| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| coastline |
Posted - 02/19/2010 : 08:56:51
I know he's still going by the name Black Francis, but The Golem sounds so much to me like Frank Black music. And I'm glad for it. It's like an old friend is back from a years-long bender.
I liked Bluefinger -- as a friend says, it's a punk masterpiece. But Svn Fngrs, at least for me, represented an artist who had completely lost his way. When I listen to it, the music sounds to me as forced as the reincarnation of the Black Francis persona itself.
But now, reading all these comments in the Der Golem thread -- http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19482 -- referencing several different Catholics albums, I wonder if I'm not the only one who feels like he's returned to an earlier time. God bless him for it.
 Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Don Eduardo |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 12:08:24
quote:
Originally posted by vilainde
quote:
Originally posted by coastline
I wouldn't say it's his worst (Svn Fngrs is)
Dude, I like you, but this is beyond me. Svn Fngrs is all the best of Frank's 20-year career, summed up in 7 pieces of absolute greatness (OK, 6 if you except The Seus which isn't too good). Tracks 2 to 7 are the best 15 minutes I've ever spent away from your mum.
Denis
"Can you hear me? I aint got shit to say."
Totally agree. Love them all (particularly Garbage Heap/Half Man which are two FB all-time classics to my ear) except for The Seus...but I love the Charles Normal remix! |
| oddball |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 11:16:54
I am probably in the minority, but I do think Fastman Raiderman is one of the best FB/BF albums.
-Oddball |
| vilainde |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 09:12:51
quote:
Originally posted by coastline
I wouldn't say it's his worst (Svn Fngrs is)
Dude, I like you, but this is beyond me. Svn Fngrs is all the best of Frank's 20-year career, summed up in 7 pieces of absolute greatness (OK, 6 if you except The Seus which isn't too good). Tracks 2 to 7 are the best 15 minutes I've ever spent away from your mum.
Denis
"Can you hear me? I aint got shit to say." |
| johnnyribcage |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 07:30:26
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I sometimes think that Frank lossed his focus since touring with the Pixies. I still love the records and maybe I'm looking way too much into it, but the Catholics toured a lot and recorded a lot. Now he records less and tours a lot with a band that doesn't record. The creative part and the hard work aren't connected.
How much better could SVN FNGRS have been? The production on that record is so fresh, he's breaking new ground (the seus), but still...it has a filler vibe, too rushed. I dare to say that without a Pixies reunion that could have been a great fulllength record.
Der Golem is good, but it's not mindblowing. I'm still in awe of his ability to come up with great lyrics and songs, but his legacy is pushing 20+ records. Every record has more records that I love to fight and that fight is getting harder and harder (IN MY MIND!) I wonder what NSE brings.
Yet, Bluefinger is a masterpiece. One of his best.
---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
I can dig where you're coming from here, but I don't know, a lot of those later Catholics albums have a meandering vibe. I like that about them, but they don't sound particularly "focused" to me. Honeycomb was pretty focused, but Raiderman was all over the place. I think all that including Raiderman was before the reunion. Like you said, Bluefinger is a masterpiece, and SVN was just an EP. I can't expect much from an EP, really. I think he's just been taking some time doing what he feels like doing. He wanted do do a little homespun deal with his wife which was Grand Duchy, did a soundtrack, we've got what appears to be a really well-crafted record coming out this month. I think he's right on track, honestly.
If anything, it seems like the reunion shook his creativity up in a great way. We've had all kinds of wildly varying and interesting new music from him since then, really exploring some different avenues. Prior to the reunion, it was getting a little predictable. Good, but predictable.
I'll mash your perfect parts. |
| trobrianders |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 06:38:36
quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
I don't know if i would say the golem is a return to frank, so much as a mixing of frank and francis. I say that because its kind of like the rootsy style of songwriting as frank, with the more artsy/alternative spirit of francis
That sounds pretty much right.
