| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| darwin |
Posted - 07/16/2004 : 18:10:45
Since one of our resident conservatives was agast that Edwards claimed he was speaking for a dead child, I wondered what they thought of Bush's claim. One was doing it to dramatize a case; the other is doing it to claim moral authority. Which is worse?
"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job."
-- President Bush, quoted in the Lancaster New Era, during a private meeting with an Amish group.
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2004/07/16/quote_of_the_day.html |
| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dave Noisy |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 17:07:08
Interesting talks here.. I'll admit Kerry isn't considerably better than Bush...he's got his problems too. Spudboy summed it up pretty well - it's a binary system, and as long as it's a binary system it'll be the lesser of two evils.
Vote for electoral reform! For a country that preaches democracy and freedom, it's amazing to see this horrible electoral process...
 Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
| VoVat |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 20:33:43
Like you have room to talk, Tre! Your sig is just BEGGING to start a debate on whether Frank is a rodent-eater!
As for bashing the President, isn't that ALWAYS in vogue, no matter who's in office? And I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, since dissent is a large part of what this country is all about.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
| n/a |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 11:39:28
darwin has a point! You should prolly look into the sig carriers sanity too, check what asylum that one broke free from...
( )
Frank Black ate my Hamster
|
| darwin |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 11:35:52
quote:
Originally posted by TOTIPOTENT
How does his sig create a political debate?
You really don't understand that when someone says "Vote Bush in 2004" that that is a political statement and thus initiates a political debate? And, it's then disingenuous to claim that you're not trying to cause a debate. |
| TOTIPOTENT |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 10:41:47
quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
You can vote multiple times for American Idol, though.
...and you don't have to register...then go play jury...
quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
But if Jason is six, is Bush seven?
Very funny!
quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
Then how did he have his two daughters, Drinky-Drinky and Boozella, huh?
Hilarious! Holly shit VoVat, you are very quotable!
To Jefery and Dallas, thank you. To quote Jefery, I too "simply entered this topic to help show that there is support for Bush, that not everybody thinks he's a moron, and that it's okay to support your president even if Michael Moore and Barbra Streisand have made Bush-bashing the in-thing."
quote:
Originally posted by darwin
I'm not here to get involved in a major political debate.
Then why the sig?
How does his sig create a political debate?
 "I joined the Cult of Frank / then it disbanded in 2004"  |
| VoVat |
Posted - 07/22/2004 : 22:43:53
You can vote multiple times for American Idol, though.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
| astrology |
Posted - 07/22/2004 : 18:16:07
dear martha,
i think you are right, here in Spain,PMs come from adifferent background, in fact i live in teh neighbohood where PM Felipe Gonzalez grew and it is a working class area, so they know first hand what reality is.
but you are not goign to leave the empier in a slave
hands, right
If god speaks thru W, lets crown him ELVIS
true blue
Even when I walk through a dark valley, I fear no harm
nur al din/nur al djinn, depending on... |
| martha_promise |
Posted - 07/22/2004 : 17:38:35
Very well put SpudBoy.
So is it a decision of the lesser of two evils, or more of the same? I'ts probably a hopeless endeavor. (They're all blue-bloods) It seems to me, that the apathy is pretty wide spread (when more people vote for American Idol than in the primary election) throughout western civilization. Maybe I just need to meet some different folk, because it seems a rarity when anybody wants to discuss politics outside of a few friends and family members.
Was it Thomas Jefferson who said that for a democratic republic to survive it's imperative for people to give a fuck? Is it the "powers that be" or is it the "masses that lull"?
Either way it pisses me off.
~~I love the north part, I love your marble ear~~ |
| VoVat |
Posted - 07/22/2004 : 17:10:09
As for abortion, I'm definitely pro-choice, but I can sympathize with the pro-life position. It's kind of a complicated issue, I suppose.
And the Moon? I think God wants him to put a big laser up there and destroy the Middle East, like in Austin Powers 2.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
| SpudBoy |
Posted - 07/21/2004 : 21:12:02
What I find the most disturbing is the ready affiliation with the "Right" and "Left".
If you read your Funk & Wagnall's, you'll see they used to be the Democratic-Republican party, and divided over the election of John Quincy Adams in 1824. 36 years later, the Republicans took the national stage with the election of Lincoln. This pretty much was the death knell for the Whig party, and then the Democrats and Republicans managed to implement their 6-degrees-apart agendas, and still do today. It's a monopoly, folks. The "issues" are largely a ruse - some legitimate, but mostly not.
Any time someone can polarize a population into 2 distinct factions, they are in control of the whole crowd. Binary decisions don't take a lot of thought, or allow for the finesse required to operate in th grey areas of really real reality. We have begun to feed solely off of sound bites. Beware your own allegiance, whichever side you are on.
