| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Erebus |
Posted - 05/08/2005 : 02:11:06
For the benefit of males everywhere, I would be grateful if the enlightened ladies of our forum could shed some light on this. Please discuss. And please do accept that my interest is genuinely open, as opposed to malicious. After all, though it would seem that men would kill one another, women can shred one another to bits. And I mean that with respect, in a machiavellian sense.
Study: Meanness in Girls Can Start at 3
Fri May 6, 2005 8:33 PM ET
Meanness in girls can start when they still are toddlers, a Brigham Young University study found. It found that girls as young as 3 or 4 will use manipulation and peer pressure to get what they want.
"It could range from leaving someone out to telling their friends not to play with someone to saying, 'I'm not going to invite you to my birthday party,'" said Craig Hart, study co-author and professor of marriage, family and human development at BYU. "Some kids are really adept at being mean and nasty."
They regularly exclude others and threaten to withdraw friendship when they don't get their way.
The "mean girls" are highly liked by some and strongly disliked by others. They are socially skilled and popular but can be manipulative and subversive if necessary. They are feared as well as respected.
The study is the first to link relational aggression and social status in preschoolers. It appears in the current issue of the journal Early Education and Development. David Nelson and Clyde Robinson of BYU are the other authors.
Researchers have long known that adolescents, particularly girls, engage in this sort of behavior, called relational aggression, to maintain their social status.
In fact, a number of books and movies have come out recently exploring this phenomenon, including the best-selling "Queen Bees and Wannabes" and the movie "Mean Girls."
"But it is striking that these aggressive strategies are already apparent ... in preschool," Nelson said. "Preschoolers appear to be more sophisticated in their knowledge of social behaviors than credit is typically given them."
Hart said other research has found that about 17 percent to 20 percent of preschool and school-age girls display such behavior. It also shows up in boys, but much less frequently.
"The typical mantra is that boys are more aggressive than girls, but in the last decade we've learned that girls can be just as aggressive as boys, just in different ways," he said.
The researchers asked 328 preschool children to rate their peers.
They asked which children were most likely to start fights, which were most popular and which were most physically aggressive_
The surveys found that even in preschool, a social hierarchy exists.
"You have popular kids, you have average kids, and you have kids (whom) others don't like to play with. Then there are some kids who just fly below the radar," Hart said.
Other research at BYU has shown that physically and relationally aggressive children are more likely to have parents who discipline with psychological control and manipulation, withdrawing love, avoiding eye contact and laying guilt trips on the kids.
"With relational aggression, we are early on in trying to tease apart these relationships," Hart said.
One thing researchers do know is that childhood slights can have lasting impacts.
Hart said the study may help teachers and parents key into relational aggression and the psychological and emotional trauma it can cause. Just as they do with physical aggression, adults need to monitor such behavior and help children recognize the harm it can cause.
"We've done studies showing that reasoning with children, not just one time but taking lots of opportunities to reason with them about how their behavior is affecting others, can help diminish it," Hart said.
Copyright © 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. |
| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Surfer Rosa |
Posted - 05/12/2005 : 05:38:42
Reading through this thread I am so so grateful for being sent to a really small hippy primary school - I can honestly say there was no such thing as bullying and I'd never even witnessed bullying till I got to the UK. Make no mistake I've seen plenty of bitchiness when I did end up going to an all girl high school & boarding school but nothing on the scale that some of you seem to have encountered. I thank my very lucky stars and hope that none of you have to ever go through what you have again. |
| kathryn |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 16:26:53
I'm starting to feel the love again here, people.
We've gone thru some pain but we are learning
to be more careful and caring now.
And I am not kidding.
 I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
| starmekitten |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 16:24:10
Darwin I'm so sorry I totally misread your post, I'll go back and edit that and thank you for seeing it for what it is.
 Go and tell the king that the sky is falling in |
| darwin |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 16:15:54
Sorry I missed apl4eris reply to my question, but I see it now.
quote:
Originally posted by starmekitten
Darwin, no one has dismissed that it happens to guys too, but sometimes it's good to talk woman to woman about the things that have affected us.
I'm not sure why this is directed at me. I was one of the ones saying that it was different for girls. |
| kathryn |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:59:37
The Pix of Beautiful Women thread? there's thread like that?
Huh. I didn't know that.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
| floop |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:56:43
quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
Now boys, go post in the what you learned from the forum thread. 
does this mean we can't post in the 'pictures of beautiful women' thread any more (today)?
I guess floop WAS right!
|
| floop |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:55:32
quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
Ooops I didn't see your post Tony.
Peace to you too brutha.
thanks carolyn,
peace on earth!
(ps. homers, i hope you don't mind if i use your signature too)
I guess floop WAS right!
|
| Carolynanna |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:54:29
Ooops I didn't see your post Tony.
