| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| edbanky |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 10:51:34
Reading the recently posted IndyMusicScene interview brought out some interesting, unsolicited commentary from Mr. Black. Despite what some of us might allow ourselves to believe (me included), at the end of the day, Frank is really just Charles. Take this lengthy comment:
quote:
. . . with the internet and everything, with people posting their opinions about whatever, on the internet, it’s like everyone is kind of like this expert. “I don’t really like the drum sound on this…” “I don’t…” And it’s great because everyone can just sit back and be an armchair expert on whatever. Start our own magazine online. But it’s great that a lot of people have been able to express themselves. It’s just what I think. It’s the biggest bathroom wall in the universe. But at the same time, people get all fussy and say things like, “Well I don’t think this is his best work…” and it’s just like, come on. I just don’t think that people listened to records like that in 1968. They were just a lot more accepting of the art, as the artist deemed fit. “I don’t like this drum sound.” Or “it’s just to muddy.” I don’t even listen to records like that, and I’m a musician. I might have a thought. “Oh the drums are a little muddy.” But it doesn’t necessarily… it doesn’t ruin the experience for me. I think that… at least when I read the fan sites, of course that are dedicated to me, I take it a little more personally obviously. I really feel like they are just kind of getting too involved in the way that it sounds. They’re just not letting it flow by. I mean it’s rock music. I mean you know… there are some Ramones songs like I can think of like “Beat on the Brat” for example which is so much more lo-fi sounding, than say something from one of their later records that’s a lot more produced or whatever. But I don’t go “Well, their drum sound is a little muddy.” You know what I mean it’s like… it’s rock music. I mean… what’s the vibe? How does it feel? Even my most, in all of the two-track records I made, even my most lo-fi moment, I know is way more high-fi than so many of the things that are out there, valid things that are out there, that even like. It’s just kind of funny with all of the internet things that are out there. I’m just kind of defending myself here.
First, it's interesting because we have yet another indication of the value and impact of this forum. Frank reads our posts. He obviously lurks, and he's obviously interested in our opinions. Still more interesting is that he seems to refer to a specific thread with his mentioning “I don’t like this drum sound” type comments. As of this writing, the thread is atop the Frank Black Making Noise section; so maybe he even read it the morning of the Indy show. Who knows.
So yeah, Charles is a human being, with feelings and impressions and all that. Elementary? Maybe, but sometimes I think I forget.
So reading the article has had the dual effect of making me feel a little bad for being one of those “Well I don’t think this is his best work” guys, and making me want to kinda defend the idea of this hypercriticism.
Maybe the most important point is that the people who become almost anally obsessed with the details of Frank's work are probably his most loyal fans--his base. This obsession might easily describe many of us here--especially those who post and post and post to almost unanimously laud the details. I think an analysis of the critical-type comments in the forum's history would reveal that the less perceptive comments--the ones painted with the widest brush--are more likely to come from individuals whose interest in Frank's music is superficial. This isn't to say one can't find superficial value in his stuff; it's just that the superficial fans are the ones who jump ship when the music doesn't necessarily exhibit that glossy sheen. So, in defense of us fans who hover over microscopes, we're probably his most loyal.
It's almost a microcosm of many Americans' need to find something to complain about. Our country is SO good, and SO fundamentally worth living in, that we almost all take it for granted. It's a flattering mark to have millions upon millions so satisfied and fundamentally stable that they have all this time and energy to devote to criticism--and the right to do so. But, despite how much we might criticize or hyperanalyze our homeland, almost none of use actually try to leave. I believe we stick around because of an unconscious understanding of greatness that has evolved though our experience. Stay with me . . .
With his music, it's a similar thing. If his music wasn't so fundamentally solid--so dense and rich--we wouldn't see the acutely focused comments to which he seems to refer.
So, it's at least partly Frank's fault for being a genius.
Note to Frank:
You can't seriously write lyrics like those of "Valley Of Our Hope," in their complicated, riddle-like precision, and then ask us to not get all fussy about details. Same goes for breaking your voice during the word "just" with the line "chaos is ju-ust a quirk" in "I Think I'm Starting To Lose It" (ok, maybe that was sincerely an accident). You're not allowed to have several napsacks full of transcendent, sound-like-they've-always-been-a-part-of-the-rock-music-canon, masterpieces, like "Robert Onion," for example. Hey, if you can ponder Bob Zubrin's layers, can you really fault us for pondering the layers of your music?
