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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
 Posted - 09/18/2003 : 12:39:31
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Sometimes when someones opinion differs from mine, I use a throwaway line about how their opinion defines themselves and is not a true critique of whatever it is I enjoy. Here is an example
Me: That was a great movie
You: I didnt like it so much
Me: That says a helluva lot more about you than it does that movie.
Its just a silly line that I enjoy and my friends loathe. But, it is exactly the way I think when someone gives a negative or slight opinion of FB's music. Literally, I define that person as lacking in musical taste. FB is a litmus test for me, I am that sure of his greatness and my superior taste in music. Is that how all or most of you feel out there? Is there room for disagreement re. FB in your minds? I see none. |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 12:44:07
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That's a loaded question/sentiment Dallas. I could go on for hours detailing both sides of this argument, which really comes down to how we define "good" music. Is it simply what each individual finds appealing, or can we say explicitly some things are good and some bad? Tough one.
 He's the Cult of Frank / Fear Dave, the boy ass-pirate |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 12:44:22
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I'm just like that...people lose points with me if they admit they like a band in which I find inferior. I'm not as much of a snob over FB though. I don't think he really has "mainstream universal appeal" that some indie bands have, you know what I mean? There are people who will absolutely hate his country twang...while the Pixies, on the other hand, are much more accessable. Therefore, I wouldn't really see myself as a FB snob as I would see myself a music snob. I am flawed, tho, because there are a lot of popular indie bands that I have not checked out.
 "I joined the Cult of Frank / Did anyone else have to give up their first born?" |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 12:44:23
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I'm OK if they don't like it as long as they like other good stuff. Don't like FB but like, I don't know, Justin Timberlake. I can no longer speak to you. Don't like FB but you're a big Spoon fan? OK, fine, but listen to FB some more cause you WILL like it. Trust me.
Those are the two typical scenarios/responses.
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 13:02:19
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| I used to really get annoyed at other people's taste in music. A good indicator of someone who doesnt know good music is someone who says, 'i like a bit of everything but, oh, i can't stand country' and look at you as if they are expecting a nod (affirmation of the status quo in musical taste). what a retard, i say. I always felt that it didnt matter what kind of music it was, that there were good bands and bad bands. now, i seem to not care anymore about what other people listen to, and dont even bother with my old hobby of pointing out bad bands and ripoff artists. celine dion sucks, we all know that. i guess the point is, i've learned that there is no accounting for people's taste....that fucking annoying retard, sean paul is a good example.....that shit plays in grocery stores......what the fuck? |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 13:31:59
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so they have retarded music in grocery stores up there too?!
-so do people in Canada really leave their front doors unlocked
and refrain from nonsense such as shooting each other?
anyway snobs are snobs and that's it
-it is hard but that statement about 'listen to FB enough
and you WILL like it' -just isn't true
every body is wired different and with as many people on the
planet as there is now and what goes into the forming of a mind
and all -some people just will not.
i think we all go thru a snobbery thing in this world with all the
crap we have to deal with at times(like what they play that passes for 'popular music')
but basically being an asshole to someone just because they are really into
slipknot or something like that -just makes you an asshole...
R |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 13:35:47
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Hee hee, Sean Paul is a Retard.
I think you hit the nail on the head. What is the appeal of that wet rat?
Anyway, I realize that a lot of people don't know FB so I can't deride them if they don't know or like him.
Everyone that I have turned on to him gets this realization and have passed it along to me that FB is a prime example of what "good" rock and roll is. |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 13:42:36
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| Its not about being an asshole, but, you have friends whose musical tastes you respect and others whose taste you disregard. FB is that litmus test for me. I can negotiate on just about every other band there is. |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 13:44:16
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Hey! I like Justin Timberlake! You could have chosen a better example.
Denis
"I'm in the Cult of Frank/Now how the hell do I get out?" |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 13:48:03
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quote:
Originally posted by vilainde
Hey! I like Justin Timberlake! You could have chosen a better example.
Denis
"I'm in the Cult of Frank/Now how the hell do I get out?"
Doesn't suprise us in the slightest. |
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Wowee_Zowee
- FB Fan -
Belgium
81 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 14:17:10
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I also like Justin Timberlake. We, fans, shouldn't let those indie wankers fuck with us, villainde! Power to the people!
The Swimmer, are you a king?
Even if you're Michael or Janet: it's a sad, sad planet. |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 14:25:15
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When I was younger, I looked down on people for listening to music I disliked. But that's changed somehow over the years. I rarely judge people by their tastes anymore-- unless they like white R&B.
