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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
 Posted - 06/15/2003 : 07:21:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rutherford
it just seems like it makes the song sink to a lower level for some reason. It just doesn't go well with the song and sounds as though it was added just for the purpose of adding the word "fuck"
Well if anything he tried not to put it in the song, because he said at an in-store last tour that his wife didn't like it in there but it was the only word that he could think of that rhymed. I personally don't give a shit what he says but it is kind-of nice to have an album without him saying fuck so you can listen to it around the parents
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spunXtain
= Cult of Ray =
USA
377 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2003 : 08:29:10
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After about a dozen listens, enough to memorize every word, my take on the album is that it's very good, if not quite what I expected. The songs that he has been playing live, I wish they had recorded the same way as they have been playing them. Massife Centrale was so awesome with the muted guitar in the chorus, I loved that. Now it's not there at all, just piano.
Manitoba is like my second to last LEAST favorite, behind This Old Heartache. I dont like that song at all. I've never skipped any track on any of the albums until now.
I dunno, I dont think it sounds demo-ish, sort of a mix between Devil's Workshop and Black Letter Days, but not as good as either. It grows on you though, just like any album. So it's currently my least favorite Catholics album, but we'll see...
Got coffee, got donuts, got wasted.. |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2003 : 09:36:54
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see, i don't really love manitoba as a song - i think the melody/chords are sorta weak, but i really enjoy the arrangement on the album
-brian |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2003 : 10:15:44
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| Well, if you don't listen to Manitoba at all and keep skipping, you'll never like it. I quite like it, although I found the live version more dark (maybe just the vocals). And I liked the staggered chords following the chord progression instead of staying on C (I believe). But the new intro's pretty awesome, and the outro as well. Overall, I can't get enough of listening to the new album, and there are things I liked live that aren't there and there are things I like on the album that weren't live, but it's great that they're different because it's like I have two different version of the same song from Frank. Kind of like SSMVGD. |
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fumanbru
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1462 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2003 : 11:50:27
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i think the new album is absolutely amazing!! i've had it on serious rotation for the last 2 days and it usually it takes me about a week before i really get into a new frank album. the songs are really catchy and you just want to sing along. i think the album will appeal to a much larger audience. hopefully frank can attract some new fans and get some commercial recognition that he totally deserves. there's no reason why a chunk of these songs shouldn't be on the radio. right now my favorites are massif centrale, coastline, goodbye lorraine, everything is new, and horrible day.
my wife says it's her favorite frank album. she likes it because of some of the slower numbers, great melodies, and the fact the he's not screaming as much (i love the screaming). i really like it cause once again frank's going in a slightly different direction and he's trying new things out. i love all the new instruments on the album. the piano sounds fantastic and the horns at the end of manitoba close off the album with a tremendous bang.
some made a few comments that they would prefer if frank didn't use the word fuck in some of his lyrics. everyone has a right to their own personal opinion but i have no problem with him saying fuck, or you fuckin die, or you are the son of a mother fucker. i actually kind of like it. it's a great fuckin word and you can use it in some many different ways. you can't hide it from the kids because it's such a common word in our language.
back to the album. fuckin awesome!! i think frank should get nominated for a grammy.
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2003 : 12:25:54
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| I actually SAY the word "fuck" around my family. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2003 : 13:40:00
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I think that when a word is used incessantly and in all applications, it loses all meaning, impact, and emotion. It's just filler, in my ears, mostly used by ignorant people because that's about the only thing they can come up with to say. Limited vocabularies and so forth. Not to say that's what all of you are, but that's not my point anyway.
As for being able to listen around the family, just overdub 'kumquat'. Chef recommends. |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2003 : 17:03:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
I think that when a word is used incessantly and in all applications, it loses all meaning, impact, and emotion. It's just filler, in my ears, mostly used by ignorant people because that's about the only thing they can come up with to say. Limited vocabularies and so forth. Not to say that's what all of you are, but that's not my point anyway.
As for being able to listen around the family, just overdub 'kumquat'. Chef recommends.
I use the word incessantly at times myself and still to my ears it sounds out of place in "Horrible Day" for some reason. Frank is usually spot on with his curse words, but he missed the mark at least for me in that one. |
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Chip Away Boy
= Cult of Ray =
914 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2003 : 18:15:29
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| my friend said he sounds like Louie Andersone when he says fuck in that song |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2003 : 19:19:45
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i have to say it strikes me as interesting how everyone says Frank's last two are his best yet etc..
i'm looking forward to the next album as much as everyone else.. that aside, in the mean time, i sincerely feel that neither Black Letter Days nor Devil's Workshop measure up to the genius that is Dog In The Sand.
has everyone already forgotten how fucking great DITS is? i think it's an almost-perfect album. . whereas Black Letter Days, while it has some of Frank's best songs, is more uneven as an album, in my opinion..