*festoon* |
| Monsieur |
Posted - 07/21/2004 : 11:34:53
Not to mention Monica Lewinsky...
You can't imagine how impossible it would be for such an affair to occur in France. Here, a president who doesn't have a mistress would be accused of being a pussy! |
| darwin |
Posted - 07/21/2004 : 11:30:35
quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
OK Darwin you have earned your stripes as a soldier of the LEFT!
All ends justify the means of GETTING Bush.
And the RIGHT always took the the high civilized road when opposing Clinton. Haven't yet accused Bush of murdering his friend since boyhood (e.g. Clinton and Vince Foster).
I don't think Edwars rhetorical methods in the courtroom are a large issue, but I do hope that the Republicans spend the next 3.5 months trying to make it one. |
| Dallas |
Posted - 07/21/2004 : 08:39:28
I cant get over the self rightousness and inflated sense of self I see in these posts. How GODLIKE Gypsydeath and KSR must be that they themselves can predetermine everyone's life and be so sure that they feel OK snuffing out a budding life.
Sure, death is great, yet, no one here stepping forward themselves. Its a great idea for others, when you can tell they wont be happy.
How can anyone think that way? Think of all the great humans who have come from nothing. Orphans who have come from nothing to be great, productive human beings. Or maybe they just become people who pursue their own happiness.
It also looks like the death of someone else in this scenario is justified by the inadequacies of the living. Nothing wrong with the baby to assume it can/cannot flourish. But, you know, Mom just doesnt have room on her plate to nourish a young life. She also doesnt have the ethic to get that young life to someone/someplace who will nourish it.
Just more of the disposable culture many people call home... |
| TheCroutonFuton |
Posted - 07/21/2004 : 08:14:57
I can respect that a woman wants to have that choice, you know...But I mean...the baby isn't always going to grow up in hell. There are a lot of couples who can't have children because of different reasons...I'm pretty sure the adoption rate is somewhat up. I don't know...I'd feel horrible if I ever had to go through that. I'd feel as if I neglected someone the chance of ever living a life...
Although, I can totally understand a woman who was raped and got pregnant. 100%. But I mean, if the woman weren't raped then it's not the (unborn) baby's fault that it's there, you know what I mean? I don't know. There are some good arguments for both sides, I think. Very tough decision for anyone, though, I'm sure.
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
| GypsyDeath |
Posted - 07/21/2004 : 08:10:32
quote:
Originally posted by KimStanleyRobinson
quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
"Being neglected is worse than being killed. Its stays with you forever"
oh my...
Dude, dig it:
Dead child = sorrow, mourning, etc, but people move on.
Neglected, living child = eventually (maybe) a member of society that will likely lash out, continue cycle of neglect, violence, abuse, etc.
I'm not saying fascism is the way to go, but a child that is murdered in an abusive home is free from the hell. A child that lives through it without resolution or help continues the cycle.
This is what she meant. Its an ugly subject.
History tailgates.
Thank you, for explaining that.
Stupid me thought that would have been simple to follow, but according to dallas, not.
I could go on and on and on and on and on about this subject, but I will not, because I will get angry.
people should get over this big idea that death is this horrid evil thing...Its part of life, and youve heard the phrase 'put it out of its misery'...sometimes, a lot of the time thats the best way.
Just thought I'd throw that in there... |
| Dallas |
Posted - 07/21/2004 : 08:02:53
OK Darwin you have earned your stripes as a soldier of the LEFT!
All ends justify the means of GETTING Bush. You make my point that there is no defending a low life like Edwards. The only defense is attacking GWB.
If Edwards actions were defensible, you would have defended them by now. But its impossible to defend an ambulance chaser who claims to communicate with dead babies. |
| darwin |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 23:34:18
quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
Its wrong that somehow the defense of Edwards trial history from his supporters boils down to some attack on GBush. Defend his actions on its merit if you want to, but, Bush had nothing to do with it.
My response was pertinent. You didn't like Edwards claim that a dead baby was speaking through him, while your man was claiming that God was speaking through him. I find Bush's claim much more disturbing, because he probably believes it and lets it guide his decisions. |
| Dallas |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 22:08:13
I'm going to get off your back Darwin. You havent seen me out here bashing kerry. I just cant stand the brand of human that Edwards is. He is the type of lawyer who is willing to break individuals and raise the cost of healthcare on the rest of us just so that he can personally profit. And its all in the public record. I think the guy should be held accountable for it.
Suits against Doctors for genetic defects are dangerous. Edwards and literally just a few other scumbag lawyers pursued this bogus tact and literally affected the cost of healthcare and the number of unnecessary surgeries for everyone else. Thats wrong.