On the other hand, I understand that the recording is just a highly accessible medium for presenting the art of the song. I get the impression that Frank's philosophy is "I have these songs I have written, and I want to exhibit them to the world (or my fans), so let's get some guy in here with a tape recorder." In other words, the medium is NOT the message to Frank. In some respect, the albums are almost like advertisements for the live performances. They're saying "Hey check out this set of songs that I have added to my lexicon; come out to my show and listen to me perform some of them." From this perspective, it isn't necessarily as important HOW the songs are introduced, but THAT they are.
Derek doesn't have tablature to account for how the drums sound, or the level of the left-side acoustic guitar in the mix. What matters to Frank, I am guessing, is conveying the essence of the song as written. So, I see his point.
One question: Does Frank ever sit there and allow himself to realize how necessary--how integral--he is to rock music? I mean, do you think he is aware of his own greatness? Or would that maybe pop the balloon? I know he wouldn't ever say, "Yeah man, I realize that I am one of those figures in rock. I am an essential icon and my unsurpassed talent is awe-inspiring." I think there's more to it than "Lot's of people tell you that you're influential." I'm talking about losing the indie rock context, or any notion of popularity or influence. I am referring to the omnipresent truth of his greatness. Do you think he knows?
Frank, please comment if you have a moment.
Due to my present condition and predicaments of being a crippled as a result of the fatal accident that I had, I am not able to carry out this contract because I can only walk on a wheel chair. |
| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| vilainde |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 01:54:35
quote:
Originally posted by speedy_m
My appreciation of Frank's music generally increases dramatically when I dissect and analyse it. "Ana" is a simple tune with a beautiful melody that, for no reason whatsoever, changes key for the second verse. Before learning to play it, I had no idea. Perhaps a better trained ear could spot it just giving it a cursory listen, but it was only upon learning to play it (in essence, dissecting it's musical structure) that I began to appreciate it. He does something similar on The Swimmer (this time with major/minor variations). This is a man whose music rewards intense scrutiny.
Same thing with Don't Cry That Way. You think it's a basic verse-chorus-verse song, but the chords in the 3 verses are slightly different. Add an Fm here, put an F instead of a C there. I'd never have noticed from listening to the song, just like the chord change in Ana. I'm no expert in guitar playing but there are a bunch of FB songs I've started to love by trying to play them (Valentine + Garuda for instance).
Denis
|
| Carl |
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 16:17:44
Frank is an alien. I thought everyone knew that by now!
 |
| anazgnos |
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 12:38:49
I don't know...certainly the internet encourages that kind of hyper-anlytical stuff, but I think some people just are that way. Frank's just saying he doesn't really relate to it, I think, which is cool. I certainly think people were that analytical in the '60's...it brings to mind that legendary Bob Dylan press conference from '65, where this super-intense young guy stands up and asks Bob about his reasons for wearing a Triumph Motorcycle shirt on the cover of Highway 61 Revisisted...Bob just kind of laughs and says he hadn't really thought about it...the guy, eyes practically bulging out of his head says "I've thought about it a lot.". He's like, convinced that there's this vast sociopolitical treatise on the death of the American dream embedded in the shirt Bob wore on this album cover, and he's desperate for validation on it...it's funny. That kinda stuff bugs me, the hyper-fannish need for validation, but then, I do it to. It's rock music...of course people are gonna overanalyze. |
| Carl |
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 11:32:21
LOL indeed.
|
| ScottP |
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 11:18:54
Lab coats are great boner hiders. |
| Newo |
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 04:50:01
quote:
starmekitten Posted - 08/21/2006 : 01:02:07
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Science is never annoying. Science is fun.
depends on who´s doing the sciencing, just as with any other language.
--
Gravy boat! Stay in the now! |
| Broken Face |
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 04:49:12
'Cep when lecherous men in lab coats grab your friends' ass during chem experiments. Then its just creepy.
-Brian - http://bvsrant.blogspot.com |
| starmekitten |
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 01:02:07
Science is never annoying. Science is fun. |
| tisasawath |
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 00:40:23
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Radcliffe
IMO this is just what happens when you get a bunch of good literate people together to discuss something. Frank might get a little weird on how we may disassemble his music... but he still appreciates it.
it can also get annoying, with interviewers asking questions like "How do you come up with these songs? What is your writing process like?"... kinda makes me understand more the Church's position towards science trying to explain the big bang right down to time/space zero. though I can see the difference between scientific and just annoying
-----
AAAAWWWWWRRRIIGGHHTTTTT !! ! |
| Billy Radcliffe |
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 09:27:02
On a different side of the same subject, i think Frank is really lucky to have a bunch of real good literate people like all of you who will tear apart his music bit by bit. This is Frank. Real good literate people. Because of the little 10 cent words he uses, he has a more literate following than most. Can't you all see... this was HIS trait originally.
