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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
 Posted - 08/21/2003 : 15:24:58
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http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=435898
Kelly: 'I'll probably be found dead in the woods'
By PA News Reporters
21 August 2003
David Kelly, the government weapons expert, predicted that he would be "found dead in the woods" if Iraq was invaded, months before his apparent suicide, the Hutton Inquiry heard today.
The weapons inspector slashed his wrist in Oxfordshire woodlands after being revealed as the source for BBC claims that the Government's dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction had been "sexed up" in the run-up to war.
Foreign Office official David Broucher said Dr Kelly had made what he thought to be the "throwaway" remark in February, when they met in Geneva.
Dr Kelly had expected to remain anonymous after meeting BBC journalist Andrew Gilligan, the inquiry had heard earlier.
He had publicly maintained that the Ministry of Defence had been "quite good" when he revealed he had briefed Mr Gilligan. But privately the weapons expert told a trusted contact: "I have been through the wringer."
Dr Kelly told Sunday Times journalist Nick Rufford, shortly after hearing from the MoD that he would be named in the next day's papers: "I am a bit shocked, I was told it would all be confidential."
Mr Broucher told the inquiry Dr Kelly had told him that continued inspections "properly carried out would give a degree of certainty about compliance" with UN disarmament demands.
"He said he had tried to reassure them that if they cooperated with the weapons inspections, they had nothing to fear," Mr Broucher said.
"My impression was that he felt he was in some personal difficulty or embarrassment about this because he felt the invasion might go ahead anyway and somehow it was putting him in a morally ambiguous situation."
Mr Broucher, the Foreign Office's ambassador-ranking permanent representative at the Conference on Disarmament in Geneva, said: "As David Kelly was leaving, I said to him 'what do you think will happen if Iraq is invaded?'.
"His reply was, which at the time I took to be a throwaway remark, he said 'I will probably be found dead in the woods'."
Mr Broucher said he had discussed the dossier with Dr Kelly and told the inquiry that it was part of his job to "sell" the dossier to senior officials at the UN, many of whom found it "unconvincing".
Dr Kelly had defended the dossier, saying there had been a lot of pressure to make it "as robust as possible".
Mr Broucher said he asked Dr Kelly what would happen if the coalition went to war with Iraq.
He told the inquiry: "His reply was, which I took at the time to be a throwaway remark, he said 'I will probably be found dead in the woods'."
Mr Broucher added: "I didn't report it at the time to anyone because I didn't attribute any particular significance to it.
"I thought he might have meant that he was at risk of being attacked by the Iraqis in some way."
He heard of the weapons expert's death while he was on leave in Geneva but said he had not immediately realised the circumstances.
The inquiry saw an e-mail sent by Mr Broucher to Patrick Lamb, deputy head of counter-proliferation at the Foreign Office.
"In a conversation in Geneva which took place in late February, he explained to me that he thought that the weapons inspectors could have a good idea what the Iraqis had built and destroyed," it read.
The e-mail said Dr Kelly feared that in the event of an invasion it would have appeared that he had "betrayed his contacts, some of whom might be killed as a direct result of his actions."
The e-mail repeated Dr Kelly's statement that following on from this "he would probably be found dead in the woods". |
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This Is It
- FB Fan -
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2003 : 15:52:13
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I work in the death claims department of a life insurance company and I've never seen "slit wrists" on any death certificates or medical reports.
He who can does - he who cannot, teaches. (George Bernard Shaw)
The only difference between doctors and lawyers is that lawyers merely rob you, whereas doctors rob you and kill you, too. (Anton Chekhov)
By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher. (Socrates) |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2003 : 15:58:03
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| i'm not trying to be rude, but what exactly is your point? are you saying that death by slit wrists is very rare? |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2003 : 18:52:05
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This whole David Kelly thing is very strange.... some people I know think the government might be behind it, but who knows. It wouldn't surprise me to be honest as I have no faith in the government of GB at the moment.
Bacon....... Its not fantastic |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2003 : 22:00:49
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It is a very suspicious scenario. Kelly vanished, he was acting himself before, including making plans with people, and then off without a trace...not your typical suicide.
How many intellectuals with a background like Kelly commit suicide in a shrub down the street from their house??
I dunno if it was the UK gov't, but it seems rather unlikely it was suicide. |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 01:20:49
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Hmm, it is very suspect. His family are reported to have said that he gave no indication that he was on the road to suicide, despite having alot of pressure of being questionned about the dossier. You'd have to think though, if it was foul play then surely they would have found signs of a struggle during the post mortem. Mind you, you only have to go back to JFK to find evidence of bodged autopsies. Who knows what happened, but to be perfectly honest, the way the British government has been behaving lately, if he was taken out to protect themselves then it really wouldn't surprise me at all.
