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 Rejected From Wikipedia... Shazeb Andleeb
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Billy Radcliffe
- FB Fan -

USA
145 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2006 :  20:08:24  Show Profile  Visit Billy Radcliffe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Wikipedia rejected the following tidbit of information so I am placing it here because I hope it will find it's way into the references part of the Lyrics and Tab Section of the Song Database.

Shazeb Andleeb, age 17, attended Narbonne High School in Harbor City, California, where he was kicked and beaten to death in the hallway on May 18, 1995. Renee Nieves and Christian Bremmer (Both 18) were two students who took part in the beating. [[Frank Black]] gave a most impressive eulogy of his story in the song "The Last Stand Of Shazeb Andleeb" from his third solo album entitled "The Cult Of Ray"

Wikipedia's reason for "Speedy Deletion"?

Being killed does not make someone Notable.


Well, thanks to Frank we are all smarter than the people who run the edit-it yourself encyclopedia... I guess the world DOESN'T need to know as long as all Frank Black fans remember. The song does tell most of the story... But when you try to research, all you get is the additional information I provided. Again, hopefully this additional information will find it's way into the song archive where it is probably more relevant... The song made me cry even more once Frank got me curious to go find out who Shazeb was... Maybe Billy Radcliffe is real too...

------------------------------------------------------------------


Goodbye - I'm blowing a kiss to you
So Long - Wonderful being you
Good Night - We'll soon be sleeping on the Fields of Marigold

ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -

USA
2951 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2006 :  21:34:41  Show Profile  Visit ProverbialCereal's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Shouldn't you be able to find just about anything in an encyclopedia? Maybe since only one person got killed who wasn't of any "importance," they rejected it. I bet the Colombine shooting is in wikipedia though, just because it was all over the media.

I dunno, maybe wikipedia has certain criteria that needs to be met.
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Billy Radcliffe
- FB Fan -

USA
145 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2006 :  21:50:11  Show Profile  Visit Billy Radcliffe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Call me crazy, but like Frank, I feel people should know about this man... He wasn't even 18 yet... and even though it's been 10 years, I think it's a crime that you can't find out ANY details on the man, his life, or even this incident... And yes, Wikipedia does have article(S) about columbine.

I could talk myself to death, but I believe I would only waste my breath.
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -

USA
2951 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2006 :  23:13:35  Show Profile  Visit ProverbialCereal's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hey did you notice this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cult_of_Ray

And for what it's worth if you search "Shazeb Andleeb" through wikipedia, "The Cult of Ray" comes up.
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =

USA
1849 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2006 :  23:52:14  Show Profile  Visit IceCream's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I wonder why Shazeb was beaten. Was he a minority?

That is probably one of Frank's saddest songs, if not THE saddest. The live version on the I Don't Want To Hurt You EP is fantabulous, by the way.
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Apesy
= Cult of Ray =

USA
411 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2006 :  01:29:20  Show Profile  Visit Apesy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ProverbialCereal

Hey did you notice this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cult_of_Ray

Wow. I don't know how Wikipedia's information police let this entry slide through, as this article purports that Ray Bradbury created Star Trek and the "cult" of the album title refers to Trekkers! Haha, that's great.

-=Apesy

Edited by - Apesy on 04/30/2006 01:32:24
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -

Ireland
11546 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2006 :  09:07:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Radcliffe

Wikipedia's reason for "Speedy Deletion"?

Being killed does not make someone Notable.


That's ridiculous.

It's the explaination for one of his more serious songs.

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Billy Radcliffe
- FB Fan -

USA
145 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2006 :  11:15:59  Show Profile  Visit Billy Radcliffe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I did finally get to squeeze in the part about Shazeb into the CULT of Ray post but it wouldn't let me put it anywhere else... (I Thought Shazeb deserved his own page...) As there should be more about Frank on the internet, I feel likewise about Shazeb. As for the Ray Bradbury comment... If it is inaccurate, you can always edit it yourself... But, that's what I always heard he meant (About the trekkies) so I just left that in there...


--------------------------------------------------------------------


I could talk myself to death, but I believe I would only waste my breath.
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Weird Harold
- FB Fan -

12 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2006 :  14:05:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ProverbialCereal
I bet the Colombine shooting is in wikipedia though, just because it was all over the media.


That incident also resulted in debates in the United States legislature, new gun laws and changes to school policy around the USA...
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -

USA
2951 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2006 :  20:55:33  Show Profile  Visit ProverbialCereal's Homepage  Reply with Quote
True.
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jtjcp88
- FB Fan -

105 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2006 :  05:41:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes why was he beaten up? Ive never heard of him him before. Poor barstard
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-

United Kingdom
6370 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2006 :  11:18:23  Show Profile  Visit starmekitten's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Radcliffe

Wikipedia rejected the following tidbit of information so I am placing it here because I hope it will find it's way into the references part of the Lyrics and Tab Section of the Song Database......