For those of us who don't play music... He has given you alot of intelligence. good music to appreciate, ALOT of good music to appreciate. For those of us who do play, it doesn't end there. there are little things in the formation of his music that say "See, that's how THIS fits together" I am a smarter musician now, and I owe that directly not to Frank, but to Frank's mind.
I met frank once in a little toilet of a club called the Beachland Ballroom, he pushed his own equipment in. He put on a fantastic show as usual and then he took the time to talk to all of us for an hour and a half. He gave me a big bear hug. He appreciates us for appreciating him. He appreciates us for wanting to know how things work. Literate people want to know how things work. Frank wants to know how things work.
IMO this is just what happens when you get a bunch of good literate people together to discuss something. Frank might get a little weird on how we may disassemble his music... but he still appreciates it.
At the end of the day we are all real people. Except Marilyn Manson, of course, who has built his career out of being fake. I wonder how MM's fans and Frank's fans might get along btogether, because listen to MM's music. he is in NO WAY as literate as Frank, or us for that matter. And you know what. The bass may indeed be a little muddy, but apart from re recording and re releasing it, it's what we're stuck with. If it stands the test of time, in 20 years nobody will even care how muddy it sounds, it will just be assumed that that's how it was meant to sound
I could talk myself to death, but I believe I would only waste my breath. |
| darwin |
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 00:44:17
Yes jimmy, it's me. Put down the pipe. |
| jimmy |
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 00:24:28
Posted by darwin:
"...my job is understanding the behavior of animals and the ecological consequences of their behaviors."
It really is you! You've gotta be over a hundred years old. I thought you were dead. |
| see you in tea |
Posted - 08/19/2006 : 23:02:27
Morrissey sounds like Kermit the Frog. Also, he is a pompous dandy fop. I'm not sure about the Internet being the biggest bathroom wall in the Universe. The bathroom walls at my old place of work didn't have giant archives of Noam Chomsky's writings, and I have yet to see anyone write "pusy" 37 times on the Internet. |
| kathryn |
Posted - 08/19/2006 : 22:06:38
Great thread.
Frank's probably not the first to call the internet "the biggest bathroom wall in the universe" but it's the first time I heard it being called that and yet again shows how astute he is.
Now kittie, stop trashing my Moz.
I’m the only one who can say that this light is mine
|
| beckett trance |
Posted - 08/19/2006 : 14:54:29
quote:
Originally posted by ScottP
Yay for the fact that great songs come from unexplainable places.
I once had a week to create and record some original music for an art opening (some really creepy airbrush art inspired by the artist who created the creature in Alien). My friend and I essentially locked ourselves in a room for the week and recorded what boiled down to about an hour of music.
Now, the gear we had was basically crap. I loved that gear, but it was light years behind what we would have used in even a semi-pro studio. We had no sampler at all, but improvised with the inconsistent A-B loop function on my old CD player. We would drop a needle on a record with a mic being held up near the speaker, hoping it would land on the right spot and at the right time on the cassette four-track. This was back when nobody was using a home PC for music.
Needless to say, the whole operation was shoddy. But my friend and I loved what came out of that crazy week (we might be the only two people on earth who did). The thing that we found the most interesting was that some of the parts we liked the best on the recording were directly the result of the overwhelming limitations. There was no way some of the things that happened musically would have been on there if we had real equipment to work with.
But it was a fun week and I learned a lot from it. I remember reading once that Hendrix remarked that he's been copied so well that people have memorized how to play his mistakes.
_______________________________________
** feeling deluxe for just a couple of bucks ** |
| ScottP |
Posted - 08/19/2006 : 10:35:50
Yay for the fact that great songs come from unexplainable places. Perhaps it's life experiences and a unique human interpretation of them- either way, Microsoft can't make software to write great songs. Gigantic record companies can't buy up all the best players and expect to have great songs. Otherwise, whoever had the most money would have the best songs.
"Hey, did you hear that new Texaco Oil Inc. song yet?" Uhg. |
| Bartholomew |
Posted - 08/19/2006 : 09:19:50
quote:
Originally posted by ScottP
I must find out how he does it. I must find out what his creator and the engineers were thinking when they put him together, hypothesize an origin, and completely dismantle him in my garage.
