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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *

1225 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2023 :  13:26:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yippee ay yay! Great find picpic!
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =

Canada
910 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2023 :  17:16:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fantastic! Are we guessing they're recording in New England?

Presuming this comes out next summer (or the usual September), I'm glad that we're not looking at another 3 year gap!
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =

USA
851 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2023 :  20:17:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack

Fantastic! Are we guessing they're recording in New England?

Presuming this comes out next summer (or the usual September), I'm glad that we're not looking at another 3 year gap!



Itís the guest house at Guilford Sound in Vermont. Same place they recorded Doggerel. Good news that they are wrapping already. Iíd say late Spring/Early Summer maybe, if things go well?

Edited by - natenate101 on 10/25/2023 20:19:05
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
815 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2023 :  23:07:05  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
New producer, maybe? Probably not if it's the same studio.
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TheScooper
- FB Fan -

USA
176 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2023 :  20:57:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

New producer, maybe? Probably not if it's the same studio.



We can only dream of this, don't think it'll ever come true
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1872 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2023 :  10:00:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sprite

Yippee ay yay! Great find picpic!


Well, Pot was first http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=34508
Very exciting news indeed !

___
"Service Unavailable"
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3909 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2023 :  12:59:09  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'd have just posted it in here but I forgot about this thread
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TheScooper
- FB Fan -

USA
176 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2023 :  19:18:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tom confirmed to be producer, tragically.

On Paz's delightful new Instagram post about a tiny new collaborator

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cy92A22ris7/
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
815 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2023 :  09:22:13  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheScooper

Tom confirmed to be producer, tragically.

On Paz's delightful new Instagram post about a tiny new collaborator

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cy92A22ris7/




I never read that post because I am repulsed by insects and hate when my Instagram friends/people I follow post huge closeups of them, which happens more often than you might think.

I am disappointed Tom is the producer again. I am dying for a shakeup with the Pixies current sound.
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =

960 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2023 :  12:31:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, overdue.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
6009 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2023 :  05:50:34  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I like the BTE-sound so much that I'm not at all disappointed.

That being said Doggerel and HC had lot's of head scratching moments for me, production wise.

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =

USA
851 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2023 :  07:30:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Itís not even about the production for me, but the input on song selection that Dalgety has that bothers me. Personally what he seems to want out of a Pixies song isnít what Iím looking for. Feel like BF needs to be challenged a bit more in terms of his lyrics and songwriting in general. I know that man is a genius but that doesnít mean everything he puts out is gold. Some of the writing he did on Doggerel was bland as hell. I always liked him because of the quirky stuff heíd say that no one else was saying. Now he is like a mellow troubadour slinging cliche couplets over mid tempo ďrockĒ tracks. Doggerel all seemed way too comfortable for me, but I understand Iím in the minority on this. Really donít listen to the album much at all. And to be fair, being challenged isnít something BF seems super interested in right now. He seems content with the setup, so it remains.
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <

2960 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2023 :  11:46:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I feel sorry to be repeating these same points,

I think each 2.0 album is better than the previous, with the possible exception of Head Carrier, so:

IC = HC < BTE < D

and I enjoy all of the 2.0 albums (and b-sides) and listen to them quite a bit, but my brain simply does not register them as pixies albums but rather as some sort of solo FBF things.

But I do feel a new producer would be good
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
6009 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2023 :  12:53:00  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Yeah, Tom seems to be pushing him away from the quirky material.

Still, I love the BTE-songs, all of time, even the more bland ones. They just work together.
Doggerel and HC have fantastic songs but as a whole they don't really cry out masterpieces to me

FBF made his masterpieces, I just want more songs. I always enjoy listening to them. Again and again.

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
815 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2023 :  20:18:49  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by natenate101

Itís not even about the production for me, but the input on song selection that Dalgety has that bothers me. Personally what he seems to want out of a Pixies song isnít what Iím looking for. Feel like BF needs to be challenged a bit more in terms of his lyrics and songwriting in general. I know that man is a genius but that doesnít mean everything he puts out is gold. Some of the writing he did on Doggerel was bland as hell. I always liked him because of the quirky stuff heíd say that no one else was saying. Now he is like a mellow troubadour slinging cliche couplets over mid tempo ďrockĒ tracks. Doggerel all seemed way too comfortable for me




Yes, agree really hard with this. The song selection is why I want Tom out of there. He has incredibly cliche, formulaic and generic ideas about what constitutes a rock album; wanting everything perfectly in its place, nothing outside the box, no hard left turns, no sharp corners: all of the things the Pixies used to trade in.