Devil's Workshop i honestly don't listen to that often..
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Edited by - floop on 06/15/2003 19:22:09 |
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ingersoll
- FB Fan -
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2003 : 19:53:00
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ive tried to download something, anything, from the new album on kazaa...to no avail. i really hope i dont have to wait until september.
oh, by the way, this is my first post.
before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. that way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
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spunXtain
= Cult of Ray =
USA
377 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2003 : 20:30:41
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quote:
Originally posted by ingersoll
ive tried to download something, anything, from the new album on kazaa...to no avail. i really hope i dont have to wait until september.
oh, by the way, this is my first post.
before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. that way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
I have had the new album on Kazaa for the past 2 nights, all night long, with a maximum of 30 downloads at once. I've never seen over 5 at once though. If you can find me (spunXtain) on kazaa.. go directly to my files and get it there. You should see my name by just doing a search on Frank Black and the Catholics. Then you can search my files, I dont think there is another way to browse by specific user.
BTW everything off of Show Me Your Tears, for me, is under artist "Frank Black & The Catholics" instead of using the word "and". That's just how I recieved them and I havent bothered changing it yet. And yes, it created a seperate "artist" folder for this, so I think it does make a difference what you search for.
Got coffee, got donuts, got wasted.. |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2003 : 21:01:08
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
i have to say it strikes me as interesting how everyone says Frank's last two are his best yet etc..
i'm looking forward to the next album as much as everyone else.. that aside, in the mean time, i sincerely feel that neither Black Letter Days nor Devil's Workshop measure up to the genius that is Dog In The Sand.
has everyone already forgotten how fucking great DITS is? i think it's an almost-perfect album. . whereas Black Letter Days, while it has some of Frank's best songs, is more uneven as an album, in my opinion..
Devil's Workshop i honestly don't listen to that often..
I think DITS is fantastic, but like Workshop and ESPECIALLY BLD better. Something about those 2 records just blows me away every time I listen to them. From the dirty sound to the whole atmosphere of the steel pedal...total genius IMO. Both albums also feature my favorite Frank lyrics to date. |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2003 : 21:24:12
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| I kind of think of Dog in the Sand as Sgt Peppers, with BLD and DW as the White Album...they're just as good as eachother, but polar opposites. Dog in the Sand is 12 great songs while the last two albums don't have as good enough individual songs, but as a whole work really well together by bouncing off each other, ext. |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 01:17:50
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Itchload: this is a great interpretation. And I prefer the White Album over St Peppers.
Denis |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 02:22:52
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
i have to say it strikes me as interesting how everyone says Frank's last two are his best yet etc..
i'm looking forward to the next album as much as everyone else.. that aside, in the mean time, i sincerely feel that neither Black Letter Days nor Devil's Workshop measure up to the genius that is Dog In The Sand.
has everyone already forgotten how fucking great DITS is? i think it's an almost-perfect album. . whereas Black Letter Days, while it has some of Frank's best songs, is more uneven as an album, in my opinion..
Devil's Workshop i honestly don't listen to that often..
True.D.I.T.S is the best catholics album.B.L.D & D.W are good but too long,so inevitably they have highs and lows.
And i still think that the new one is not that good.
www.munchienandalusia.too.it |
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 02:32:20
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Did all the people here who absolutely love 'Black Letter Days' instantly like it or did it just slowly seep into your soul? I only ask as I find it the least appealing of all the solo albums though 'Black Rider', 'Black Letter Days' and 'Whispering Weeds' are all fantastic songs). |
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Devils Islander
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
101 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 03:35:39
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Perhaps I'm just easily pleased, but I truly believe that ALL of Frank's albums to date are works of genius, and anybody who thinks otherwise should be chased naked through a gorse thicket by angry bees.
