| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| starmekitten |
Posted - 07/22/2005 : 03:03:41
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm
Man shot by armed police on Tube
A man has been shot at Stockwell Tube station by armed police officers, police confirm.
Passengers were evacuated from a Tube train on the Northern Line station in south London after the incident.
Passenger Mark Whitby told BBC News he had seen an Asian man shot five times by "plain-clothes police officers".
Services on the Victoria and Northern lines have been suspended following a request by the police, London Underground said.
Police are hunting four would-be bombers after Thursday's London blasts.
The bombers fled after detonators went off, causing small blasts, but failed to detonate the bombs themselves.
Mr Whitby, told BBC News: "I saw an Asian guy run onto the train hotly pursued by three plain-clothes police officers.
"One of them was carrying a black handgun - it looked like an automatic - they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him."
Passenger Briony Coetsee said: "We were on the Tube and then we suddenly heard someone say, 'Get out, get out' and then we heard gunshots."
and you're questioning the sciences
and questioning religion
you're looking like an idiot
and you no longer care.
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| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| astrology |
Posted - 08/20/2005 : 11:35:23
this is from xymphora
http://xymphora.blogspot.com/
Murder and lies in London
Given the latest revelations concerning what happened to Jean Charles de Menezes, revelations which show that the police lied about every aspect of the matter, and that Sir Ian Blair himself lied and appeared to attempt to cover up the lying by preventing an inquiry, it goes without saying that:
Sir Ian Blair has to resign, or be fired. He either said things he knew to be untrue or passed on such lies by subordinates who had so little respect for him that they didn't care if he lied or not. In either case he has no place running a police department. The cover up of the lying just makes things worse.
There has to be a full-fledged public inquiry.
All the officers involved have to be tried for manslaughter, including those who ordered the execution, and attention ought to be paid to whether Sir Ian Blair should be charged with obstruction of justice.
The 'shoot to kill' policy should be as dead as Jean Charles de Menezes.
All these things are obvious, but I think it is important to stifle the even more important danger that the British military is attempting to import the dirty war in Northern Ireland into London. From an article by Michael Smith (him again!):
"Press photographs of members of the armed response team taken in the immediate aftermath of the killing show at least one man carrying a special forces weapon that is not issued to SO19, the Metropolitan police firearms unit.
The man, wearing civilian clothes with a blue cap marked 'Police', was carrying a specially modified Heckler & Koch G3K rifle with a shortened barrel and a butt from a PSG-1 sniper rifle fitted to it — a combination used by the SAS.
Another man, dressed in a T-shirt, jeans and trainers, was carrying a Heckler & Koch G36C. Although this weapon is used on occasion by SO19 it appears to be fitted with a target illuminator purchased as an 'urgent operational requirement' for UK special forces involved in the war on terror."
Although the official position is that the SAS was only involved in surveillance, and the London police did the shooting, it is impossible to believe anything they say anymore, and more and more evidence points to this being a full-fledged military operation. Smith goes on (my emphasis in bold):
"The use of multiple shots to the head is the modus operandi of the special forces, whether from the SAS, the SBS or the undercover intelligence operators used in the Stockwell operation. Over the past 30 years the SAS has developed a reputation for never allowing gunmen to remain alive, an attitude shown most graphically during the 1980 Iranian hostages siege and the Gibraltar IRA killings eight years later.
'It is vital to strike fear into the minds of the terrorists,' one former SAS officer said. 'In an ongoing situation such as we have now the fear must be directed to the fact that we are watching them and will eventually (get) them. They need to know that they cannot escape.
'We know they are happy to kill themselves but that doesn't mean they are happy to be killed by others. As long as they evade the police they will think they are in control but the minute they are intercepted they lose control.'"
Despite all the talk about the Israeli 'shoot to kill' policy, the execution of Jean Charles de Menezes appears to be an example of a long-standing British military policy. It was irrelevant to them whether he was a terrorist or not. They decided to pursue him, and literally grabbed him out of the hands of the London police, because they wanted to set an example. The complete ruthlessness with which they acted was meant to show any prospective terrorists that they would not live to be heroes. You simply can't have incompetent military murderers running around in a civilized country. Apart from dealing with this specific problem, the British people have a bigger job to do: keep Britain from becoming infected with the threat of military violence against its own people.
I'm a pistolero, i'm not shakin in my boots
I'm the ruler of this moon, if u move I shoots
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| Carl |
Posted - 08/20/2005 : 07:19:49
Best....post....ever |
| Newo |
Posted - 08/19/2005 : 03:49:15
We shouldn't rush into things. Let's hear what the people who wrestled an innocent man to the ground and emptied seven rounds into his face have to say.
