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dougit
- FB Fan -
87 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2003 : 14:23:11
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Think Frank Black has been Black-Listed?
(here comes other members to slug me in the face, but...)
I DO.
It actually happened right after TOTY was released.
The reason, among others is because Frank said, "I don't believe in the craft."
Also, TPTB, after extensive analysis of F. Blacks Lyrics, determined that those words should not reach the fragile minds of the masses.
But, Frank, on retrospect is probably very happy to have recieved the Black-Listing. Popularity in the music world these days means you sit on the charts right next to Shakira, Brittany, Justin, 50cent, etc.
But, Frank really should have the fan-base of a band like Radiohead, or Beck...great music & a large fan base, even though those other musicians have failed to recieve an album-of-the-year award, though they deserved it...like Frank does too.
To sum up, TPTB (the powers that be), understand the power of music, which is why they control it with huge shakles. |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2003 : 14:27:19
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| Wasn't the FBI or CIA or some other such organization investigating John Lennon towards the end of his life? Music certainly has power, and music without a message (or at least, a message of conformity/consumerism [or in the case of Eminem, an almost reverse psychology of that]) is much better for the "cause" of the so-called PTB. I never thought of that way dougit, but perhaps there is a conspiracy to ensure crap stays popular that goes far beyond simple economics and marketability.... |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2003 : 14:56:34
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i looked at the irish album charts in hotpress a couple of days ago and radiohead and some other 'indie' stuff was quite high up. i was quite surprised. but radiohead are as big as U2 at this stage.
bored of the little comments. i guess i'll just have an actual signature. much shorter.
-Jessie |
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mkingicus
- FB Fan -
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2003 : 18:34:47
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Maybe it is a governmental conspiracy in which they keep the majority of the people (the "dumb asses") from hearing music that actually goes past "my girlfriend broke up with me" or "my life sucks" to ensure that thier intelligence is not raised any higher so that they are stupid enough to join the military or to be placed into a government job, and can add to the empire that is America! Well, maybe not that far, but I'm sure that the way this country and our educational systems are run is to turn people into sheep. Therefore, many of them grow up unsuspectingly as sheep, just following the flock, which follows the master. But some of us realize the master plan and have been drawn to something that is recognizably good compared to the canned songs of todays radio. Fuck em' I say. Dumb people deserve dumb music.
M King |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2003 : 19:54:45
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it is pretty sad that groups like metallica would one day get in to rock 'hall of fame', whereas frank black may/ or may not, despite the fact that he has had a significantly more profound effect on the progression of 'music' in general. it is true, however, that record companies do not want people listening to good music....someone once said that, "they (recording industry) do not want people to know about Captain Beefheart" because it would increase people's expectations of music and hurt the 'business' that thrives on disposable music.
"Cigarettes are within reach...Now its time to really read the books I've always pretended to have read." |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2003 : 20:19:37
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i don't think Frank was ever blacklisted, nor do i think he ever said he didn't believe in the craft (?)...
if you watch the TMBG documentary, an interview with a certain Elektra executive sheds some light on Frank's early solo-career. she talked about how after she left, all these assholes moved into Elektra who had no appreciation / idea how to market acts like Frank Black and TMBG.. and they got kind of swept by the wayside..
i think that was a pivotal period in Frank's career, and one of the significant reasons that he gets less attention (than he deserves of course).. not that everything revolves around marketing and a label backing you up, but it sure helps.
i think it's crazy how there are all these mainstay "indie rock" acts like Sonic Youth who, while good, can't hold a candle to Frank, yet still get consistent attention.. why should Frank slip into obscurity and Sonic Youth gets to play large venues? |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2003 : 22:12:36
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| Sonic Youth get to still play larger venues because they've kept the name Sonic Youth. If Frank kept the name Pixies he'd be playing the same size venues as SY right now. Likewise, if Thurston Moore went solo, he'd probably be playing Frank sized gigs. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2003 : 22:17:49
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| good point.. but Thurston Moore couldn't write Teenager Of The Year (and all others) |
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bazza
* Dog in the Sand *
Ireland
1439 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2003 : 05:01:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Brackish Girl
i looked at the irish album charts in hotpress a couple of days ago and radiohead and some other 'indie' stuff was quite high up.
a friend of mine who worked in HMV said they shifted a stack load of copies of 'dog' in its first week. i can see the new album selling loads too - hopefully.
Is your work done? Are all pigs fed, watered and ready to fly?....
- David Brent |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2003 : 07:35:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Itchload
Sonic Youth get to still play larger venues because they've kept the name Sonic Youth. If Frank kept the name Pixies he'd be playing the same size venues as SY right now. Likewise, if Thurston Moore went solo, he'd probably be playing Frank sized gigs.
True...
www.munchienandalusia.too.it |
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2003 : 08:20:01
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To quote the venerable stencillist Banksy:
"The time of getting fame for your name on its own is over. Artwork that is only about wanting to be famous will never make you famous. Any fame is a bi-product of making something that means something. You don't go to a restaurant and order a meal because you want to have a shit."