PS..rumour has it that on his next album, as well as "fuck", Frank is going to incorporate the words "poo", "winky", and "bum-hole" into his lyrics - so cover your granny's ears. |
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alfiw
- FB Fan -
25 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 04:07:04
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i didn't care for Black Letter Days and Devil's Workshop for the first few times i've listened to it. i downloaded them a few months before the official release and i really didn't like most of the songs except His Kingly Cave wich instantly blew my mind.
i didn't get into the albums until the official release when i had the original cds in my cd-player and now i think devil's workshop is by far franks best work (i love all his other albums too) right before black letter days.
i guess it's just unlikely to fall into a frank album by the first listen. |
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 04:11:34
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Don't get me wrong, I've given 'Black Letter Days' a reasonable chance to grow on me...but asides from the tracks i mentioned earlier, it doesn't move me and I much prefer Devils Workshop (which I also think is one of his best). i guess it's just a question of different tastes, that's all. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 05:13:50
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don't get me wrong, i love Black Letter Days.. that's all i've been listening to these days. but i don't think it measures up to DITS.. "Blast Off" alone makes DITS sheer genius.
overall, DITS feels like it has more loving care and detail work put into it, where they took the time to really work through some already great songs to make them perfect.
the newer albums are lacking that (slightly).. though, as some have said, that's kind of the feel he's going for anyway..
all i'm saying is, among all this talk of DW and BLD greatness, let us not forget their (superior) forfather, DITS.
in fact, next time, before you take it out of your cd case for a listen, take a moment to kneel down in front of it, lower your head, give thanks, and kindly ask it to forgive you for your thoughts about BLD and DW.. i'm sure it will forgive you.
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Edited by - floop on 06/16/2003 05:16:24 |
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atomicbart
- FB Fan -
France
32 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 06:34:53
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Hi,
Do you really think that frank black is happy to know that a few month before his WORK is on sale a lot of people have downloaded it from kaaza, and give her feelling about his news songs ?
Do you have a small part of respect for him ?
This man is on the road all the year, it's his passion, it's his work and almost each year we have the great pleasure to buy and discover a synthesis of his work in one (or two), reccord(s), we can wait, chat about it but not try get it without his consent. That's my opinion and my own pleasure, i will wait september, and then maybe i will have the right to give my feeling about this opus.
Atomicbart |
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Jonathan Bennett
- FB Fan -
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 07:07:24
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Okay folks. I think opinion bashing is pretty pointless. Opinionating is okay. But don't tell me I have to listen to "more music" just because I like Manitoba. I love the new album. and yes mommeee, I will buy a copy when it really comes out. and I'll give it to someone I love. Frank has PLENTY of my money from the last 14 years.
J. Bennett
http://www.smallestsound.com |
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faskner
- FB Fan -
Brazil
75 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 07:23:51
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actually, i think that all this talk about frank's new album will make more people interested in his work. and why not more people going to his concerts and buying his records? that's what happened to the white stripes, to radiohead, to the strokes and so many other bands. i have all his records, and if i find the new one for download of course i will take it - i just won't wait to hear it. and of course i will buy it the moment i see it in the store. i need to have it packaged, with lyrics and all the stuff.
i think that the thousands of fans that downloaded the new radiohead album have much respect to the band. they love the band and will buy everything that they will ever release. the same with many of frank's fans, i think. |
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Jerk on Perks
- FB Fan -
Canada
28 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 07:29:20
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| Now for my opinion, not that anyone cares - though you all should because all my opinions are correct. I have only listened to two of the songs from the new album. I have listened to Manitoba, and Coastline. I seriously hope that the rest of the album is as good as these two tracks. I have not heard anything this good from Frank since before he named his band the Catholics. |
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Perhaps
- FB Fan -
133 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 07:49:12
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Many, but not all. It is probably impossible that the # of people that download the album = # of people that purchase the album. How much money the man has is not the point. People should not be getting the album for the sake self-gratification, but for respect for the artistry, which does not seem to require "premature purchase". It seems pretty funny that people give in because they can't wait. Essentially saying I WANT/NEED to respect the music now. Sounds a bit strange to me.
Great to hear the album rocks. I will thoroughly enjoy. I will be on the street corner outside my local cd shop the midnite of release. Such has been the case with all of my FB purchases (yes ALL studio releases).And the wait will be well worth it - as you'all can probably affirm. |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 10:43:43
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
don't get me wrong, i love Black Letter Days.. that's all i've been listening to these days. but i don't think it measures up to DITS.. "Blast Off" alone makes DITS sheer genius.
overall, DITS feels like it has more loving care and detail work put into it, where they took the time to really work through some already great songs to make them perfect.
the newer albums are lacking that (slightly).. though, as some have said, that's kind of the feel he's going for anyway..
all i'm saying is, among all this talk of DW and BLD greatness, let us not forget their (superior) forfather, DITS.
in fact, next time, before you take it out of your cd case for a listen, take a moment to kneel down in front of it, lower your head, give thanks, and kindly ask it to forgive you for your thoughts about BLD and DW.. i'm sure it will forgive you.