He really seems to have no idea what makes the Pixies (or Frank, for that matter) uniquely special or even interesting. A lot of those songs on the new albums are fine, and some I do enjoy a lot, but it almost feels like any band could have done them. And I didn't even think that with the Catholics stuff, which somehow feels more idiosyncratic than the current Pixies even though it's rooted in classic country/folk/rock genre songwriting.

And I get the feeling that Tom is sitting there, hearing the weirder ones, or the short experimental ones, thinking "well that's not a single" or "that's not how you end/begin an album!" and cutting them out. Then he goes and adds the same "big guitar chorus!!" to everything they do.

I sincerely wonder if he's ever even listened to their older material. I mean, he should go to a live show and see the difference in audience reaction to when they do something like Bone Machine compared to when they do Vault of Heaven.

UNLESS, he's just doing what he can with what Frank provides him. That's certainly likely. Frank gets in different songwriting modes and he seems to be in a sort of laid back, formulaic kind of mode. Which when Frank is doing it, can still give you some good songs. Certainly ones I'd be proud of if I wrote them. But if I was the producer, and knowing how apparently susceptible Frank is to suggestion (based on hearing it in the podcast), I would try to get some more weird, scary, unpredictable shit out of him.
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =

USA
851 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2023 :  20:38:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman

Yeah, Tom seems to be pushing him away from the quirky material.

Still, I love the BTE-songs, all of time, even the more bland ones. They just work together.
Doggerel and HC have fantastic songs but as a whole they don't really cry out masterpieces to me

FBF made his masterpieces, I just want more songs. I always enjoy listening to them. Again and again.

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?



Agree on BTE, itís easily the best of 2.0 to me. Has enough up tempo ďrockersĒ mixed with some calmer., more atmospheric stuff. And the songwriting is much better than on Doggerel. There are a few songs on each 2.0 release that are just too MOR for me but I feel Doggerel has too many of those. The balance was much better on BTE and HC even. Pixies just arenít a band I want to hear being ďcomfortableĒ. But thatís something Iím going to have to get over I guess.

Edited by - natenate101 on 10/30/2023 20:40:20
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3909 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2023 :  23:11:59  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

The song selection is why I want Tom out of there. He has incredibly cliche, formulaic and generic ideas about what constitutes a rock album; wanting everything perfectly in its place, nothing outside the box, no hard left turns, no sharp corners: all of the things the Pixies used to trade in.




Agree with this - although I don't think Dalgety has produced all bad - but you're right they've lost a lot of the edge that made them uniquely interesting

It is their choice however who they get to produce their albums and with that in mind it's reasonable to suggest that maybe they (or I suppose Mr BF the main songwriter) has just run out of steam

There aren't many bands or artists who can churn out music spanning (nearly) 5 decades without losing a bit of their edge or starting to sound fake or forced

Who knows though we might be surprised - the BTE demoes had plenty of Pixies 1.0 oeuvre but of course without much Dalgety input there as it was raw and unproduced
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
6009 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2023 :  00:50:26  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Yeah, he produced those demo's as well, I believe

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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3909 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2023 :  05:18:11  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I didn't think demo recordings got any production?
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TheScooper
- FB Fan -

USA
176 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2023 :  19:24:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Whichever set of demos included O Little Cloud, Wolves, and the first version of Um Chugga - those had so much more personality, not to mention Pixie-ness, than anything Dalgety has produced. I suspect they are pouring Pixie dust in and Tom is converting it into the comparatively lifeless product (and as we know even cutting out cool songs or pushing them to be more conventional)

They are so good that the records are still worth listening to ... but it's despite the bottleneck in the booth
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
815 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2023 :  23:51:15  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pot

I didn't think demo recordings got any production?



Demos are always produced, in a sense. The creation of them involves all the same elements that the creation of any music does. Creative decisions, recording technique, mixing decisions, etc, etc.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
6009 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2023 :  05:48:49  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
When you listen to the podcast you get a sense that Tom is just a great guy and fun to be with
He is also a very good time manager, I believe
It just works for them, it's convenient, it's pleasant.

Fine by me, I don't expect Surfer Rosa 2.0 anyway
Give me a pleasant, late Leonard Cohen-style.
Bossanova 2.0


I like my Pixies weird, I would love some violins by Paz, some modular synths by her and David
and let Joey wail the living hell out of his guiar
And Frank can howl too

But nobody is asking me anything!


---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?

