T O P I C R E V I E W |
billgoodman |
Posted - 10/01/2022 : 01:35:25 What we know (in chronical order):
- Doggerel was made with the 40 demo's/ideas that Frank (and a couple more from Joey) brought to the sessions. They had some good songs that didn't fit the record so they were put aside (acording to FBF in the French Rolling Stone)
- Paz says the band worked on 16 of the 40 songs (bass magazine interview) [12 were released on Doggerel]
- In april (source?) of 2022 the Pixies and Tom Dalgety recorded for a week in Rockfield Studios (Wales).
- One of the songs Frank liked from the demo's, but did not do during the Doggerel-sessions, that they tried to record in Wales. Bluesy, stomper song, "I enjoyed it as an acoustic demo" [...] they tried to make it bigger, better and louder, but "in the end it was just too loud", "too much information". It didn't work out, it was failure, "thank god we didn't release this because we were in a rush" (interview on Raised on Radio)
- Joey brought some songs to the table again (working titles Howie's Garage, I hear you mary, Taking care of bid'ness, according to Uncut interview). They recorded three ideas in Rockfield (according to Under the Radar interview), maybe those three?
- Paz recorded two songs for it (according to BF in French interview)
- Frank to SPIN: [On Doggerel] "I think that’s one more writing collaboration than has appeared on any other disc in the Pixies catalog. I imagine there will be much more collaboration forthcoming. I sense it.”
- Session in Wales didn't go that well, acording to FBF in Ultimate Music Guide : "I was not in a good mood for lots of reasons" I was very frustrated because now Mr Fucking Producer wants to work on all the fucking artsy-fartsy scraps from the margin. I got all these 40 fucking songs I wrote, for once in my life I do my homework............Now I show up with the goods and they're like [] these werid little things that you didn't intend over here bla bla [ ] I threw my notebook on top of the roof [..] I threw about three temper tantrums in about eight days
- Joey in Under the Radar: "we have recorded so far about seven or eight demos for the next album. There will be a ninth album, we’re planning that already. After a good amount of a break, we will start recording again some time next year. We’re already kicking around what part of the world to work and record in next time"
- October 2023: Pixies record a new session with Tom Dalgety at Guilford Sounds, same place were Doggerel was recorded
- Paz leaves the band in october 2023 - march 2024
- Pixies play Vegas Suite, a new song, on the Bossanova Trompe tour
- Pixies rehearse a new song, which is posted on instagram: https://fb.watch/qROLONNt-1/
- Frank Black plays a new song, which is posted on instagram: https://fb.watch/qROQ6dvc5M/
- 11 song titles are published on the BMI website
It's here: https://pixies.tmstor.es/
--------------------------- BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
Troubles A Foot |
Posted - 02/15/2025 : 16:24:51 quote: Originally posted by Skatealex1 Also I don't know how involved Tom was with the BTE demos- but I feel like those have some of the best sounds from Pixies 2.0 output. More raw, fun energy, nothing really sounding over produced, etc.
Yes these demos are full of mystery to me. I would imagine since Tom and the band recorded them probably not assuming anyone would ever hear them, Tom didn't do the "MAKE THIS A RADIO FRIENDLY HIT!" smashing it with a hammer that I think he's done on the other songs. It was just about getting the songs down bare bones. Yet ironically, this allows you to actually hear what a great band they are (EVERYONE is on fire), and the no pressure recording ("no one but us will hear this") translates to the band sounding like they are actually having fun and are full of creativity and energy.
In my mind, it is an album. A little short, but an album. If Catholics first album, which was originally demos, is an album, then this thing is an album. |
Mad Lucas |
Posted - 02/15/2025 : 13:06:21 Yeah that's all fair enough, just added a few thoughts.
I would say that he is a conservative force on the band. He's much more tethered to industry standards in terms of technique and probably song choice.
That probably means that oddball tunes are left aside for ones which more widespread appeal. I will note that in an interview it was revealed that TD inspired FBF to develop the riff that became Vegas Suite, which is a tune I love.
It'd be nice to try working with someone else next, we've had our TD period. Though he seems he plays the role of muse as well as producer, so they'll probably stick with him if they make more albums
|
Skatealex1 |
Posted - 02/15/2025 : 12:43:58 quote: Originally posted by Mad Lucas
On the production topic, Gil Norton is more slick than we probably remember. Doolittle onwards isn't exactly recorded in an indie manner, Bossa and Trompe are huge at moments.
