-= Frank Black Forum =-
-= Frank Black Forum =-
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
 All Forums
 Frank Black Chat
 Here Comes Your Subbacultcha
 Not worth a topic, but at least postable...

Note: You must be registered in order to post a reply.
To register, click here. Registration is FREE!

Screensize:
UserName:
Password:
Format Mode:
Format: BoldItalicizedUnderlineStrikethrough Align LeftCenteredAlign Right Horizontal Rule Insert HyperlinkInsert EmailInsert Image Insert CodeInsert QuoteInsert List
   
Message:

* HTML is OFF
* Forum Code is ON
Smilies
Smile [:)] Big Smile [:D] Cool [8D] Blush [:I]
Tongue [:P] Evil [):] Wink [;)] Clown [:o)]
Black Eye [B)] Eight Ball [8] Frown [:(] Shy [8)]
Shocked [:0] Angry [:(!] Dead [xx(] Sleepy [|)]
Kisses [:X] Approve [^] Disapprove [V] Question [?]

 
   

T O P I C    R E V I E W
Carl Posted - 09/09/2009 : 03:04:03
Okay, so the old 'Really not worth a topic' thread is a total mess, with lots of stuff that's really not worth posting AT ALL. So, I thought I'd start a new thread for little articles and things, but not cram it with every little thing that mentions Pixies! So anyway, came across this and hopefully this is an example of something possibly worth posting:

NYTimes.com - Living With Music: A Playlist by Joanna Smith Rakoff.

1) Is She Weird, Pixies. Nowadays, when people talk about the 1990s, the first band they mention is Nirvana, but for me — and most of my college-radio-station-DJ, record-store-regular friends — that era was all about the Pixies, with their irresistible, genre-busting sound: the slow, precise bass, the shifting tempo, the eerie hiss and scream of Black Francis. In 1990, when “Bossanova” came out, I listened to it endlessly — even though it wasn’t on the level of “Doolittle” or “Come on Pilgrim” — thrilled by this brief, odd song, a freaky gloss on Macbeth: “Is she weird? / Is she white? / Is she promised to the night? / And her head has no room.” I was 18 then, and felt very weird and very white.
35   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Bedbug Posted - 12/03/2022 : 16:57:06
I think this is what I would do, 12 songs in this order, a sick album

Bagboy
Women of War
Cyrus
Get Simulated
Who's More Sorry Now
Los Surfers Muertos
Death Horizon
The Tenement Song
Mambo Sun
How I Learned to Earn Rewards
Haunted House
Magdalena 318
Sprite Posted - 12/03/2022 : 04:44:36
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

I almost replaced Pagan Man with Who's More Sorry Now. It was neck and neck at the last moment. I like both songs enough, but I think Pagan Man is just slightly more interesting, and...it's just kind of cute and appealing and catchy?

I am always in favor of MORE SONGS so I am glad nothing like this actually happened, and I still really wish we could hear so many of these reject songs that didn't make it...I wish I understood why it had to be only 12 songs on an album. How about like...14 or 15...? To me, these albums feel a bit short.



Have to agree with you there. I remember walking home giddy from the record shop with the 15 on Doolittle, 14 on Bossanova, 15 on Trompe. It was just great. AND we'd get the 3 extra tracks on the 12 inches. And that's before we get to Teenager, BLD, FMRM. Maybe I'd wrong but I feel that is the influence of Tom trying to make a perfect '12' record but not understanding that a perfect '15' record is more perfect by definition!
Sprite Posted - 12/03/2022 : 04:37:13
Enjoying this discussion a lot. Here's my top 15

Thunder & Lightning
Who's more sorry now?
Hey Debussy
Under the Marigold
Bird of Prey
Ring the Bell
Snakes
Plaster of Paris
Get Simulated
Doggerel
Nomatterday
Ready for Love
Death Horizon
Hear me out

Doggerel heavy, Head Carrier Light. Was actually quite hard, I'd say there are 25ish Pixies 2.0 tunes that I think are top drawer.