Edited by - billgoodman on 11/01/2023 05:50:07
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <

2960 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2023 :  10:55:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For those who don't like Dalgety (I'm ambivalent myself) is there a producer whose name you could through in to the mix?
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
815 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2023 :  11:14:16  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

For those who don't like Dalgety (I'm ambivalent myself) is there a producer whose name you could through in to the mix?



I'm not incredibly knowledgeable about producers. But like what about the producer of some of the wild, Pixies-like Frank albums? Mark Lemhouse produced Bluefinger. I know nothing about him otherwise. How about someone like him? Someone who can sit back and let Frank go nuts and not second guess stuff too much or try to turn every song into a hit single or something?

A lot of bands I like have been disappointing me so when I look at those albums, I can't think of new producers that I would choose.

I like what Gil Norton did on Indy Cindie, except for the mastering of it. So go with Gil again?
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
1071 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2023 :  14:19:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd like to hear a new Pixies album produced by J Mascis or Ben Mumphrey.
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

Iceland
3909 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2023 :  23:13:54  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'd pick Jason Carter - he did a great job on the Bluefinger albums
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <

2960 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2023 :  06:33:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think I answered my own question

Today in the car I hit shuffle and Bel Esprit came on followed by Dance War

Thatís all you need to know

Frank should produce the next album and give us more Dance War.

How psyched would you have been if one of the 2.0 albums had the energy and abandon and incoherence of that song?
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *

1225 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2023 :  10:54:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think I'd prefer Dalgety. I get the spirit of the point you're making. But COR is just the FB nadir for me.
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <

2960 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2023 :  13:22:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fair point Sprite

And to be Frank, I love the 2.0 albums just the way they are and wouldnít change much about them.

For some reason Dance War really slapped me this morning
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =

Canada
910 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2023 :  15:37:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We should also consider that Charles commented in the press cycle for the Doggerel that he's not particularly interested in forcing himself to write that style of punk music anymore. The energy, abandon, and incoherence of that song most likely doesn't match with where Charles is at this point in his life (which is fine/natural).

I just listened to a new copy of CoR on vinyl, and while I really enjoyed it (my estimation of it has grown quite a lot from before when I didn't think much of it) I'm not necessarily longing for more, haha. (I would go further and call the mid-to-late 90s in general the FB nadir, with Dog in the Sand marking a return to form.)
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <

2960 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2023 :  16:35:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I felt like he was going for that kind of sounds with Baalís Back and St Nazare, but not really getting it.

Agree with your main points Brank
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
6009 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2023 :  11:08:38  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I do think St. Nazare is a pretty decent recording and production
Baal's Back is weirdly mixed. But so is Surfer Rosa.

Maybe I don't have the patience to accept weird mixes anymore.
Not only Frank is in a different point of his life.
So are we.

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
815 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2023 :  22:19:32  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Dance War rules and I will take anything from Cult of Ray over the Dalgety Pixies stuff.
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The Holiday Son
= Quote Accumulator =

France
1994 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2023 :  07:32:36  Show Profile  Visit The Holiday Son's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by natenate101

Itís not even about the production for me, but the input on song selection that Dalgety has that bothers me. Personally what he seems to want out of a Pixies song isnít what Iím looking for. Feel like BF needs to be challenged a bit more in terms of his lyrics and songwriting in general. I know that man is a genius but that doesnít mean everything he puts out is gold. Some of the writing he did on Doggerel was bland as hell. I always liked him because of the quirky stuff heíd say that no one else was saying. Now he is like a mellow troubadour slinging cliche couplets over mid tempo ďrockĒ tracks. Doggerel all seemed way too comfortable for me, but I understand Iím in the minority on this. Really donít listen to the album much at all. And to be fair, being challenged isnít something BF seems super interested in right now. He seems content with the setup, so it remains.



We're both in the minority then.
Exactly what I think about Doggerel.
Not a bad album but my least favorite from 2.0.
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =

Canada
910 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2023 :  11:33:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like Dogerrel, and would prefer more of them than nothing, but it's hard to disagree with natenate's assessment (other than that we don't know the other songs that he could have selected from, so can't say at this point whether he picked the right ones or not.)

I'm currently BTE > IC > Doggerel > HC

At the very least, from what we've gathered from the aborted Wales session it seems that Tom was trying to push the band in a more experimental direction which frustrated Charles who wanted to draw from the pile of demos that weren't recorded for Doggerel.

The song Doggerel was fantastic - hopefully Tom is looking to continue pushing in that direction.

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