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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *

1228 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2023 :  14:46:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

Dance War rules and I will take anything from Cult of Ray over the Dalgety Pixies stuff.



We are at very opposite ends of the spectrum, light years apart. Hooray for diverse FB fans!
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *

1228 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2023 :  14:58:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Except I do agree that it appears Dalgety has too much influence on the song selection. I would have dropped Graveyard Hill and Catfish Kate on BTE and swapped them with a fully worked Chapel Hill and Mal de Mer say. Ditto Vault of Heaven and Dregs of the Wine on Doggerel for something from the rest of the 40 demos.

But I have no problem at all with a Doggerel Part 2 type record. I'd see it in the After the Goldrush -> Harvest Neil Young kind of vein.
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
819 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2023 :  23:26:01  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
At the very least, from what we've gathered from the aborted Wales session it seems that Tom was trying to push the band in a more experimental direction which frustrated Charles who wanted to draw from the pile of demos that weren't recorded for Doggerel.



Can you refresh my memory about this?
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =

Canada
912 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2023 :  08:06:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
At the very least, from what we've gathered from the aborted Wales session it seems that Tom was trying to push the band in a more experimental direction which frustrated Charles who wanted to draw from the pile of demos that weren't recorded for Doggerel.



Can you refresh my memory about this?



From billgoodman's helpful post at the beginning of the thread:

- Session in Wales didn't go that well, acording to FBF in Ultimate Music Guide :
"I was not in a good mood for lots of reasons"
I was very frustrated because now Mr Fucking Producer wants to work on all the fucking artsy-fartsy scraps from the margin. I got all these 40 fucking songs I wrote, for once in my life I do my homework............Now I show up with the goods and they're like [] these werid little things that you didn't intend over here bla bla
[ ]
I threw my notebook on top of the roof [..] I threw about three temper tantrums in about eight days

Edited by - Brank_Flack on 11/12/2023 08:06:42
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *

1228 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2023 :  08:52:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's an album podcast I wouldn't mind hearing.
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
819 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2023 :  20:29:09  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sprite
Ditto Vault of Heaven and Dregs of the Wine on Doggerel for something from the rest of the 40 demos.




Dregs is like the only real Pixies sounding song on the entire past few albums. Really the only track on the album I have no issues with.
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =

Canada
912 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2023 :  07:14:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sprite

Except I do agree that it appears Dalgety has too much influence on the song selection. I would have dropped Graveyard Hill and Catfish Kate on BTE and swapped them with a fully worked Chapel Hill and Mal de Mer say. Ditto Vault of Heaven and Dregs of the Wine on Doggerel for something from the rest of the 40 demos.

But I have no problem at all with a Doggerel Part 2 type record. I'd see it in the After the Goldrush -> Harvest Neil Young kind of vein.



Fair enough, but I don't think many producers would have taken Graveyard Hill or Catfish Kate off the record - I don't think this was a Tom quirk. (I should add that I think Catfish Kate, and particularly the chorus is fantastic. As per Graveyard Hill, I love the verses but like many others find the chorus bland.)

Edited by - Brank_Flack on 11/13/2023 08:59:15
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
819 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2023 :  08:26:40  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
Fair enough, but I don't think many producers would have taken Graveyard Hill or Catfish Kate off the record - I don't think this was a Tom quirk. (I should add that I think Catfish Kate, and particularly the chorus is fantastic. As per Graveyard Hill, I love the versus but like many others find the chorus bland.)




Opposite here: the verses to Catfish are bland to me but I love the chorus. It's also one of my wife's favorite songs.

When a band I like starts to lose their way, this is what happens: I don't just like or love songs but only PARTS of songs. There's few new Pixies songs where all the way through I'm totally down with everything going on, except for on that BTE bonus album.
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
1078 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2023 :  13:29:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What I dislike about the Dalgety produced albums are the over elaborate intros like on Might as Well be Gone, Catfish Kate and Haunted House there's no need. I'm sure it's a Dalgety thing.
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =

962 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2023 :  13:33:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There's a massive chunk in the middle of BTE I would have scrapped entirely for a few of the demos. But then maybe I wouldn't have liked the demos polished up and more than likely Pixies-ified.
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
1291 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2023 :  14:14:03  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

For those who don't like Dalgety (I'm ambivalent myself) is there a producer whose name you could through in to the mix?



How about someone like him? Someone who can sit back and let Frank go nuts and not second guess stuff too much or try to turn every song into a hit single or something?p



I think Charles was in a REALLY different headspace during the Finger era. He was super energized and really getting after it. That tour where he didnít play guitar for example. I think those records and that era reflects where he was creatively and in life in general. He was desperately to get Kim on board for new Pixies, so he was putting a lot of energy into that, and probably frustration fueled some of the power of that music too. He, and they, have settled into a comfy groove at this point. Bluefinger was a long time ago now. Crazy how time flies.


