| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| KimStanleyRobinson |
Posted - 04/16/2007 : 11:34:01
NPR says 29 dead, 20 injured.
Anyone close by?
Andy? |
| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| BLT |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 18:13:44
quote:
Originally posted by TRANSMARINE
Does it still stand at only 33?
What, are you trying to settle a wager? |
| TRANSMARINE |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 16:40:43
Does it still stand at only 33?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
-bRIAN |
| Carl |
Posted - 04/20/2007 : 14:19:40
Apparently he was also obsessed with Oldboy. The cover of a paper today showed a photo of him with a gun to his head, and a character from the film in a similar pose. Look's like it's 'ban this sick film' time again. |
| KimStanleyRobinson |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 13:33:11
quote:
Originally posted by Carl
Yeah, good point...and I'm certainly not suggesting that simply having psychological problems makes you a killer.
apropos:
"This is a PR tape of him trying to turn himself into a Quentin Tarantino character"
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/VATech/story?id=3056168&page=1
im old and boring and hate stuff |
| kathryn |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 12:54:12
Thanks. I see, via wikipedia, that his mother was a British Quaker, ergo his "radical" views.
I got some heaven in my head
|
| Newo |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 11:32:45
quote:
kathryn Posted - 04/19/2007 : 10:59:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Newo
the king of Belgium wiped out 10 million Africans in the Congo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pls. expand. do you mean over the decades as part of colonizing that area?
it was in the last twenty years of Leopold's life. He had been handed the Congo as his own personal fiefdom no-questions-asked at the Berlin Conference and the exterminating was mostly in the way of plundering all the ivory and rubber to be had.
p.s. check out Edmund Morel, a fellow who used to work in Belgium for a British shipping line and wrote all about the business.
Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs. |
| kathryn |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 10:59:11
quote:
Originally posted by Newo
the king of Belgium wiped out 10 million Africans in the Congo
pls. expand. do you mean over the decades as part of colonizing that area?
I got some heaven in my head
|
| Carl |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 08:28:43
Yeah, good point...and I'm certainly not suggesting that simply having psychological problems makes you a killer. |
| BLT |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 08:18:02
How about the incompetence of the institutions that treated him?
 "Join the Cult of Bluto and become an abusive prick" |
| Carl |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 07:15:39
The details that have emerged over the last day or so are kind of creepy. He had a history of mental illness and erratic behaviour, and had been institutionalised. Also, collegues and roommates found him to be a particularly belligerent individual. here are aslo questions of police incompetance. |
| Newo |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 05:06:49
or just a criminal.
--
Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs. |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 04:54:42
When I see news stories like this, the first thing I think of is the killer. Why they did it etc. I don't know what that says about me. Perhaps I should be a criminal psychologist.
 I'd walk her everyday, into a shady place
|
| cassandra is |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 01:41:00
depressing, indeed, and that's the world we live in
pas de bras pas de chocolat |
| floop |
Posted - 04/19/2007 : 00:10:26
this whole thing is just plain depressing |
| awestruck |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 15:36:25
I have been thinking about this further today. I do not want what I wrote earlier to be misunderstood. I do think what happened at VT is important, depressing and horrific.
So...I just really find it depressing and disrespectful to the victims that the media and PEOPLE in general get so "entertained" (for lack of a better word at the moment)by the horrific images and facts. I think it is disrespectful that news stations are scrambling to find anyone who knows anyone who may know someone who attends there or attended there 10 years ago. I think it is appalling that there are crimes everywhere all the time and people do not know about these crimes or they don't want to know what is going on.
The media keeps saying this is the worst shooting in US history. This is not true. This is the worst shooting of its TYPE in the US. There were plenty of other massacres is US history.
In Florida there was the Rosewood Massacre. There is a movie (Rosewood). It happened in the early 1900's and 26-150 died. In the movie,this happened because a white woman accused a black man of rape. Of course the white woman lied about the whole thing to keep her husband from finding out the truth about her affair she was having. I am going to try and find out if this is the truth behind what truly happened or if it is just a part of the movie. I do know for sure that it was a racist issue.
Tulsa Race Riot in 1921, (another race issue) left 39-300 dead.
The only thing I can figure out about the difference in the total number of dead in these cases is because of record keeping in the early 1900's.
I am sure there have been large killings going on in America today. There are gang wars with drive-bys that kill innocent bystanders, but we do not hear about these sorts of things. Why?
Well, Society does not want to see things that upset our pretty little existence. This is why most people do not want to what advertisements dealing with supporting children in Ethiopia. Most do not want to watch the little children who are starving in third world countries, because it makes society uncomfortable.
This is not saying what happened VT is comfortable. It most certainly is not comfortable to watch coverage over what happened. I guess I just feel sad for all the dead in the world that don't receive the same attention that VT victims receive.