It feels like he's going to continue dipping in and out of recognisable musical guises for a while until he hits us again with something really new. There’s that other debate that's going on in a few other threads; Will he stop working on the hoof and spend some quantity time in the studio again to deliver an accomplished record? Non Stop Erotik could have been that kind of record but it still sounds to me like a product of that svn fngrs work ethic . The Golem was more open sounding.
Bill made a really good point earlier in this thread about the creative part and the hardworking part not being in sync like the Frank Black of old.
_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo |
| coastline |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 05:20:48
quote:
Originally posted by oddball
I will never grow tired of seeing someone make the claim that FB/BF album "X" is the worst of all, only to be "challenged" (often within minutes) by someone else making the claim that said album "X" is in fact his best.
I bet nobody ever claims Fast Man Raider Man to be his best work. I wouldn't say it's his worst (Svn Fngrs is), but I suspect a lot of people would -- and there wouldn't be many challenges.
Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
| Brank_Flack |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 18:44:23
Dude, "X" sucked! It was totally uninspired, especially in comparison to the Catholics. (I kid, I kid) |
| oddball |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 18:38:35
I will never grow tired of seeing someone make the claim that FB/BF album "X" is the worst of all, only to be "challenged" (often within minutes) by someone else making the claim that said album "X" is in fact his best. Even better, these respective opinions are often reversed the very next day:)
The man is a genius! Es lebe der König Black Francis!
-Oddball |
| johnnyribcage |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 18:26:09
quote:
Originally posted by velvety
And SMYT is pretty crappy too.
Holy shit. Peace, I'm out.
I'll mash your perfect parts. |
| gotmeamovie |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 12:00:28
He will never topple frank black.teenager of the year period
in all regards
live performances, songs, attitude, interviews, feeling
love it all
"I could take a walk and really wonder, really wonder" |
| langdonboom |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 14:22:13
I love SVN FNGRS, my favorite since Dog in the Sand, probably - except for Der Golem now! Such a different vibe, but one I love there. Still, I can listen to SVN FNGRS anytime still - that ones a tossed-off masterpiece in my opinion! I liked Bluefinger too, but not as much. |
| joe FITZ of molly BANG |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 05:19:40
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I sometimes think that Frank lossed his focus since touring with the Pixies. I still love the records and maybe I'm looking way too much into it, but the Catholics toured a lot and recorded a lot. Now he records less and tours a lot with a band that doesn't record. The creative part and the hard work aren't connected.
How much better could SVN FNGRS have been? The production on that record is so fresh, he's breaking new ground (the seus), but still...it has a filler vibe, too rushed. I dare to say that without a Pixies reunion that could have been a great fulllength record.
Der Golem is good, but it's not mindblowing. I'm still in awe of his ability to come up with great lyrics and songs, but his legacy is pushing 20+ records. Every record has more records that I love to fight and that fight is getting harder and harder (IN MY MIND!) I wonder what NSE brings.
Yet, Bluefinger is a masterpiece. One of his best.
---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
I wouldn't say he's lost his focus. he is a genius and even his worst albums are better than most. I think he did lose a little passion during the nashville sessions, but there are still great songs in there.
in my opinion it would have been much better with just him acoustic, but how awesome is it that he played with all of those awesome musicians?
for a person his age, who has already made so many good albums, he still is doing great. and that's why he's my favorite. the pixies catologue alone is enough to make him my fave, but he's still making kick ass albums like bluefinger.
yes not as consistently awesome as his earlier, but he's still trying new things and he's still obviously got talent. |
| fumanbru |
Posted - 02/28/2010 : 02:54:39
i think what I like most is the change factor and unpredictability of the next project..you can grow with the artist. i like acdc but it does get somewhat redundant. some stuff I don’t like at first but maybe after a while it may grow on me.ie honeycomb, the new non stop erotic song. it's somewhat surprising that I am listening to the same artist after 20 years of regular continual listening…that says a lot about an artist and their catalog…
 "I joined the Cult of Frank/ cause I'm a real go-getter!"...long live snitz!! |
| billgoodman |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 01:50:06
I agree.