Doggerel is *still* giving to me. Pagan Man was #12 at the start but it's rising steadily the last couple of weeks.
Troubles A Foot Posted - 12/01/2022 : 17:45:52
What can I say? I just dig the songs more. You may be right that if Cain, etc were more "hidden gems" I'd appreciate them more...I've always been a sucker for b-sides and rarities. But all I can really confirm is...I just dig the songs! I especially love the lyrics more than the ones throughout much of BTE, they feel more raw and kind of punk and less fussed over or something.
Brank_Flack Posted - 12/01/2022 : 17:17:35
No doubt they're good recordings, but every song on the demoes record being in the top 15 seems a bit absurd. Surely In the Arms of Mrs. Mark of Cain, Death Horizon, Doggerel, etc are better than *some* of the songs on the demoes record? It just seems like there is a much higher standard being applied to BTE than Doggerel. Yes, the looser/off-the-cuff nature of the demoes songs are nice, but I can't help but feel that if "I Just Can't Break It to You," for example, was on Beneath the Eyrie it would be criticized as being too bland and Catholic-y, and that if Death Horizon or Doggerel were on the b-side record they would be heralded as the return of the real Frank Black, etc. It seems that part of what is going on is that the demoes don't have the pressure of being a proper "Pixies" album, so are loved for what they are, while the records themselves receive somewhat ungenerous criticism for failing to live up to the ideal of a Platonic Pixies record.

Sorry, I don't mean to come off as dismissive as I probably am!
Troubles A Foot Posted - 12/01/2022 : 08:17:48
I genuinely don't understand how those songs in particular aren't loved by fans of Frank Black's music. They're incredibly catchy, interesting, touching, and I'm not sure I've heard the band be more in sync and creative in recent years. They actually sound like a great rock band on these. There's so much joy and inspiration coming out of these recordings.
Brank_Flack Posted - 12/01/2022 : 06:18:25
Oh my.

I like the demoes, but the only song on it that I would put on a top 15 of the last two albums is The Good Works of Cyrus. *Maybe* Mal De Mer, but I don't know if it would fit well. I can't fathom putting Under the Marigold, How I learned to Earn Rewards, or I just Can't Break It to You in there.
Troubles A Foot Posted - 11/30/2022 : 22:52:43
Sure, I'd put Human Crime ahead of a few of the songs, I think. I like it.

I think Hear Me Out is quite boring.

If I were including the BTE demos in this, the track list of 15 would be:

The Good Works of Cyrus
Please, Don't Go
Chapel Hill
Caught in a Dream
Mal De Mer
Hey, Debussy
Under the Marigold
How I Learned to Earn Rewards
I Just Can't Break It to You
Catfish Kate
Silver Bullet
Bird of Prey
Daniel Boone
Dregs of the Wine
Get Simulated



The only weird one for me is I actually skip Please, Don't Go due to personal sad reasons, but I do think it's a wonderful song and it should be on an album. I just can't listen to it because it came at a very specific time and I can't break the association.
Brank_Flack Posted - 11/30/2022 : 13:05:51
Yes, that is interesting. Particularly since one might say that the chorus of Doggerel and the second half of Nomatterday (or at least, its verses) are the most Catholics-esque moments of the album.

I think you might be onto something - I think Charles put a lot of effort into crafting the songs of Indie Cindy, which were then largely (and I think now, unfairly) rebuked by the press/public, and is now less interested in writing self-consciously as a Pixie. That being said, Frank has always, or at least going back to the 2000s spoke of song writing as a job involving workman-like craft rather than inspiration (this was something Kim Deal would - I think passive agressively - rebuke in the press when releasing new Breeders records after massive gaps in time). He's also seemed more interested in painting than songwriting for a while now as a creative outlet. Lastly, apart from Pailey (sp?) and Francis, he hasn't released an Americana album since 2005 - he was writing in the Black Francis voice well before the reunion of the Pixies. He did seem to think that he could scratch the country itch, should he want to, with the solo-album, but maybe feels reinvigorated by the development that the Pixies welcome that type of songwriting from him, and that he now doesn't have to think of his songwriting as an either-or (Americana or indie/alternative). Again, this is all conjecture. I'm sympathetic to a lot of what you wrote, just thought I'd test a counter-narrative.