Yes, it's pre loudness war, but also worth remembering this is the guy who did Catherine Wheel and Foo Fighters shortly after
I hear that about FB. I can't say I know exactly what causes what hear but Frank seems to have basically suggested in some interviews that he kinda let's the producer make a lot of choices and I get that sense with Tom's work with them.
Also honestly- I think a Foo Fighters style Pixies album even sounds more interesting to me than what seems to be Tom's influence on the band lately. Also I think Catherine Wheel is kind of shoegazey, I'd love to see that with Pixies nowdays.
I do agree also the later Pixies album had some more slick production but it still produced classic stuff and seemed to gel with the weirdness.
As for Tom's influence too- there's been some past hints that he has helped choose songs for track lists which could mean stuff like all the BTE demos not making it to the main album- where as if I was in his shoes I could imagine some of those tracks doing well to take the place of something like Ready for Love for example.
Also stuff that's been brought up before- bizzare production choices- like how Baals Back came out. I could imagine if that was in the Doolittle age the song could've been a classic along the lines of Tame or something.
I'm sure a lot of this can be pretty subjective too but just giving my perspective at the moment. |
Mad Lucas |
Posted - 02/15/2025 : 12:05:46 On the production topic, Gil Norton is more slick than we probably remember. Doolittle onwards isn't exactly recorded in an indie manner, Bossa and Trompe are huge at moments.
Yes, it's pre loudness war, but also worth remembering this is the guy who did Catherine Wheel and Foo Fighters shortly after
|
Mad Lucas |
Posted - 02/15/2025 : 12:00:19 quote: Originally posted by Skatealex1
quote: Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
But that's the problem with it. It's like neither fish nor fowl. Frank is having the Pixies be his backup band for what is most often country-ish, Catholics and solo material, then on top of that you have a producer seemingly trying to give them a hit or make them sound as mainstream and slick as possible, but that doesn't quite work either.
This is why many of the songs on these albums sound purposeless and awkward to me.
I agree with this. What I find kind of annoying as a fan with a producer like Tom working with Frank- I feel like he encourages mediocrity rather than pushing for something more interesting. Or if not mediocrity it's like putting Pixies with a classic rock producer rather than producers into stuff like indie rock, etc.
I also obviously don't know what the output would be like with other producers or band situations (IE- working with the TOTY band or Catholics) but definitely when seeing them live nowdays, it feels like Pixies are clocking it in for the most part.
At the TOTY show FB seemed way more engaged than I've seen him at any Pixies shows over the past who knows how many years.
I went to two side shows last year when they were touring with Pearl Jam in Australia. FBF was more engaged than I had seen him probably since the SvnFngrs period. Both in terms of being very lucid and ad libbing vocal parts and laughing with the band and audience. I think he's in a good place generally, viewing entirely from the outside. |
Skatealex1 |
Posted - 02/15/2025 : 11:49:22 Honestly- if Tom D was a producer was involved with Pixies back then- I could imagine Pixies being more of a radio band than the indie rock sorta path they went on back then.
But I'd say a big caveat- while I obviously don't know Charles (or any Pixies members) personally- I can imagine early days Pixies considering their music style and attitude not wanting to work with 'classic/radio rock' style producers. So I'd imagine Tom probably wouldn't have gotten in the mix back then.
Also I don't know how involved Tom was with the BTE demos- but I feel like those have some of the best sounds from Pixies 2.0 output. More raw, fun energy, nothing really sounding over produced, etc.
I'll also say despite all these criticisms I'm still glad to follow Franks work and see what he releases overtime(there's still plenty I enjoy there). |
Bedbug |
Posted - 02/15/2025 : 11:03:51 Maybe because I know nothing about music I don't hang as much of the whole thing on the producer's shoulders as I should?
Yes I can tell the difference in sounds between SR and TLM, and between 1.0 and 2.0, but I also feel like from CoP to TNTZC is all one unified FBF "thing"
Are we saying that if Tom D produced SR in 1988 and Steve A produced the next 2.0 album we would end up with vastly different finished products?
And when the man himself produced CoR very few at the time (certainly not me) were like, "this thing rocks!"
But I defer to the musicians on the forum.