--
Develop interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music -- the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself. |
| Stuart |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 21:20:55
I agree with you, if this new information is true then serious action needs to be taken against those responsible for the killing.
This is a high class bureau de change, not some Punch & Judy show on the seafront at Margate! |
| Zsolt G. |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 19:49:44
Yeah, I love how now that we know that the cops released a completely FALSE statement, nobody gives a shit, because it's old news. How can people swallow this shit. It is disgusting. These pigs are fucking state sanctioned indescriminate murderers and liars on top of it. This kind of coverup needs to be really shown for what it is, propoganda of the worst kind. |
| astrology |
Posted - 08/17/2005 : 03:31:37
08/17/05 "The Times" — -- SCOTLAND YARD made “a series of catastrophic errors” that led to armed officers hunting the July 21 bombers shooting dead an innocent Brazilian electrician, it was claimed last night.
Leaked witness statements from officers who took part in the botched operation reveal that Jean Charles de Menezes was being restrained by a member of the Yard’s surveillance team before being shot eight times as he sat on a Tube train.
The documents and photographs from the Independent Police Complaints Commission investigation also reveal that one of the undercover team meant to identify the electrician was relieving himself as de Menezes left his flat on July 22 so could not tell if they had tracked down one of the alleged bombers, Hussain Osman. The documents suggest that de Menezes could have been taken alive.
Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, will come under pressure to explain how a sophisticated police operation went so badly wrong.
The investigation by ITV News claims that when de Menezes, 27, was challenged by police on the Northern Line train at Stockwell he did not make any aggressive move. Claims by police at the time that the electrician was “behaving erratically” are alleged to be false.
The blunders began as de Menezes emerged from his flat in Tulse Hill in South London at 9.30am.
The undercover officer who was meant to identify anyone leaving the block of flats admitted that he had left his so he could not communicate observations or take video footage.
His advice was “it would be worth someone else having a look” to ensure that they had the right man. No other officer apparently took a picture of him even though de Menezes had to take a bus journey to the station. Even so, Gold Command at Scotland Yard, which was running this operation, declared a “code red” and handed responsibility to CO19 — the firearms team.
The armed team had been given photographs of the alleged bombers yet no one realised that de Menezes bore no resemblance to them.
The investigation report states that the firearms unit of the police had been told that “unusual tactics” might be required and if they “were deployed to intercept a subject and there was an opportunity to challenge, but if the subject was non-compliant, a critical shot may be taken”.
CCTV footage shows that de Menezes was wearing a thin denim jacket so he could not be concealing a bomb, nor was he carrying a bag.
Far from running from police, he did not realise that anyone was following him and even picked up a free newspaper before using his season ticket to pass through the barrier.
He began to run only when he saw his train pull into the station. At the time of the shooting, Scotland Yard said de Menezes’s “clothing and his behaviour at the station added to their suspicions”.
It was only when de Menezes boarded the train that a surveillance officer guided four armed police into the same carriage. A man sitting opposite him is quoted as saying: “Within a few seconds I saw a man coming into the double doors to my left. He was pointing a small, black handgun towards a person sitting opposite me.
“He pointed the gun at the right hand side of the man’s head. The gun was within 12 inches of the man’s head when the first shot was fired.”
The report reveals that a member of the surveillance team grabbed de Menezes before he was shot. “I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side,” a statement says.
“I then pushed him back on to the seat where he had been previously sitting . . . I heard a gunshot very close to my left ear and was dragged away on to the floor of the carriage.”
Photographs showed that de Menezes was shot at virtually point-blank range as he was still in his seat.
Last night Harriet Wistrich, lawyer for the de Menezes family, said there were still “far more questions than answers” about police conduct. Family members called for a full inquiry.
CONTRADICTIONS
Police de Menezes wearing suspicious clothing
Evidence to inquiry Wearing only thin denim jacket
Police Acting suspiciously on way to Stockwell station Evidence to inquiry Nothing odd in his behaviour
Police Challenged at station and refused to obey instructions
Evidence Challenged for first time while seated on train Police de Menezes vaulted ticket barrier to escape
Evidence Did not vault. Ran only to catch train
Police Eight shots fired into him
Evidence Eleven shots fired, three missed
Any questions now?