The only problem with this type of thinking is when I put him back together, place him back in the yard, and switch him back on, the mystery is gone. He doesn't seem so remarkable anymore. He's just another dancing robot. I understand this is unhealthy, but there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. I simply must know how things work!
I argue that you can disect a song -- now, I'm talking about the great great songs -- all you want but you can never truly understand what makes it work so well. Take Debaser for example. Strip it down to its parts and study how they're put together. Okay, fine. Now, write me a song just as good.
I argue that great songs are more than the sum of their parts. It's not the chords you use, it's what you do with those chords. Look at the Ramones, look at Will Oldham. These songs transcend musical ability. I argue there is no formula to the great songs, it's beyond that, to a place that science thankfully cannot yet explain. What fun would the world be if everything was already figured out? |
| tisasawath |
Posted - 08/19/2006 : 02:17:03
quote:
Originally posted by darwin
I think natural systems and animal behavior becomes more amazing the more you know. I suppose the same applies to music. People with music knowledge can appreciate the uniqueness and cleverness of songs/compositions more than us (me) with no muscial knowledge.
I agree with the first part. I was totally in awe after learning what an unbeliavably complex system a human (or any other living) body or even just one of its organs is, it amazes me that it even works, and works so beautifully and efficiently. I am reminded of the fact from time to time and feel the sentiment again. Probably because seeing people or animals all around every day move and function just the way they usually do I forget to appreciate the intricacy and the beauty of their design.
Back to muddy drums (there's a name for a band); I can only make such comments when for instance I hear a live version of a song that is very different and better compared to the studio version.
For me it's the reverb. I sometimes catch myself being more sympathetic to a song on the radio just because it has the vocals more in the background and heavy on reverb.
-----
AAAAWWWWWRRRIIGGHHTTTTT !! ! |
| speedy_m |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 15:30:30
My appreciation of Frank's music generally increases dramatically when I dissect and analyse it. "Ana" is a simple tune with a beautiful melody that, for no reason whatsoever, changes key for the second verse. Before learning to play it, I had no idea. Perhaps a better trained ear could spot it just giving it a cursory listen, but it was only upon learning to play it (in essence, dissecting it's musical structure) that I began to appreciate it. He does something similar on The Swimmer (this time with major/minor variations). This is a man whose music rewards intense scrutiny.
I'm afraid I have to disagree with Frank; saying the drums are too muddy is fair game. I can love a song and think the drums are not recorded in spectacular fashion. I can also love a song and be blown away by the drum sound. Does the former detract from my full experience and love of the song? I don't know: record the drums better and let me hear it.
he's back jack smoking crack find him if you want to get found
|
| ScottP |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 14:58:28
I'd like to use up this tiny bit of hyberspace to tell Frank that my interest in sound should in no way get confused with me not respecting his obvious talent as a great songwriter/performer.
Anybody can get a sound. Damn precious few can write great songs.
I'm a DIY'er. I have to ask questions.
Bartholomew said the need to dissect a song is built-in, a left/right brain trait. I believe that to be entirely true. Here's an example of how my brain works when I hear a great new song- I'll substitute the song for a shiny, dancing robot:
One summer afternoon a two foot tall, beautifully chromed, dancing android shows up in my front yard. It articulates modern dance moves as little beeps and buzzes eminate perfectly coordinated to each step. I am perfectly satified watching the little robot dance all over my yard for a week. Then something happens. I must find out how he does it. I must find out what his creator and the engineers were thinking when they put him together, hypothesize an origin, and completely dismantle him in my garage.
The only problem with this type of thinking is when I put him back together, place him back in the yard, and switch him back on, the mystery is gone. He doesn't seem so remarkable anymore. He's just another dancing robot. I understand this is unhealthy, but there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. I simply must know how things work! |
| hammerhands |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 13:25:24
FB holds up very well under the musical microscope even if the sound engineering isn't always perfect. It comes up in the original quote that you can hear through static.
A great musician is in possession of a great mind. |
| darwin |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 11:39:07
This is totally out of place, but my job is understanding the behavior of animals and the ecological consequences of their behaviors. I somewhat regularly hear the refrain that science takes the mystery and thus the beauty out of nature. I wholeheartedly disagree with that notion. I think natural systems and animal behavior becomes more amazing the more you know. I suppose the same applies to music. People with music knowledge can appreciate the uniqueness and cleverness of songs/compositions more than us (me) with no muscial knowledge. |
| beckett trance |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 11:06:01
Living out in Hollywood with "industry" roommates, there were times when I was really enjoying a flick when they all started mocking the color scheme on the set or something like that. I felt bad for them.