By the way, would anyone slip the non-album singles into that list of 15? i.e., Hear Me Out, or Human Crime? Not sure if I would. Maybe Pagan Man for Human Crime, but maybe not. I prefer the music of Hear Me Out (like it quite a bit) but feel too let down by the blandness of the lyrics to include it.
Troubles A Foot Posted - 11/30/2022 : 12:18:40
Wait I have more to say. Two points:

1) I think the act of posting on an internet forum can maybe exaggerate things. Like I enjoy listening to Doggerel. I listened to it a lot. I don't hate it or anything. I think posting about it here and focusing on my issues with it may come across more negative than I'm intending, and I feel kind of bad about that.

2) I keep asking myself why do I love Frank Black & the Catholics, which is some of Frank's most straightforward songwriting, but when a Pixies album has that style it just turns me off. I think a big part of it is the production. The sound of those Catholics albums just feel very honest and down to earth and so Frank singing about having a broken heart or what have you, it just deeply affects me. But the Dalgety super polished sound of these Pixies albums...and the strange juxtaposition of this band of Pixies arranging Frank's current style of songwriting...something about it feels very hard to wrap my brain around (but isn't that what Pixies should be???)

Like something about Dave doing his Pixies beats under these songs, Joey doing his thing (and he's incredibly versatile in the way he fits in with all these songs), and Paz's Kim Deal-type bass, etc...I just keep questioning is this the right way to bring these songs to life? From Frank's interviews lately it genuinely seems like he doesn't have a lot of creative interest in the Pixies as a band or any motivation to make them as great as they could be. He keeps alluding it to being like a job, he keeps saying he doesn't really care what songs are on the albums, how they are arranged, how he considered giving up music, etc. He seemed more inspired when he's doing more his own thing, and the fact that he was actually working on a solo country album which seems to now be abandoned was incredibly sad and telling to me. Like he has this inner Frank Black &TC voice that wants to come out but he's got to be a Pixie, something he escaped decades ago. I may be projecting but this just keeps being reenforced by every interview of his that I read. Frank always says he's the snake and likes to constantly be moving and it seems the Pixies rotation he's in doesn't seem to allow that. He always makes a point of saying, possibly from self awareness, how grateful he is that this is his job. So I don't think it's a clear issue for him, but that there's a conflict..."I get to make money off of music...but is it the music I want to be making? Do I have a right to complain?"

Please take all with grain of salt!
Troubles A Foot Posted - 11/30/2022 : 11:54:10
quote:
Originally posted by Sprite

quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

This is what mine would be, I guess, BTE and Dog. No demos, etc. Of course if we were including the BTE demos that would be a very different story. It looks like BTE has the bulk of the songs here. In my opinion though, still not a "great" album...more like "solid." But Pixies 1.0...it wouldn't work with that band.


In the Arms of Mrs. Mark of Cain
On Graveyard Hill
Catfish Kate
This Is My Fate
Silver Bullet
Los Surfers Muertos
Bird of Prey
Daniel Boone
Death Horizon
Nomatterday
Dregs of the Wine
Get Simulated
Thunder and Lightning
Pagan Man
Doggerel




Hey Trouble, if you asked me to bet in advance how many Doggerel songs would make it to your list I would have guessed maybe 2 at most. Are you warming a bit more to the album now?

I need to think a bit before posting my top 15. I am still in a Doggerel haze right now..




Hmm, not really...I just really dislike Long Rider...I really like Dregs of the Wine and Get Simulated, which to me are top tier. The rest I can sadly take or leave. Thunder and Lightning got in my head really bad and I'm not sure if that makes the song GOOD but it's something...like I don't think I'd put it on a favorites playlist or anything. I just want more weirdness and surprises. Now that I look at my choices, I may take off NoMatterDay and Doggerel, as those songs kind of lost their luster pretty fast for me. Doggerel's chorus really hurts the uniqueness of the song, and NoMatterDay just doesn't feel very inspired to me.
Sprite Posted - 11/29/2022 : 22:34:02
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

This is what mine would be, I guess, BTE and Dog. No demos, etc. Of course if we were including the BTE demos that would be a very different story. It looks like BTE has the bulk of the songs here. In my opinion though, still not a "great" album...more like "solid." But Pixies 1.0...it wouldn't work with that band.