It shall be, but I can't do it straight away I'm afraid. Just moved house and internet cafe isn't the best place to mess with the db.

ebook title poll - please vote!
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Billy Radcliffe
- FB Fan -

USA
145 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2006 :  17:47:37  Show Profile  Visit Billy Radcliffe's Homepage  Reply with Quote
That's fine... As long as it eventually makes it in there. I appreciate the fact that it will make it in there just as Frank appreciates someone doing the little extra digging to find out about his song meanings, not to mention TRUE history.

I could talk myself to death, but I believe I would only waste my breath.
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~

Belize
5305 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2006 :  18:46:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
billy r, thanks for the tidbit. sad to hear it's really true.

well this whole thing sounds like wikipeda is in this big conspiracy with the man (not fb) or something.

Edited by - Daisy Girl on 05/04/2006 18:47:14
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

USA
9168 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2006 :  14:29:14  Show Profile  Visit VoVat's Homepage  Click to see VoVat's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
I wonder why Shazeb was beaten. Was he a minority?


I would imagine so, since the song says he's from Pakistan.



"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares."
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Holy Fingers
- FB Fan -

USA
149 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2006 :  07:25:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I bet that there is far more to Wikipedia's rejection of this topic than they would like us to know.


"The only difference between lilies and turds is whatever difference humans have agreed upon; and I don't always agree." - George Carlin
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =

Canada
11665 Posts

Posted - 05/08/2006 :  08:16:16  Show Profile  Visit Cult_Of_Frank's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't know, I think that it's probably a valid rejection. They can't have everyone, everywhere, who has ever died under circumstances unjust listed.

It's sad that we can't take the time to remember everyone, but at least we have a song about it, which, let's face it, is better than most people who have died under similar or worse circumstances have fared.


"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -

Ireland
11546 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2006 :  13:20:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I agree. It should be acceptable as info on FB, though.

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someguy51
- FB Fan -

Canada
30 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2006 :  11:47:04  Show Profile  Visit someguy51's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I tried searching some california newspapers and there were more then 10 articles on it. Unfortunately, you have to pay to view them...From the little bit that it lets you read for free one of the articles said that they killed him because he (Andleeb) wouldn't put them on a party guest list.

If you want to pay to read the articles go to the link below (sorry about its length) and then in the "for" textbox enter "Andleeb" and click the search button.

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=NewsLibrary&p_action=keyword&p_theme=newslibrary2&s_home=home&s_sources=&p_clear_search=&s_search_type=keyword&s_place=&d_refprod=NewsLibrary&s_category=none&s_trackval=&d_place=California
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =

Canada
11665 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2006 :  12:08:55  Show Profile  Visit Cult_Of_Frank's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Wow, very interesting, hadn't seen actual new clippings before, thanks! Some of that should definitely be in our db.


"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -

Ireland
11546 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2006 :  18:11:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, interesting.

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some dude who was there
- FB Fan -

1 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2006 :  20:25:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
it happened during "nutrition", the 15 minute break between 2 and 3rd period. it was the most memorable day of school i ever had. i was about 100 yards away but didnt really notice while six kids beat this kid to death. he was in my P.E. class, but i didnt really know - or like - him. i remember 3rd period english, all we knew was there was a bad fight. everybody wanted a bathroom pass to go check it out. in 5th period class the principal got on the PE and mispronounced his name so freakin bad, and instead of saying he died, the principal said "expired". the principal was such a jack ass.

by the time all the ambulances came he was dead, they probably beat him to death in 2-3 minutes. i think there all out of jail now
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =

Canada
11665 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2006 :  21:35:02  Show Profile  Visit Cult_Of_Frank's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Funny how a person can dislike someone they don't know.

I imagine that was a bit of a rude awakening, all this excitement to go see a fight and here someone died and wasn't going to be seeing his parents, having a life after finishing school, any of that. An interesting perspective, thanks.


"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
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a guy in a rover
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
535 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2006 :  04:02:18  Show Profile  Click to see a guy in a rover's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Dude who was there, how did you come across this site?

Kiss my ring...I am the greatest

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spook
- FB Fan -

Ireland
31 Posts

Posted - 06/29/2006 :  16:15:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's a sad story. Poor kid. I wonder do his folks know there's a song about their son? Probably. You think Frank contacted them to see if it was okay? He's a good guy.


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Suicide_Samurai
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
431 Posts

Posted - 06/29/2006 :  16:29:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I hate Americanised words like "expired." It sounds so dehumanised. "Announcement. Shazeb Andleeb has expired. As you were."

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edbanky
= Cult of Ray =

Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
388 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2006 :  07:30:42  Show Profile  Visit edbanky's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well, let me Americanize Americanised.