Bacon....... Its not fantastic |
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This Is It
- FB Fan -
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 09:24:13
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
i'm not trying to be rude, but what exactly is your point? are you saying that death by slit wrists is very rare?
I'm saying it flat out doesn't happen. Bleed death by the wrists? Bullshit. By the neck maybe, but not the wrists. See, it's a fine line. You cut them too shallow and the blood will coagulate before you get anywhere near death. If you cut them too deeply, your muscles will contract and you will still not bleed to death.
He who can does - he who cannot, teaches. (George Bernard Shaw)
The only difference between doctors and lawyers is that lawyers merely rob you, whereas doctors rob you and kill you, too. (Anton Chekhov)
By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher. (Socrates) |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 16:31:28
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Interesting..so it's more a physical impossibility?
huh.. |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 18:06:52
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I thought that if you slash your wrists with a left to right / right to left motion then it won't lead to death. But if you cut in a downward motion up your arm (does that make sense?) then you are pretty much a gonner. Thats what I heard anyway.
Bacon....... Its not fantastic |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2003 : 23:35:14
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I dunno if that makes sense...you'll cut one vein/artery much 'more', and cause that particular bloody trasit-way to lose more, but the others stay intact..
If you wanna bleed to death, i think you're gonna have to lop the whole hand off, or go for the throat..
Now, i'm wondering if this is really fact, what sort of bumbling agency would kill him this way...seems very sloppy. |
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DruggedBunny
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
395 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2003 : 15:02:03
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Please remove your tinfoil hats.
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2003 : 21:01:14
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*sigh*
I can only affort the tar-paper hat. =( |
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This Is It
- FB Fan -
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2003 : 13:58:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Noisy
Interesting..so it's more a physical impossibility?
huh..
not impossible, but definitely improbable. Who slashes their wrists out in the woods? Doesnt even make sense. The only people who commit suicide that way are amateurs. And you'd have to be rather sensible to commit suicide by slashed wrists because it's rather involved. It creates a double-bind. Too dumb and you wouldnt do it correctly, but if yr wise enough then you'd surely pick a more sensible way to take yr life. Suppose yr gonna slash yr wrists. you slash yr right wrist very deeply to make sure you cut many arteries. Then you go to cut yr left wrist only to find out that you can't move yr right hand because you've severed the tendons. You'd probably pass out momentarily and wake up a little later in small pool of clotted blood. End of cry for help.
Anything works better: blow yr brains out, cyanide, inject iodine into bloodstream, overdose on drugs, jump from somewhere high; but no, he decided he'd run into the woods and cut his wrists. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2003 : 14:05:34
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| Yeah, when you put it that way, it does seem a little out there... |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2003 : 16:48:19
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.... and his was a very intelligent bloke as well.
Bacon....... Its not fantastic |
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DruggedBunny
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
395 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2003 : 04:45:49
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The full details haven't been released as far as I'm aware, but I'd imagine a guy like that would have access to all sorts of Neat Shit. Maybe an anti-coagulent to stop blood clots forming? A simple cut would be all that was required then.
Whatever, I don't believe the conspiracy theory for a second; this stuff's just made up to make things appear more sinister and exciting than they really are.
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DruggedBunny
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
395 Posts |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2003 : 10:27:27
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quote:
Originally posted by This Is It
The only people who commit suicide that way are amateurs.
well there's not much of a career in Pro Suicide.
seriously though what a stupid fucking statement, hit yourself in the face, please. also, why don't you go prove to everyone how impossible it is to bleed to death by slitting your wrist. be sure to get the artery. |
Edited by - Ebb Vicious on 09/01/2003 10:28:00 |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2003 : 10:40:09
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| Come off it Ebb - was that really necessary? |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2003 : 10:52:01
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yeah, i think it was. it really bugs me when people do this kind of crap.
the guy works in data entry or some other menial job, yet he thinks he's qualified to announce to the world that 'slitting your wrists won't kill you.'
hey dude i work near tall buildings and i've never seen someone die from falling off of it, so i think that it's impossible to die from falling off a tall building.
it's pretty obvious that slitting the artery in your wrist or just about any other artery will, without medical intervention, get you dead.
anyway, whatever. this board doesn't have a :rolleyes: smiley or i'd have used it. |
Edited by - Ebb Vicious on 09/01/2003 10:52:52 |
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ivandivel
= Cult of Ray =
394 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2003 : 14:43:59
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| For once, i think i acually agree with ebb vicious -kind of. Anyway, anyone who actually succeeds in killing himself would be an amateur. "Pros" don't succeed. Second, suicides are not rational acts, so they should not be judged as wether they were rational or not. There may be a 100 reasons for someone to end their lives, and if there were other reasons than pressure - you will not be the ones to know. Finally, people do kill them selves by slashing their wrists. It is not "the norm", but it does happen. |
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