---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
| eroticvultcha |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 01:36:34
quote:
Originally posted by oddball
I'm not sure what people mean by perfection. The relatively quick turnaround captures his talent and gift for song writing in my opinion. Take a songs like Humboldt County Massacre or Sunday Sunny Mill Valley Groove Day, for instance. The first versions stand out as a result of their rawness and spontaneity. Certainly others will disagree, but the follow-up versions of both songs, in my opinion, lost some of their edginess as a result of "waiting". Just my two cents.
-Oddball
Very true. I think the SSMVGD version of 'I Will Run After You' is actually a lot better than the BLD one, for instance. Not sure whether many people would agree, though. |
| billgoodman |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 21:20:06
quote:
Originally posted by oddball
I'm not sure what people mean by perfection. The relatively quick turnaround captures his talent and gift for song writing in my opinion. Take a songs like Humboldt County Massacre or Sunday Sunny Mill Valley Groove Day, for instance. The first versions stand out as a result of their rawness and spontaneity. Certainly others will disagree, but the follow-up versions of both songs, in my opinion, lost some of their edginess as a result of "waiting". Just my two cents.
-Oddball
I agree completely.
---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
| oddball |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 16:22:22
Very true. It's also interesting to note that the shortest of his most recent releases, Svnfngrs, seems to be the one receiving the most criticism.
-Oddball |
| Brank_Flack |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 16:15:19
Also, I think there's a myth that frank has only started to write and record quickly in the last few years. It seems like its something he's done throughout his career, even back in the days of writing pixies songs for bossanova and trompe le monde in the studio. |
| oddball |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 16:09:41
I'm not sure what people mean by perfection. The relatively quick turnaround captures his talent and gift for song writing in my opinion. Take a songs like Humboldt County Massacre or Sunday Sunny Mill Valley Groove Day, for instance. The first versions stand out as a result of their rawness and spontaneity. Certainly others will disagree, but the follow-up versions of both songs, in my opinion, lost some of their edginess as a result of "waiting". Just my two cents.
-Oddball |
| Brank_Flack |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 16:02:06
Maybe we can switch two or three years to two or three months, haha |
| velvety |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 14:47:13
I don't know if he lost focus since touring with the Pixies. Maybe it has something to do with him now having 13 kids running around the house?
I've kind of let go of the idea of Frank creating a masterpiece since DITS. That record could have been perfect, just as Bluefinger or Black Letter Days or even Fast Man/Raider Man could have been perfect. He doesn't seem worried about creating a stellar album anymore, and seems more interested in creating the individual songs. Which is fine, since FB and TOTY didn't get the recognition they deserved. Still, I would love if Frank spent two or three years working on an album, instead of recording albums with songs he came up the night before. |
| billgoodman |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 11:51:55
I sometimes think that Frank lossed his focus since touring with the Pixies. I still love the records and maybe I'm looking way too much into it, but the Catholics toured a lot and recorded a lot. Now he records less and tours a lot with a band that doesn't record. The creative part and the hard work aren't connected.
How much better could SVN FNGRS have been? The production on that record is so fresh, he's breaking new ground (the seus), but still...it has a filler vibe, too rushed. I dare to say that without a Pixies reunion that could have been a great fulllength record.
Der Golem is good, but it's not mindblowing. I'm still in awe of his ability to come up with great lyrics and songs, but his legacy is pushing 20+ records. Every record has more records that I love to fight and that fight is getting harder and harder (IN MY MIND!) I wonder what NSE brings.
Yet, Bluefinger is a masterpiece. One of his best.
---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
| joe FITZ of molly BANG |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 11:30:52
quote:
Originally posted by pot
quote:
Originally posted by eroticvultcha
Also, there's a good ~20 years between the new and old incarnations of Black Francis. His voice had a character to it that is near impossible to replicate as a man in his 40s. Don't get me wrong - Frank if anything has improved as a singer, but his voice has matured.
There are so many exceptional songs that have been released since the reversion... and, hell, the man can call himself whatever he wants to - but Frank Black often seems to fit better with the new material than Black Francis.
before i saw the pixies at coachella i was skeptical that he could still yell, but he is just as great in my opinion. the best yeller ever!