Well, Blast Off is my LEAST favorite track on DITS. Other tracks I don't care much for: Robert Onion (not bad, but average at best IMO), Stupid Me (skip it everytime) & the title track (boring). My favorite song from DITS is If It Takes All Night followed by The Swimmer, followed by I've Seen Your Picture. I'll Be Blue is a great one too. And though most of my friends HATE, for some odd reason, Llano Del Rio, I personally enjoy that one as well.
However, BLD has the following amazing songs: California Round, Chip Away Boy, Cold Heart Of Stone, Black Letter Day, How You Went So Far, End Of Miles, Southbound Bevy, I Will Run After You, Jane the Queen Of Love, Jet Black River & 21 Reasons. Workshop has the following amazing songs: Out Of State (some amazing Lyle git work in that one), His Kingly Cave, San Antonio Tx., Bartholomew, Are You Headed My Way, Heloise, The Scene & Whiskey In Your Shoes. That's 19 songs that I deem irresistable. There are 3 songs from both albums I don't particularly care for: 1826, Black Rider II & Modern Age. I never did like Modern Age and the Workshop version didn't change my mind (though it IS better than the previous versions. 1826 is ok sometimes though it usually gets skipped over and Black Rider version II is just boring IMO. But still, 19 songs that all hit a home run for me. |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 10:50:25
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quote:
Many, but not all. It is probably impossible that the # of people that download the album = # of people that purchase the album. How much money the man has is not the point. People should not be getting the album for the sake self-gratification, but for respect for the artistry, which does not seem to require "premature purchase". It seems pretty funny that people give in because they can't wait. Essentially saying I WANT/NEED to respect the music now. Sounds a bit strange to me.
They send promos out so that people will hear the music early and spread a buzz about it. Usually resulting in much more good than harm for quality indie artists like FB.
IMO, whether you work in a record shop and get promos, write for a weekly or monthly publication and get promos, work for a radio station and get promos or download the album from Kazaa or another P2P, fact of the matter is, you are hearing the album early and you, especially if you are a fan to begin with, are going to start talking your opinion, good or bad, of the album and it will be up to you whether or not you legitimately purchase the album when it hits the stores. I don't think that it is being disrespectful at all. I think it is what the label and artists expect will happen as soon as the promos ship out. |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 11:04:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rutherford
quote:
Many, but not all. It is probably impossible that the # of people that download the album = # of people that purchase the album. How much money the man has is not the point. People should not be getting the album for the sake self-gratification, but for respect for the artistry, which does not seem to require "premature purchase". It seems pretty funny that people give in because they can't wait. Essentially saying I WANT/NEED to respect the music now. Sounds a bit strange to me.
They send promos out so that people will hear the music early and spread a buzz about it. Usually resulting in much more good than harm for quality indie artists like FB.
IMO, whether you work in a record shop and get promos, write for a weekly or monthly publication and get promos, work for a radio station and get promos or download the album from Kazaa or another P2P, fact of the matter is, you are hearing the album early and you, especially if you are a fan to begin with, are going to start talking your opinion, good or bad, of the album and it will be up to you whether or not you legitimately purchase the album when it hits the stores. I don't think that it is being disrespectful at all. I think it is what the label and artists expect will happen as soon as the promos ship out.
I downloaded it last night.
Many thanks to the cool dudes on SoulSeek, you know who you be.
I really feel dirty for doing it, but my gosh and golly, you KNOW I'LL buy the cd in multiple copies when it's out.
Haven't been able to sit still long enopugh to listen to it all the way through and I don't have a cd player in my car.
As soon as I can sit down, send some smoke up and take it all in, I'll comment.
I do weigh in on the "get the buzz started bandwagon". It's obvious. |
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Jonathan Bennett
- FB Fan -
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 11:15:54
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I don't know if the idea of buying a used copy of a promo is being attacked here...
That would be way too stupid. Like it has been said, these serve one purpose. To spread the word, and get the people talking. What good does a promo do on some Ad-Mans desk when all he's into is Celine Dion! I have legitimately bought all cd's Mr. Black has recorded, and several duplicate copies/singles/and a dozen or so concert tickets/t-shirts. This whole downloading of music is a bit different. Sure lots of people end up with stolen music, but lots more people GET the music, and ....Oh geez.. blah blah blah..... Show me your tears in playing in my stereo right now, and all that matters is that it is a really good rock record.