Its wrong that somehow the defense of Edwards trial history from his supporters boils down to some attack on GBush. Defend his actions on its merit if you want to, but, Bush had nothing to do with it. |
| darwin |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 18:11:16
quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
Darwin - lets get this right. Edwards didnt say the girl was just talking to him. He is carrying the girl around "inside" himself. That is what makes talking to her and for her so much easier. No need to phone or anything. He carries the girl "inside", especially during trial.
Not speaking 'for the dead child' as you posted (honest mistake I'm sure). Lets read it again, shall we?
"I feel her presence. She's inside me, and she's talking to you."
That is from the court transcript as reported in the right-wing NY Times.
And the jurors thought "Oh my God the child is inside him. It's not him speaking, it the child!" Is this you first experience with methods of persuasion? |
| Minky303 |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 15:02:23
quote:
Originally posted by Daisy Girl
GWB announced today he wants to send a mission to the moon. Did "God" tell him to do this?
Maybe he could build a texas-style ranch and vacation there more frequently |
| KimStanleyRobinson |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 14:34:58
quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
"Being neglected is worse than being killed. Its stays with you forever"
oh my...
Dude, dig it:
Dead child = sorrow, mourning, etc, but people move on.
Neglected, living child = eventually (maybe) a member of society that will likely lash out, continue cycle of neglect, violence, abuse, etc.
I'm not saying fascism is the way to go, but a child that is murdered in an abusive home is free from the hell. A child that lives through it without resolution or help continues the cycle.
This is what she meant. Its an ugly subject.
History tailgates. |
| Dallas |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 13:48:54
Darwin - lets get this right. Edwards didnt say the girl was just talking to him. He is carrying the girl around "inside" himself. That is what makes talking to her and for her so much easier. No need to phone or anything. He carries the girl "inside", especially during trial.
Not speaking 'for the dead child' as you posted (honest mistake I'm sure). Lets read it again, shall we?
"I feel her presence. She's inside me, and she's talking to you."
That is from the court transcript as reported in the right-wing NY Times. |
| Daisy Girl |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 13:44:04
GWB announced today he wants to send a mission to the moon. Did "God" tell him to do this? |
| Daisy Girl |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 13:42:52
GWB is now saying today that he wants to send a mission to the moon. Did "God" tell him to do this? |
| Daisy Girl |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 13:42:16
GWB is now saying today that he wants to send a mission to the moon. Did "God" tell him to do this? |
| Dallas |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 13:37:41
"Being neglected is worse than being killed. Its stays with you forever"
oh my... |
| Minky303 |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 13:28:53
quote:
Originally posted by realmeanmotorscutor
quote:
Originally posted by Minky303
A moment to consider :
Bush to the 71 year-old President of Brazil (Fernando Cardoso): "Do you have blacks too?"
I cannot fathom his idiocy (*shakes head sadly at Jeferey*)
Oh please explain this and tell me it isn't a real quote!
It was reported by a German paper called Der Spiegel; and James Carville talked about it on CNN's Crossfire: full text link of that = http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0205/28/cf.00.html
" CARVILLE: Now it's time for a look at those unusual, interesting, and downright shocking stories that you might not find anywhere but in our CROSSFIRE news alert. In case you think we Democrats are too tough on George Bush, I assure you, we usually have good reasons. Listen to this. The German magazine, "Der Spiegel" reports that during last week's European summit, Mr. Bush asked Brazil's president, "Do you have blacks, too?" "Der Spiegel" says National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice had to quickly explain that Brazil probably has a larger black population than the U.S., and perhaps the largest black population outside of Africa.
If the question is open, I want to put up a picture of Pele. He's the man on the right, and perhaps the most famous Brazilian of all time, at one time the most famous human on the planet. He sure looks black to me. Well, maybe he's been in the sun too long. Mr. President, I don't know. "
And if you know German... http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,196865,00.html
Someone who translated it elsewhere said the Brazilian president was "astonished" by Bush's question (big surprise!)
my oh my.
|
| GypsyDeath |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 08:40:25
REGARDING the abortion arguement.
Surely, in a day and age as this, everyone should have the freedom of choice? yes? Well then shouldn't abortions be available to all, and those against them...dont have them....call me stupid, but it seems pretty obvious to me.
I am totally for abortions. I would never bring a child in to this world that I could not provide for, or that i would not love. Not fully. You'd rather there were more and more unwanted, neglected and abused children in the world? Being neglected is worse than being killed. Its stays with you forever.
I would without question have an abortion. id have 10. Because I could not give and love a child to the standards it would desever to be loved. I could not care for it. There is no way I would bring a child in to a world where I can not provide for it.
And to be quite honest, I dotn think I could bring myself to bring a child in to a world as ugly as this.
