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bazza
* Dog in the Sand *
Ireland
1439 Posts |
 Posted - 08/08/2003 : 04:51:50
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probably T2. excellent stuff - i saw it in the cinema when i was 15 and i guess there was a novelty factor involved too.
Is your work done? Are all pigs fed, watered and ready to fly?....
- David Brent |
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BrendanT
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
907 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2003 : 06:21:22
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$3500.00 (US) and 65 signatures.
That is all that is needed to run for election.
Strummer-man
I had me a vision!
What is your fascination with my secret closet of mystery? |
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2003 : 06:21:52
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I remember being completely blown away by that liquid metal morphing effect in T2... |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2003 : 06:50:38
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| I know the people who did that! Old friends of my mom's who owned the special effects company responsible for that - same people who did The Abyss if anyone saw that... |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2003 : 07:29:44
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| Was that not Lucas' ILM? 'cause if your mom knows George Lucas, I am so flying down there to get an introduction... :) |
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2003 : 08:29:18
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That was the same effect in 'The Abyss' wasn't it! but with 'water' rather than 'liquid metal'. Cheers ramona! |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2003 : 09:17:14
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| No, was not Lucas - I can't remember the name of their company now, it is since defunct, I believe. I will look for a link. |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2003 : 09:20:15
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| T2 is definitely my favorite. T3 was great with lots of action, which is about the only thing I expect from Arnold, but it lacks the great special effects that made T2 great. And of course, it also lacks James Cameron who made the first two classics. But Arnold definitely has not lost his touch, and he's just as good as always. |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2003 : 09:22:10
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Okay, I looked - some of the effects WERE George Lucas (whoops) but my mom's old pals were responsible for the liquid metal guy. Their credit is Special Visual Effect Sequences
4-WARD PRODUCTIONS, INC.
ROBERT SKOTAK
ELAINE EDFORD
They even won an Oscar for some movie - I think it was The Abyss. My brain is so fried...
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gracie
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
573 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2003 : 09:40:00
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| t3 is disgrace. i really loved the first two but t3 was a huge dissapointment. its a certificate 12 for a start so there no blood or gore and there was far too much humour. i might reconsider voting for him now i've seen it, not that i could vote anyway. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2003 : 10:07:02
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| Yeah, The Abyss was pretty ahead of it's time as far as effects go, I'm pretty sure they did win an Oscar on it. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2003 : 11:58:47
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| I would not vote for Arnold. Don't let CA become represented by Hollywood!! |
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Steak n Sabre
* Dog in the Sand *
Uzbekistan
1013 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2003 : 13:00:12
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If Gary Coleman won, I have the vision of him jumping up on the podium declaring "I'm the Governor", much like the scene in High Plains Drifter when Clint makes the little guy the Mayor AND the Sheriff.
And didn't Arnold smoke a joint in the movie "Pumping Iron"?? Wait til his opponents get a hold of that! Which is a shame since, in most cases, I'll vote for a "Green" |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2003 : 13:04:30
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| maybe he didn't inhale. |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2003 : 13:23:36
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Terminator 2 has that nostalgic thing going for it; I thought it was fuckin' awesome when I saw it when I was 12. I've watched it recently, and it still holds up, unlike many movies. And, that's not even mentioning that the special effects for it's time were spectacular, while the effects for T3, in our present time of the Matrix and Final Fantasy, are now merely so-so. The fact that it had a different director, and Edward Furlong was not John Connor, and there was no Sarah Connor, made the tone of the movie too different from the first two. Of course, the second movie's tone was way different from the first. I guess that's what happens when you string out a trilogy over like, twenty years, unless you've got a "master plan" like George Lucas and his Star Wars series. (Although, real time being what it is, "Phantom Menace" and "Attack of the Clones" are never going to look like the late seventies and early eighties Star Wars movies.)
glacial |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2003 : 13:01:37
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This is from Fametracker (www.fametracker.com) and it pretty much sumed it up for me,
"Hello, I'm Ahnold Schwarzenegger. Aren't you shocked that, by all indications, I intend to run my campaign in the exact manner that you joked to your friends I might? That is, peppering my otherwise vapid soundbites with snappy catchphrases from my movies, as though running for Governor was no different than doing a junket interview for The Sixth Day on Access Hollywood? And because the national media is opportunistically jumping on my candidacy as a convenient freak show/excuse to run my celebrity mug and call it 'political news' -- thereby insuring that my face appears on the cover of all over the newsweeklies, thus granting my idea-free candidacy more legitimacy, thus ensuring more 'news' coverage, and so on -- I might actually win this crazy recall election? Is this a great country or what? But I've said too much already. Back to the campaigning: Gray Davis -- it's hasta la vista for you, baby! Sacramento? I'm going to pump you up! Reporters with probing questions about my womanizing or stances on issues? Talk to the hand!" |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2003 : 13:44:55
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| It's not a tumor.. |
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PsychicTwin
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1772 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2003 : 00:20:48
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It's NOT a TUMAH! AT ALL!