Beautifully articulated by ol' Banksy...but unfortunately it doesn't mean that formulaic unit-shifting behaviour won't make you lots of money (just that you'll never achieve eternal fame). |
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TOTIPOTENT
- Master of Differentiation -
USA
247 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2003 : 09:51:59
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For years, before this website, I thought he was Black Listed. I thought that he might have pissed some "important" people off or something. I mean, come on, 'Last Splash' cannot possibly be more impressive than any of the pixies, FB solo or catholics CDs by comparison! And still today I think Kim Deal out sells Frank?! NOTE: I agree with you all when you say "majority of people are complete idiots."
Hey mkingicus, what is so stupid/worthless/negative about being a GI? That is not a way to make friends... What do you do for a LIVING while I am in Baghdad working day-in and day-out within a 2-mile radius of my comrades perishing day-by-day? That may be me one day. If it was not for your great government/military, it might be you. Read and understand the quote below.
"Quid pro quo"
Differentiation at it's best... |
Edited by - TOTIPOTENT on 07/16/2003 09:58:31 |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2003 : 10:29:20
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quote:
Originally posted by TOTIPOTENT
[b]Hey mkingicus, what is so stupid/worthless/negative about being a GI? That is not a way to make friends... What do you do for a LIVING while I am in Baghdad working day-in and day-out within a 2-mile radius of my comrades perishing day-by-day? That may be me one day. If it was not for your great government/military, it might be you.]
Thank you TOTIPOTENT |
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MIRV
- FB Fan -
178 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2003 : 11:58:17
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are you kidding?
bands like system of a down and rage against the machine speak about lots of political issues....they aren't being silenced.
frank black isn't someone who is "cool" to listen to, which is why he hasn't gotten the mainstream attention. |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2003 : 12:15:16
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quote:
Originally posted by bazza
quote:
Originally posted by Brackish Girl
i looked at the irish album charts in hotpress a couple of days ago and radiohead and some other 'indie' stuff was quite high up.
a friend of mine who worked in HMV said they shifted a stack load of copies of 'dog' in its first week. i can see the new album selling loads too - hopefully.
Is your work done? Are all pigs fed, watered and ready to fly?....
- David Brent
woo hoo!
bored of the little comments. i guess i'll just have an actual signature. much shorter.
-Jessie |
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dougit
- FB Fan -
87 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2003 : 13:05:19
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Mirv, Frank Black did get a lot of attention with his first two solo albums, and especially with TOTY. Right after TOTY came out MTV was playing small bites off it at their MTV music awards, for that year. It was like background music as the award-winners walked up to the stage. Franks first two solo albums were by a major label-Electra (riding off the backs of 4AD).
Pixies got alot of attention, too. Sure they were 4AD for a few albums, but then they got picked up by Electra (a division of Warner Brothers), around the Doolittle time frame, and was with the pixies for their final three albums (to the best of my recollection).
I do think a part of this is that Frank Black demanded total controll of his music, as well as total ownership/copyrite, and the major lables will give that to almost nobody.
Frank chose artistic integrity over abject fame, and i am glad.
But, ohhh, those lyrics. Not for the fragile masses.
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2003 : 13:55:45
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dougit, he was on elektra in america but 4ad in europe(or britain, whatever).
bored of the little comments. i guess i'll just have an actual signature. much shorter.
-Jessie |
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mkingicus
- FB Fan -
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 07:24:07
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Look, I'm sorry if I have offended anyone who is in that position, and I'm sure you are all honest and good people. I just have my own opinions about government in general, not specifically the American one, but this is where I live and am being controled now. And believe me, I am thankful to be here and not in a country that is run by a dictator, but all govt' is a form of control, no matter how you look at it. Some would say it is crutial in maintaining order (and I agree), but you have to know that it is going to far at this stage. What the hell is wrong with peace and living as one desires without Osauma Bin Shithead attacking us because we are two countries with two different views? I just don't like being represented by something I have no power to change, and I would rather be disasociated with a society that believes killing is how to set this world straight. Why should it even be an issue? Why do we (the whole damn world) have to kill innocent people to prove a political point? Fighting for democracy and fighting for communism are bassicaly the same damn thing to me.
Sorry for straying off the topic and/or offending any of our many sodiers who are willing to give their life for this country.
M King |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 10:26:30
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this subject is almost absurd if given a rational eye BUT Lennon probably was watched by
the FBI -more likely in the late '60s/early'70s period - read up on Philip K. Dick(PKD-sci-fi writer of note)and you find that he most definitely was watched, as eyewitness accounts exist.
-lennon owned the rights to 'the three stigmata of palmer eldritch' by PKD and wanted to make
a film of it -if you think Blacks' lyrics are anti-establishment read PKDs' novels (-i can't
imagine black NOT having read most of them already), 3 stigmata is a good start -if you want a
fascinating read about a fascinating writer (he wrote the book that 'bladerunner' is based on
-all the other films adopted are from short stories and kind of 'dickish')-read his biography
as it details his days of using dreams to deal with the FBI traps and aliens projecting info
into his mind at night and seeing california overlayed with ancient greece.
-fun stuff!