I'm a pistolero, i'm not shakin in my boots
I'm the ruler of this moon, if u move I shoots
|
| Newo |
Posted - 08/13/2005 : 11:48:04
He obviously wasn't a suicidebomber because they don't run, they blow up. The police were in plain clothes and did not identify themselves which would explain why he exhibited suspicious behaviour, i.e. ran from the strange intimidating men. I felt a little upset a couple weeks ago at the attitude I found in a few people I asked after this fellow was murdered, basically Well we're lucky to live with protectors who are doing such a good job, till I found this:
"To disagree with three-fourths of the British public is one of the first requisites of sanity."
-Oscar Wilde
--
Les cacahuetes c'est le mouvement perpétuel à la portée de l'homme . |
| VoVat |
Posted - 08/13/2005 : 11:38:31
quote:
That's no excuse and never will be.
Exactly, especially since the people who use that as an excuse are often the same ones who decide when it is "wartime." There's something suspicious there, isn't there?
I'm not really sure about this situation. I mean, it turns out they were wrong to shoot the guy, but did they really have much of a choice? I don't know. It's definitely unfortunate, but he DID make himself look suspicious.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
| Monsieur |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 16:45:55
quote:
Originally posted by Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo
You bloody right, dear! And they are absulutely sweet and cheap in Paris, aren't they?
****
I never pay for the taxi.
Keep on rocking in a free world!
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| vilainde |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 07:54:55
Yeah it's great. Hey, I didn't know there was a second volume. Thanks Bill.
Denis
I know the god of rock n roll / Yeah I sold him my soul! |
| Scarla O |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 07:38:14
quote:
Originally posted by vilainde
I guess the whole book was published on the net. It was published in French (the translation is well done) and it's nice to have them all compiled.
Denis
I know the god of rock n roll / Yeah I sold him my soul!
In English too ('Get Your War On'):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1852428546/qid=1122561362/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_10_6/026-0327235-9328478
It's good isn't it? |
| jediroller |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 06:35:57
Always should be someone you really loooooove
I jumped on the Frank Black Bandwagon/'Cause Pixies are so 2004 |
| Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 05:52:47
quote:
Originally posted by jediroller
I mean that if our choice is between getting blown up in a random bombing or being pumped full of lead by a jumpy cop, I don't think there's much point in "fighting" or "defending" anything - we're fucked anyway.
And I certainly don't believe we will eliminate terrorism by trying to physically eliminate all potential terrorists!
I jumped on the Frank Black Bandwagon/'Cause Pixies are so 2004
Yes, we're fucked but it is not a good thing to be fucked and its highly frustrating. (sauf quand c'est fait par quelqu'un qu'on aime bien)
**** |
| jediroller |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 05:26:45
merci pour l'info
I jumped on the Frank Black Bandwagon/'Cause Pixies are so 2004 |
| vilainde |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 05:21:08
I guess the whole book was published on the net. It was published in French (the translation is well done) and it's nice to have them all compiled.
http://www.fnac.com/Shelf/article.asp?PRID=1409423&OrderInSession=0&Mn=2&SID=954267a2-74aa-0dfd-b61e-6ed082e4a76d&TTL=290720051419&Origin=fnac_google_home&Ra=-1&To=0&Nu=2&UID=191012455-2204-3630-DDA0-8483B44006C5&Fr=3
Denis
I know the god of rock n roll / Yeah I sold him my soul! |
| Newo |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 05:17:22
I don´t trust anyone who wages war on an abstract noun.
--
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to corner the fish market and marvel at the small acts of philanthropy he commits while depriving most of the world of fish. |
| jediroller |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 05:15:17
Denis, I've only ever seen it on the web. Is there more in book form?
I jumped on the Frank Black Bandwagon/'Cause Pixies are so 2004 |
| jediroller |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 05:13:35
I mean that if our choice is between getting blown up in a random bombing or being pumped full of lead by a jumpy cop, I don't think there's much point in "fighting" or "defending" anything - we're fucked anyway.
And I certainly don't believe we will eliminate terrorism by trying to physically eliminate all potential terrorists!
I jumped on the Frank Black Bandwagon/'Cause Pixies are so 2004 |
| Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 04:56:56
quote:
Originally posted by jediroller
How many bullets in the head are you ready to take in order to defend your concept of civilization? Will you stop at 3, or are 5 necessary to prove your point against barbarism? Make it 7, it's a biblical number isn't it?
Eight is overkill though, I think everyone will agree. It's just a waste of bullets.
I jumped on the Frank Black Bandwagon/'Cause Pixies are so 2004
What do you explicitly mean, dear?
**** |
| Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 04:53:55
You bloody right, dear! And they are absulutely sweet and cheap in Paris, aren't they?
**** |
| Monsieur |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 04:49:00
quote:
Originally posted by Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo
Real or not, this is definitely what should be displayed. Things should be formulated in an explicit way. Politically correct or not!!!!