Our children are all released, since the river flushed them clean ---> http://psychictwin.tripod.com |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2003 : 11:03:17
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| heheheheh |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2003 : 12:50:57
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Just dropping in the thread to say George Lucas sucks.
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2003 : 12:52:28
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Count down 'til Dean explodes....
3, 2, 1..... |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2003 : 13:11:40
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You would say that, you ignorant 20-going on-3 pathetic excuse for a human being. Of course he sucks. And you would know. Your imaginative prowess is clearly demonstrated in your ever-so-witty and always clever criticisms, and definitely proves that George Lucas, who merely invented one of the most revered fictional universes ever and was the driving force behind several of the greatest movies of all time as well as a major revolution in Hollywood, whether for better or worse, as well as the sudden advance of graphical effects beginning in the late 70's with the box office flop Star Wars which had a HUGE budget which only by coincidence was 10x less than any movie being created at that time and about 100x better, certainly than it's science fiction counterparts released at the time. But hey, you're a moderator at FB.Net. And you were with the Bennies some time ago. So you're definitely in a position to qualitiatively and without any form of justification whatsoever declare that someone like George Lucas sucks. Maybe you should do everyone a favour and discontinue your internet service permanently.
Alright, that was fun; didn't want to disappoint anyone expecting an explosion. :) Of course I'm not completely serious. You can still pop by once a month, Jim. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2003 : 13:12:33
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| Heh.. that's even more fun to read. Cue up the overreactions thread! |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2003 : 13:13:36
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| And I was just about to go to the overreactions thread. |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2003 : 18:56:12
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Maybe sucks wasn't what I was going for...I think I was looking for "sucks ass." Had a hand in creating, yes, but from what I understand, the only movie he actually somewhat wrote was the first one, and had a little to do with Empire and Jedi, then had more to do with the 2 prequals (which, the first one sucked my dick dry, and the second, while still good, was just a lot of "HEY! LOOK! THE FIRST MOVIE SHOT PURELY DIGITAL! LOOK AT ALL THE LIGHT SABRES? DID YOU SEE THAT? HEY, I SAID LOOK AT THE LIGHTSABRES! I CAN MAKE AN ENTIRE MOVIE IN FRONT OF A GREENSCREEN!"). From what I understand, he didn't write Empire, which, by far, is the best of the bunch. The original three have credibility because they were the REAL DEAL. Chewbacca was a real guy in a suit, not some fucking CGI bullshit. It was real and gritty, not a bunch of digital hocus pocus bullshit. So, in conclusion, I think Lucas is given a lot more credibility than he deserves.
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2003 : 22:46:35
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He actually wrote all six movies (plus three others) 20 some years ago, although much less detailed than they are now. He then decided to break the concept into three parts and decided that the middle part seemed to stand on its own the best, but as he fleshed that out, again realized that it was too much for one movie, and so they were again broken into three and fully realized. He has written each and every one, although you are correct that the only screen play he wrote completely was for the first movie. Which, of course, had all the important set up details in there.
Whether Lucas has moved from live action to digital or not, the fact is that the first three movies are genius, the real deal as you say, and even if everything else he ever did or does is garbage (which is not the case, though that's only my opinion), there's no denying what he's done. Even if you don't like the country-tinged turn that FB has taken, you still can't deny the Frank knows how to rock it. There's many, many good songs to prove it, even if they're in predominantly in the past.
People are too hard on CG. The point is that if it enhances the movie experience, who really cares except for techno-phobes how that effect was achieved. However, I do agree that Lucas tends to push the envelope with the digital inclusion, but if it allows things to be done cheaper, faster, or better (pick two) then why shouldn't it be done. To satisfy people who think that there's no legitimacy in digital art? And even if you don't respect the fact that he uses CG for some of the effects (many are still done the way that he helped pioneer back in '77 using things like stop-motion), you've got to respect the fact that he's trying to move the industry forward and improve the overall quality of movies and the inherent verisimilitude of cinema. Yes, digital photography is new. Yes, it's never been done before. Maybe no one should be first. And we could all stay in the stone age forever. |
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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2003 : 05:10:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
the real deal as you say, and even if everything else he ever did or does is garbage (which is not the case, though that's only my opinion), there's no denying what he's done.
