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trobrianders Posted - 06/19/2013 : 03:04:59
TV shows and the like. Just started watching The Returned (Les Revenants), a French Twin Peaksy drama series about a bunch of coach crash victims who return from the dead to their Alpine town. Neither the victims nor the townsfolk know why this has happened. The drama is played completely straight, I think that's why it's so gripping. Two episodes in so far. Denis you been watching?



_______________
Ed is the hoo hoo
35   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Troubles A Foot Posted - 01/24/2022 : 12:25:21
Did someone say Twilight? Those movies have that same unappealing blue filter on them, no matter where the scene is or what time of day or anything. Everybody looks like Mr. Freeze!
Newo Posted - 01/24/2022 : 12:10:22
No I don't mean blue movies either, apart from blue movies. It's a fine show, anything with Harris Yulin as a side character I'll enjoy, though not all in one go, shall intersperse with guitar videos to razz the contrast a bit in lieu of four seasons of blue peach fuzz neat.

--


Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs.
Stevio10 Posted - 01/24/2022 : 11:21:47
Hope you guys haven't watched How Green Was My Valley, not green at all.
pot Posted - 01/24/2022 : 10:50:38
Sure Newo I guess scenes were shot in the middle of the day - but they wanted it to look like twilight, because it's a work of fiction. I've seen way bluer films than this, and I don't mean blue movies.
Newo Posted - 01/24/2022 : 08:05:39
That scene wasn't twilight but the middle of the day, and sure, while it is mildly overcast, even the scenes of cloudless day on the lake are that dark too. It's not about misrepresenting the Ozarks so much as 40 hours of underexposed footage which causes the image to lose a sense of dimension. Joe Public is not in the habit of talking widely about cinematography so when there's a buzz about something that is more often strictly the province of nerds, there is usually something to it. If you don't mind it there's no arguing with that, but like it or not, Ozark is literally the bluest series to date - the only thing bluer is Derek Jarman's Blue, which was made when he was going blind and has no other colour at all.

--


Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs.
pot Posted - 01/24/2022 : 02:07:21
Nothing wrong with my monitor - like I say it's brand new and fairly accurate in terms of gamuts and contrasts. HP is the company who invented sRGB space which is one of the main industry standards and my computer is a new entry level high spec gaming PC. Compared with my older monitor which is a crappy Hanns-G - this represents colours a lot less accurately.

So it's the fact they are misrepresenting the Ozarks that's bothering folk?

I don't know how you know every shot is tinted blue if you've never watched the whole series Troubles? It's really not at all. Or if it is it's so minimal it's hardly noticeable, or just mostly confined to the aireal shots of the Ozarks. Some of the scenes of the Ozarks may be blue tinted like the shot Newo posted, although I don't remember it being quite as dark as that when I watched it. That said, I can still see everything in the scene in that shot clearly - it just looks like it's representing a twilight scene. There must be times in the day in the Ozarks when it's twilight?

Lots of shows apply a bit of filter to the scenes, and sometimes it works and other times it's probably a bit grotesque (cf. Channel 4 series Utopia - overrated pile of wank IMO). Ozark seems fairly minimal in it's application of that and this hasn't in any way affected my enjoyment of the show.

Video production technology has made leaps and bounds over the past few decades. I really don't get what the fuss is over a bit of blue tint. I don't know if they use this on Star trek Discovery but the visuals on that show didn't really agree with me too much - also the lens flares and camera angles were a bit over the top - the main reason Discovery sucks is the terrible writing and characters though.

Every scene in Ozark is perfectly clear and sharp (apart from the blurring in and out occasionally obvs) and it is a work of fiction - as opposed to a documentary on the Ozarks. So sorry again, I still don't see what the big drama is over a bit of blue tint that is applied in some scenes..
Troubles A Foot Posted - 01/23/2022 : 17:27:26
This also spurred my reaction to Ozark's look.


https://youtu.be/ctXc6YHIyac



(why isn't the image working?)