I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <

2966 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2023 :  14:23:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stevio10

What I dislike about the Dalgety produced albums are the over elaborate intros like on Might as Well be Gone, Catfish Kate and Haunted House there's no need. I'm sure it's a Dalgety thing.




I think about these intros too and wonder if they were going for something like on Places Named After Numbers or Selkie Bride where it really works well. The intro on Might as Well be Gone is insane to me, and not in a good way. I dig the one on Haunted House but could live without it. Can't imagine Numbers or Bride without their intros. Probably leaving out other examples.
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
819 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2023 :  10:23:19  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Such difference of opinions here. Fun intros to songs don't bother me in the slightest. That is classic Pixies to me, weird unpredictable song construction. I love a good intro. What's the exact issue with this?
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =

Canada
912 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2023 :  16:56:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, the song intros do not seem like anything out of the ordinary to me, and perhaps evidence that we're overthinking things a bit, haha.
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
819 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2023 :  23:19:14  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I thought I was being nitpicky about Dalgety but I seriously don't even understand what there is to complain about a 10 second song introduction, something not at all unusual for the band on any album. Does the intro to Monkey Gone To Heaven bother you? Or the intro to River Euphrates? Or Letter To Memphis? What am I missing here.
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
1078 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2023 :  04:38:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
On the whole I like pretty much all the intros from the non Dalgety produced albums.

I just find the Dalgety ones (not all of them) kind of tacked on - Catfish Kate eg - the intro doesn't make the song any better imho - I would prefer they used more of Joey's wailing guitar part as the intro.

It's like an afterthought - as if someone was challenged with what would make the song better, or even just a little bit longer...someone pipes up 'I know, a catchy intro!'

Maybe it's not even Dalgety. But I remember from the It's a Pixies Podcast his influence on the intro In the Arms of Mrs Mark of Cain.
I like that intro despite it almost falling into James Bond territory - it's close to not working.

Which is where Might as Well be Gone doesn't work, that intro hits me hard - why put something that makes me hear The Logical Song on a Pixies intro (sad face).

Maybe it is nitpicking, I should maybe look at it as Dalgety helping them try something different.
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <

2966 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2023 :  13:32:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

I thought I was being nitpicky about Dalgety but I seriously don't even understand what there is to complain about a 10 second song introduction, something not at all unusual for the band on any album. Does the intro to Monkey Gone To Heaven bother you? Or the intro to River Euphrates? Or Letter To Memphis? What am I missing here.



I think some intros are better than others. That's where I'm coming from.
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
819 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2023 :  09:05:11  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My own songwriting is so bare bones, I actually feel like my stuff NEEDS intros and things like that because I always like that kind of thing in other songs. I just never think of songwriting that way, like "here's this part and then you need this part" (even though my stuff generally comes out as standard pop song structure, of course.)

I actually had to create an instrumental bridge in one song out of nowhere on my album because a friend of mine criticized it saying he wishes it wasn't just me singing again and again and he wanted to "zone out." It was like, oh, a part where I'm not singing, why didn't I think of that?

The XTC trick is to turn bridges into intros. So then when the bridge comes back around, you subconsciously feel as if it is familiar to you. Andy Partridge has done this in a number of songs. It's a great trick! They did it on their song Disappointed, and it really creates the entire pop hook for the whole song.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
6014 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2023 :  10:28:24  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

I thought I was being nitpicky about Dalgety but I seriously don't even understand what there is to complain about a 10 second song introduction, something not at all unusual for the band on any album. Does the intro to Monkey Gone To Heaven bother you? Or the intro to River Euphrates? Or Letter To Memphis? What am I missing here.



I think some intros are better than others. That's where I'm coming from.



Yeah, that's how it works for me too

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *

1228 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2023 :  14:01:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

My own songwriting is so bare bones, I actually feel like my stuff NEEDS intros and things like that because I always like that kind of thing in other songs. I just never think of songwriting that way, like "here's this part and then you need this part" (even though my stuff generally comes out as standard pop song structure, of course.)

I actually had to create an instrumental bridge in one song out of nowhere on my album because a friend of mine criticized it saying he wishes it wasn't just me singing again and again and he wanted to "zone out." It was like, oh, a part where I'm not singing, why didn't I think of that?

The XTC trick is to turn bridges into intros. So then when the bridge comes back around, you subconsciously feel as if it is familiar to you. Andy Partridge has done this in a number of songs. It's a great trick! They did it on their song Disappointed, and it really creates the entire pop hook for the whole song.



Andy Partridge is a stone cold genius.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
6014 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2023 :  23:21:01  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

My own songwriting is so bare bones, I actually feel like my stuff NEEDS intros and things like that because I always like that kind of thing in other songs. I just never think of songwriting that way, like "here's this part and then you need this part" (even though my stuff generally comes out as standard pop song structure, of course.)