"They, on average, die the same age."
Modulous
Member / Posts: 1541 /From: Manchester, UK / Registered: 05-01-2005
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MarshalltheMarsist
- FB Fan -

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2006 :  20:51:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Personally, I think your wikipedia entry is kind of dumb. When has there ever been controversy over Shazeb Andleeb? Or COR for that matter? You should have said something that matters about the album, and is true. The Last Stand of Shazeeb Andleeb is a good song (one of my favorites), but I don't think what you wrote is an appropriate introduction to the album.
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Suicide_Samurai
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
431 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2006 :  23:31:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MarshalltheMarsist

Personally, I think your wikipedia entry is kind of dumb. When has there ever been controversy over Shazeb Andleeb? Or COR for that matter? You should have said something that matters about the album, and is true. The Last Stand of Shazeeb Andleeb is a good song (one of my favorites), but I don't think what you wrote is an appropriate introduction to the album.



I don't think Billy Radcliffe wrote the line "The Cult of Ray is the last Frank Black album recorded for a major record company and it is maybe the most controversial and least appreciated." which I think you're referring to.

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MarshalltheMarsist
- FB Fan -

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2006 :  06:36:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You are correct, I just assumed it was billy because the controversy in question is controversy over Shazeb Andleeb (apparently), and this quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Radcliffe

I did finally get to squeeze in the part about Shazeb into the CULT of Ray post but it wouldn't let me put it anywhere else... (I Thought Shazeb deserved his own page...) As there should be more about Frank on the internet, I feel likewise about Shazeb.
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sarahkushner
- FB Fan -

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2006 :  17:42:09  Show Profile  Visit sarahkushner's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Oddly enough... I was just writing to a friend about this. I was wondering if there were any articles on Shazeeb, so I googled his name and came here.

I was there that day. It happened in front of the career center during "nutrition", as was stated. I was 10 feet away around the corner, the bell rang, and we lingered a little while, talking and laughing about something or other, completely unaware of what was happening on the other side of the building.

I did finally notice something was wrong, the odd silence of everyone, no one moving... I turned around and there he was. One of my teachers, who was also a life guard, was already performing CPR. I'm not lying when I say that the world went slow motion. It was so quiet right there... but I could see his sister there crying, and his friend Farrah, who I had known for years... I could see them but I couldn't hear them. I looked back over as the school nurse went to Shazeebs side to help. My teacher looked up, and right at me... I knew by the look in his eyes that he wasn't going to make it. A school official started yelling to move, and broke the silence... everything moved again.

I went to class. We sat in shock.

Our teacher had him in another class, and over the next week... he slowly found out all the details of what had happened and why he was attacked. It wasn't race related. Shazeeb was a good kid. He stayed behind a year so his sister wouldn't be alone in school. He was planning a graduation party... thats how it all started... a guest list. One of his attackers was sitting next to him in class while Shazeeb wrote a list of people going to the party... The other boy grabbed the list and wrote the name of his "crew"... Shazeeb snatched it back, and crossed out the name of the "crew". The other boy took it as a dire insult. Confrontations ensued for the week before the attack, just stare downs... that were broken up by teachers. The other boy and his crew started planning to jump him... And they did.

Shazeeb was there with his sister and his friend Farrah... The group of boys ran up... knocked him down... stomped on him... The girls tried to help, they were flung away, one girl knocked into the locker... The attack lasted no more than 10 to 15 seconds.

I blamed myself for years. I wondered what would have happened had I turned that corner sooner... and not loitered. I felt responsible. I knew him only by passing him on the way to class, shared glances, a smile... I wished I had gotten to know him better, I felt guilty that I'd never have the chance.
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -

Ireland
11546 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2006 :  17:45:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi sarah, I'm sorry you had to experience that.

Merry Christmas!
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <

USA
3108 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2006 :  18:30:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I still think it's lame that Wikipedia rejected an entry on this guy. I'm going to give it a second try. Billy, you should send me the text of what you tried to submit originally.


Is that a real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?
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sarahkushner
- FB Fan -

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2006 :  18:50:13  Show Profile  Visit sarahkushner's Homepage  Reply with Quote
As a side note. None of the attackers served jail time. They got one year probation.
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =

Canada
11665 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2006 :  19:10:40  Show Profile  Visit Cult_Of_Frank's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I noticed for the first time that his name is occassionally "Shazeb" and other times "Shazeeb". Which is correct?

I'm sorry you were there for that, Sarah. I'm sure it was truly horrible. Obviously you're not at fault, those punks that stomped on his heart were. Too bad that being young seems to mean that you get away, in this case literally, with murder. I hope they're at least sorry by now.


"Now you're officially my woman. Kudos. I can't say I don't envy you."
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sarahkushner
- FB Fan -

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2006 :  19:15:55  Show Profile  Visit sarahkushner's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure of the spelling right now, since I'm at work... I'm going by the google search that came up. I will need to look at the yearbook. Can we post pictures in this forum? I can scan his photo and post it.
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