People forget American Graffiti, still the standout movie made by a person who understood the importance of music in people's lives. No special effects, just a brilliant use of music not just as incidental music, but to evoke so many associations. Any artist is going to have his ups and downs, but long before he began using special effects, the man made one of the most influencial films in terms of use of music, and still knows how to tell a story in ways people before him didn't. People who break ground are entitled to a few dogs. Not all experiments work, and the first time isn't always perfect. It's just that things like Graffiti and the original Star Wars kind of spoil us, the viewing public.
"Sacred cows make the best burgers!"
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2003 : 07:23:11
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| Yeah, most people I know haven't even heard of it, but it was a great film and aside from THX-1138, which was a college film (I haven't seen it), his first foray into cinema. I think Veronica hits it pretty dead on with Graffiti and the rest, and music is also one of the things I really love about the Star Wars movies; as far as influences in my life go, John Williams and Frank Black are neck-in-neck. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2003 : 11:27:00
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The problem with Lucas is that he might have created something wonderful with Star Wars...but the fact remains he also totally DESTROYED IT.
It's like Lucas raised a beautiful child, he went through skool, was going to go on to save the world, and then at 20yrs of age, Lucas kidnaps him, locks him in his basement, and fucks him up the ass every day for the rest of his pathetic life.
Good job pops. |
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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2003 : 11:47:57
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Ach, I look at it the way I look at Star Trek. There's some great ST movies, and a few dogs. There's some great Trek episodes (in each incarnation of the series) and there's some real stinkers.
A prequel series, by its nature, is doomed from the get go. Very few people can tell a story out of chrono order well (Quentin Tarantino, IMHO, is the master of that craft), and what makes a great prequel is those surprising turns of plot and setting that totally change your perspective on the latter events. It doesn't seem as though Lucas really did that -- it's more of a whatever happened to. The kind of thing that belongs in a fan's encyclopedia. But I won't say he RUINED his "middle three" chapters. However, he does have his work cut out for him to make the last, post Luke/Han/Leia chapters really the best. Maybe we're just sick of the story. I don't know.
Back to Ahnold, I haven't seen T3, but I gotta wonder if they're just running this one into the ground. It was a great story, I figure just let it stand at that. But I haven't seen T3 yet, so I can't really comment intelligently.
And it looks, early returns, like Ahnold just might win this one, which means no TV runs of "Predator" for a while. Darn.
"Sacred cows make the best burgers!"
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2003 : 12:57:35
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I find that most people who strongly dislike the new prequels don't seem to know the whole story and thus are missing large pieces of the plot which will assumedly resolve itself in the third episode. Now I do credit you that these movies should stand alone and it's probably bad writing that they are dependant on the story set up by the middle three to really get full enjoyment, but I still think you can enjoy these movies without knowing everything. I assume that means that for a lot of people there will be a seriously large twist in the upcoming third act and then maybe they'll see some of the more subtle things in 1 & 2. Things like musical hints, twisted smirks that appear just as the scene wipe reaches their mouths, and so on.
Are the new ones as visionary as the original? No, I don't think so. A lot of the mythological and sociological references that made the first ones great aren't there anymore. Some new themes are present (symbiosis, for example) but I don't think they strike the same chord. And yes, most people agree that Jar Jar is too annoying and a marketing gimmick. But not enough to destory any good that might be contained in the movies, at least not for me.
Maybe the problem is that people are comparing their childhood memories of Star Wars to their adult viewings of the prequels. All my younger cousins, nephews, neices, siblings really enjoy all the movies equally... many enjoy Phantom Menace more than any of the others. And I suppose that's what you have to keep in perspective. That said, I can still find plenty of adult things to enjoy about the movies (and no, I'm not talking about Padme's shirt being torn) even if it might be less obvious than the originals.
Yeah, it's popular and probably makes you feel cool to jump on the bandwagon and rally against a movie or a set of movies that is newer and popular, because that's what the critics do. It's not 20 years old, so it's crap. But once again, citing reasons like "digital bullshit" and "CGI bullshit" and "sucks ass" and stating some bizarre and twisted analogy as "fact" isn't exactly the most cognizant argument I've heard today. You don't like it? Fair enough; join the club. That's your opinion, as the above is mine, and you're totally entitled to it and to explain/defend it. But at least try to do so intelligently and make valid points that do something more than reveal deep-seated technological insecurities. I do find it ironic that someone so obsessed with 'the real deal' i.e. live human actors and not merely representation thereof can enjoy a cartoon like The Simpsons enough to use a reference as his namesake. But again, being anti-digital is trendy these days; there's no anti-cartoon bandwagon that I know of.
