarding them as 'pixies covers' (as at the end of the day they're the fruits of Mr. Thompson). I must admit that the first time I heard FB&C do monkeys gone to heaven and wave of mutilation I was consumed by a very large lump in my throat that brought me right back to the last time I saw the Pixies, however, I just wish (perhaps showing my personal disposition towards utopianism) that the majority of the crowd could learn to love and appreciate the multitude of jewels that FB and FB&C have brought to us.
It's a tricky one, I still like to hear the old songs of my teens but at the same time they come at the cost of missing out on more contemporary favourites... I suppose we can never have it all, and on the bright side , it's good to be left wanting more. |
Edited by - Foucaults Dog on 10/15/2003 07:00:32 |
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mark t
- FB Fan -
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2003 : 07:28:25
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| yes and i'm sure there will be more just look @ his track record ...always another album to do .. cause baby needs a new pair of shoe. by the way the title is "monkey gone to heaven" although he does sing this monkey"s gone to heaven. you always have to write new material just because of the change is good thing, but the old pixies tunes are like your favourite pair of jeans...they always feel good when you wear (hear) them. hurricane jake |
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jo
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2003 : 15:19:44
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quote:
Originally posted by the thing
The weird thing is that no-one expects Kim to kick into a rendition of Gigantic at a Breeders gig!
considering The Breeders encored with Gigantic at their gigs this year (started in Australia) think it might be more the norm now... Kelley wasn't on stage with them, but thats all I know... |
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DrWorm
- FB Fan -
81 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2003 : 16:59:16
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I am one of those fans that went nuts at my first frank show. I had NO idea he would be covering any pixies songs at all. I have always stayed away from concert news, song listings from other shows, becuase i wanted my first Frank live show to be 100% original, and surprising. I did'nt wanna hear anything about it, untll I heard it with my own ears first.
So the David Lovering magic show has ended... the curtains close.. you can see ppl ruffling the curtain, and i'm on the tip of my toes waiting to see what his first song will be .. Los Angeles? Headache? mebbie Bullet?? no... none of these. Before the curtains open I hear the opening guitar rift to Where Is My Mind? could I ask for a better show opener / surprise? omg. it turned out to be the best show I have ever seen. It was on his last tour the Dallas/Ft Worth he played at Trees. I got to hear live Pixies songs (i totally missed out on the pixies era), then all my favorite frank songs (except Chip Away Boy) PLUS songs from Show Me Your Tears, which I had never heard before. And the fact that he recorded SMYT live with no editing, makes it the closest in comparison of CD to Concert/Live Performance CD that I own. Frank is the only show I've been to, that i liked his live performances more than the CD version. On the way home, I listened to some Frank, and it just wasn't the same as seeing him live, wether he's singing classic Pixies songs (gouge away) or his new stuff, or his solo stuff.
 "Mister, would you please help my pony? / I think it's his lung" |
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black franciscan
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
68 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2003 : 03:51:43
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This is a little late in the day I s'pose but for what it's worth...
My first Frank gig was the beginning of '01 - I was just stoked to be seeing Frank who I got into via the Pixies and followed his career from 'Frank Black' onwards.
I understand the 'Pixies' gripe, though back in '01 I was well impressed to hear everyone singing along to the Pixies tunes but over the last few gigs I just think Franks in a whole new league. He could play all day using material from his last 4 albums alone and it would be, for me, the best gig available to me in the world right now. (I was at Edinburgh a couple of weeks ago and I thought he was atempting this feat within 90 mins)
In short, for me, he no doesn't need to play the Pixies stuff, (to many he never has) but he clearly enjoys doing it. The intro to Velouria (his first encore) at Edinburgh, raisied a huge cheer from the crowd which inturn created a huge grin on the man himself. This is classic material and he knows it just as well as us. Who wouldn't want to play it if that was their tune..?!
At the same time, Massif Central (to me an instant classic, and recieved like one at Edinburgh) created a huge mess of mosh of fans who clearly love this new stuff and know every word less only a week or so after release.
It must be said though that I would love a studio recorded version of Gauge away as I heard it a couple of years ago, again in Edinburgh. As many of you will know it opens with Rich Gilbert with a new extended organ intro which only builds the tension to the classic two notes from lead guitar...and frank screaming out the second line having omitted the first. To me it's a welcome return and revision of what many old schoolers would class untouchable.