To be honest, pot, I'm beginning to suspect something is off about your TV settings. Object to it or not, the show is tinted blue in most every shot, and often incredibly blatantly. Again...everyone seems to see this. It's a common subject when the show comes up. You keep saying it must be my TV: I've never even seen it on my television. I have only seen articles and youtube videos about the topic.
Newo Posted - 01/23/2022 : 15:29:20
Here's a frame from the first season, broad daylight yet it is tinted like a Robert Redford conspiracy thriller from the 70s. The Ozarks in their natural state are as green as Ireland, so someone spent many post-production hours in front of a computer making sure it didn't look that way as most likely it would have killed the mood to have the characters with flush and healthy pink skin walking around in such beautiful verdant surroundings.

Do an image search for "ozarks green", you'll see nature shots with vibrant green side by side with stills from the series so you can get an idea of exactly how desaturated a look the series is going for.





--


Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs.
pot Posted - 01/23/2022 : 14:14:26
You guy's must be watching the blue tinted version then because the Ozark I'm seeing now has all the colours in the right places. Maybe they get a bit too carried away with the bokeh at times, maybe some of it's fake digital bokeh but other than that I'm only seeing very slight blue tint in some scenes and otherwise normal or >95% normal at least..
Newo Posted - 01/23/2022 : 13:45:55
Watched the first season when it came out and can attest that every scene is tinted blue, whether sunny day exterior or strip club interior, even the deepest shadows have blue in them. Am watching it again as it is well written and acted and have heard they kept up the quality, but it is a weird choice to make the entire series that muted - and that's coming from someone who likes the cold blue looks on films like Gone Girl and The Game, but even they have differently-coloured scenes to contrast the main palette.

--


Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs.
pot Posted - 01/23/2022 : 10:18:32
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

quote:
Ozark focuses on the story and the characters, whereas BB and BCS are more leaning towards the cinematography and arty farty aspect.


Come on, pot. This is silly. First off, EVERY visual presentation should "focus" on the cinematography. That's something you...have to do when creating a TV show. Second, to say those shows don't focus on characters is...well, like I said, silly. BB and BCS are, above all else, character arcs. The plots of BCS are so nebulous and unpredictable because literally all we know about the show's goal is "what is the character arc that will turn Jimmy into Saul?"

As for artsiness, I'm genuinely not sure what you mean. BCS and BB plays things pretty straight, and has few abstractions and a lack of pretense. They're not Twin Peaks, they're not even The Sopranos. They are both character heavy, plot heavy, sometimes pulpy and funny shows about crime and morality. Symbolism, etc, (which by the way, looks to be all over Ozark judging by the heavy handed post production) is kept to a subtle minimum. I know this because I listened to dozens of episodes of the podcast where the writers and directors actually talk about this stuff. The writing and look is purposeful, sometimes symbolic or thematically driven, but it's always boiling down to "what is the character going through in this scene?"

Ozark may also be good! :)



I'm not saying cinematography isn't important, and Ozark doesn't neglect this element in any way. BCS/BB are approaching things from a more cryptic angle, whereas Ozark is more this is what happens in linear time as it happens.

It's all turning out to be an interesting reflection on current times in some way this season too - good bit of political edge to the story. Struggling a bit to follow the complex stories as it's nearly 2 years since I binged up on it all.
Troubles A Foot Posted - 01/23/2022 : 10:10:44
That's totally fair, you may be right. I'm only going off articles, you've actually watched the thing. Lord knows I'm a fan of tons of TV shows that I think get unfairly crapped on all over the internet (LOST, etc.)
pot Posted - 01/23/2022 : 10:07:54
I can't say I ever noticed anything particularly ugly in terms of the video production in the early seasons, but so far as this one goes I see a bit of the blue filter and maybe some scenes are a bit dark but overall it still looks good HD quality to me? I have no recollection of ever one time watching Ozark and thinking I can't see what's going on because it's too dark or poor contrast - never. I've seen plenty worse in cinema theatres. I'm not really seeing this blue filter every scene as you say, some scenes are bright and colourful and appear visually lucid and comparable to real life. I feel it might be getting a bit of unfair negative criticism here..
Troubles A Foot Posted - 01/23/2022 : 09:59:49
quote:
Originally posted by pot

I mean.. opening credits you say. Have you seen the opening credits to Better Call Saul?! I know they are making it look bad on purpose, but still..