I totally agree that it seems that Pixies live performances could be seen as "clocking it in." Rare exceptions to that phenomenon exist for artists in their 60s I would imagine. And that right there is why the 2.0 thing is also good, because maybe that's where Frank is. I'm blown away that he can still shriek it out on the 1.0 stuff live as good as he does.
BTW Trouble I do think your neither fish nor fowl thought makes an interesting point |
Skatealex1 |
Posted - 02/15/2025 : 10:03:47 quote: Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
But that's the problem with it. It's like neither fish nor fowl. Frank is having the Pixies be his backup band for what is most often country-ish, Catholics and solo material, then on top of that you have a producer seemingly trying to give them a hit or make them sound as mainstream and slick as possible, but that doesn't quite work either.
This is why many of the songs on these albums sound purposeless and awkward to me.
I agree with this. What I find kind of annoying as a fan with a producer like Tom working with Frank- I feel like he encourages mediocrity rather than pushing for something more interesting. Or if not mediocrity it's like putting Pixies with a classic rock producer rather than producers into stuff like indie rock, etc.
I also obviously don't know what the output would be like with other producers or band situations (IE- working with the TOTY band or Catholics) but definitely when seeing them live nowdays, it feels like Pixies are clocking it in for the most part.
At the TOTY show FB seemed way more engaged than I've seen him at any Pixies shows over the past who knows how many years. |
Troubles A Foot |
Posted - 02/15/2025 : 09:37:48 But that's the problem with it. It's like neither fish nor fowl. Frank is having the Pixies be his backup band for what is most often country-ish, Catholics and solo material, then on top of that you have a producer seemingly trying to give them a hit or make them sound as mainstream and slick as possible, but that doesn't quite work either.
This is why many of the songs on these albums sound purposeless and awkward to me. |
Bedbug |
Posted - 02/15/2025 : 09:09:17 quote: Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
quote: Originally posted by Mad Lucas Also the music just sounds good.
I just don't think it does. That's part of the problem. The production, and this specific producer in charge of picking the songs and making so many arrangement decisions is ruining what could be fantastic work from Frank and the Pixies.
I listened to the album another time yesterday. I think I liked it even less. I think there's only two or three songs I enjoy on it. Besides my disappointment with NonStopErotik, I never thought I'd dislike one of his albums to this degree so I'm not happy to report that.
Seeing Teenager of the Year live only further cemented my disappointment with the recent output. I kept thinking during the show why can't he do something close to this anymore? Even for just a few songs.
I think NSE is fantastic, it's like Frank's Wild at Heart
I was thinking that some people love / don't love 2.0 because it sounds more like mainstream music, but now I don't know. It kind of doesn't sound like anything else really. |
Troubles A Foot |
Posted - 02/15/2025 : 08:41:37 quote: Originally posted by Mad Lucas Also the music just sounds good.
I just don't think it does. That's part of the problem. The production, and this specific producer in charge of picking the songs and making so many arrangement decisions is ruining what could be fantastic work from Frank and the Pixies.
I listened to the album another time yesterday. I think I liked it even less. I think there's only two or three songs I enjoy on it. Besides my disappointment with NonStopErotik, I never thought I'd dislike one of his albums to this degree so I'm not happy to report that.
Seeing Teenager of the Year live only further cemented my disappointment with the recent output. I kept thinking during the show why can't he do something close to this anymore? Even for just a few songs. |
Bedbug |
Posted - 02/15/2025 : 05:25:29 It’s great to see all the love for 2.0 |
two reelers |
Posted - 02/15/2025 : 01:22:24 quote: Originally posted by Mad Lucas
I love 2.0 on the whole, very few songs which I skip (Ring The Bell and Pagan Man come to mind) and a ton of sublime moments.
I'm primarily a jazz fan and that perhaps set me up to enjoy 2.0 in the sense that in jazz there is a high value placed on an artist maturing and deepening their 'sound' and the musical world they produce. There's less of an importance placed on freshness or novelty.
It's plainly true that FBF works within the same broad format (rocknroll music) and his points of reference have remained the same for decades.
Nonetheless I think when you have a true great still trying to find new nuances within their method and responding to the times and tides this is a wonderful thing.
In a musical landscape full of superficiality and novelty and postmodern retro, artists like FBF or Kristin Hersh are a salve.
Also the music just sounds good.
That’s an interesting viewpoint, thanks for the input. Since I am definitely not into jazz, it correlates well with my perception/reception of Pixies 1.0 vs. 2.0.