</rant>
Again, I'm with Veronica in that I would like to see some sort of twist that would force me to reevaluate the original movies, but I don't feel that has really happened. So it would be hard to say that he has destroyed the originals in my opinion. And even though they would be lambasted from all sides, I'd still love to see the final three episodes as there would be no predetermined outcome that was slowly being reached as in the first three. |
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Steak n Sabre
* Dog in the Sand *
Uzbekistan
1013 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2003 : 12:59:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
.... as far as influences in my life go, John Williams and Frank Black are neck-in-neck.
I missed the Williams exit and ended up on the Lalo Schifrin bypass. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2003 : 13:31:40
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| Yeah, from what I recall, he actually worked with Lucas initially until Spielberg introduced him to John Williams. I really haven't actively listened to enough of his stuff, but I shall... |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2003 : 14:01:10
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Of course your YOUNGER cousins, siblings, neices, etc. loved the first one cause it's a fucking kids movie. They turned this somewhat adult genre into a fun little kid's movie. I've seen the first one OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER (when I worked at CompUSA, we had the tapes of Episode I and "Big Daddy" in the breakroom...I've seen both about a thousand times) and the first one is absolute SHIT. The acting all around is horrible, Jar Jar can go fuck himself, etc. It's a bunch of bullshit Hollywood wow-factor. That's all CGI is. Maybe I hate CGI so much because it's part of action flicks mostly, and action flicks just tend to be Hollywood bullshit. Eye candy. A reason to write 15 minutes less of dialog and just have a bunch of CGI puppets wielding light sabres...big fucking deal. When a movie like this is hyped up, what do you hear about? Do you hear about the twisted love story, the tragic death of our hero? No, you hear about the "awesome battles" and "amazing special effects." *FUCK* that.
Why am I so against this technology? Because it's being abused abuse. It's abusing a good thing. It's laziness. It's evident in EVERY ASPECT OF MODERN LIFE that quality is going down the shitter. Just look at every "major sector" of pop culture...TV, radio, music, movies, even video games of late...it's all shit. Reality TV == cheap to produce, brings in just as much revenue as something that costs 3 times as much to produce. The prequals are SHIT because they focus on the wow factor and all this other Hollywood bullshit than they do to put across well written dialog, an interesting story, etc. The Hulk? More CGI dog shit, and it's a fucking flop. All these blockbuster movies are losing revenue because people are catching on. We know when we're being fed dogshit, when we're being fucked in the ass by these Hollywood cocksmokers who think they can market anything that comes out of anyone's ass. Jaded? You fucking bet.
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2003 : 14:23:19
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But the movies have always been raising the bar for special effects, from the first ones on. I think it would've been lazy to try and make a model with a closed window and be done with it than to worry about all the little things like ships flying outside the window and people walking in streets and everyday life in the background. You can't just slap an all-inclusive crap sticker on anything that uses a tool with chips instead of brushes. I agree that there are lots of counts of laziness on many people's parts, but I don't think I'd group Lucas in there with Hulk or others. It's probably true that he overdoes it, but I don't really think it detracts from the movie completely. Like all artists, he has his own blend of which tools he likes to use and how much, and I guess that either we like it or we don't. I don't watch movies for effects, and as you say, I think people are catching on that effects movies are not entertaining without story, etc to back them up. And like any other tool, it can either enhance the art of destroy it... it is the job of the artist to ensure it's the former.
Now pertaining to the prequels specifically, the movies have always been kids movies, they have always had incredible special effects, the dialogue has never been the strong point of the movies, and as for as what is hyped, you have to blame the media for the hype and not the artists themselves. It's not The Strokes' fault they were billed as the saviours of rock & roll and thus dissapointed everybody. And there was a lot of hype on the whole love story aspect of Ep. 2, though I think that part of it fell a little flat. But fair enough, if the effects bother you that much that they destroy the movie and the whole series, then that is too bad. For me, I don't really find them invasive at all in these movies. Now if you want to talk about The Matrix Reloaded, I could probably argue with you that their FX went overboard and they abused the action at the expense of plot, story, and dialogue in several scenes.
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