...Hardly relevant? The 20 seconds long stylized opening credits is not really a reason to watch or not watch a show (and the Saul one is meant to evoke cheap film or video ie what a local law firm commercial would look like.)

I'm talking about the shows themselves. Saul stands out among the digital crowd in that they seem to actually work hard on lighting, composition, storyboarding, etc. They don't just go as fast as possible and shoot tons of coverage and move on (as I've witnessed being on set for many, many, many TV shows.) It doesn't have that flat, phony digital feel despite it being shot digitally. It feels to me that they spend as much time as possible getting the look of a scene right, making each shot notable. Maybe digital SHOULDN'T just try to copy film, as Saul is doing, but I think the results seem to work for them.

But its the colors and the lighting I'm mainly talking about. I'm not sure why you have an inability to see what Ozark is doing, but to be specific: they seem to be putting an exaggerated blue filter (some may call it ugly) on everything, plus lowering the brightness (and contrast?) down to absurd levels, even on scenes of people just inside a house with lights on. The articles I posted all have pertinent examples. I can't understand why anyone would make their show look like this, consistently, all the time. I get for a scene or two, but every scene?

I have not said anything about the characters or story, in fact all I said is one day I may watch it, because it seems people get really into it. No criticism of that at all. But visuals are important...when scrolling around on Netflix looking for something to watch, the visuals of Ozark that autoplayed in the preview is what made me click to something else...


quote:
Ozark focuses on the story and the characters, whereas BB and BCS are more leaning towards the cinematography and arty farty aspect.


Come on, pot. This is silly. First off, EVERY visual presentation should "focus" on the cinematography. That's something you...have to do when creating a TV show. Second, to say those shows don't focus on characters is...well, like I said, silly. BB and BCS are, above all else, character arcs. The plots of BCS are so nebulous and unpredictable because literally all we know about the show's goal is "what is the character arc that will turn Jimmy into Saul?"

As for artsiness, I'm genuinely not sure what you mean. BCS and BB plays things pretty straight, and has few abstractions and a lack of pretense. They're not Twin Peaks, they're not even The Sopranos. They are both character heavy, plot heavy, sometimes pulpy and funny shows about crime and morality. Symbolism, etc, (which by the way, looks to be all over Ozark judging by the heavy handed post production) is kept to a subtle minimum. I know this because I listened to dozens of episodes of the podcast where the writers and directors actually talk about this stuff. The writing and look is purposeful, sometimes symbolic or thematically driven, but it's always boiling down to "what is the character going through in this scene?"

Ozark may also be good! :)
pot Posted - 01/23/2022 : 04:14:23
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

Love Ozark and love BB and BCS, and I feel like they all have certain looks to them.

I don't mind at all Ozark's look, maybe it is dark on purpose. That is a weird part of the states for sure, and that's saying something.

This last season of Ozark is crazy, doesn't disappoint. I'm sad it will be over soon.



Isn't every part of the states weird in some way by comparison to all other parts?

These days I'm finding myself drawn to some of the more hillbilly parts after watching so many great shows - I'd like some of you guys to draw up a list of no go areas though in case I decide to travel there some day. I mean places where I'm likely to end up at the bottom of the lake or tied to a chair in someone's basement.

As for Netflix productions in general - I think they do alright? Ozark focuses on the story and the characters, whereas BB and BCS are more leaning towards the cinematography and arty farty aspect.

I remember when I started watching Travelers and was getting into that I nearly stopped watching after episode three where they had a shot of the moon in the background, and as people often do when photoshopping the moon into photos it was way too big and didn't look right. But, it turned out to be one of my all time favourite sci-fi series and one of the best Netflix productions I've seen. Rumours about it coming back, but I'm not that bothered because they wrapped the series up so well at the end of season 3.
Bedbug Posted - 01/23/2022 : 03:09:29
And I think I missed a chance to link this topic to Frank's "I'll Be Blue." Oh well.
Bedbug Posted - 01/23/2022 : 03:07:10
Love Ozark and love BB and BCS, and I feel like they all have certain looks to them.

I don't mind at all Ozark's look, maybe it is dark on purpose. That is a weird part of the states for sure, and that's saying something.