Just thought I'd throw that in there... |
| astrology |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 08:32:23
dear darwin,
Rev. Moon,er, Messiah Moon, has been very generous
delivering blessings to everyone in Washington, but those in the "in god we trust" way...
pls check relationships bush/rumsfeld/moon
http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/moon.htmlhttp://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/moon.html
Happy day u Empire subjets, you should have fleed to Canada...
true blue
Even when I walk through a dark valley, I fear no harm
nur al din/nur al djinn, depending on... |
| darwin |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 23:20:38
I don't think Bush had anything to do with that Moon coranation (sp?). Some congressmen were there, which is terribly embarrassing, and Moon owns the Washington Times, a rightwing paper, so anything out of that rag should be seen for what it is. |
| astrology |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 21:31:33
If god speaks thru W why does he need to crown Rev.
Moon Messiah?
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/06/290588.shtml
any comments?
true blue
i joined teh Blue oyster Cult
I 've found no pearl
but dig those toxines.... |
| VoVat |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 19:34:07
quote:
You talk about how Democrats support abortion despite not liking it. How, then, can you justify the claim that Bush is opposed to condoms? He (rightly) believes that abstinence is the best choice.
Then how did he have his two daughters, Drinky-Drinky and Boozella, huh?
(Yes, I know you were actually referring to what to do when you DON'T want children. But it's funnier my way. Or is it? Maybe not.)
I get the idea that Bush isn't only dumb, but he's also anti-intellectual. I mean, he purposely mispronounces "nuclear." He WANTS to be seen as dumber than he really is. I think he might be more misguided and power-hungry than anything else, though.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
| Ebb Vicious |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 18:58:22
quote:
Originally posted by Jefery With One F
redneck christian bullshit
let me take a wild stab and say that you would probably call evolution a "theory" or "belief", right?
stupid people shouldn't be allowed to voice their opinions where i might accidentally read them. |
| darwin |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 18:37:20
quote:
Originally posted by Jefery With One F
I'm not here to get involved in a major political debate.
Then why the sig?
quote:
I think that his degrees from Harvard and Yale should also do more to dispel the myth that he's an idiot.
He got into Yale because he's a legacy (his dad and grandfather went there and that still to this day gives you an advantage in getting into Yale) and his GPA there was 2.0 I believe. He may be smart in some ways, but he certainly isn't as smart as most of the US Presidents.
quote:
You also talk about the unjust costs of raising unwanted children. How, then, am I supposed to feel when I'm told that my tax dollars should fund abortions?
Are you an American? Your profile says you're Canadian, and if true then it isn't your tax dollars. Also, I'm not certain US tax dollars fund abortions. Perhaps they do; I'm not sure.
quote:
May peace be with you, and may we have more pleasant conversations elsewhere on this forum.
So, you'll be dropping the sig? |
| Jefery With One F |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 18:02:29
I'm not here to get involved in a major political debate. This is the Frank Black Forum, where I come to interact with fans of Frank Black and the Pixies. We share a love for these bands, and I don't want to alienate or offend anyone here. I'm more than willing to talk politics elsewhere with people I don't care so much about (ie. the rest of the internet).
I will, however, comment when I see a bunch of people saying, "Let's all kick the president because he's dumb and everyone hates him." I'm here to say that not everybody hates Bush. I respect him and hold him in high esteem. I think that his degrees from Harvard and Yale should also do more to dispel the myth that he's an idiot. In reality, he's a smart man who is often poorly-spoken.
As for a debate over abortion, I will also not get too involved here. It's an area in which I'm not willing to budge an inch. I think that the baby's choice must be taken into account in addition to the woman's.
You talk about how Democrats support abortion despite not liking it. How, then, can you justify the claim that Bush is opposed to condoms? He (rightly) believes that abstinence is the best choice. If he was asked directly, however, if he thought condoms were better than unprotected sex, I think he'd definitely agree. From what I understand, he simply sees that promoting condoms could be taken as promoting sexual promiscuity.
You also talk about the unjust costs of raising unwanted children. How, then, am I supposed to feel when I'm told that my tax dollars should fund abortions?
An my final comment on the matter (and in this thread altogether, as I've already stated that I don't want an ongoing argument with a FB forum members leading to lingering bitterness), I believe what Bush was getting at in the comment that started this thread is that he looks to God for help with many decisions and prays for leadership from God. As such, he asks God to act through him as president. He does not think he is God.
With that said, I respect your opinions. I may disagree, but that's life. You disagree with me. You can feel free to reply, but I'm done. I simply entered this topic to help show that there is support for Bush, that not everybody thinks he's a moron, and that it's okay to support your president even if Michael Moore and Barbra Streisand have made Bush-bashing the in-thing. May peace be with you, and may we have more pleasant conversations elsewhere on this forum.
Vote Bush in 2004 |
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