_______________________________________
** feeling deluxe for just a couple of bucks ** |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 10:53:27
The idea of understanding decreasing the amount something is appreciated is interesting. For me, and I'd never really thought about this, the appreciation changes from one form to another. Now it's not so much that I think, "Wow, that's cool, how'd they do that" as it is "Wow, this is cool, someone really hit the nail on the head writing this". Not that I don't appreciate the sound of it, but playing it out makes me think of things I might've written in their place, and when everything I come up with sounds inferior to the band's version, then I'm impressed. Not because I'm some sort of amazing player (far from), but because their talents are obviously better than mine when it comes to hearing what's needed for that particular song.
 "No man remains quite what he was when he recognizes himself." |
| Erebus |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 10:26:01
quote:
Originally posted by edbanky
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
Thanks for the post and topic Ed. Though I took no offense whatsoever, I'm afraid I have to number myself among the fans who are incapable of approaching music analytically or reductively, though I try to approach things that way when I can. With music I am forced to go the holistic route because I lack the faculties for doing otherwise. Same is true of art more generally: some of us don't know jack about art but simply know what we like.
A common theme in how I think about music is my regret at having gotten into learning to play music. But, I also think I would probably be less happy if I had never picked up the guitar. The regret comes from my becoming too intimate with the nuts and bolts behind the magic. I remember several moments at which I realized how simple a favorite part of some piece of music was to actually play myself.
An old friend once expressed envy for me because I appreciated music in ignorance of the "nuts and bolts", just as I envy those who see within what is going on. I will say my musical limits have made me more empathetic toward those who are not as analytical as I am on a small set of topics. I've had my opportunities to learn more about the science of music but I tend to be lazy with things that don't come naturally.
|
| tisasawath |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 07:21:46
quote:
Originally posted by edbanky
It's hard to explain, but I think from the very first time I realized that I could duplicate the "Pride In The Name Of Love" riff with the right pedal effect, for instance, I lost a big chunk of the awe I had possessed prior to that moment. Not that I don't now have a new respect for the creativity and innate musicality behind the most simple conventions in rock music; it just doesn't compare to not really knowing how it was happening.
yeah, i've felt this way too, feeling good because you can play something great but then again it doesn't seem that great anymore....
maybe because the technical requirements aren't enough without the attitude, the emotion, the whoknowswhat, channeled through the instruments.
-----
AAAAWWWWWRRRIIGGHHTTTTT !! ! |
| IceManCometh |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 22:42:22
I'm a little surprised by some of these comments---including FB's in the interview. I rarely read these interviews anymore, since they seem more or less the same, but this time I did, perhaps because it was "raw" and "unedited." And the comments about the criticism caught me off guard, chiefly because he seems for the most part pragmatic about his craft: it's a product. He's an entertainer. That's it. He either gives people what they want or he doesn't. People buy the product, and they're going to comment about it, the same way you comment about buying a latte at your favorite coffee shop. Maybe it was overbrewed on a particular day, maybe on another it was served lukewarm or watery. If this is the case, then people are going to say, "Hey, this coffee ain't that great today. What the hell is up with that? It's usually terrific."
Point is: you put something out there, and people are going to talk. That's one of the prices you pay as an artist. They're going to analyze if they are a fan---that's the lingua franca, so to speak.
On the other hand, I can see why this is frustrating to the artist. When I put something out there---I'm a "writer"---and people comment, it rankles me, but on a rational level, you have to be prepared. They're going to talk. That's the nature of the game. Just be glad people are paying attention. Never mind if they're bitching about the drums, the amount of milk in the coffee, your verb use: be thankful, they're talking.
Many artist in the past have succumbed to this self-consciousness. They couldn't take the criticism. The first example that springs immediately to mind is J.D. Salinger. He absolutely despised some of the things people were saying about him in the press, and as a result he silenced himself. A pity, since for every one sour-voiced critic there were probably ten ardent fans.
Long story short: people talk about art and product, even if it's just pop music. You shouldn't find this surprising. And it's the nature of the fan to "overanalyze;" "fan" implies that they're paying more attention than everybody else.
My two cents. |
| IceCream |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 22:19:57
Guided By Voices - Alien Lanes.
