| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| TarTar |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 05:37:39
Who wants to take a little trip with me? I think we'll be safe there... and truly free, as opposed to this whole facade of freedom that is flaunted in the good ol' U.S. of A.
Inna zany combination of Wayne's Pet Youngin'! |
| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| VoVat |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 21:06:25
quote:
I miss the airports, the New Jersey turnpike, the GWB.
You miss George W. Bush?
"Signature quotes are so lame." --Nathan |
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 16:13:20
E, thanks for posting that. Many thanks, indeed.
 I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank |
| Erebus |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 16:07:04
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
How do you mean that, William G? Are you refering to Theo van Gogh's murder or the socio-political scene in general? I am very interested to hear what you have to say.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank
well there is the almost natural xenophobia around here
but after 9/11 and the murder of Pim Fortuyn (right wing politician) and last weeks Theo Van Gogh, the debat gets harder and harder
I think it's reasonable that all the extremist, left, right and religious should be in prison. But a lot of people think all the foreigners (and most likely they mean: blacks and muslims) should be forced to leave Holland. Meanwhile our tolerant community is falling down, the goverment is supporting the old people, schools and healthcare less and less. It's still ten times better than in the US I believe, but it isn't what it was
http://nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen200411101620.asp
November 10, 2004, 4:20 p.m. Michael Ledeen nro
The Killers
The Dutch hit crisis point.
Mohammed B., the man accused of killing Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh in Amsterdam last week, was born and bred in the Netherlands, "known as a relaxed, friendly and intelligent young man," a good student, a volunteer social worker, and a serious student of Information Technology. He came from a close family, and the death of his mother three years ago hit him very hard. He began to devote more time to religious studies, and in the last year became increasingly fanatic. [snip]
We have seen this sort before; Mohammed B. is the Dutch-Moroccan version of the British-Pakistani killer of Daniel Pearl. Both came from good families that had to all appearances successfully assimilated into Western society. Both were well educated and upwardly mobile. Both had money and opportunity. Neither suffered unusual discrimination. Both lived in politically correct, meticulously tolerant societies that permitted no intrusion on their private lives. There was no apparent reason, either psychological or sociological, why either should have become a killer. Yet each freely chose — freely chose — to become a terrorist. [snip]
As things stand, the Europeans are so enthralled by cultural relativism and political correctness that they are totally unwilling to challenge any idea, even the jihadists' program of creating a theocratic state within Western civil society. The terrorist groups consider themselves autonomous, a community of believers opposed to the broader community of unbelievers and apostates.
The killing of Theo van Gogh is a textbook case of what happens when a tolerant but confused society takes political correctness to its illogical extreme. For Mohammed B. did not choose terrorism all by himself. He was indoctrinated and recruited in a mosque where he was pumped full of the Wahabbi doctrine "predominant in Saudi Arabia." The murder of van Gogh was an instant replay of the many murders carried out by Zarqawi and his followers in Iraq, extolled by fanatical Muslim Imams. As Allam reminds us, not all mosques are fundamentalist, extremist, or terrorist, but all the fundamentalists, extremists, and terrorists got that way in mosques.
The Dutch — like every other European society I know — were unwilling to recognize that they had potentially lethal enemies within, and that it was necessary to impose the rules of civil behavior on everyone within their domain. The rules of political correctness made it impossible even to criticize the jihadists, never mind compel them to observe the rules of civil society. Just look at what happened the next day: An artist in Rotterdam improvised a wall fresco that consisted of an angel and the words "Thou Shalt Not Kill." The local imam protested, and local authorities removed the fresco. [snip]
|
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/08/2004 : 11:22:06
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
How do you mean that, William G? Are you refering to Theo van Gogh's murder or the socio-political scene in general? I am very interested to hear what you have to say.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank
well there is the almost natural xenophobia around here
but after 9/11 and the murder of Pim Fortuyn (right wing politician) and last weeks Theo Van Gogh, the debat gets harder and harder
I think it's reasonable that all the extremist, left, right and religious should be in prison. But a lot of people think all the foreigners (and most likely they mean: blacks and muslims) should be forced to leave Holland. Meanwhile our tolerant community is falling down, the goverment is supporting the old people, schools and healthcare less and less. It's still ten times better than in the US I believe, but it isn't what it was
 "I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!"
I do appreciate your writing that. I think about that often, as I did
seriously consider moving there. No place is perfect. Perhaps I am wrong but I feel that at least these issues are being dealt with in Holland (and elsewhere in Europe) in a constructive way, whereas in the States, well, we're about to completely destroy Fallujah. That's our solution, apparently.