Favorite Quote: awestruck is a she, she's a she. -trobrianders |
| KimStanleyRobinson |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 13:44:00
I want the letter.
anyone seen news of it anywhere?
i guess we can assume it is evidence and will be locked down for a while. |
| Carl |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 12:41:43
Yeah, like today with papers splashing big pictures of 'the face of killer' all over their front pages. |
| darwin |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 09:24:44
News organizations like CNN are a business (but I do believe it is not that simple, journalism does have a civic duty and should be protected from government interference) and their business is trying to either get you to pay to read/watch their material or have enough viewers that advertisers want to place ads. Part of the reason you don't see huge coverage of each bombing in Iraq is that it is no longer interesting. It is the same bombing with many of the same details from the day before. People don't have much reason to read that (again), so it doesn't get much coverage. I know that's all obvious, but in many ways people are complaining about the media while the media (except for a some great exceptions) is just responding to what in their experience readers/viewers want. |
| coastline |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 09:12:19
Heated arguments about gun control, campus security, and the media aside, is anyone else just plain depressed by this massacre? Maybe I'm in a bad place this week, but this one's starting to hit me pretty hard, like some of the other horrible events of the last few years. I was in Wyoming when Matthew Shepard was murdered, and that hurt me to the core. I moved to Denver a couple weeks after that, and then Columbine happened in the spring, and I was again deeply shaken. Two years later it was Sept. 11. Those events are hard to compare, but they all broke my heart and made me feel unsecure about my fellow man. This one is starting to do the same thing.
Maybe I should just be thankful I don't live in Iraq -- I'm sure it's like that every day there. Or maybe you just become desensitized.
 Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
| KimStanleyRobinson |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 08:49:31
the media.
meh.
Journalism should be mandatory curricula in high schools and college.
We're all reporters to a certain degree.
i agree, trans: the psychological makeup of the perpetrator and the path that led him to the act is a body of information that is of much more value than who grieves and how. |
| Cheeseman1000 |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 08:41:38
From the link:
"Car and suicide bombings have occurred almost daily in Baghdad in recent months, despite a US-led security crackdown since February."
So if that was just one suicide bomber per day, that's still more than 33 people.
 Numberwang? |
| misleadtheworld |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 08:33:53
quote:
Originally posted by Cheeseman1000
In fact this popped up just now:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6567329.stm
50+ dead in Baghdad bomb
This is, in fact, a fantastic example. The front of BBC News went into those 'BREAKING NEWS' modes with the 32 deaths on Monday. You know, where the whole page makes way for one story.
150+ people killed today in Baghdad and it's a normal news day.
|
| Newo |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 08:25:22
quote:
awestruck Posted - 04/18/2007 : 05:40:54
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are right about the news, Cheeseman1000. 15 seconds for Baghdad. Nothing for the genocide going on in Africa. It is all about sensationalism. The news and media (Sorry Coastline) reports what people want to hear and what gives them ratings.
it's funny what atrocities we deem newsworthy alright, everyone knows about six million people being exterminated in second world war but not that long beforehand, the king of Belgium wiped out 10 million Africans in the Congo and nobody seems to remember.
--
Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs. |
| BLT |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 08:23:30
quote:
Originally posted by Cheeseman1000
In fact this popped up just now:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6567329.stm
50+ dead in Baghdad bomb
Numberwang?
164 dead as of now. At cnn.com it got one little line at the bottom of the left column. |
| Newo |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 08:17:18
quote:
Jefrey Posted - 04/17/2007 : 17:13:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by coastline
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're sort of right. It's true that there's no law we can pass to prevent this kind of thing, but surely there are things a society can do to be more compassionate and decent, which would lead to fewer of these events. It starts at the personal level: Let this be a reminder to be a more decent person in all aspects of your life. Sounds hokey, but it's probably more effective than changing gun laws.
Sing it. Gun control does little but monopolise who gets to keep the guns and would be of as much use in curbing someone's impulse to harm another person as an ice-cream sundae. Which is why Hitler, Stalin and Mao were so in favour of gun control. I feel gentleness towards everybody else would be the only way to live in a more gentle society. And that includes no silent disdain for people either, which is where the rot really starts in.
--
Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs. |
| Carl |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 07:50:02
It's strange how you just become desensitised to the news of the regular death and devastation in Iraq. It's pretty much just accepted. |
| Cheeseman1000 |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 06:27:30
In fact this popped up just now:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6567329.stm
50+ dead in Baghdad bomb
Numberwang? |
| awestruck |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 05:40:54
You are right about the news, Cheeseman1000. 15 seconds for Baghdad. Nothing for the genocide going on in Africa. It is all about sensationalism. The news and media (Sorry Coastline) reports what people want to hear and what gives them ratings. And I am sure that reporters and others in the media are sometimes pushed to cover stories they don't want. I may be wrong about this.
Favorite Quote: awestruck is a she, she's a she. -trobrianders |
| vilainde |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 05:34:49
That's 15 seconds every day for 4 years now. That makes a total of 6 hours.
Denis
"Can you hear me? I aint got shit to say." |
| Cheeseman1000 |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 05:21:55
quote:
Originally posted by awestruck
"what should ofs"
"What should haves"
Second BLT's point: if you're reading the newspaper and you come across a story of a bomb in Baghdad killing thirty people, what do you do? Do you skip the page and read something else? Or do you feel the same pity for these people as you do for the VA Tech dead? I know I'm certainly guilty of flicking past these things to avoid thinking about them.