That's an interesting point and something I have also noticed. His voice has changed, which is of course to be expected. I'm not so sure the old BF screams and wails come across as well on record as they did in his hey day, but certainly live they do! I was privelaged to see him on the Bluefinger tour with Skippy, Ding and Charles Normal and his voice sounded really powerful, I'm surprised he didn't bust a blood vessel. Understandably his voice does sound rougher as a result of 20 years of screaming, and this probably does lend itself more to an FB style a la Christmass album and FMRM.
|
| joe FITZ of molly BANG |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 11:28:15
quote:
Originally posted by Apesy
my problem with frank since reverting to francis has nothing to do with the melodies, which have been fine. it's the lyrics: half-baked, forced sex and tough guy stuff. i can't hear, "mary had a little lamb, the shit was pure as snow," without cringing very, very hard. granted this is the same man who once sang, "losing my penis to a whore with disease," and, "oh kiss me cunt," but...i can't explain it. it was more organic to the material then i suppose. now it's so jarring it can just take me right out of a song
-=Apesy
i do sometimes not like the shit was pure as snow part. i don't think it's tough guy tho. |
| pot |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 14:19:29
quote:
Originally posted by eroticvultcha
Also, there's a good ~20 years between the new and old incarnations of Black Francis. His voice had a character to it that is near impossible to replicate as a man in his 40s. Don't get me wrong - Frank if anything has improved as a singer, but his voice has matured.
There are so many exceptional songs that have been released since the reversion... and, hell, the man can call himself whatever he wants to - but Frank Black often seems to fit better with the new material than Black Francis.
That's an interesting point and something I have also noticed. His voice has changed, which is of course to be expected. I'm not so sure the old BF screams and wails come across as well on record as they did in his hey day, but certainly live they do! I was privelaged to see him on the Bluefinger tour with Skippy, Ding and Charles Normal and his voice sounded really powerful, I'm surprised he didn't bust a blood vessel. Understandably his voice does sound rougher as a result of 20 years of screaming, and this probably does lend itself more to an FB style a la Christmass album and FMRM. |
| gary13th |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 13:12:32
This is my own honest opinion, which of course everyone thinks differently to each other and may not agree with.
I agree with numerous posts above, relating to the last few albums, lyrical content, lacking lead guitar. Whether you look at the higher production albums (FB, Teenager) or the lesser (FB&TC, DW) - I enjoyed the music --- the melding of the instruments, vocals and melody --- and the lyrics. At the moment i feel lesser connected to the lyrics, and the music. I for one am also glad he dropped playing some of his older stuff with the band live, as lovely songs like California Bound or Manitoba didnt sit with the new style, where with the catholics he played songs like Gouge Away and Monkey, and put a unique spin on his old songs in the new style.
Grand Duchy has been a bit better, taking as lesser FB/BF, but I'm sadly disappointed.
----------
I joined the Cult of the Catholics, Oh when will they return ? |
| eroticvultcha |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 09:21:52
quote:
Originally posted by Apesy
my problem with frank since reverting to francis has nothing to do with the melodies, which have been fine. it's the lyrics: half-baked, forced sex and tough guy stuff. i can't hear, "mary had a little lamb, the shit was pure as snow," without cringing very, very hard. granted this is the same man who once sang, "losing my penis to a whore with disease," and, "oh kiss me cunt," but...i can't explain it. it was more organic to the material then i suppose. now it's so jarring it can just take me right out of a song
-=Apesy
The lyrics never bothered me. It's the production - straightforward, lacking reverb and, mostly, lacking lead guitar. I always wonder how Bluefinger or Svn Fngrs could sound if Joey participated in the recording sessions.
Also, there's a good ~20 years between the new and old incarnations of Black Francis. His voice had a character to it that is near impossible to replicate as a man in his 40s. Don't get me wrong - Frank if anything has improved as a singer, but his voice has matured.