How was Theo VG related to Vincent's bro, anyway? Just wonderin' yet again.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank |
| thermoplastics |
Posted - 11/07/2004 : 20:24:17
Sorry,
I couldn’t willing spend more than a couple of months away from home. Every time I fly back in, it’s like getting a double shot of caffeine. America moves, does, makes, breaks, builds, rips down, bets, fights, drives and drives and drives. I miss 24 hour seven days a week Fed-Ex overnight super hot water ice cold blast of air everywhere turbo diesel sport fishing boats ready to fish with ten gold reeled rods. I miss the airports, the New Jersey turnpike, the GWB. I miss the farms the ranches, small airports full of private planes. I miss old Boston and plastic power lighted up Las Vegas. I miss driving on the same highway at eighty for days and still not hitting the west coast. I like it that our cities have more police and helicopters than most countries armies.
I miss our girls, our women. I miss American blacks and Jews. I miss eating and driving in LA for weeks and not seeing but a bit of it. I miss Home Depot, Wal-Mart. All the old stuff in Europe starts to get depressing. I miss big spenders, drinkers, eaters, tippers. I miss the wild cars, the jacked-up trucks, the old cars.
But mostly I miss the feeling that anything is possible, that somewhere there is someone, somehow that’s going your way, has the money, the connection, the desire to go, do, be whatever you want. The future is here in America. When I go away, I always feel as if I am missing the party. It’s in my blood. I’d walk back, drink from puddles, eat road kill, but I’d come back. |
| billgoodman |
Posted - 11/07/2004 : 14:06:38
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
How do you mean that, William G? Are you refering to Theo van Gogh's murder or the socio-political scene in general? I am very interested to hear what you have to say.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank
well there is the almost natural xenophobia around here
but after 9/11 and the murder of Pim Fortuyn (right wing politician) and last weeks Theo Van Gogh, the debat gets harder and harder
I think it's reasonable that all the extremist, left, right and religious should be in prison. But a lot of people think all the foreigners (and most likely they mean: blacks and muslims) should be forced to leave Holland. Meanwhile our tolerant community is falling down, the goverment is supporting the old people, schools and healthcare less and less. It's still ten times better than in the US I believe, but it isn't what it was
"I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
| VoVat |
Posted - 11/07/2004 : 13:45:59
quote:
Vovat is that a coded way of implying she was a lesbian or something? I am drunk at the moment and therefore more dense than usual, so help me out. Trying to understand about your Smith comment.
There's someone I kind of know who's a big Plath fan and who's going to Smith. I'd just never put the two together before. That's all.
"Signature quotes are so lame." --Nathan |
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/07/2004 : 10:25:19
How do you mean that, William G? Are you refering to Theo van Gogh's murder or the socio-political scene in general? I am very interested to hear what you have to say.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank |
| billgoodman |
Posted - 11/07/2004 : 09:17:32
hey karthryn
if you want to come to holland
I could help you out
but I don't say holland is any better than the usa
"I joined the cult of Jon Tiven/Bye!" |
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/07/2004 : 05:30:05
Maybe it was called Wallflower, Dave, you poet-at-heart-you?
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 11/07/2004 : 00:33:51
I think I read the Wallpaper or Yellow Wallpaper or something....
"Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 18:29:27
Vovat is that a coded way of implying she was a lesbian or something? I am drunk at the moment and therefore more dense than usual, so help me out. Trying to understand about your Smith comment. Just curious and happy.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 13:27:05
I read 'The Bell Jar', gave me a headache although that may have ben more to do with the fact I was grumpy at the time anyway.
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| VoVat |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 12:10:24
quote:
Did you say "Sylvia Plath"? I went thru a major teenage-girl Sylvia Plath stage and just about killed myself when Smith, the school she went to, rejected me.
She went to Smith? Well, THAT explains something totally unrelated to this forum that none of you care about.
The only poem of hers I've read was some kind of metaphor for pregnancy. We read it in school, and had to interpret it.
"Signature quotes are so lame." --Nathan |
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 09:58:10
Back on topic + Tears for Fears =
Everybody wants to rule the world
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 06:27:04
wow derailment of a derailment back to it's original topic
tears for fears were spot on man, it is a mad world
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 04:23:14
Did you say "Sylvia Plath"? I went thru a major teenage-girl Sylvia Plath stage and just about killed myself when Smith, the school she went to, rejected me. I love that poem and the father-as-Nazi theme in several of her poems. Traitor that I am, now I prefer her ex-husband's poetry to hers.