 "Hear the Cult of Abe / And grow a beard with no mustache" |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 15:30:36
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i used to be a HUGE music snob - i almost broke up with a girl once because she couldn't see that the beatles were better than bon jovi. but, as i've mellowed into my early 20s, i see that music is really just what AN INDIVIDUAL digs. i believe wayne coyne from the flaming lips once said something like "music is what makes you happy - whether that is britney spears for a 14 year old or the beatles for a 50 year old." That doesn't mean that i don't try and convert anyone i meet into a fan of frank black, gram parsons, they might be giants, jonathan richman, radiohead, stephen malkmus, spoon, primus, mike watt, etc. it just means that i don't break up with girls over it anymore :)
-brian |
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el_chingon
- FB Fan -
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 15:38:46
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I'll just open myself up for public mockery, but what other bands does everyone listen to? Me, I like (besides senor frank) Built to Spill, Man or Astro Man, TMBG (did everyone see their documentary starring chuck!?!?), the stingrays, weezer, etc, etc....
Your ideas intrigue me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. |
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Blank Frack
- FB Fan -
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 15:42:40
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It's not just about a particular loser band that you like that no one else does, it's also something else. Part of me wants to believe that people that rely on radio to determine their tastes are, indeed, vermin. But I don't like the feeling of anybody staring down their nose at me, either. So if you're secretly into Level 42 or OMD or whatever, at least you go out there into the world and search for good music as oppossed to having it forced upon you. I think that's the important thing. Now, can I have some of your caviar on my hotdog, Guvnuh?
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Chris Knight
= Cult of Ray =
USA
899 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 16:19:09
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I think it would annoy me slightly if someone loved a band like, say, Radiohead, and didn't really care for FB's stuff. I only know 3 people who like FB/Pixies (though two of them have apparently spread the word to several other individuals), and I turned them on to his music; therefore, I'm just happy to discover a person who has even heard of FB before my meeting her/him. I don't know anyone at all who loves Throwing Muses like I do, which makes me very sad. :(
When the hell is CBS gonna do a Murphy Brown reunion? |
Edited by - Chris Knight on 09/18/2003 16:20:41 |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 20:17:24
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quote:
i almost broke up with a girl once because she couldn't see that the beatles were better than bon jovi.
See, now that's when it's time to disregard opinions...it's like, a musical FACT that the Beatles are better than Bon Jovi. I don't care who you are or what you listen to, or even if you LIKE the Beatles...this is a fact. I believe that there's a limit to opinions when it comes to music. There are facts that lie somewhere between actual fact and opinion, such as:
1. The Beatles are one of the best rock bands ever
2. Pet Sounds is one of the best albums ever recorded
3. Jimi Hendrix is a guitar god
Get the drift?
quote:
A good indicator of someone who doesnt know good music is someone who says, 'i like a bit of everything but, oh, i can't stand country'
If I had a dime for every time I heard that. I find it hard for someone to be a musical conoseuir (sp?) and like everything at the same time...it's just not possible. That breaks the definition. |
Edited by - El Barto on 09/18/2003 20:18:36 |
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NicktheLemming
- FB Fan -
8 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 20:21:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Knight
I don't know anyone at all who loves Throwing Muses like I do, which makes me very sad. :(
I adore them, does that count?
FB / Pixies / TM / Kristen Hersh / PJ Harvey / Half Man Half Biscuit - the only bands I brought every CD I have with me when I moved to America.
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mdisanto
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1140 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2003 : 22:13:24
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hahah im a pretty big music snob, i usually think less of people if they like those lame indie bands that are dime a dozen these days. also, people will suggest stuff for me to listen to and i usually wont even bother, but ill always tell people to listen to pixies or frank black or this or that. i only trust the musical opinion of my really close friends.