Peace to you too brutha.
I'm glad this turned out to be a big deal.
Now boys, go post in the what you learned from the forum thread.
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
| kathryn |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:54:10
I blame all of this on Erebus!
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
| floop |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:51:19
quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
peace.
what, i don't get a "peace" too? so now homers is Mr. Nice Guy and i'm the big a-hole??
i see how it is |
| starmekitten |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:49:31
My parents were going through a messy divorce, my father lived away and my mother had a nervous breakdown, when she found out about some of the school trouble she went to the school to tell them and they made out it was my fault and made her cry so I covered it up after that. They had their own troubles and I don't blame them for any of it.
And no one has dismissed that it happens to guys too, but sometimes it's good to talk woman to woman about the things that have affected us. The whole point of this thread is the difference in the way girls act in this sort of discrimination. We're not trying to exclude anyone and I don't think some of you are trying to understand.
The issues, the specifics are different for us. This is what we're talking about.
Maybe I over-reacted, and I wasn't trying to make anyone feel guilty I was trying, and failing, to make people understand why it was a bad joke to make.
(and Darwin, you're an absolute super star big love to you my friend)
Go and tell the king that the sky is falling in |
| kathryn |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:44:58
My parents were oblivious about all things, especially
what abuse their children suffered at someone else's hands
(and their own). darwin your daughter would tell you.
From what your posts say about you as a dad, she would
tell you.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Catholics |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:44:34
Peace sister.
I guess floop WAS right!
|
| Carolynanna |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:43:24
quote:
Originally posted by Homers_pet_monkey
OK I am no longer gonna speak for the others guys but I can honestly say that my jokes were not intended to be hurtful. I think anyone of sane mind can see that. They didn't even have anything to do with the subject matter. They may as well have been Knock Knock jokes.
I am obviously alone in myself liking people to lighten up a thread that has gotten me upset. I honestly do like that but have learnt that not everybody does and fair enough. I just feel personally that when you have lost your sense of humour then you have lost everything (although obviously I realise there are limits, I am sure you guys have laughed at dodgy humour that was more potentially hurtful to others than my jokes were to anyone here).
EDIT: Shit now I am paranoid. I have just realised that my new sig. may be taken the wrong way in light of recent events. It's nothing to do with any of this, just pure co-ink-i-dink.
I guess floop WAS right!
Mike I know you are a good guy,
and I'll say that I know you wouldn't mean to be hurtful.
This is an issue that can't be lightened up.
Don't take it as a guilt trip, take it as us ladies trying to promote understanding.
When its that painful, empathy is better.
peace.
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
| floop |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:41:26
*cautiously stepping back in here*
i would like to add that, had i known my jokes would be hurtful, i would not have posted them.. i like to think i have a sense of when and when not to push it too far. i was way off in this situation and didn't realize how serious a subject this is.. so, you have my apologies..
i would like to second what homers has said though.. no one meant any harm here. and in all fairness, you guys dish out your share of jokes too..
*quickly runs out* |
| mosleyk |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:38:12
I never really told my parents. My father (no offense) being a man didn't understand too well. He would say things like, "oh, don't pay any attention to them" and my mother would say things like, "it all comes around in the end" I am not faulting them here, but you have to know my parents had me later in life they were older and of a different generation than most of my peers' parents. They were the generation of stiff upper lip. Not cruel or unemotional. They were very loving, but not savy about what it was like for me. They were from sock hops and jerry mathis records. You know what I mean? |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:37:11
OK I am no longer gonna speak for the others guys but I can honestly say that my jokes were not intended to be hurtful. I think anyone of sane mind can see that. They didn't even have anything to do with the subject matter. They may as well have been Knock Knock jokes.
I am obviously alone in myself liking people to lighten up a thread that has gotten me upset. I honestly do like that but have learnt that not everybody does and fair enough. I just feel personally that when you have lost your sense of humour then you have lost everything (although obviously I realise there are limits, I am sure you guys have laughed at dodgy humour that was more potentially hurtful to others than my jokes were to anyone here).
EDIT: Shit now I am paranoid. I have just realised that my new sig. may be taken the wrong way in light of recent events. It's nothing to do with any of this, just pure co-ink-i-dink.
I guess floop WAS right!
|
| mosleyk |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:29:37
quote:
Originally posted by starmekitten
This thread, is serious.
This thread has made me feel less alienated as a girl, it's made me realise I am not mad I'm not the only one who thinks like this. Read my early posts mike and you'll see I took it serious.
This issue is close to my heart.
Go and tell the king that the sky is falling in
I am with you Tre. This thread has really helped me alot. I am so in awe of the wonderful women of this forum. And thank you so much for sharing with us your story. It had me in sobbing, and wishing you didn't live so far away. (Not too mention it also made me want to kick the asses of all the girls who ever made you feel less than)
It really is a serious problem and I am so glad that we are talking about it.
|
| Carolynanna |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:29:26
quote:
Originally posted by darwin
To maybe get back on topic, nobody answered my question:
So when you were being picked on in school did your parents know it was happening or did you keep it from them?