-and yeah, it seems frank is kinda blacklisted -probably because of that goofy vector art on the cover of cult of ray...
-oh, buzz phrase: ..'out on the eisenhower, well i lost my speed..
R |
Edited by - blarg007 on 07/22/2003 10:35:00 |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 10:46:32
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PKD may very well have been watched, but i think it's safe to say that most of his "being watched" was full-blown paranoid fantasy..
not to knock PKD.. i'm a fan too (he grew up near my home town).
but the guy was off his rocker near the end there.. |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 12:58:47
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yeah...that's the interesting part
some of that period has the verification of witness
-and then you have to balance the fact that he went thru
a speed freak phase with hell's angels living in his house
and such -the biography (exact title escapes me at the moment)
is fascinating in it's thoroughness to the facts available.
i met someone in the desert one time that was obviously either
absolutely nuts or in touch with past lives and wandering the
earth according to communication with the other plain
-this dimension is merely theatre he explained
the last i saw he had traded his bicycle for a kayak
and was heading down the colorado to go to the aztec pyramids
(official business, i suppose)-people like black, PKD and D. Lynch
make me wonder if these types of asymmetrical awareness' are more
common -yet in some a stability is maintained...
R |
Edited by - blarg007 on 07/22/2003 13:13:12 |
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Perhaps
- FB Fan -
133 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 14:26:28
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| I'd say he's BLACK-listed. It does not seem that one can get air play unless one has been sold to the record companies, or is independently wealthy enough. FB is neither. Instead he bounces from label to label. Industry heads are probably pretty reluctant about carrying him, given he won't sell the future of his music. Without an insurance policy in an artist, they are probably fairly unwilling to support individual (single albums) efforts. They'd rather sign Jewel for several crappy albums, sell the shit out of her, and pull her out of her own pool of vomit in 2006. FB has BLACK-listed himself, thankfully. I'd have to speculate that with the unfortunate state of the music industry, I am not sure the establishment has ever heard about FB. |
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vegan
- FB Fan -
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 14:53:42
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| I'm quite glad he isn't all over the radio. As it is, he's my little secret. And everyone I ever meet that digs his spiel turns out to be totally cool with many commonalities between us. I thought about making a video game in which FB travels to several space bars around the galaxy to destrot the evil, shitty commercial biproducts (ie Bush Blink 14, Korn, [insert band name of that which follows the next 31 commercials on your radio/MTV] that are "entertaining" and lulling people into forking over their hard-earned cash for a cd filled with innocuous variations on a theme by MTV. But, alas, I myself may be black-listed by the gov for making a statement against apathy. |
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eebee
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
104 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2003 : 15:35:47
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i think the reason frank doesnt get played to much airplay stems from the early years- if he was more rockstar he would get more recognition-sad fact-take the vines guy-throws himself into stuff- stoned all the time radhe rah rockstar- frank stands completely still -like ian mcculloch-restrained but amazing songs -man im drunk
www.mp3.com/the_cosy_molars -please download the cosy molars demo ep off soulseek to give us a hand
http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2204 |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7441 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2003 : 01:32:18
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The main problem with the radio is that either you get no airplay at all, or you get too much airplay. Radios nowadays have about 40-50 songs that they're gonna play all day long, which means that you're gonna hear the same song 3-4 times a day. I'll take the White Stripes as an example. I like their songs, but I'm not gonna buy their latest record, cause if I hear one more time 7 Nation Army I think I'm gonna cry. "Alternative" radios here have played it over and over and it makes me sick. And it's a song I like, but the same thing happens with a lot of songs I truly hate (for instance, I think I've heard Blur's Out Of Time like a million times over the last month).
Everything Is New could get some airplay, but I don't want to hear it every hour for the next 2 months.
Denis |
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Omer
= Cult of Ray =
275 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2003 : 08:39:33
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Frankly (huh huh, but the title of this thread demands this :-), I don't think Frank Black is BLACK listed. I think that Frank's music is not popular for two reasons:
1. Frank does not have the look.
2. People's musical taste suck.
It's that easy. There is no big conspiracy to hide Frank Black. But, he does not have the looks and the sex appeal to sell himself. That's why Nirvana was always more popular then the Pixies. They look good on MTV.
Also, people's taste suck. Alternative Rock was 'in' in the early 90s, but it was fading out in the mid 90s, and my guess is that the decline in popularity of Alternative rock is the major cause behind Frank's sharp decline in visibility. As David Bowie might have said "it's fa-fa-fashion"
And... there's the 'new' element. After you've been around for a while, you're not as Fresh. People have heard your story. Even masters of reinvention like David Bowie can only play the game for so long.
So... no, I don't think Frank has been BLACK listed, I think the people have spoken and they don't wanna hear Frank. Their loss.
Omer |
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dougit
- FB Fan -
87 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2003 : 17:09:11
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you know, my original post should not have said,"I don't believe in the craft." It should have said, "I don't believe in the ART." However, I may have been having an Albert-Pike-Type of moment, when I said that back then, and the entire idea must be disregarded.
I do think that the last 4 paragraphs of my original post are correct, though.
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