There are so many exceptional songs that have been released since the reversion... and, hell, the man can call himself whatever he wants to - but Frank Black often seems to fit better with the new material than Black Francis. |
| pot |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 18:51:30
Admittedly I have been getting into the habit of skipping Half Man lately... |
| Apesy |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 18:01:27
my problem with frank since reverting to francis has nothing to do with the melodies, which have been fine. it's the lyrics: half-baked, forced sex and tough guy stuff. i can't hear, "mary had a little lamb, the shit was pure as snow," without cringing very, very hard. granted this is the same man who once sang, "losing my penis to a whore with disease," and, "oh kiss me cunt," but...i can't explain it. it was more organic to the material then i suppose. now it's so jarring it can just take me right out of a song
-=Apesy |
| pot |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 09:27:04
quote:
Originally posted by markos
quote:
Because you're a fan of Frank Black's stuff more than Black Francis'...?
Well its all the same guy, and i don't read too much into the name change to be honest.
The change back to BF was accompanied by a return to the old indie punk style of his album pre-Catholics and onwards. But you are right, it is not so Black and white.
I was actually really disappointed when he dropped the name Black Francis when he went solo, I thought it was a really cool name but Frank Black just sounded boring. |
| Brank_Flack |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 08:14:36
quote:
Originally posted by pot
I really don't get this idea that svn fngrs is half baked. I tihnk the production on it is really good, and the songs don't sound rushed. I think he put a lot of thought into it's construction.
I agree. It has the most loving production since dog in the sand (though the golem has surpassed it IMO) and, even though it's a mini album, i feel all the songs are strong and consistent. It's one of my most listened frank black albums. When I think half baked i think Devils Workshop or Cult of Ray or Pistolero
|
| markos |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 07:21:21
quote:
Because you're a fan of Frank Black's stuff more than Black Francis'...?
Well its all the same guy, and i don't read too much into the name change to be honest. |
| pot |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 07:03:46
quote:
Originally posted by markos
quote:
I think The Golem is being perceived as wey better than it actually is, and people are just excited about it because it is new.
Why was i not excited at all by Grand Duchy and Svn Fngrs then when they originally came out? And do people seriously rate Svn Fngrs as better than Bluefinger? Fetter and Wtctmm are good and the rest is fine but after about 5 listens i was near done with it.
Golem is well into my 15th-20th listen and is still surprising and exciting to me. The production, songwriting and craftsmanship are well above recent offerings from FB. Sure, people may be gushing about it but why the fuck not? I have not felt this passionate about an album for years. And i think any fans who had begun to lose interest in Frank's work will be drawn right back through The Golem and hopefully NSE.
Because you're a fan of Frank Black's stuff more than Black Francis'...?
If you love this album to bits I'm pleased for you, it just doesn't do much for me.
I really don't get this idea that svn fngrs is half baked. I tihnk the production on it is really good, and the songs don't sound rushed. I think he put a lot of thought into it's construction. |
| velvety |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 05:14:54
Never understood the love for Svn Fngrs. Even the songs that are kind of interesting (Garbage Heap, Seven Fingers) sound rushed and unfinished. Garbage Heap for example, you just have to listen to the end of that song to see that it's half-baked. The other songs, apart from 'I sent away', sound fully formed, but are as boring as the worst moments of the Catholics. C to the D to the G to the Em. Frank does these songs in his sleep.
And SMYT is pretty crappy too. |
| markos |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 04:03:32
quote:
I think The Golem is being perceived as wey better than it actually is, and people are just excited about it because it is new.
Why was i not excited at all by Grand Duchy and Svn Fngrs then when they originally came out? And do people seriously rate Svn Fngrs as better than Bluefinger? Fetter and Wtctmm are good and the rest is fine but after about 5 listens i was near done with it.
Golem is well into my 15th-20th listen and is still surprising and exciting to me. The production, songwriting and craftsmanship are well above recent offerings from FB. Sure, people may be gushing about it but why the fuck not? I have not felt this passionate about an album for years. And i think any fans who had begun to lose interest in Frank's work will be drawn right back through The Golem and hopefully NSE. |
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