-miked |
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noexx
= Cult of Ray =
361 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 00:23:52
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| i usually just go to big shows or any show and watch the very first band and then leave. i like paying money to do that. |
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SelfEscape
- FB Fan -
83 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 07:19:23
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quote:
Originally posted by frank_black_francis
I used to really get annoyed at other people's taste in music. A good indicator of someone who doesnt know good music is someone who says, 'i like a bit of everything but, oh, i can't stand country'
Everyone has their own tastes, I'll admit I hate true country and pretty much all rap, most of the old rap was ok, but my god. Theres plenty of more rock country records I love, and if someone wants to they could put Show Me Your Tears into a country category, as you say, to me I like everything except for country and rap, but thats a generalization that takes into account what most rap and country are. How about this, pretty much everything is awful right now, even the underground is sad, all these bands that are just boring becoming the "next big thing" |
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Bartholomew
= Cult of Ray =
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 07:33:54
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| Interesting question. I believe there is definite good and bad art and of course, some stuff in the middle. To me, this is fact. For instance, just finished my second attempt at reading Hemingway’s For Whom The Bell Tolls and while I can tell it’s great writing, I don’t like it, can’t even finish it. Now, I absolutely LOVED Old Man and The Sea. Why? Same great writing, but that story is different because it is exactly the TYPE of story I’m into (metaphorical, more inner turmoil, that kind of stuff). Technically, both great works, but my opinion sways my personal judgement. Fact: Frank Black makes great music (it’s inspired, it’s original, it’w well executed, fresh, etc. etc). But that doesn’t mean everyone should like it. It’s kind of like...Fact: Ice Cream is good. We can pretty much all agree on that. But tnot everyone is crazy about Mint Chocolate Chip (me included). There are many flavors out there, Daniel San. Do not judge another by what kind of fooking ice cream they like. |
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Blank Frack
- FB Fan -
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 07:40:47
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I don't see a conflict between hating the shit out of Alan Jackson and Garth Brooks or whoever and liking FB. All three may use steel pedal, but the difference is as immense to differentiate between what is awful (Hee Haw shit) and what is masterful (Johnny Cash, R.I.P.)
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Chris Knight
= Cult of Ray =
USA
899 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 16:03:56
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quote:
Originally posted by NicktheLemming
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Knight
I don't know anyone at all who loves Throwing Muses like I do, which makes me very sad. :(
I adore them, does that count?
FB / Pixies / TM / Kristen Hersh / PJ Harvey / Half Man Half Biscuit - the only bands I brought every CD I have with me when I moved to America.
Hi Nick! There are actually a few Muses fans on this board, but I don't know anyone in real life who had even heard of them before me. Sad. I'm also a regular visitor of the official Muses website's messageboard; don't know if you've been there, so the URL is http://www.throwingmusic.com . I'm not familiar with Half Man Half Biscuit, so I'll look 'em up. Thanks for the reply!
When the hell is CBS gonna do a Murphy Brown reunion? |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 16:09:39
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I just bought University, Sky Motel and Hips and Makers. Do I count?
 ixies |
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NicktheLemming
- FB Fan -
8 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 17:36:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Knight
I'm also a regular visitor of the official Muses website's messageboard; don't know if you've been there, so the URL is http://www.throwingmusic.com .
I've been to the site a few times, but I haven't signed up for the board; I usually lurk around there a fair bit though (like here really).
quote:
I'm not familiar with Half Man Half Biscuit, so I'll look 'em up.
A lot of the references they make are very, very English. However, just a brief sample... http://comedy.allinfoabout.com/slipknot.htm
:-)
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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 21:18:55
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I like that song Rooster
alice n chains
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ain't it funny how the goes |
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Chris Knight
= Cult of Ray =
USA
899 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2003 : 05:02:22
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Thanks for the link, Nick.
Congrats on your purchases, Speedy M. I went to high school with a alt music fan/budding musician/computer nerd named Mike, but I kinda doubt that he moved from Oregon to Saskatchewan. :) Then again, stranger things have happened.
When the hell is CBS gonna do a Murphy Brown reunion? |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2003 : 06:52:00
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I don't care what anyone likes. I know HORRIBLE people with great taste in music. And vice versa.
My own "snob" tendencies don't involve judging other people. Where I'm a snob is that I tend to be less curious about music that's really popular than I am about lesser known music. Like I haven't heard that last Wilco album or the recent Flaming Lips stuff. And I don't know anything about Radiohead. When i was in college I listened to a lot of the then-hyped bands (and still like a lot of them... especially Frank Black!), but I don't pay much attention anymore.
Maybe if I heard that stuff I'd like it. And maybe someday I will. But now there's lots other music that grabs my attention more. |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2003 : 08:31:07
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I don't really dig ice cream but I'm mad about frappes. Anyhoo, my sister's fiance tried to argue that Elvis was a better musician than the Beatles. Finally he gave in and said that Elvis was just a better showman.