In the Arms of Mrs. Mark of Cain
On Graveyard Hill
Catfish Kate
This Is My Fate
Silver Bullet
Los Surfers Muertos
Bird of Prey
Daniel Boone
Death Horizon
Nomatterday
Dregs of the Wine
Get Simulated
Thunder and Lightning
Pagan Man
Doggerel




Hey Trouble, if you asked me to bet in advance how many Doggerel songs would make it to your list I would have guessed maybe 2 at most. Are you warming a bit more to the album now?

I need to think a bit before posting my top 15. I am still in a Doggerel haze right now..
Troubles A Foot Posted - 11/29/2022 : 16:40:48
I almost replaced Pagan Man with Who's More Sorry Now. It was neck and neck at the last moment. I like both songs enough, but I think Pagan Man is just slightly more interesting, and...it's just kind of cute and appealing and catchy?

I am always in favor of MORE SONGS so I am glad nothing like this actually happened, and I still really wish we could hear so many of these reject songs that didn't make it...I wish I understood why it had to be only 12 songs on an album. How about like...14 or 15...? To me, these albums feel a bit short.
Brank_Flack Posted - 11/29/2022 : 07:29:35
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

This is what mine would be, I guess, BTE and Dog. No demos, etc. Of course if we were including the BTE demos that would be a very different story. It looks like BTE has the bulk of the songs here. In my opinion though, still not a "great" album...more like "solid." But Pixies 1.0...it wouldn't work with that band.


In the Arms of Mrs. Mark of Cain
On Graveyard Hill
Catfish Kate
This Is My Fate
Silver Bullet
Los Surfers Muertos
Bird of Prey
Daniel Boone
Death Horizon
Nomatterday
Dregs of the Wine
Get Simulated
Thunder and Lightning
Pagan Man
Doggerel




This song choice seems right to me. Only qualm is that I * might * sub Pagan Man, probably for Haunted House.

Otherwise, I agree that you could make an excellent album - not Doolittle or Bossanova album, but given that Doolittle might be one of the greatest 5 or so rock albums of all time, that's not a slight.

That being said, I'm very happy with both BTE and Doggerel as they stand. Are they better than Surfer Rosa? No, but they're more where I'm at in life.
billgoodman Posted - 11/29/2022 : 00:11:35
I think BTE is as good as one could expect for a band of their age. Love that record. And the podcast.

Doggerel is just good. Like Head Carrier.

You can make an amazing Pixies 2.0 playlist that's for sure.

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
tamefan Posted - 11/28/2022 : 20:03:41
To clarify my question, by "as strong as" I mean it generally as "equally meritorious" not "equally good at replicating 1.0. conventions." We should allow for the fact that bands/artists evolve over time and become interested in creating different styles of music. In other words, the 15 tracks from BTE and Dog might fail to satisfy what you expect from a Pixies 1.0. album, yet on its own merits those 15 tracks might be equally enjoyable or praiseworthy, for reasons similar or dissimilar to the 1.0. albums.

I made this playlist and think it's a really impressive set of songs. The mix/master is similar across both records and they also share some similar themes & motifs (drinking, ghosts, sorrow, etc), so the tracks mesh quite well together:

  • Nomatterday
  • On Graveyard Hill
  • Dregs of the Wine
  • Long Rider
  • Catfish Kate
  • Haunted House
  • Bird of Prey
  • Who's More Sorry Now?
  • This is My Fate
  • Doggerel
  • Silver Bullet
  • Thunder and Lightning
  • Daniel Boone
  • Get Simulated
  • In the Arms of Mr. and Mrs. Cain


If Pixies had released these 15 tracks as one album, instead of split between BTE and Doggerel, I think we would all have built little shrines to the glory of these 15 tracks in our closets so that we could pray to it every night before bed. Just my hunch.
pot Posted - 11/28/2022 : 13:47:35
I think a better question would be if each Pixies 1.0 album was two 2.0 albums compressed down - what would the filler sound like? It would be like 8 new hypothetical Pixies 2.0 - which means roughly 4 new Pixies 2.0 of just the deleted filler! Maybe there's an AI program that can recreate that for us
Troubles A Foot Posted - 11/28/2022 : 11:49:44
This is what mine would be, I guess, BTE and Dog. No demos, etc. Of course if we were including the BTE demos that would be a very different story. It looks like BTE has the bulk of the songs here. In my opinion though, still not a "great" album...more like "solid." But Pixies 1.0...it wouldn't work with that band.


