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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
 Posted - 09/13/2003 : 11:26:53
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1. The indie crowd: The indie crowd are a dangerous crowd. Especially now with the internet. This allows them to download albums, lots of albums a day, if the album doesn't grab them on one or two listens, it gets deleted. Clearly FB albums take a special attention to get into. You can't casually get into a new Frank Black album while you also have a stack of the latest hipster fodder to wad through.
2. Indie eliticism. Any time you can write off an artist is seen as a good thing. For an album to be seen as good to someone who listens to 5 new albums a day, it needs to have something noticeable about it...a new "sound" that can be fit into a new cross breed genre of music, "disco-punk" "soul-hardcore" "punk-techno", the actual songwriting of such music doesn't actually matter, since the point is to be able to say such album is "great" to other indie elites, thus ensuring your credibility has being familiar with a wide spectrum of cutting edge music.
3. The type of people who have heard of Frank aren't necessarily his potential fanbase: As I've said, Frank is only really known to said indie-kids. His new music is not "indie-rock". There are a tons of people out there who would love Frank, usually people without any pretenses about music. I've found usually people with a few favorite bands who don't listen to much new music anymore are great candidates for Frank fans. They'll give his music a lot of attention, which it needs to be appreciated.
4. Frank is new. If FB and the C's existed in the 1960s, they would be hailed as this lost amazing garage band and thus would become indie-stepping stones for a record collection, up there with Stooges and the Velvet Underground.
5. This ties into to previous entries, but really, Frank's music is not super accessible. You only need to hear Debaser 3 times to realize its genius. Black Letter Days won't reveal itself until the 10th listen. People just don't have the time these days.
Sorry for all the shots taken at indie kids, I have tons of indie rock in my cd collection, I just don't like the eliticism that comes with it sometimes.
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2003 : 12:09:36
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| maybe because he isn't as good these days? |
Edited by - PixieSteve on 09/13/2003 12:09:53 |
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Jayhawk
- FB Fan -
80 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2003 : 12:18:10
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Good points. I'd say that I feel squarely into #3. When the Pixies were in full swing I wasn't too taken with them, although I do remember seeing the "Dig for Fire/Allison" video and liking it. I always liked guitar- based music and thought that the Pixies were a little too "spacey", I guess. I had several chances to see them live, but couldn't be bothered at the time. Dumb kid.
Fast-forward about ten years later and my friend played "Cult of Ray" for me over and over again. Loved it. Naturally I've got all his records now and have even seen the light with the Pixies.
If only I hadn't had my head up my ass back in the day. |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2003 : 12:21:14
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I'd say the reason he's not popular is because his music is:
1. Good
2. Takes talent to play
3. Actually has a melody
4. Is not rap-rock
5. Not overly loud and annoying |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2003 : 13:08:32
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| You don't think it has anything to do with the live-to-two-track method? |
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Kirk
= Cult of Ray =
USA
633 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2003 : 13:46:21
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Just my opinion, but I like Frank Black more than the Pixies. Frank's current music has more of a melodic voice, while the Pixies had melodic guitar parts instead. Words and melody sticks with me more than guitar lines.
-Kirk |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2003 : 16:05:31
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| I agree, I think the live to 2 track has a lot to do with it, should have made a note of that. His first two solo albums get a lot of attention when his solo career is brought up. |
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miguel
- FB Fan -
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2003 : 16:06:57
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| I wouldn't say "not as good these days" because that's a relative thing. If your definition of "good" includes progressive, imaginative and exciting.. then yeah I'd have to agree. ;) |
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massif snake
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
282 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2003 : 16:34:50
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since when were the pixies popular, they were ardly storming the fucking charts were they. maybe frankie just does it for the love of music, cos he aint gotta argue with no bitch kim about hose songs go where.
have sex with the nuns at my school. |
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massif snake
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
282 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2003 : 16:36:08
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and real music fans shud respect him for recording to two track, thats fucking joker.
have sex with the nuns at my school. |
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Sheamus
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
345 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2003 : 21:49:36
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Massif Snake: The Pixies DID storm the charts. I believe that Doolittle was in the top 10 in the UK and Bossanova debuted at #1 or #3. There you go.
Itchload: I agree with your first 3 points
I don't think point 4 is relevant at all, as that can be said about countless other bands in existance today. The fact is, they didnt exist in the 1960s and context makes all the difference.
Point 5: I agree, Frank Black's albums do take a bit of getting into, they do need time. That said though, I still personally just don't think they're as good as The Pixies. I give the albums a lot of time, I like a lot of the stuff on them, but on the whole I don't think they are as solid and consistant as Pixies albums. Thats just my opinion though. They're completely different styles of music.
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2003 : 22:13:27
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Uh..would it be accurate to say Frank Black is bigger, and draws more of a crowd than the Pixies ever did?