I agree with some of you about relying on the radio. I think people should take the initiative in finding good music but one can't be blamed if they don't happen upon every hip thing. I really don't have any personal influences so what I like I found pretty much on my own save for a few instances. As for me, I think most mainstream rap is atrocious and anything played on the country channel is crap. It took me a while to realize there is a lot of great country out there and I'm finally being exposed to some of it. And is it just me or do too many girlfriends rely on there boyfriends to discover new music?
The Mountain Goats (The Extra Glenns) / Will Oldham (Bonnie 'Prince' Billy/ Neutral Milk Hotel/ Aimee Mann/ Ozma/ Rilo Kiley/ etc. etc. |
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leokearse
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2003 : 09:24:41
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I like Frank Black, Sean Paul AND Justin Trousersnake (well 'Rock Yer Body' anyway - gets me freaky dancin down the discoteque). Am I some kind of FREAK?
If a girl likes the Pixies, I know she will be on the same wavelength as me and will, like me, find stories of plastic surgery gone wrong incredibly funny ("The phoney doctor liposucked my kidneys out through my ass!"). A person's taste in music is a very good measure of their personality.
That said, one of my best mates just listens to green nuns of the revolution and rotterdam fuckstep. But I reckon he secretly likes the Pixies too.
Frank Black's a more acquired taste so I wouldn't expect anyone to like him. But you know what? I have never met a dickhead who likes Frank Black.
- Leo |
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gracie
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
573 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2003 : 07:24:28
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I used to be a huge music snob and am actively trying to reverse that as its certainly not something to aspire to.
I still think my musical taste is better that most of the people i meet but you really shouldn't write people off just because they don't share the same taste in music as you do, especially if its music that is an acquired taste.
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Tempus Fugit
- FB Fan -
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2003 : 10:49:52
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My musical tastes have always been all over the map, but they generally tend to veer off into the obscure. I used to be far snobbier in my attitudes towards music, but over the years I've hung out with people who mostly listen to Dave Matthews, Linkin Park and their ilk. It irritated the hell out of me first, but in the end, I realized it doesn't really matter what a person listens to. Sure, it makes me have a more instant connection with someone if they share my musical tastes, but it's not a way to judge character.
The only time it really irritates me is if someone claims to have a deep affection towards music, yet everything they've ever heard comes from MTV or the radio. I figure, if you really claim to love music so much, why haven't you tried to go out and find more? I can understand that years ago how it was far more difficult.. in my teenage years, the only way I found out about more underground music was (ironically) by watching 120 Minutes on MTV. Ahhh.. that was a great show. I'd stay up till 2am every sunday and just ses a slew of bands I had never even heard of. Frank Black, Pixies, Afghan Whigs, Morphine, Sonic Youth.. so much good stuff. RIP 120 Minutes.
But now with the Internet, a 2 second search could reveal a whole world of new music to your average Modern Rock listening type person. So, why not explore it? I love finding new bands that excite me.. of course I suppose I'm a bit of a geek. ;)
However, working at a music store does turn me into a bit of a bastard.. especially because my work caters to the "Fitty Cent/Linkin Park" crowd. And we also tend to get quite a few scenesters in the store.. I've never liked "scenes". Ok, NOW I'm just rambling.
I have the heart of a child. I keep it in a jar on my shelf. |
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freedom rocker
- FB Fan -
USA
88 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2003 : 17:19:30
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I can't stand people who say they like a little bit of everything, like it makes them look diversified. I think a person without at least a few strong favorites, lack convictions.
Oh, I think I have fairly good tastes, but I always get teased for liking JOURNEY. So Sue Me!
the blues isn't an art-form, it's a product-- not unlike computer chips and tampons.
--dead milkmen |
Edited by - freedom rocker on 09/21/2003 17:20:41 |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2003 : 19:25:26
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I think also a lot of this depends on how closely you hold music to your heart...how much it's a part of your own personality. For me, music is a major thing in my life, I take it very seriously and I get offended when people try to say that DMB is great or something, you know? And then they try to tell ME what's good, it's like, uh, no...I don't think so. It's like a casual football watcher trying to tell the football player how to play football. It just doesn't work that way.
"I joined the Cult of Frank / Did anyone else have to give up their first born?" |
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SelfEscape
- FB Fan -
83 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2003 : 00:14:27
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| Agreed R.I.P. 120 Minutes. The new mtv2 show I havent seen but it looks like it plays crap, subterrean or something I think it's called. Amp was also a pretty cool show for a while after 120 where I discovered Atari Teenage Riot and a ton of other stuff. |
Edited by - SelfEscape on 09/22/2003 00:31:59 |
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