Apl did.
Basically she said no because her parents were asses and wouldn't have done anything anyway.
And I gotta say ditto.
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
| darwin |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:26:46
quote:
Originally posted by Homers_pet_monkey
But why does it have to remain that way? Why can't this topic develop to include 'people'?
Because it's different for boys and girls, it's a special discussion for some people, and expanding it will water it down. |
| Carolynanna |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:26:16
Oh okay about the making jokes thing, I see.
Sometimes it seems like guys don't even realize how much of a problem these kinds of things are. And when its spelled out in a thread like this and jokes are still made, it does seem like a brick to the head is the only way to make it known.
Its just frustating when its something that you live with all the time and its not taken seriously.
That's the only way I know how to describe it.
I ain't mad or anything at ya Mikey.
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
| darwin |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:23:56
To maybe get back on topic, nobody answered my question:
So when you were being picked on in school did your parents know it was happening or did you keep it from them? |
| Carolynanna |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:21:01
quote:
Originally posted by Homers_pet_monkey
quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
See, real pain.
Apl too said she can hardly talk about it because it still bothers her.
Mike, this affects all girls, all of them.
__________
This is the war and not the warning.
Due to one of your earlier posts I can't reply to this how I would have liked.
Actually no fuck it. Kittie's post did not seem exclusive to girls to me. I know I for oen was teased at school and felt bad about my image, in fact I still do.
Kim, will you do me the honour of being my wife?
Yes of course all people can potentially be teased, male or female.
But we are talking about girls here specifically.
And we have tied in how painful the pressure of having to live up to the images of female perfection around us can be.
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:20:56
Kitty I know that but I really don't think you can have a go at people for the usual bollocks they come out with, they really meant nothing by it and you have to be big enough to see that and ignore it. We have both done it to enough other people's threads before, serious and non-serious.
You know we love you, I told you all that earlier in the thread. We honestly meant nothing by it and we are sorry.
I guess floop WAS right!
|
| Carolynanna |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:18:55
quote:
Originally posted by Homers_pet_monkey
I think we agree to stop the jokes but can we also stop adding to the guilt now please. I'm sorry.
Kim, will you do me the honour of being my wife?
The guilt you feel is self-induced.
We are mainly talking about society, in general.
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
| starmekitten |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:16:16
This thread, is serious.
This thread has made me feel less alienated as a girl, it's made me realise I am not mad I'm not the only one who thinks like this. Read my early posts mike and you'll see I took it serious.
This issue is close to my heart.
Go and tell the king that the sky is falling in |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:14:10
quote:
Originally posted by starmekitten
you're not happy when I don't justify it
you're not happy when I try to.
Go and tell the king that the sky is falling in
Because to be honest with you, I didn't think you were serious. Like us.
I guess floop WAS right!
|
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:05:27
quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
See, real pain.
Apl too said she can hardly talk about it because it still bothers her.
Mike, this affects all girls, all of them.
__________
This is the war and not the warning.
Due to one of your earlier posts I can't reply to this how I would have liked.
Actually no fuck it. Kittie's post did not seem exclusive to girls to me. I know I for oen was teased at school and felt bad about my image, in fact I still do.
Kim, will you do me the honour of being my wife?
|
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:02:16
I think we agree to stop the jokes but can we also stop adding to the guilt now please. I'm sorry.
Kim, will you do me the honour of being my wife?
|
| Carolynanna |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 14:59:24
See, real pain.
Apl too said she can hardly talk about it because it still bothers her.
Mike, this affects all girls, all of them.
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 14:58:49
Well if you feel better for trying to make people on here feel bad now then you've succeeded. I do and I don't see why I should.
Regardless of your problems, and regardless how insensitive some people may find this reply, I don't think it was necessary. You know they meant nothing by the jokes (mine had nothing to do with you) and also probably weren't aware of your problems. How do you know that any post you ever make is gonna offend someone somewhere? So long as you mean no harm then I don't think you deserve to be made to feel like shit.
Kim, will you do me the honour of being my wife?
|
| starmekitten |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 14:49:43
you're not happy when I don't justify it
you're not happy when I try to.
Go and tell the king that the sky is falling in |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 14:48:24
I'm gonna bite my tongue but I am not "fucking" happy.
Kim, will you do me the honour of being my wife?
|
| Cheeseman1000 |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 14:47:27
coughMSNcough
en el amor se esconden las respuestas |
| floop |
Posted - 05/11/2005 : 14:46:51
sorry girls. wasn't trying to hurt any feelings..
i'll just, uh.. leave now.
|