I actually had to create an instrumental bridge in one song out of nowhere on my album because a friend of mine criticized it saying he wishes it wasn't just me singing again and again and he wanted to "zone out." It was like, oh, a part where I'm not singing, why didn't I think of that?

The XTC trick is to turn bridges into intros. So then when the bridge comes back around, you subconsciously feel as if it is familiar to you. Andy Partridge has done this in a number of songs. It's a great trick! They did it on their song Disappointed, and it really creates the entire pop hook for the whole song.



Weezer's Green Album is like that too. It was a formula, which kinda irks me the wrong way. But a great trick nonetheless

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
819 Posts

Posted - 11/20/2023 :  07:50:44  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman

Weezer's Green Album is like that too. It was a formula, which kinda irks me the wrong way. But a great trick nonetheless




Well the Green album is incredibly lazy. The thing that me and my friend used to make fun of is that every single guitar solo is just the melody of the song with no variation or creativity or energy or anything. We scrolled through every track just laughing at how shitty it was. Compare that to the blazing crazy instrumental sections on Pinkerton or the first album.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
6014 Posts

Posted - 11/20/2023 :  10:29:59  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman

Weezer's Green Album is like that too. It was a formula, which kinda irks me the wrong way. But a great trick nonetheless




Well the Green album is incredibly lazy. The thing that me and my friend used to make fun of is that every single guitar solo is just the melody of the song with no variation or creativity or energy or anything. We scrolled through every track just laughing at how shitty it was. Compare that to the blazing crazy instrumental sections on Pinkerton or the first album.



It was a big finger to both the fans of Pinkerton and the critics that hated Pinkerton. Thanks a lot, rock journalists!

Green was simple by design. Rivers worked his ass off in the years before those sessions. He demoed hundreds of songs and guess what: all feature those vocal melody solo's.

It sounds lazy I agree, but when Cuomo issued those demo's during everything just made sense to me.

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
6014 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2024 :  05:55:26  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Updated the first post with:

- October 2023: Pixies record a new session with Tom Dalgety at Guilford Sounds, same place were Doggerel was recorded

- Paz leaves the band in march 2024


There are likely to be quite a lot of songs with Paz in the can

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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yarbles
= Cult of Ray =

USA
577 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2024 :  03:55:42  Show Profile  Visit yarbles's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:

- October 2023: Pixies record a new session with Tom Dalgety at Guilford Sounds, same place were Doggerel was recorded

- Paz leaves the band in march 2024


There are likely to be quite a lot of songs with Paz in the can




I really wonder what's going to happen with these songs now. Release them with Paz's parts on them? Delete her parts and re-record them with new bass player?
Scrap the whole thing and try again next year?

Really strange predicament
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
6014 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2024 :  04:15:45  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I'm very curious! We also know there are a lot IC session-songs
I do think Pixies aren't interested in releasing everything they have


---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =

USA
851 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2024 :  04:31:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by yarbles

quote:

- October 2023: Pixies record a new session with Tom Dalgety at Guilford Sounds, same place were Doggerel was recorded

- Paz leaves the band in march 2024


There are likely to be quite a lot of songs with Paz in the can




I really wonder what's going to happen with these songs now. Release them with Paz's parts on them? Delete her parts and re-record them with new bass player?
Scrap the whole thing and try again next year?

Really strange predicament



Yeah big questions there. I think we were all gearing up as fans for a new album cycle starting middle of this year but now it may be awhile, if it all. But hey, maybe theyíll surprise again and say theyíve recorded new music with the new bassist already and are waiting for fans to get used to her on your first before announcing? Guess anything is possible at this point.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
6014 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2024 :  04:57:35  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
A new bassist would only need a couple of days to replace bass lines, but Pixies tend to record live you know

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =

USA
851 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2024 :  05:18:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman

A new bassist would only need a couple of days to replace bass lines, but Pixies tend to record live you know

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?



Yeah, who knows whether theyíve even recorded anything with her or just practiced for the tour only the past few weeks and called it good. I only hope for new music as soon as possible, as thatís what excites me most. Realistically itíll probably be a bit before that happens now.
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3909 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2024 :  05:30:19  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It was Paz who posted on social media about the location of the studio so I think itís fair to assume she was there
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =

USA
851 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2024 :  05:37:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pot

It was Paz who posted on social media about the location of the studio so I think itís fair to assume she was there



Thatís not what we are talking about. We know she was there but whether they keep whatever music they worked on with her now that she is out is up in the air.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
6014 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2024 :  06:35:38  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I would be surprised if they weren't there to record an album. But who knows...

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =

962 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2024 :  11:03:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Should get Jeremy Dubs back and re-do any vocals - I would argue it would make the songs better
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =

Canada
912 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2024 :  11:34:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Maharal

Should get Jeremy Dubs back and re-do any vocals - I would argue it would make the songs better



Hard disagree - the interplay between the masculine and feminine is the Pixies' secret sauce.
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =

962 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2024 :  13:24:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
He had most people fooled on Bagboy tbf
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