A follow-on point can be made re the media though: if I want to watch the news, even on the comparatively fair and impartial BBC, I'm going to get a full quarter of an hour on these shootings, but maybe 15 seconds on Baghdad. Why is this? Anyone?
Numberwang? |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 04/18/2007 : 05:04:24
quote:
Originally posted by mrgrieves1971
Unfortunately, in a free society, there is really not much you can do to prevent this.
Then why does it happen so much more in some countries than others? Coincidence? I think not.
I don't have the answers, but something can clearly be done to help, if not totally prevent.
I'd walk her everyday, into a shady place
|
| Jefrey |
Posted - 04/17/2007 : 23:39:49
quote:
Originally posted by Little Black Francis
The media is corrupt to the core, but they don't shove shit down your throat, you open up your mouth and swallow.
Mijn vriendin kan geen orgasme krijgen
Actually they do kind of shove it down your throat, but I hear what you're saying.
I went to watch the Sharks vs Predators NHL playoff game last night, you know, as an escape - an alternative to all the media scrambling to cover the bloodbath and broadcast people screaming as they're shot as many times as possible. Fine, I can change the channel.
But the hockey game started with us observing a moment of silence for the VA Tech massacre. It was almost infuriating and had the opposite effect. As if we're some kind of assholes for wanting to just watch a sporting event that has nothing to do with this kid killing all those people.
They did the same thing with baseball after 9/11, and still do kind of (the 7th inning stretch now always includes "God Bless America" ever since 9/11). But it seemed to go on for months afterwards with these moments of silence at sporting events. Not only is it a downer, but what does one have to do with the other?
I realize it's not technically "the media", but it certainly is ramming it down our throats. What are we supposed to do, hide in a closet.
I swear to god after 9/11, I had to observe 6 moments of silence that day! One was in a fucking Safeway! At some point it just becomes irritating.
I can totally see where TRANSAMERICA is coming from. There are thousands of murders and deaths happening every day, and they are not reported. We don't know any of those people in most cases. Pf course it's horrifying, but why should we care any more than the thounsands of other people we don't know who were murdered around the world?
OK, damn - now this is getting depressing. We should abandon this thread and go back to the beautiful music. Talking about the shittiness of the world always just ends up with people being mad at each other.
== jeffamerica == |
| danjersey |
Posted - 04/17/2007 : 22:42:34
In the 33 years I've been alive the number of murders commited that I have been made aware of through state and world wide news is incalculable. Photographs of people are shown not just victims. Pictures taken on a better day that their family then released for us to see 'this was my love alive'.
I'd rather not give space to the killers but they are part of this sick feeling I'm left with.
It was a damn ugly day and though others will come none will be forgotten.
|
| darwin |
Posted - 04/17/2007 : 22:35:51
I want to go back to the notion that the system failed the kid ("the shooter") or he fell through the cracks. I think in many of these cases in hindsight it seems like more should have been done, but frankly there's many people out there appear to be off (or not to be totally trusted). But in reality some of those people are fine (they just choose to do it their way), some are in a phase that they eventually grow out (particularly college students), and others are odd but harmless. The "system" can't be expected to identify and "treat" all of the future killers. To do that, to treat them all would mean pushing many people who in the end are fine into counseling and treatment that they don't need. There's a price of trying to not miss the one bad apple. The US response to terrorism seems like obvious example of this to me.
So, I think it's unrealistic to think the system can ever work if the criteria for saying it works is no failures. Or maybe we shouldn't want to pay the cost of what it would take for the system to never fail (such as forced counseling whenever there is whiff of a problem). |
| BLT |
Posted - 04/17/2007 : 22:09:21
quote:
Originally posted by Little Black Francis
The media is corrupt to the core, but they don't shove shit down your throat, you open up your mouth and swallow. Why you only choose to complain about media when there is a massacre, that makes you a total hypocrite and that's your problem. I feel sorry for anyone ed. that thinks that way, and the rest of humanity that shares that prespective.
I feel compassion for senseless loss of life. Whether it's caused by nature, genocide, war, starvation, disease, or a fucking kid with a gun opening fire in an open environment in a free society, the very same place where you type and read on the interent. If that doesn't awaken your mind and appreciate where you are this moment in time, what's the point of living. Are we all nihlists now?
Mijn vriendin kan geen orgasme krijgen
How is my thinking people should put their personal agendas on hold for a little while until the dust settles make me a hypocrite? I've already closed my mouth and turned off the TV. Or am I supposed to watch CNN non-stop until I'm a vegetable? Is that what I'm obliged to do?
I know how to appreciate my life and where I am now. Over the past four years I've been dealing with specific problems that make me appreciate every fucking time I am still able to leave my house and get on my bike or step foot on a mountain trail.
"Join the Cult of Bluto and become an abusive prick" |