Dunno.... Perhaps 10yrs from now, we'll be saying the same thing about FB&TC and his 'future' line-up..? |
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Sheamus
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
345 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2003 : 22:19:04
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I dont think he is bigger now than the Pixies were in their prime, Frank Black has never had any top 10 albums or supported U2. While he does have a dedicated fan base, it doesnt extend to the extent that The Pixies fanbase did.
Though I think that his music could possibly be more appreciated years from now. |
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Omer
= Cult of Ray =
275 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 13:51:18
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| WEll, I think one of the reasons Frank is not as popular as he used to be is because he's not new anymore. Even top selling concert hall acts like the Rolling Stones don't sell as many albusnow as they did in their prime. The second reason is that he does not look like a Rock star. |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 15:34:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Sheamus
I dont think he is bigger now than the Pixies were in their prime, Frank Black has never had any top 10 albums or supported U2. While he does have a dedicated fan base, it doesnt extend to the extent that The Pixies fanbase did.
Though I think that his music could possibly be more appreciated years from now.
hmm, sometimes i think it would be cool to have a 'dedicated fan base' like the cult of frank(heh heh) but it doesn't pay the bills, does it? well, hopefully he's living comfortably and the new record does well. we can wish can't we?
 "In the Cult of Frank/it pays off to be an 'Irish Chick'" |
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Kirk
= Cult of Ray =
USA
633 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 15:37:55
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With the Pixies, I can stamp a time line. Filing it under the sounds of the early 90s.
To me, Frank Black's more recent stuff is timeless. SMYT, which era does it fit in? It's just good song writing, not disguised by the instruments.
-Kirk |
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noexx
= Cult of Ray =
361 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 17:42:03
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i would imagine having a fairly large dedicated fan base would pay the bills....
as for proof....i have none to show right now.
"I don't get the fascination / But I am glad to be part of it"
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 17:42:56
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| How many musicians (frontmen, especially) leave popular bands and still maintain their previous popularity? Hardly any! |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 18:15:57
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| I was just wondering really. Because whenever I play Frank solo to someone, they always like it. And I'm not talking about people with 700 cds in their record collection, just regular people who like rock music. |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 18:53:51
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the 1 real reason frank black & the catholics isn't popular:
1) everybody's a fag. |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 21:19:19
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I don't think the live to 2 track method should have alot to do with it.... personally I cannot tell the difference in sound quality between the old and latest stuff.
Who's the man that won't cop out when there's danger all about? |
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Sheamus
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
345 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2003 : 01:11:13
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Kirk:
I would consider the Pixies' music to be timeless |
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Wowee_Zowee
- FB Fan -
Belgium
81 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2003 : 05:07:12
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I just think the Pixies were really hip and cool and refreshing and new and all, while Frank Black solo is just straight-on rock&roll. He doesn't have to (re)invent anything anymore, so he just plays great songs. And yes, I do realise that I am just rephrasing what Kirk said. 
About the two-track method: it must be a great way to work if you have good gear (amps, instruments, mics, ...). Makes the music more "real", "spontaneous" and "other things". It's ok really because you don't hear the difference anyway... if I were to record stuff with my band on twotrack it would sound even more miserable than it does now.
And hi! I am new.
Even if you're Michael or Janet: it's a sad, sad planet. |
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Foucaults Dog
- FB Fan -
Ireland
124 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2003 : 15:55:11
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| Well Hello Wowee! Does the Name denote a Frank Zappa Fan in our midst? |
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Foucaults Dog
- FB Fan -
Ireland
124 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2003 : 16:04:36
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I don't reckon FB is any less 'popular' than the Pixies were. Rather the media machine isn't pushing him in the same manner as it did the pixies. Great albums are all well and good, but it doesn't make much influence on sales.. The numbers are all about packaging and exposure.
Re change of style etc. there's enough room for all in the popularity stakes. Remember, some of the the indie kids of the late 80s - early 90s are still the (perhaps older) indie kids and FB fans of the noughties (I speak for myself) |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2003 : 19:27:57
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I think the name denotes a Pavement fan in our midst.
He's the Cult of Frank/Fear the boy ass-pirate |
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noexx
= Cult of Ray =
361 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2003 : 20:01:25
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| the pixies music is way different than frank black music. |
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kip1981
- FB Fan -
9 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2003 : 21:20:52
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Five reasons why FB is not as popular as the Pixies:
1. Kim Deal
2. FB+C did not dramatically and suddenly break up
3. Laziness. I think lackluster albums such as Cult of Ray and DW/BLD demonstrate a willingness to produce more albums with less effort (while DITS reveals Frank's true ability).
4. New "rough" recording style
5. Emphasis placed upon more western, unoriginal themes instead of jarring Spanish, Biblical, or UFO themes. Many indie music snobs equate country music with death itself.