And lets face it - he's always been at odds with critics, and many fans. Cries of going soft when 'Bossanova' came out..!? And who would have advised him to quit the band back in '91..? But he came out on top. Always keeping it new and moving...
Sorry, over long and over due but to conclude (nearly) Frank is the only artist that I could truly say that when asked what my favourite album is, I just know that it's going to be the next one!
He's in a class now where no one could say that the Pixies reforming is about cashing in or simply a symptom from a 'has-been-mid-life-crisis'. He does the biz, and if he fancies taking his old tune and old pals on the road - best o' luck - I'll be there, but I'm just as (more...) keen to see the Catholics again.
my mind is like the ocean... |
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Old Neptuna
- FB Fan -
Ireland
200 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2003 : 03:26:21
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I remember an interview with Frank back in 2002 on an Irish show - 'No Disco', Frank was asked 'do you get fed up with people shouting for Pixies songs?'. Frank replied - 'not at all - people just want to be entertained right?'. For my part - I go to hear the Man sing the FB+C classics - Pixies stuff is a bonus.
Of course it's a pity that some FB songs don't get such a rapturous applause as Velouria, but some we all take what we want away from the gigs - the same as the albums. No doubt some of the young Pixies fans go away and buy FB albums after hearing them live - hope so. |
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Douglas
= Cult of Ray =
Sweden
308 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2003 : 03:33:24
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quote:
Originally posted by neilefc
perhaps it’s just a load of young fans who missed out on the pixies first time and want to hear a few songs live.
if so, tough shit, you should have been born earlier.
No! You're wrong. It's not "tough shit" because Frank obviously plays Pixies songs live!
Also, Frank himself chooses to play Pixies-songs because he knows that people want to hear them! I too believe that it's annoying when people cheer more for the pixies stuff then for his solo work but it's up to him if he wants to play pixies songs or not. |
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Purrsia
- FB Fan -
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2003 : 10:11:53
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Hmmmm, I guess if the applause difference bothered Frank that much he wouldn't play Pixies stuff.
I know when Bob Mould was in Sugar, he actually vowed not to play any Husker Du stuff - hell, he didn't even play anything he'd released solo up to that point in his Sugar shows. Sugar, to him, was its own entity. But that was his choice as a performer. Yeah, I was bummed because I'd missed the boat on the the Hu Du days (damn me for being born too young :-p), but it was just that music that got me into Bob as a musician in the first place - don't get me wrong, though, Sugar live was among the best live shows I'd ever seen.
Imagine my surprise when, during his first solo tour post-Sugar, he not only played a Husker Du song but one of my favorites. Yeah, I squealed like an idiot. Part shock and surprise, part 'holy shit I never thought I'd hear my favorite 'old school' song live!' thing.
Anyway, back to Frank vs. Pixies, it's technically all him anyway. I mean, he wrote damn near all the Pixies stuff. So what does it matter? People probably get more excited because they either figure they'd never get a chance to hear him play that stuff or they're just older fans who have been fans of Frank since his Pixies days - so it's all about a nostalgia rush to them.
I also have to agree with another poster here - the really fresh stuff might get lukewarm reception because people are just getting into it. A lot of times these tours come on the heels of an album being just released, and for me anyway, it can take more than a year of listening for me to really fall in love with a set of tunes on an album. I'll go to see the performer, and find myself thinking "uh, now what song is this?" when the new stuff is being played - there's no familiarity with it yet. Not always the case, of course, but a lot of times it is. However, the Pixies stuff, the early solo Frank stuff - it's been around marinating in our minds and attaching itself to our fond memories. And when we hear those tried and true tunes live, it takes us back, surpises us, and makes us smile. I'm sure most fans don't mean any disrespect by getting excited over it.
That's my two cents.
--Purrsia |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 10:56:34
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i saw Husker Du (how do you do the umlaut thing?)at the UIC show on that last tour they did
and it was smokin' except that the sound WAS WAY LOUD and IT DID HURT!
seriously too loud and it made it hard to endure. since then i am wary of going in to a show without plugs just in case.
pixies fans -they like to emulate black francis i guess. the man himself said somewhere that even he thought he was arrogant back then.
when i saw FB&C at Metro the first go'round for the catholics practically the week
that rich gilbert signed on some guy obviousely pixated yelled out: 'where's joey!'
and Frank seemed clearly annoyed at that and i did think it was rude and it is.
the subject being fans like that -yea they are boneheads -imagine how many frank
has had to endure over the years
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