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Chip Away Boy
= Cult of Ray =
914 Posts |
 Posted - 05/30/2003 : 22:19:36
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| Which was the first one? |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2003 : 23:12:40
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well, technically, we can never say because i'm sure they/he recorded "live to two track" for demos and whatnot.. but FB&C's self-titled, god bless it's soul, fucking excellent album, was Frank's first live to two track album.
i heard an interview somewhere where Frank said that when they recorded the FB&C self titled as a demo, the band and Frank agreed that it sounded "like we sound live".. and liked it. and thus spawned the whole recording style that followed..
i been drinking. |
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Chris Knight
= Cult of Ray =
USA
899 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2003 : 00:29:54
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| Ha! Me so drunk me see an upside-down question mark in the thread title. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6183 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2003 : 05:10:50
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I read that it was indeed a demo, but that it was one to impress a producer. The producer said it was the best demo he had ever heard and that they should release it.
''it's not a box, it's a submarine'' |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2003 : 05:45:33
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i asked matt yelton once, "why doesnt frank put out a live record?"...he responded, "everything past cult of ray has been a live record."
ok, stupid me?
...and evolving from the sea, would not be too much time for me, to walk beside you in the sun.... |
Edited by - frank_black_francis on 05/31/2003 05:45:57 |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2003 : 10:12:12
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| ...and that's how they were dropped from American Recordings. They refused to release FB&TC cause it sounded "too much like a demo"...they wanted it re-recorded. |
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Omer
= Cult of Ray =
275 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2003 : 10:31:20
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| I still want a live album! radically new versions of 'Gauge Away' and 'Hemaphroditos' and 'Headahce'. |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2003 : 10:46:28
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| Well the 2 shows off hearitagain.net are virtually the same as a live album, only without artwork or anything. |
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
653 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2003 : 11:20:01
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I read that it was indeed a demo, but that it was one to impress a producer. The producer said it was the best demo he had ever heard and that they should release it.
Frank was signed as a solo artist to Rick Rubin's American Recordings label after the disappointing sales of Teenager of The Year. While Rubin has a reputation among many underappreciated artists as being a sort of benefactor when it comes to adding them to his roster, he also has a bit of a rep for crafting onerous contracts that find the artists making very little (if any) money from their recordings.
According to Frank, his own deal with Rubin was one of the best of his career as far as artistic freedom goes, and he also told me that Rubin never stiffed him on the royalties, which is more than can be said of other labels.
However, the first FB & The C's album was originally meant as a set of demos for Rubin himself to consider producing as a full-fledged album.
Rubin has produced successful records for everyone from The Beastie Boys to Johnny Cash and Tom Petty, and I'll always wonder what a Rubin-helmed FB disc would have sounded like. He's known for a natural, organic style of production that has less to do with technical perfection than it does for glossy sonic sheen and emotional wallop. It might have served The Catholics well...
The way I heard it, Rubin liked the songs very much but felt they lacked polish, and was mulling over whether or not to take on the project personally, which would have upped the budget considerably (as well as Frank's debt to the label), but at least guaranteed a lot of additional publicity surrounding its release.
But, during this same time period, the band was fielding compliments from a variety of friends and industry folks who had heard the demos and thought they sounded more heartfelt and honest than most of Frank's multi-tracked records, including The Cult of Ray, which had been ironically dismissed by some critics as sounding "like an unfinished demo," despite the fact that it was a 16-track recording with more than a bit of thought put into it.
The band supposedly began to warm to the idea of leaving the tracks the way they were, which probably had a lot to do with the fact that those sessions wound up coming off much more like a gritty, late '70s LP by someone like Iggy Pop or The Dead Boys than anything FB had done before.
Plus, there's always the feeling that you're kicking everyone else's ass by laying it down that tight and tough without the benefit of fixes or sweetening.
When approached with the idea of leaving the thing the way it was, Rubin balked, and refused to let it out in that state. Now, maybe he was just smarting from essentially being turned down as producer, or maybe he had already decided to skip their project entirely. Who knows? What is certain, though, is that American Recordings used the wording of Frank's contract to insist that he not release it as recorded, while simultaneously blocking him from offering it to any other labels – even if they were willing to pony up the dough to pay back American for the recording time and essentially buy him out of his contract.
This is unfortunately a common practice by many labels who don't have faith in their ability to properly promote a record, but are horribly afraid that if someone else succeds at it, they'll look like chumps for letting it slip through their hands.
So he was in limbo for many agonizing months, forced to sit quietly on a record he felt strongly about, unable to promote or even let many people hear it for fear of mass bootlegging which would pre-empt any real release at a later date.
If I recall correctly, he didn't tour much during this time, as I'm sure he felt it was counter-productive since he had no record to promote.
Just about the time this whole thing was reaching critical mass, his manager Ken Goes sent a small number of unmarked copies of the album to the heads of several indie and major labels, with no indication of who the artist was, and implied that it was the debut release by an unknown and unsigned band. This may have been tied in with SXSW.
Rumor was that most of them fell over backwards praising the album and a significant amount of interest was generated in this "mystery band."
The artist's identity was eventually revealed, and I can't help but think that publicity stunt and the rumors of Frank's debilitating contractual situation helped break the logjam with American, as he was eventually allowed (one supposes) to simply buy back the rights to those masters, and do with them whatever he wished. Since then, he has set up individual licensing agreements with different labels in different countries and territories across the globe, which is often a much harder scenario to manage and in which to collect royalties, but affords infinitely greater flexibility for him as an artist.
He's essentially tied to no one and can presumably go with a different label for each release. It's a testament to his relationship with Spinart that he seems happy enough to have remained with them for so long. He can also strike deals with people like EMusic and HearItAgain without having to dicker with toadies in suits who don't understand or trust their business models.
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
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Omer
= Cult of Ray =
275 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2003 : 04:08:19
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| Interesting, Peter, although I must have admit I haven't heard most of this before. Can you direct us to the sources or is this from the man himself? can Harris or anyone confirm this? I don't mean to doubt you coz your info is usually accurate, but I've never heard of any of this before, and normally I keep track on FB news |
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
653 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2003 : 06:13:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Omer
Interesting, Peter, although I must have admit I haven't heard most of this before. Can you direct us to the sources or is this from the man himself? can Harris or anyone confirm this? I don't mean to doubt you coz your info is usually accurate, but I've never heard of any of this before, and normally I keep track on FB news
The information contained in my post (as opposed to the clearly-marked conjecture) was derived from a private conversation I had with Frank a few weeks before the release of Pistolero, conversations I've had with a few close associates of Rick Rubin's, and a brief trade magazine article about some music industry seminar (which may have been Austin, TX's South By Southwest showcase) where Frank's self-titled Catholics album was "leaked" by his management under an assumed name in an attempt to generate buzz and help get the album rescued from the American label. This was published several months before the eventul release of that first Catholics album, but alas, I did not save the clipping and can't recall what publication it came from.
This is only the story as it was presented to me, and it may in fact be inaccurate. If anyone in the band or anyone connected with Frank's management would care to weigh in on this topic, it would of course be appreciated, as I certainly don't wish to spread misinformation (unless it's April 1st).
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
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