She was an ex-pat. Left the States to live and write and die in England.
Who says threads don't eventually return to their topics?
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank |
| Newo |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 03:16:31
Or that Sylvia Plath poem about loving the brute boot in face.
--
But whenever, as scholars sometimes do, I turned my back on books, declaring them to be the graveyards of the language, and sought contact with the simple folk, I encountered the little cannibals who lived in our building, and after brief association with them, felt very glad to get back to my reading in one piece.
|
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 19:06:36
This reminds me of the Gang of Four song "I Love a Man In a Uniform."
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank |
| VoVat |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 17:38:30
Well, who DOESN'T want to do it with a fascist?
(The answer: Almost everybody)
"Signature quotes are so lame." --Nathan |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 11:03:34
if not she might have asked if you wanted a little facist in you...
as a chat up line this doesn't work as well as the yorkshireman one
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| whoreatthedoor |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 10:58:19
You thought that there was a little fascist in me, didn't you?
If you fall I will catch you, I'll be waiting... |
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 10:54:59
Gotcha! Thanks.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank |
| whoreatthedoor |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 10:43:09
I was trying to say that Franco had some funny moments, in answer to Vovat, but it was taken in another way. There are some amusing stories about him. Funny if you take them retrospectively.
If you fall I will catch you, I'll be waiting... |
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 10:33:57
What, pray tell, was the upside to Franco, Whore? I am not being facetious here, merely curious.
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank |
| whoreatthedoor |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 08:48:04
"El Mundo"??? HAHAHAHA. Sorry. Is it me or "El Mundo" is extremely fascist since they lost the last elections?
If you fall I will catch you, I'll be waiting... |
| Carl |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 08:45:44
I worked there for about a year. Love that fritsauce! |
| Newo |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 08:36:21
Hmm the price of freedom is fascism. I wish to subscribe to your newsletter, my man.
--
But whenever, as scholars sometimes do, I turned my back on books, declaring them to be the graveyards of the language, and sought contact with the simple folk, I encountered the little cannibals who lived in our building, and after brief association with them, felt very glad to get back to my reading in one piece.
|
| whoreatthedoor |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 08:32:56
That's the evidence that this country is liberal. You should be burned for saying that.
If you fall I will catch you, I'll be waiting... |
| Newo |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 08:00:46
He still does, judging by some of the cabinet in this country. 
--
But whenever, as scholars sometimes do, I turned my back on books, declaring them to be the graveyards of the language, and sought contact with the simple folk, I encountered the little cannibals who lived in our building, and after brief association with them, felt very glad to get back to my reading in one piece.
|
| whoreatthedoor |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 00:46:10
Franco had his moments 
If you fall I will catch you, I'll be waiting... |
| VoVat |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 19:31:06
quote:
He will go away...sooner or later, but the land and the friends don´t
But the land and the President are ONE!
quote:
Our monarchy is a joke, Owen. It has been a joke for 2 centuries. Long jokes aren't funny.
Well, it's funnier than Franco, anyway.
"Signature quotes are so lame." --Nathan |
| Newo |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 13:57:47
Xavi, what I meant to say is our view that they're just a bunch of eccentrics we allow to parade around in weird regalia doesn't fit with the influence they actually have over our lives.
Found something might interest you http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/crown.htm
--
But whenever, as scholars sometimes do, I turned my back on books, declaring them to be the graveyards of the language, and sought contact with the simple folk, I encountered the little cannibals who lived in our building, and after brief association with them, felt very glad to get back to my reading in one piece.
|
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 11:23:01
We couldn't get a good look at your legs in that photo you sent. But I am sure you would do a good job. But my point before (and I had one!) was that I decided this morning that I cannot feel fury at 59 million people for the next four years. I have spent the last four years feeling furious about Bush and his cronies and that was exhausting, feeling pissed at a handful of people. Now, I may be (and indeed am!) the Anger Queen but I can't do it, I can't feel this outraged.
So I feel meek and hollow today, especially after yesterday's post-election anti-Bush demonstrations, but also grateful for your pity and love and everything else.
Funny, I was just emailing a special someone about The Pity Fuck.
Oh, now THERE"S a great thread to be started:
Have You Ever Done The Pity Fuck And How Shitty Did You Feel Afterwards?
I still believe in the excellent joy of the Frank |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 10:34:08
and after all the kicking you will have mighty legs.
righteous ones too
Frank Black ate my hamster |
|
|
