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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5291 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2019 :  05:10:53  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I just don't buy it.

Frank made some pretty perfect records without her

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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1784 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2019 :  05:37:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I mean didn't the least "Kim-y" 1.0 albums finish one and two in album survivor?

I never want to come across as anti-Kim, I love her. She was definitely a huge part of the early 1.0 sound. But no one ever seems to give specific examples of how she would have helped TLM, IC, et al
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5291 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2019 :  07:12:27  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Seconded!

Her own records are great. One trick pony, but what a pony!

I believe Kim would make IC ans HC better just by singing. Her voice is part of the trademark.



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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1784 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2019 :  07:59:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Warning: You may think I'm out of line for saying this (I truly don't mean to offend anyone).

If in fact ATITO is a song about drinking, and if Kim would have caught wind of it back in '13, it's not surprising that she might not want to be involved with it.

Again, I love both Charles and Kim and don't mean to sound snide in any way.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5291 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2019 :  08:37:39  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I can imagine being around Joey fighting his own demons must be hard too
Just speculation


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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
685 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2019 :  22:22:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

quote:
Originally posted by sdon

Charles is more creative and prolific than Kim, for sure, that's not my point

I feel Kim's aesthetics were more consistent quality-wise, though less exploratory.
Her influence on BF is certainly complex to decrypt, but I feel it was very real.
Joey, David and Paz do not have this same impact, even if they have "contribution"

Kim wouldn't have been able to save Another Toe, but maybe prevent it from reaching recording status.


--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"




Thank you for pointing out that Kim's gift was in hindering FBF's musical output.



Call it hindering if you want to...
I see it as an emulation / sublimation process

Have you ever been in a band with a musician having a strong personality and assertive taste / creative ethics?

I have. It makes you up your level a notch. It makes you more demanding towards your own inspiration and execution. It's a powerful force, as long as it doesn't turn to conflict or acrimony.

I'm definitely pro-Kim, but it's only apparent she caused a lot of suffering and inertia. Just regretting the good old times when the dynamics worked. I think no one so far (EDF, Workman, Mangino, Jason Carter, Violet...) was willing or able to play this role. Maybe Shattuck... Maybe Paz will...





--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5291 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2019 :  22:36:58  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
In the recent Mojo interview he said that Pixies felt like something bigger than him and he wanted to concentrate on something he could handle
Or something like that
That he had to fight for everything

This was his first band and it was burning him out
Solo he was calling the shots, could take it as slow as he wanted to.

Pixies (not only Kim, I just don't believe it) were pushing him to be something different, not better in my book
Catholics made some classics too
Another type of music, less groundbreaking for sure
But can you name a better alt. country record than DITS?


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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?

Edited by - billgoodman on 08/12/2019 22:37:45
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
685 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2019 :  23:41:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pixies was molten lava, of course he couldn't sustain that
But he defined a genre with 1.0 (Kim being essential to it, maybe 5%, but essential nonetheless). Not with Catholics.
imho, it was safer for him to drive a less ambitious band, but I felt it like a long penitence for breaking up the Pixies.

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1784 Posts

Posted - 08/13/2019 :  08:24:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And I'm guessing most of us here would subdivide 1.0?

1.0a - CoP through SR / Doolittle

1.0b - Doolittle through Bossanova / Trompe Le Monde

If you were around during 1.0 you know that the 1.0b albums sounded like, "what happened to the Pixies?" From where we stand now 1.0 looks monolithic.

With the 1.0b albums, meaning Bossa/Trompe, it is very difficult to say that Kim was essential, at least to my ears.
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1694 Posts

Posted - 08/13/2019 :  10:13:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I enjoy Another Toe

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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1784 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  01:13:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Me too, it’s a very good 2.0a song
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1694 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  10:08:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I must say I also enjoy the latest 2.0.3 patch.