Yeah, the drums are a little muddy. The fact that they have so many fans regardless is in indication that there are some people out there who listen to music the way most people did in 1968. |
| edbanky |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 22:00:59
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
Thanks for the post and topic Ed. Though I took no offense whatsoever, I'm afraid I have to number myself among the fans who are incapable of approaching music analytically or reductively, though I try to approach things that way when I can. With music I am forced to go the holistic route because I lack the faculties for doing otherwise. Same is true of art more generally: some of us don't know jack about art but simply know what we like.
A common theme in how I think about music is my regret at having gotten into learning to play music. But, I also think I would probably be less happy if I had never picked up the guitar. The regret comes from my becoming too intimate with the nuts and bolts behind the magic. I remember several moments at which I realized how simple a favorite part of some piece of music was to actually play myself.
It's hard to explain, but I think from the very first time I realized that I could duplicate the "Pride In The Name Of Love" riff with the right pedal effect, for instance, I lost a big chunk of the awe I had possessed prior to that moment. Not that I don't now have a new respect for the creativity and innate musicality behind the most simple conventions in rock music; it just doesn't compare to not really knowing how it was happening.
Go ahead and laugh, but an early big smack in the head for me was at my first concert in 1987. There they were, the guys from Depeche Mode, absently standing behind a trio of keyboards, where I was expecting a couple guitars, some drums and some serious sweat. It sounds ridiculous, but my complete lack of understanding of how music was made had left me making such a goofy assumption.
It took awhile after picking up a guitar in college for me to start realizing the benefits that came at the expense of the wonderment I used to have. So now I'm left with those, and plagued by this unrelenting "need" to hyperanalyze.
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
Because I am self-conscious of this deficiency, I used to think that musicians must be more intelligent than average, but since then I've met a few musicians who disabused me of that prejudice.
However, this statement makes me wonder if perhaps I would have lost this general innocence that had me awestruck by everything musical anyway. At some point, you at least realized that musicians weren't god-like. Maybe I can comfort myself with the likelihood that I might've ended up here anyway.
Due to my present condition and predicaments of being a crippled as a result of the fatal accident that I had, I am not able to carry out this contract because I can only walk on a wheel chair. |
| Bartholomew |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 11:50:31
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
Thanks for the post and topic Ed. Though I took no offense whatsoever, I'm afraid I have to number myself among the fans who are incapable of approaching music analytically or reductively, though I try to approach things that way when I can. With music I am forced to go the holistic route because I lack the faculties for doing otherwise. Same is true of art more generally: some of us don't know jack about art but simply know what we like.
Because I am self-conscious of this deficiency, I used to think that musicians must be more intelligent than average, but since then I've met a few musicians who disabused me of that prejudice.
I don't think our problem with analysis of art has anything to do with intelligence. I think it has more to do with one's inner skull wiring than anything else, right-brained or left-brained kind of thing. I also believe (though it's possible I'm a bit defensive about this subject since I'm pretty much an analytical retard) that the way our thoughts work are a boon and not a bane. Great art almost always comes from more of a subconscious place than the conscious. This explains why most of the masters of their art forms never went to school and studied music or writing or whatever it is they became great at. What I'm trying to say, Erebus, is that I think you and I are going to become very famous soon. |
| starmekitten |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 11:11:27
quote:
Originally posted by edbanky
Exactly. I forget. Has Moz finally hied himself back to Manchester, or is he still basking in the glow of the southern California, United States of America, sun?
Who knows, Moz is a total whore. But you get my point... I hope. |
| Carl |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 10:43:16
Yeah, Frank is an idiot!
 |
| darwin |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 10:37:51
So now you're calling Frank stupid? Nice. |
| Erebus |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 10:31:07
Thanks for the post and topic Ed. Though I took no offense whatsoever, I'm afraid I have to number myself among the fans who are incapable of approaching music analytically or reductively, though I try to approach things that way when I can. With music I am forced to go the holistic route because I lack the faculties for doing otherwise. Same is true of art more generally: some of us don't know jack about art but simply know what we like.
Because I am self-conscious of this deficiency, I used to think that musicians must be more intelligent than average, but since then I've met a few musicians who disabused me of that prejudice.
|
| Bartholomew |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 09:25:22
I think I understand what you're saying, Ed. I think me and you just listen in different ways. I obsess over songs on more of a subconscious level -- letting the cumulative effect of the music and words take me somewhere else in a dreamy sort of way, not focusing on specific parts so much or specific words even. Sounds like you're a bit more analytical in your approach. [sings: "Ebony and ivory..."] |
|
|