This last season of Ozark is crazy, doesn't disappoint. I'm sad it will be over soon.
pot Posted - 01/23/2022 : 02:24:02
I'm usually the first to complain about bad quality visuals, but so fas as Ozark goes I have no idea what anyone's problem with it is. It doesn't go all arty farty like the producers of Breaking Bad and Better Caul Saul, but it has some brilliant characters and the overall story arc is A+++. I think it's quite a polished series, and they even have the circle with four illustrations relating to what happens in each episode at the start in place of opening credits.

I mean.. opening credits you say. Have you seen the opening credits to Better Call Saul?! I know they are making it look bad on purpose, but still..
Troubles A Foot Posted - 01/22/2022 : 19:53:07
I just think most TV shows look kind of cheap and bad which is strange because they are all aiming for the feel of prestige and cinema. I miss when they were all shot on 16mm film. To me nothing looks more beautiful than an episode of The X-Files, or later season Sopranos. Some shows can do digital...Better Call Saul puts in extra effort to match Breaking Bad's film cameras. But so many look kind of ugly to me.
Newo Posted - 01/22/2022 : 15:12:40
I think it's more a category thing - people will watch 2 hours of handsome murkiness on film like The Godfather or Seven (and when done well, that chiaroscuro thing causes the eye to concentrate more intensely to make up for the lack of clarity, making for a great viewing experience), but a 40-hour series that dark and muted probably involves too much squinting for a lot of people. It can't be remastered, that look was chosen before they shot a frame; the type of lightbulbs they used and the set design as well as post-production choices - you can't bring up detail that was never shot in the first place. Watching it on a decent screen would defo help enjoyment. This is all new to us anyway, not too long ago pretty much all TV was horribly lit so it is great that cinema-quality choices are available to series creators.

--


Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs.
pot Posted - 01/22/2022 : 13:37:03
Must depend on the quality of the individual monitor then. I'm not sure quality of picture contrast is really a solid basis for slating an entire show though - if it were so bad then maybe but this isn't. Not sure I've even noticed previously anyway. If it's so bad for some folk then I'm sure they could remaster it quite easily? Your loss man.
Troubles A Foot Posted - 01/22/2022 : 11:34:46
Oh that is kind of funny. I'm not the only one who's noticed this. It's actually the sole talking point I've ever seen about the show in articles, youtube videos about the genre, etc. Like I know nothing about the show except that a lot of people have problems with the visuals.

https://decider.com/2018/08/30/why-ozark-is-so-dark/

https://screenrant.com/ozark-lighting-too-dark-reason/
"Ozark is one of Netflix's darkest shows - literally. Fans have complained about what an eyesore Ozark is to look at..."

https://www.looper.com/207204/the-real-reason-ozark-looks-so-dark/

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1277723/ozark-why-is-ozark-so-blue

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ozark/comments/6poxij/great_show_but_too_blue/

http://fatsaloon.com/entertainment/ozark-is-the-bluest-show-on-television/

https://www.slashfilm.com/665514/the-interesting-reason-everything-in-ozark-is-so-blue/

etc....Not commenting at all about the writing and stuff though. The look of the show to me is just not my kind of thing so I don't feel enticed to watch. Maybe one day...
pot Posted - 01/22/2022 : 11:02:35
Whuh? You guy's watching a different show or something. It all looks pretty slick visually to me and I'm watching this on a brand new HP 21" 1080 monitor - I now want to visit the Ozarks on my bucket list tour of the states that will probably never happen. The plot and characters are of a very high calibre too. This series is proper mint.
Newo Posted - 01/22/2022 : 10:08:19
Lot of murky or washed-out colour grading in series and film these days, I blame people of lesser skills trying to copy David Fincher. Ozark goes way overboard with the blue highlights, like watching TV through X-ray paper.

--


Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs.
Troubles A Foot Posted - 01/22/2022 : 09:11:15
I've never watched it, but I've seen clips and images and the visual look of the show is a massive turnoff. Breaking Bad is so beautiful. Ozark looks like a monkey got a hold of the color correction in Premiere Pro and smashed on the keyboard.
pot Posted - 01/21/2022 : 15:42:38
I know this might be a controversial opinion, but I'm starting to think Ozark kind of owns Breaking Bad's ass a little bit. Maybe it's just because I'm more recently familiar with Ozark that I think that and had I watched them in the other order I might be thinking the reciprocal about them. It's definitely close.
Troubles A Foot Posted - 01/16/2022 : 00:21:57
As somebody who will record a two-hour podcast about a TMBG song, I really can't criticize. More power to him!
Bedbug Posted - 01/15/2022 : 13:38:29
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

I find myself watching Rob Ager film analysis videos from time to time.