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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5291 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  10:37:03  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sdon

Pixies was molten lava, of course he couldn't sustain that
But he defined a genre with 1.0 (Kim being essential to it, maybe 5%, but essential nonetheless). Not with Catholics.
imho, it was safer for him to drive a less ambitious band, but I felt it like a long penitence for breaking up the Pixies.

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"




Agree with almost everything here
And Kim would make Pixies 2.0 more special for old times sake
Just her being on a new record, harmonizing with Frank.
That would be nice!

Still, it won't be Surfer Rosa or Doolittle
They won't define a genre anymore
That ship has sailed


If the best thing Kim could do for the Pixies is leaving the recording session and get out of the way, than I'm fine with that.
She seems happy, the Pixies seem happy. Everybody wins.
If she had stayed and vetoed new recordings (which she did for years) we wouldn't have had some amazing new Pixies tracks.



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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1784 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  02:44:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman

quote:
Originally posted by sdon

Pixies was molten lava, of course he couldn't sustain that
But he defined a genre with 1.0 (Kim being essential to it, maybe 5%, but essential nonetheless). Not with Catholics.
imho, it was safer for him to drive a less ambitious band, but I felt it like a long penitence for breaking up the Pixies.

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"




Agree with almost everything here
And Kim would make Pixies 2.0 more special for old times sake
Just her being on a new record, harmonizing with Frank.
That would be nice!

Still, it won't be Surfer Rosa or Doolittle
They won't define a genre anymore
That ship has sailed


If the best thing Kim could do for the Pixies is leaving the recording session and get out of the way, than I'm fine with that.
She seems happy, the Pixies seem happy. Everybody wins.
If she had stayed and vetoed new recordings (which she did for years) we wouldn't have had some amazing new Pixies tracks.



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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?



List please?
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5291 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  02:55:48  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
She didn't want to record, I mean

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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1784 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  03:01:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I mean to say what songs specifically do you think? You mean like Bluefinger and stuff?
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5291 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  03:30:15  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Yep, Frank said that in this month's Mojo

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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1784 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  03:35:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anything beyond Bluefinger? Stuff from imperial era like Brackish Boy? Other FBF tunes that were floated by Pixies first but nixed by Kim?

The Nixies?
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
685 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  04:39:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think there were demos in Boston from Bagboy times that were vetoed by Kim

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
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two reelers
= Cult of Ray =

Austria
943 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  06:05:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Standing in the light
You're so self-congratulatory
So I guess you have the right to be so masturbatory
And like a man with his pet
You always seem to forget
That you ain't me
You ain't me
You ain't me
No, you ain't me
Did you include the question mark?
When I answered you were totally shocked
You looked at me like I was a Snark
While your head was extremely mentally blocked
I'm the guy from Wonderland
And you could never understand
That you ain't me
You ain't me
The money has been spent
I'm not saying it hasn't been earned
The customers have paid
I'm just feeling kind of burned
Tell me where have you been
Oh, black-eyed mannequin
You ain't me.

*Outro solo by Lyle Workman*

(Just listened to Cult of Ray again. What an album. All this chit-chat about different Pixies versions and who did what and who didn't etc. fades into oblivion when the power of real music kicks in.)

I joined the cult of Souled American / 'cause they are a damn' fine band
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1784 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  07:24:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Those lyrics are a bullseye, thanks Two Reelers

What an album indeed

But I love the chit chat too
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5291 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  07:25:58  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

Anything beyond Bluefinger? Stuff from imperial era like Brackish Boy? Other FBF tunes that were floated by Pixies first but nixed by Kim?

The Nixies?



I'm not sure Kim heard those songs
Maybe she ruled out the option of recording before any demos were being considered

BF said to Mojo that his solo BF-records and the Grand duchy ones could have been Pixies records

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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1694 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  09:02:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
any transcript from this Mojo interview somewhere ? I'd really like to read this.

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Troubles A Foot
- FB Fan -

USA
113 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  09:08:22  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by picpic

any transcript from this Mojo interview somewhere ? I'd really like to read this.