I however tend to slightly disagree with the statement that 2.0 is less fresh/novel (when compared to 1.0). I think the production and song structures are different (e.g. more polished, longer songs, more „classic“ rock structures), which makes them novel in the FBF universe. And I guess some people enjoy this and some not so much.
I joined the cult of Souled American / 'cause they are a damn' fine band |
Mad Lucas |
Posted - 02/14/2025 : 19:51:07 I love 2.0 on the whole, very few songs which I skip (Ring The Bell and Pagan Man come to mind) and a ton of sublime moments.
I'm primarily a jazz fan and that perhaps set me up to enjoy 2.0 in the sense that in jazz there is a high value placed on an artist maturing and deepening their 'sound' and the musical world they produce. There's less of an importance placed on freshness or novelty.
It's plainly true that FBF works within the same broad format (rocknroll music) and his points of reference have remained the same for decades.
Nonetheless I think when you have a true great still trying to find new nuances within their method and responding to the times and tides this is a wonderful thing.
In a musical landscape full of superficiality and novelty and postmodern retro, artists like FBF or Kristin Hersh are a salve.
Also the music just sounds good. |
billgoodman |
Posted - 02/14/2025 : 05:47:10 I enjoy almost everything FBF has put out I'm a fan and a supporter Can't help it
I do think some records are better than others of course.
--------------------------- BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
Skatealex1 |
Posted - 02/13/2025 : 19:07:47 quote: Originally posted by Bedbug
This reminds me of the day TLM came out. Bought the cassette and loved it instantly, but you would not believe how many people were like "this is even worse than Bossanova!" I'm like "Are you crazy?"
Two Reelers, do you still dislike Indie Cindy?
For those of you who dislike the last decade of what Frank has created and given to us, what do you listen to?
I'll start with a caveat that I like some newer music from Frank but I find especially the last two haven't got me 'blown away' for the most part. For me Dogerrel was kind of a point where I found a lot of it fairly boring- minus a few highlights like the open and closer on that.
The latest Pixies album I think might be a bit better at least- some highlights for me- like Primrose and Oyster Beds.
BTE and the demos are possibly the Pixies 2.0 highlight for me. Indie Cindy- I do think it has good songs but as has been stated in past threads feels simply over produced. Would love to hear a more raw version of it.
As for what I listen to otherwise- I find a lot of modern shoegaze is quite good when I'm in the mood for some atmospheric stuff that has energy. The latest Diiv record for example I thought was quality.
Sometimes on drives I may kinda dive into an artists work that comes to mind for whatever reason, catch up on new songs or listen more to past favorite kinda stuff.
Some artists that sometimes can enter into the rotation on the road- bands like Fishmans (they have some fun indie kinda stuff), Animal Collective, Modest Mouse, TV on the Radio, Pinback, Sigur Ros, Bjork, Broken Social Scene, Boards of Canada.. |
Brank_Flack |
Posted - 02/13/2025 : 09:55:19 Wow, I'm surprised they were blown away by the Lord Has Come Back Today - that's at most a pleasant grower for me, and I'm friendlier to 2.0 than most!
I like 2.0 but I don't think it's either a peak or a nadir of his career (although BTE is one of my favourite FBF albums and I think IC is criminally underrated). |
Bedbug |
Posted - 02/13/2025 : 08:21:09 The other night I was telling some people about the Frank concert we went to, and they'd never really heard of him beyond WIMM, so I played 3 of his songs for them:
The Lord Has Come Back Today Mercy Me The Vegas Suite
They were blown away, instant new fans. Imagine when they cycle all the way through to Doolittle and TOTY.
I listen to the 2.0 stuff all the time. It's my favorite era of his right now. Hope we get 10 more albums of 2.0 stuff, and then a bunch of solo projects too.
And also Two Reelers, have you listened to much of the live shows of Indie Cindy stuff? That's actually what really opened my eyes up to it. There are some Snakes and Mag318 out there that are spectacular. |
Troubles A Foot |
Posted - 02/13/2025 : 07:32:03 I listen to Catholics all the time. I listened to the first Frank solo album a huge amount because I made a podcast about it a few months ago. I listen to the Beneath Beneath the Eyrie (my name) demos all the time. But mostly I put on the Catholics on shuffle when I'm in the mood for Frank. Oh, I also listen to Oddballs a lot. It's one of my favorite releases. |
two reelers |
Posted - 02/13/2025 : 07:28:59 Yes, I still don't get excited about Indy Cindy, and I cannot be bothered to listen to it (which is all different from "dislike").