J. Bennett
http://www.smallestsound.com |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 19:11:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rutherford
quote:
Originally posted by floop
don't get me wrong, i love Black Letter Days.. that's all i've been listening to these days. but i don't think it measures up to DITS.. "Blast Off" alone makes DITS sheer genius.
overall, DITS feels like it has more loving care and detail work put into it, where they took the time to really work through some already great songs to make them perfect.
the newer albums are lacking that (slightly).. though, as some have said, that's kind of the feel he's going for anyway..
all i'm saying is, among all this talk of DW and BLD greatness, let us not forget their (superior) forfather, DITS.
in fact, next time, before you take it out of your cd case for a listen, take a moment to kneel down in front of it, lower your head, give thanks, and kindly ask it to forgive you for your thoughts about BLD and DW.. i'm sure it will forgive you.
Well, Blast Off is my LEAST favorite track on DITS. Other tracks I don't care much for: Robert Onion (not bad, but average at best IMO), Stupid Me (skip it everytime) & the title track (boring). My favorite song from DITS is If It Takes All Night followed by The Swimmer, followed by I've Seen Your Picture. I'll Be Blue is a great one too. And though most of my friends HATE, for some odd reason, Llano Del Rio, I personally enjoy that one as well.
However, BLD has the following amazing songs: California Round, Chip Away Boy, Cold Heart Of Stone, Black Letter Day, How You Went So Far, End Of Miles, Southbound Bevy, I Will Run After You, Jane the Queen Of Love, Jet Black River & 21 Reasons. Workshop has the following amazing songs: Out Of State (some amazing Lyle git work in that one), His Kingly Cave, San Antonio Tx., Bartholomew, Are You Headed My Way, Heloise, The Scene & Whiskey In Your Shoes. That's 19 songs that I deem irresistable. There are 3 songs from both albums I don't particularly care for: 1826, Black Rider II & Modern Age. I never did like Modern Age and the Workshop version didn't change my mind (though it IS better than the previous versions. 1826 is ok sometimes though it usually gets skipped over and Black Rider version II is just boring IMO. But still, 19 songs that all hit a home run for me.
nonetheless, that's 19 songs from 2 albums. if you combined the best songs from DW and BLD you could probably come up with something that is arguably better than DITS. but for now, as an album, DITS is the reigning Catholics champ in my eyes.
everyone always has wildly different opinoins about this stuff, but i honestly can't comprehend a Frank Black & the catholics fan not appreciating "Blast Off".. that's like, the catholics melding together at their best.. (plus joey!)..
and there's no way that "Jet Black River", "How You Went So Far" or "Cold Heart Of Stone" hold a candle to anything off DITS (except maybe "Llano Del Rio)..
yep, just more opinions.. :) |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 19:27:00
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quote:
nonetheless, that's 19 songs from 2 albums. if you combined the best songs from DW and BLD you could probably come up with something that is arguably better than DITS. but for now, as an album, DITS is the reigning Catholics champ in my eyes.
Well, Im not saying that I dislike the other songs (the 3 I mentioned are the only ones I really don't care too much for), just that the 19 that I listed are all "incredible" to me. So out of what, 29 songs, I really like 26 of them. whereas with DITS I really like 8 of the 12. So that puts BLD & DW ahead by 1 point (and that's out of a massive 29 songs!).....
quote:
everyone always has wildly different opinoins about this stuff, but i honestly can't comprehend a Frank Black & the catholics fan not appreciating "Blast Off".. that's like, the catholics melding together at their best.. (plus joey!)..
Wasn't there a "survivor" with DITS...I think I remember it. Don't remember how "Blast Off" did, but with other FB fans I've interacted with it seems to be a love/hate thing. I just think it's quite monotonous, overlong and just bores me. The musicianship and everything is great, but the song itself just screams "skip me" everytime I pop the disc in.
quote:
and there's no way that "Jet Black River", "How You Went So Far" or "Cold Heart Of Stone" hold a candle to anything off DITS (except maybe "Llano Del Rio)..
No way do the songs "Stupid Me" or "DITS" compare to any of the above.
quote:
yep, just more opinions.. :)
 Yep, like the old saying goes, they're just like assholes-all of us have them  |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2003 : 23:38:45
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i'm really not a jet black river fan at all - i think thats such a toss off track its not even funny - i have similar feelings about whispering weeds
-brian |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2003 : 01:30:25
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Jet Black River is one of my fave's
actually
''it's not a box, it's a submarine'' |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2003 : 06:22:32
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
Jet Black River is one of my fave's
actually
me too |
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