Yeah...this is driving me nuts with everyone mentioning it! Can someone share it?
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1784 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  09:18:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One song Kim would not have vetoed is "You Ain't Me."

I wonder how many if any 1.0 songs got the ax from Kim? How much of this are we even supposed to believe?

And how the heck does Bam Thwok not get the axe? I feel like that was a Breeders song she axed and then threw it to the Pixies with the hopes of sinking them. Painful.
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Troubles A Foot
- FB Fan -

USA
113 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  09:28:30  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Wait, people don't like Bam Thwok? Weird. It's so insanely fun. I love that song.
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1784 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  09:30:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

Wait, people don't like Bam Thwok? Weird. It's so insanely fun. I love that song.



I don't hate it or anything. But to act like it deserves to stay any more than any other 2.0 song is ridiculous.
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1694 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  10:22:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

quote:
Originally posted by picpic

any transcript from this Mojo interview somewhere ? I'd really like to read this.





Yeah...this is driving me nuts with everyone mentioning it! Can someone share it?


i can share it if you throw your @

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jake3
- FB Fan -

United Kingdom
187 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  11:29:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's the quote. The 'Threshold Apprehension' origin is new to me. Very interesting.

Interviewer: “So those late-’00s Black Francis records and the records you made with Violet Clark as Grand Duchy exist because the re-formed Pixies were not yet a recording entity?”
Black Francis: “Exactly. Any of those records could have been Pixies records.”
Interviewer: “There’s some great songs from that period, notably Threshold Apprehension, on Bluefinger (2007)…”
Black Francis: “That originally was the Pixies. That’s left over from Surfer Rosa, that chord progression.”
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
685 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  19:54:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh imagine Pixies versions of songs, carefully selected by the whole band, like Gyaneshwar, Dead Man's Curve, Threshold Apprehension, Tight Black Rubber, I Sent Away, The Seus, Fort Wayne...

We wouldn't be talking about 2.0 vs 1.0

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5291 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  20:22:34  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sdon

Oh imagine Pixies versions of songs, carefully selected by the whole band, like Gyaneshwar, Dead Man's Curve, Threshold Apprehension, Tight Black Rubber, I Sent Away, The Seus, Fort Wayne...

We wouldn't be talking about 2.0 vs 1.0

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"




This! You are right!

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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1784 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2019 :  00:35:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You are probably right
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Fitzy
- FB Fan -

Portugal
69 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2019 :  09:12:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A best-of of those BF albums, as a Pixies album, does sound sweet, but extremely unlikely.

Kim has that kind of capacity to wait and wait and wait, until she's happy with ideas that she's toyed with, FOR YEARS, perfecting every single note to the best of her ability.

I highly doubt that the other three guys (mainly FB, the leader of the band) have that kind of patience, refining everything for years, asking Kim of what she thinks about a cute chord progression Charles came up with just the night before the end of the recording sessions, that he's planing on calling 'Cinema Star'.

He has never worked that way. A best-of of those BF albums would be impossible for those four Pixies to record.
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =

Canada
612 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2019 :  10:15:24  Show Profile  Click to see Brank_Flack's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
RE: Another Toe

Good verses, GREAT pre-chorus, okay chorus that would've been fine if it were not for over repetition

Edited by - Brank_Flack on 08/16/2019 10:15:54
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
621 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2019 :  10:16:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jake3

Interviewer: “So those late-’00s Black Francis records and the records you made with Violet Clark as Grand Duchy exist because the re-formed Pixies were not yet a recording entity?”
Black Francis: “Exactly. Any of those records could have been Pixies records.”


He quite literally drove all around Europe for a month, screaming his bloody head off, prowling / stalking the stage and rolling around on his back like a man possessed in front of his fans just to help work out the frustration of the whole thing (whether he realized it consciously at the time or not)...

--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder

Edited by - peter radiator on 08/16/2019 10:17:30
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