In the Arms of Mrs. Mark of Cain
On Graveyard Hill
Catfish Kate
This Is My Fate
Silver Bullet
Los Surfers Muertos
Bird of Prey
Daniel Boone
Death Horizon
Nomatterday
Dregs of the Wine
Get Simulated
Thunder and Lightning
Pagan Man
Doggerel
billgoodman Posted - 11/28/2022 : 08:34:11
quote:
Originally posted by tamefan

If you guys took the best 15 tracks from BTE and Dog, do you think they'd be as strong as a Pixies 1.0. album?



No, but very close

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
Troubles A Foot Posted - 11/28/2022 : 08:04:01
It would be A strong album, but it wouldn't have the shock, horror, surrealism and surprise of Pixies 1.0, so it may as well be a different band. So it's not really a clear question to answer.
tamefan Posted - 11/28/2022 : 02:11:35
If you guys took the best 15 tracks from BTE and Dog, do you think they'd be as strong as a Pixies 1.0. album?
billgoodman Posted - 11/22/2022 : 00:12:27
quote:
Originally posted by Stevio10

Breeders play Gigantic with Dave Grohl

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/the-breeders-play-pixies-song-gigantic-with-dave-grohl/



Not as good as Pixies with Paz though

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
pot Posted - 11/19/2022 : 12:28:49
quote:
Originally posted by Stevio10

Breeders play Gigantic with Dave Grohl

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/the-breeders-play-pixies-song-gigantic-with-dave-grohl/



I could huv went to see Nirvana play the QM in 91/2 with The Breeders as support

But I didnae
Stevio10 Posted - 11/19/2022 : 11:39:14
Breeders play Gigantic with Dave Grohl

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/the-breeders-play-pixies-song-gigantic-with-dave-grohl/
Discoking Posted - 11/12/2022 : 11:25:41
and they covered wave of mutilation (uk surf) the night before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgwfHNiLY80


it's educational
tamefan Posted - 11/12/2022 : 10:24:33
Arcade Fire covered Debaser the other night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7Q9KwU4xME
Stevio10 Posted - 10/22/2022 : 01:16:32
David J (of Bauhaus and Love & Rockets) did a song featuring BF called Tiny Gun, wasn't aware of it and stumbled on it - quite funny!

Link to it for spotify

https://open.spotify.com/track/0W4hV6d7Du2O85Eclh0Exf?si=VWWQb9ivQDyi729GgTL0kA&utm_source=copy-link
pot Posted - 09/20/2022 : 11:52:14
Doggerel schmoggerel
pot Posted - 08/10/2022 : 12:29:44
There's a moon on
pot Posted - 07/07/2022 : 11:18:37
Right - you see Barry from Eastenders in a lot of people? Personally I think the Future islands guy always reminds me of Greg Hemphill, the Scottish comedy actor best know for Still Game/Jack & Victor
The Maharal Posted - 07/07/2022 : 10:19:36
Might have been me, possibly. Though usually the Future Islands guy is what makes me think of Barry.
pot Posted - 07/06/2022 : 13:13:49
Don't remember saying or thinking he looked like BArry from eastos, no
Stevio10 Posted - 07/06/2022 : 10:51:24
Ha I see where you're coming from, it's hard to pinpoint exactly how but I see it. Strangely, during the Head Carrier period I saw a resemblance to captain Manwaring from Dad's Army. Then didn't you say he looked like Barry from Eastenders from BTE period? Jesus that's like a Dr Who level of incarnation right there! Apologies BF, you don't look anything like them!
pot Posted - 07/05/2022 : 20:28:13
I love Jo Brand too - not that much but I think she carries a certain carefree deadpan through her persona which I'm fond of. I love them both, both Charles and Jo equally, but not in a weird way. I'm not "woke" but I am in no way against anyone experimenting and expressing themselves in the context of the opposite gender they were born into. Hermaphraditos is my name
The Maharal Posted - 07/05/2022 : 10:04:32
Ha yeah maybe there's a slight resemblance there. He lost a lot of weight alright - hopefully he's not ill.

-= Frank Black Forum =- © 2002-2020 Frank Black Fans, Inc. Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000