I also don't actively put on Surfer Rosa or Dolittle on the record player, but when by chance I listen to it, I still say to 95% "wow, that's really great and outstanding!". But for 85% of Pixies 2.0, I go "it is nice, but if I would not know this I don't think I would have missed something essential."
COP, Bossanova, TLM, all FB solo, Catholics, 50% of post-Catholics FB/BF - this is what I actively put on the record player, and don't get tired to listen to. Never could get into Grand Duchy.
I joined the cult of Souled American / 'cause they are a damn' fine band |
Bedbug |
Posted - 02/13/2025 : 05:21:52 This reminds me of the day TLM came out. Bought the cassette and loved it instantly, but you would not believe how many people were like "this is even worse than Bossanova!" I'm like "Are you crazy?"
Two Reelers, do you still dislike Indie Cindy?
For those of you who dislike the last decade of what Frank has created and given to us, what do you listen to? |
two reelers |
Posted - 02/13/2025 : 04:04:32 I don't think there is a need to be sad about this. We like some things, and we dislike some things. Quite natural, I think, and gladly we can have this variation.
I for myself also cannot get excited too much about Pixies 2.0 output, I did not even buy the last two albums nor IC for that matter. It was like this from the beginning when those albums came out, and I don't expect a change here. I think by far their best 2.0 record are the BTE demos, but even those I have not revisited much after some time.
I joined the cult of Souled American / 'cause they are a damn' fine band |
Bedbug |
Posted - 02/13/2025 : 02:59:47 I'll have to take your word for it Trouble, I'm not much of a TMBG fan as you probably can tell. I just know what my opinion is of their first three albums.
My bigger point was just that I feel sad that you're such a big fan of Charles music but that you dislike his new albums so much. For some of us this is one of the greatest periods in FBF history. Wish you could have that too. Maybe you'll come around to these albums someday (like I did with Indie Cindy). |
Troubles A Foot |
Posted - 02/11/2025 : 16:44:38 quote: Originally posted by Bedbug I can sort of relate when it comes to TMBG. I can’t stomach a single one of their songs beside the first album, which is brilliant. It’s like they’re not even the same band or that they lost all their talent, which might be how you feel about these FBF songs
Their first album and their next two had all the same songs they wrote around the same time in the mid 80s, and their second album was made immediately after with the same producer and a lot of the same technology. What you say doesn't really make a lot of sense.
Compare that to the Pixies album which is a radical change in style and sound and made decades after their best work. On top of that, basically every TMBG fan prefers their next few albums over the first one, with Lincoln and Flood being huge fan favorites, whereas I doubt I can find a couple Pixies fans who would have a similar sentiment about their latest work. |
Bedbug |
Posted - 02/11/2025 : 12:15:14 I feel you Trouble
I hope that someday you’ll be able to enjoy these Frank tunes too
I can sort of relate when it comes to TMBG. I can’t stomach a single one of their songs beside the first album, which is brilliant. It’s like they’re not even the same band or that they lost all their talent, which might be how you feel about these FBF songs |
Troubles A Foot |
Posted - 02/11/2025 : 07:28:55 I have not even listened to this album since those first few weeks when it came out, and I don't feel particularly compelled to. |
Bedbug |
Posted - 02/11/2025 : 01:50:25 I Hear You Mary has REALLY grown on me
One of my favorite tracks now
Typical grower of FBF, love it now |
Mad Lucas |
Posted - 12/13/2024 : 10:38:31 The most interesting thing about the Kim album is the change in lyrical style, dealing with mortality, existence etc from the perspective of someone ageing. It is striking to hear after so much of her prior work is clouded in abstraction lyrically (not a bad thing). Couple that with the fact she still has all her musical powers, unlike other artists who make this shift post age-60, and it makes a compelling package.
Nonetheless, I can't get away from the fact that she's returning to many of the same wells. I wonder during recording how many takes she re-records because she played the part too correctly, or gave the impression she was trying too hard. Like at some point, when you're getting a horn section on your album, you've shown your hand that you're doing your best. You don't need to do the performative sloppiness thing. But that's what I'm getting at with her prioritising aesthetic or attitude. I think that approach really paid off on Title TK, but there are diminishing returns. |
billgoodman |
Posted - 12/13/2024 : 10:03:19 What about this one: if Frank releases a record I'm all over it, from the get go. Even the bad ones. I know Kim's new record is better, at least the singles were, but I only listened to it two times
I know Kim is cooler and better in being an indie goddes. I love her. But Frank is not interested in making those records. I don't think he can, to be honest.