Personally, FB made most of his best music without the Pixies. Songs such as Thalassocrasy, I'll Be Blue, and Manitoba. However, none of them quite has the "bite" of a masterpiece such as Gouge Away. I do not mind that the band is not so popular, that almost adds "discovered" quality for me, but I would love to see FB+C have at least one hit single, if only to make Frank happy. Unfortunately radio stations are willing to play junk instead of the singles that Frank regularly supplies them (Headache, All My Ghosts, Dog Gone, St. Francis, Robert Onion, Nadine). |
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Sheamus
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
345 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2003 : 04:05:55
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[quote]Originally posted by kip1981
Five reasons why FB is not as popular as the Pixies:
1. Kim Deal
How has she stopped Frank from being popular? Evidence please.
2. FB+C did not dramatically and suddenly break up
You really think this had a big effect on the Pixies popularity? Why? I'd say it accounts for very little.
3. Laziness. I think lackluster albums such as Cult of Ray and DW/BLD demonstrate a willingness to produce more albums with less effort (while DITS reveals Frank's true ability).
I agree with this one
4. New "rough" recording style
I don't think this is a hinderance to popularity. Exhibit A: The White Stripes.
5. Emphasis placed upon more western, unoriginal themes instead of jarring Spanish, Biblical, or UFO themes. Many indie music snobs equate country music with death itself.
Kind of agree. |
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Foucaults Dog
- FB Fan -
Ireland
124 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2003 : 05:04:44
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| Don't you think there's an element of mutual exclusivity in your points 3 and 5? (UFOs and COR being the most obvious) |
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kip1981
- FB Fan -
9 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2003 : 09:59:08
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quote:
How has she stopped Frank from being popular? Evidence please.
By not playing bass.
quote:
You really think this had a big effect on the Pixies popularity? Why? I'd say it accounts for very little.
I am inclined to agree with you. My answer was intended to be more novel and insightful than accurate, I suppose. However, I do think that artists can obtain a fame and mystic after an abrupt end that would have been otherwise denied. Consider Nirvana.
quote:
I don't think this is a hinderance to popularity. Exhibit A: The White Stripes.
I do not hear the White Stripes all over the radio.
(But I do not listen to the radio much.)
quote:
5. Emphasis placed upon more western, unoriginal themes instead of jarring Spanish, Biblical, or UFO themes. Many indie music snobs equate country music with death itself.
Kind of agree.
I also agree with the last poster who noted the conflict. There is a tension. |
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noexx
= Cult of Ray =
361 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2003 : 15:41:42
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i find that most people that haven't heard of 'frank black' assume he is someone like clint black the country guy. almost eveyrone i have ever mentioned him too that hasn't heard him has assumed that. that could be a good reason why he isn't as popular. assumptions.
another reason i think is that the name he uses for releases is 'frank black' and i tend not to listen to too many bands where they are named after a single person rather than just a random name such as the pixies. maybe others do the same thing?
i also think when he included the name frank black AND THE CATHOLICS it hurt them too for many reasons...some being that they are called the catholics. i am not big into religious stuff and especially not a silly religion like catholicism.
another is most bands that are named "so and so and the so and so's" just aren't that great. how many bands besides the catholics do you listen to that are named after and guy and his band? neil young perhaps or tom petty?
anyways...what do i know? |
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Sheamus
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
345 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2003 : 21:35:02
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Yeah, on point 2 I do agree a little with what you said and the example of Nirvana etc. But I don't think it counts for all that Much.
As for the White Stripes, I wasn't talking about radio play, but a band in general that is popular using a "rough recording style". |
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frankygoestolosangeles
- FB Fan -
France
18 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2003 : 04:13:38
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I'm maybe the only one here to say that
but I heard Frank Black before hearing the Pixies
so I was not influenced by that band
and any Frank Black record has always been more interesting than any Pixies record to me
I hated every Frank Black record the day or the week I bought them
but after a few months, I appreciate them and then I can't stand a week without listening to one of them (I now love Black Letter Days but hate Show me Your tears)
it's quite the opposite with the Pixies
I liked it when I just listened to them but now, I don't give a fuck about them
and find them lame
Frank Black make deep moving records, Black Frances just good indie rock
you got the flavor |
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Wowee_Zowee
- FB Fan -
Belgium
81 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2003 : 05:22:28
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(I'm more of a Pavement fan than a Zappa fan, only because I haven't checked out Zappa... yet.)
Even if you're Michael or Janet: it's a sad, sad planet. |
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Foucaults Dog
- FB Fan -
Ireland
124 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2003 : 05:50:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wowee_Zowee
(I'm more of a Pavement fan than a Zappa fan, only because I haven't checked out Zappa... yet.)
Even if you're Michael or Janet: it's a sad, sad planet.
Check out Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention's 1965 Album FREAK OUT (track 7: wowie zowie) |
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