What do people think of him?




I am a fan. His stuff on Alien is especially good. Also really enjoyed a Blair Witch Project video from last year.



Definitely good stuff from him on Alien. Almost all his stuff is good, though i don't play video games and I can't really imagine sitting through an hours long analysis of video game subtleties.
Troubles A Foot Posted - 01/13/2022 : 23:30:26
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

I find myself watching Rob Ager film analysis videos from time to time.

What do people think of him?




I am a fan. His stuff on Alien is especially good. Also really enjoyed a Blair Witch Project video from last year.
pot Posted - 01/13/2022 : 12:40:25
Valerian and the City Of A Thousand Planets

Picked this up last on Netflix and I'm watching it thinking to myself - this reminds me a lot of The Fifth Element. Turns out it's only the latest Luc Besson!

This is some piece of work this. No idea what the story is but it's just such a visually stunning experience. Got bits of everything in there somewhere, completely over the top like The 5th Element on an acid trip. Steam punk burlesque or something maybe a good description of Besson's sci-fi style - nice to see a piece of cinema that at times is quite trippy, like something from Barbarella or a Pink Floyd video.

Family friendly Disney stuff, but worth saving a fat joint for.
Bedbug Posted - 01/09/2022 : 11:07:49
I find myself watching Rob Ager film analysis videos from time to time.

What do people think of him?

Personally I like him even if I think some of his points are a bit of a stretch.
Stevio10 Posted - 01/01/2022 : 12:41:32
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

I'm watching all of the Harry Potter movies for the first time, except the first one which will be my 2nd time. Up to the 6th one tonight. I don't feel like I'm exactly the audience (never been into wizard stuff) but it's been a fun random little assignment to myself.



The Nick Cave song moment is very moving. I didn't think I would enjoy the movies but I did.
Stevio10 Posted - 01/01/2022 : 12:37:36
quote:
Originally posted by hammerhands

quote:
Originally posted by Stevio10

[quote]Originally posted by hammerhands

I finally saw two documentaries Iíve been meaning to watch. I found them on Tubi, with commercials.

1. Bet, Raise, Fold. Comic-tragedy. About being an online poker player just before Pokerís Black Friday.

2. Stiv: No Compromise, No Regerts. I learned there are more albums Iíve never heard, Stiv Bators was a nut, and for the first time Iím glad I wasnít there.
[/quote

Don't know much about Stiv Bators but I like the Dead Boys. Anything about Rocket From the Tombs / Pere Ubu in the documentary? Don't envy the 70's punk lifestyle!




Pere Ubu showed up on an early concert tour poster, the name was not uttered. I donít recall much about Rocket From the Tombs, but quite a bit about Frankenstein, Stivís other bands back to the late 60ís and his naked insanity from that period.



Thanks! I'll check it out
hammerhands Posted - 01/01/2022 : 11:03:49
quote:
Originally posted by Stevio10

[quote]Originally posted by hammerhands

I finally saw two documentaries Iíve been meaning to watch. I found them on Tubi, with commercials.

1. Bet, Raise, Fold. Comic-tragedy. About being an online poker player just before Pokerís Black Friday.

2. Stiv: No Compromise, No Regerts. I learned there are more albums Iíve never heard, Stiv Bators was a nut, and for the first time Iím glad I wasnít there.
[/quote

Don't know much about Stiv Bators but I like the Dead Boys. Anything about Rocket From the Tombs / Pere Ubu in the documentary? Don't envy the 70's punk lifestyle!




Pere Ubu showed up on an early concert tour poster, the name was not uttered. I donít recall much about Rocket From the Tombs, but quite a bit about Frankenstein, Stivís other bands back to the late 60ís and his naked insanity from that period.
pot Posted - 01/01/2022 : 10:53:30
I visited two castles that were in Harry Potter last year.

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