But I'm all up for it. For anything. Make a hip hop record, I don't care. Even the duds. Bring 'em on.
--------------------------- BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
Brank_Flack |
Posted - 12/13/2024 : 08:44:02 quote: Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
quote: Originally posted by Brank_Flack
Nobody Loves You More is a pleasant listen, but it veers a bit too close to well-produced-indie-music-by-the-numbers. I'll take Primrose, Jane, Mercy Me, Motoroller, Kings of the Prairie over most of NLYM, whereas The Night the Zombies Came came together in weeks or months as opposed to a decade.
I just feel the total opposite. Nobody Loves You More isn't "pleasant" to me, it has multiple songs that moved me to tears. Nothing Frank has done has come close to that in a long time (maybe the bridge for Daniel Boone, and of course I love the reject songs from Eyrie. I also love the new solo song "The Liar" which is very moving.) I don't hear anything by the numbers in Kim's new album, each song is totally different, with different production styles and different songwriting techniques.
But also the production is so much better than the Pixies album it is insane. It's just so much more enjoyable to listen to because I don't get distracted by how bad the vocals or drums sound. And none of the songs sound like Kim is forcing anything. All of the new Pixies sounds like Frank is forcing solo songs into a Pixies shape and I know I've said this 1,000 times here, but I just can't get over how awkward that can be. They are a solid band but for some of these songs it doesn't feel like they are the right people.
I genuinely think the Pixies maybe should have "died" and he should have just been a solo artist. I think we'd all see more freedom from him in the songwriting, who he chooses to play on his albums, etc. We'd have more range of stuff like Honeycomb to Teenager of the Year to Bluefinger, etc. I find the Pixies thing kind of restraining for him, but the financial incentives are too great so he stays with it. I think he is indeed "caught in a dream" that he can't get out of. Part of why seeing him play solo was so incredibly refreshing last week.
Anyway this is all to say that Kim's new album just feels so real and inspired to me and the Pixies new album feels awkward to me.
Yeah, it's inarguable that the production (and arrangements) on Kim's album is better, but I don't have the same emotional connection to the songs that you do.
I also agree that there is something awkward to Pixies 2.0 baked into the core - but I also think that despite some duds, the tension between Frank's mature songwriting style and the band creates some interesting, and again, idiosyncratic results that I am overall happy with. You mentioned in the other thread something along the lines that that with Kim everything clicks, whereas with Pixies 2.0 there's an awkwardness of goth wearing cowboy boots. I think that's a good description, but I come down on the other side of finding the latter oddly compelling. For all the diversity on NLYM, most of the songs sound like tasteful, competent indie/alt songs that I've heard before (even the more experimental tracks), whereas Pixies takes on British murder ballads, Phil Spector, and late-era Leonard Cohen is more of a left-turn for me.
Without calling for a disbanding of the Pixies, I do agree that it would be nice if Charles could record with a greater diversity of musicians to reflect his different interests. |
Bedbug |
Posted - 12/13/2024 : 08:35:51 I don’t know if anything 1.0 has moved me to tears, other than tears of “this is amazing”
Maybe Motorway if I step into it
Nothing Kim has done gets me emotionally either, but always enjoy the listen |
Skatealex1 |
Posted - 12/13/2024 : 08:31:19 quote: Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
But also the production is so much better than the Pixies album it is insane. It's just so much more enjoyable to listen to because I don't get distracted by how bad the vocals or drums sound. And none of the songs sound like Kim is forcing anything. All of the new Pixies sounds like Frank is forcing solo songs into a Pixies shape and I know I've said this 1,000 times here, but I just can't get over how awkward that can be. They are a solid band but for some of these songs it doesn't feel like they are the right people.
I genuinely think the Pixies maybe should have "died" and he should have just been a solo artist. I think we'd all see more freedom from him in the songwriting, who he chooses to play on his albums, etc. We'd have more range of stuff like Honeycomb to Teenager of the Year to Bluefinger, etc. I find the Pixies thing kind of restraining for him, but the financial incentives are too great so he stays with it. I think he is indeed "caught in a dream" that he can't get out of. Part of why seeing him play solo was so incredibly refreshing last week.