FOR F*** 's SAKE! It's time to find a way to improve. Damage is necessary if we want to defend a concept of civilisation which is slowly bowing to barbarism!!!
I'm not shocked by the Police' s behaviour. They could improve of course but they do their damned job! I would not be shocked by an information message like the one above. It says what we think all (though most of all do not dare to face the harsh light of truth)
I am shocked by ugly self-bombing islamists with strong misunderstood gay tendancies that kill low and middle classes people in the tube!
Aren't you?
I demand a better future!
****
I personally always take a taxi.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| vilainde |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 04:48:59
Yeah! sorry to derail but David Rees' comics is fabulous. Have you read the whole book, jedi?
Denis
I know the god of rock n roll / Yeah I sold him my soul! |
| jediroller |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 04:37:57
How many bullets in the head are you ready to take in order to defend your concept of civilization? Will you stop at 3, or are 5 necessary to prove your point against barbarism? Make it 7, it's a biblical number isn't it?
Eight is overkill though, I think everyone will agree. It's just a waste of bullets.
I jumped on the Frank Black Bandwagon/'Cause Pixies are so 2004 |
| Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 03:22:05
Real or not, this is definitely what should be displayed. Things should be formulated in an explicit way. Politically correct or not!!!!
FOR F*** 's SAKE! It's time to find a way to improve. Damage is necessary if we want to defend a concept of civilisation which is slowly bowing to barbarism!!!
I'm not shocked by the Police' s behaviour. They could improve of course but they do their damned job! I would not be shocked by an information message like the one above. It says what we think all (though most of all do not dare to face the harsh light of truth)
I am shocked by ugly self-bombing islamists with strong misunderstood gay tendancies that kill low and middle classes people in the tube!
Aren't you?
I demand a better future!
**** |
| Carl |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 13:12:03
It probably should be for real!! |
| Surfer Rosa |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 10:46:07
Jpg that's done the email rounds today - don't know if it's for real, think it's just someone assing about in photoshop.
The only way to get rid of temptation is to yield to it. |
| Llamadance |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 10:35:33
Is that for real? Please say it's a joke.
________________________________________________________________________________
No power in the 'verse can stop me
|
| Surfer Rosa |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 04:27:06
The only way to get rid of temptation is to yield to it. |
| Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 03:18:22
WASTE YOUR TIME WITH HUMANISM, BE PEACEFULL AND TOLERANT AND DIE IN THE TUBE...
Don't blame me, I'm not responsible for FACTS!!!!
**** |
| Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 03:16:02
WAR!! IT'S WAR!!!!
And we are losing all along...
**** |
| Newo |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 03:14:44
quote:
Erebus
= Cult of Ray =
USA
1000 Posts
Posted - 07/22/2005 : 09:29:18
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Owen, I don't trust any of your websites. Too often I've read on socialist sites that winning policy battles is all about the ends, and the means be damned. Where truth is regarded as fiction, why not lie? It's so easy to assert that the CIA or whoever was in on it, and then manufacture quotes. You consider yourself the enlightened skeptic and then believe whatever confirms your worldview. Good luck with that.
I´m not really sure how to respond about socialism, the word means nothing to me, as does capitalism - all I see is a feudal system, you know vassals and serfs and that sort of thing. And I didn´t post any quotes on this thread but if you find any of mine you think are questionable I´d be happy to source them. I´m coming to the idea theorising gets you nowhere really, they´re everywhere, instead just listen to what the people tell you and look for emerging patterns. I will say at this point too many of the heroes and villains share bankers for me to be comfortable believing what´s on teevee.
--
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to corner the fish market and marvel at the small acts of philanthropy he commits while depriving most of the world of fish. |
| broken part |
Posted - 07/26/2005 : 21:36:40
stfu with the wartime.
think like they're just playing half-life. they're not killing eachother - they're fragging.
geeks with guns. |
| Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo |
Posted - 07/26/2005 : 00:29:55
Life during Wartime.
**** |
| Stuart |
Posted - 07/25/2005 : 21:13:20
Its scary that police are carrying guns on the street in London, Ive never seen that before other than at Heathrow airport!
This is a high class bureau de change, not some Punch & Judy show on the seafront at Margate! |
| broken part |
Posted - 07/25/2005 : 19:02:53
Feel like going for a jog?
'See that fucker? I'm gonna pump 5 bullets in his head!'
'Any Brazilians?'
'I'm so cool. Remember, this is what freedom looks like.'
Pax Britannia: We're watching you, and we're shooting you!
 |