I agree with pretty much of all of this. I don't hate on someone for cashing in but Frank doesn't even hide that Pixies is in big part a cash cow. I appreciate that hea evolved it to not try to recreate the old Pixies sound but it still seems almost a little off in some ways. Like letting Tom Dalgety seemingly make a lot of big choices like tracklists apparently and coming from a more classic rock than indie rock background. (Since when are Pixies a classic rock influenced band)
The Kim Deal production is so much more enjoyable and natural sounding to me than maybe any Pixies 2.0 release I can think of.
I'd add the last Breeders album on this list too. Even if it maybe sticks to Kim's guns a bit- it still just sounds more natural sounding and not overproduced indie rock where as maybe every Pixies 2.0 album has weird production choices that take away from it. |
Troubles A Foot |
Posted - 12/13/2024 : 08:16:13 quote: Originally posted by Brank_Flack
Nobody Loves You More is a pleasant listen, but it veers a bit too close to well-produced-indie-music-by-the-numbers. I'll take Primrose, Jane, Mercy Me, Motoroller, Kings of the Prairie over most of NLYM, whereas The Night the Zombies Came came together in weeks or months as opposed to a decade.
I just feel the total opposite. Nobody Loves You More isn't "pleasant" to me, it has multiple songs that moved me to tears. Nothing Frank has done has come close to that in a long time (maybe the bridge for Daniel Boone, and of course I love the reject songs from Eyrie. I also love the new solo song "The Liar" which is very moving.) I don't hear anything by the numbers in Kim's new album, each song is totally different, with different production styles and different songwriting techniques.
But also the production is so much better than the Pixies album it is insane. It's just so much more enjoyable to listen to because I don't get distracted by how bad the vocals or drums sound. And none of the songs sound like Kim is forcing anything. All of the new Pixies sounds like Frank is forcing solo songs into a Pixies shape and I know I've said this 1,000 times here, but I just can't get over how awkward that can be. They are a solid band but for some of these songs it doesn't feel like they are the right people.
I genuinely think the Pixies maybe should have "died" and he should have just been a solo artist. I think we'd all see more freedom from him in the songwriting, who he chooses to play on his albums, etc. We'd have more range of stuff like Honeycomb to Teenager of the Year to Bluefinger, etc. I find the Pixies thing kind of restraining for him, but the financial incentives are too great so he stays with it. I think he is indeed "caught in a dream" that he can't get out of. Part of why seeing him play solo was so incredibly refreshing last week.
Anyway this is all to say that Kim's new album just feels so real and inspired to me and the Pixies new album feels awkward to me. |
Bedbug |
Posted - 12/13/2024 : 06:52:52 Related I think to this topic:
Was it that Kim had a real sense of how amazing 1.0 was and didn't want to tarnish the legacy like so many sequels do, etc?
Seems like Frank had a phase of that ("beautiful corpse") but also at the same time was demythologizing his own legacy in real time and loving it.
Also, Kim works at her pace (slower than Frank), and produces a certain number of songs (fewer than Frank) that hit on different levels (good songs bad songs) and Frank works at his pace (faster than Kim) and produces a certain number of songs (more than Kim) that hit on different levels (good songs bad songs).
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Brank_Flack |
Posted - 12/13/2024 : 06:30:59 quote: Originally posted by Mad Lucas
I've had this conversation with Trouble in another topic but I personally find the Pixies album to be better than Kim's recent work. I don't think she is the same calibre of artist and doesn't have the songwriting chops. Nonetheless, on her own terms, as an artist that prioritises aesthetic, mood, attitude, and as one who seems to always be chasing the same sound, I can appreciate and enjoy the album, though when set against her other work there is a point of diminishing returns. [...]
My opinion is grounded in prioritising songcraft, engagement with or response to music tradition, hearing an artist evolve, among other things. Frank/Black/Charles hits that spot for me.
I agree with this. I think Kim has immaculate aesthetic taste and a knack for arrangements, but Frank's songwriting is just more idiosyncratic and interesting to me. Nobody Loves You More is a pleasant listen, but it veers a bit too close to well-produced-indie-music-by-the-numbers. I'll take Primrose, Jane, Mercy Me, Motoroller, Kings of the Prairie over most of NLYM, whereas The Night the Zombies Came came together in weeks or months as opposed to a decade. |
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