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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5174 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2016 :  11:20:48  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Okay,let's focus on the vocals now!

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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1142 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2016 :  23:55:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Any HC LP owner here ? How does it sound compared to the digital version ? I wanna know.

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McDutchie
- FB Fan -

Netherlands
209 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2016 :  06:45:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For me, turning the bass frequencies on the equalizer well down makes Head Carrier quite a bit more listenable on non-shitty speakers and headphones. Anyone else finding that?
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1142 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2016 :  07:47:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A bit. It would have been simplier if the album had been mastered in a more decent fashion though.

Even the latest Metallica album sounds better.



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Edited by - picpic on 10/12/2016 07:48:09
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
526 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2016 :  10:46:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by McDutchie

For me, turning the bass frequencies on the equalizer well down makes Head Carrier quite a bit more listenable on non-shitty speakers and headphones. Anyone else finding that?


I do the same with CD version

Much prefer the streaming version on my laptop :)

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1142 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2016 :  21:42:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was wondering why the snare drums sound was so muffled on the record.

I'm not sure if it's a compression/limiting effect, or if Dave actually sounds like that since he's using a trad grip. Or both.

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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
543 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2016 :  05:16:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by picpic

I was wondering why the snare drums sound was so muffled on the record.

I'm not sure if it's a compression/limiting effect, or if Dave actually sounds like that since he's using a trad grip. Or both.



Quite honestly, I believe it is an aesthetic choice on the part of the artists and the producer.

I am familiar with the make and model of snare drum he used on most of the HC sessions, and that type of sound is very easy to draw from that particular drum.

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one: they preferred the snare drum to be tuned and recorded that way within the overall context of the album.

--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1142 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2016 :  08:51:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the explanation - didn't even know that snare drums could be tuned !

Lovering snare also have that kind of "dampened" or softer sound on live recordings, too. I thought it came from the trad grip he had been using since Indie Cindy.

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Edited by - picpic on 10/13/2016 08:54:46
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
543 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2016 :  11:15:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by picpic

Thanks for the explanation - didn't even know that snare drums could be tuned !

Lovering snare also have that kind of "dampened" or softer sound on live recordings, too. I thought it came from the trad grip he had been using since Indie Cindy.




Most every kind of musical drum can be tuned in one way or another. That changes not only the pitch of the drum, the amount of "buzz" or "snap" of the metal snares against the bottom head of the instrument, the duration of such sounds, and the amount of harmonic "over-ring" that comes off the top head of the drum when struck.

Standard trap-kit drums such as those used by most pop, rock, blues, soul, jazz, metal, punk and country acts can also be treated externally or internally to muffle, soften or even brighten their tone.

Many professional drummers take a selection of different types and sizes of snare drums into the studio with them and utilize different drums (and tunings) for different sorts of tunes, depending on what they and their bandmates and producer think is most appropriate.

Jim Keltner, for instance (drummer for Bob Dylan, John Lennon, Elvis Costello, Richard Thompson and many, many, many more) is known to show up for a session with as many as two dozen snare drums, which all sound noticeably different, just in case.

Lovering himself took a handful into the HC sessions, but reportedly wound up using a relatively inexpensive steel-bodied Ludwig snare for most all the songs.

It is a model they have made for decades, and one that is known for producing very dry and "fat" tones.

I recognize much of its signature sound in the recordings, even though they have clearly been EQ'd and treated electronically as well.

--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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Troubles A Foot
- FB Fan -

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2016 :  11:53:39  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hey guys, old member coming back years later for some Frank/Pixies talk.

The main example I use of how awful the compression is on Indie Cindy...The intro to Greens and Blues. The acoustic guitar plays, then the band comes in. But the acoustic guitar is as IN YOUR FACE and LOUD and overcompressed and smashed as when the band comes in! So there's no (what goes) BOOM, there's no catharsis, there's no dynamics. The whole album is kind of like that.

As for Head Carrier, to me the album isn't as overly compressed so much as the songs just don't naturally have many dynamics, they are all kind of pop/rock songs with all the band members playing at all times and not many loud/quiet/loud parts.
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1142 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2016 :  12:02:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
@peter radiator: do you have any extra info about the recording session ? Seems like you had some behind the scenes details ?
@Troubles a foot: hey, welcome back. Comparing Indie Cindy & Head Carrier, I would say that, excluding compression, I much prefer the Gil Norton approach. You can tell that the mix is good and balanced. If one day we could get rid off all the (awful) compression, it will probably sound as nice as Trompe Le Monde. I'm not so optimistic about Head Carrier. It sounds like the compression is applied "per instrument" rather that on the whole mix. It's hard to explain. Like every instrument is at full volume all the time and in your face. That's probably why you cannot even feel the difference between quiet and loud parts ?

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Edited by - picpic on 10/13/2016 12:03:07
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
543 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2016 :  20:29:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
picpic,

I don't have any inside info on the sessions.

Dave mentioned which snare drum wound up on most of HC in a recent interview with a drumming magazine, and that rang true to my ears, as I owned and routinely used that exact same model of snare for a decade or so, back in my touring days.

--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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Arm Arm Arm
= Cult of Ray =

998 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2016 :  06:51:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by picpic

Thanks for the explanation - didn't even know that snare drums could be tuned !
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Sometimes I tune my posts to Drop D.
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johnnyribcage
= Cult of Ray =

USA
771 Posts

Posted - 10/16/2016 :  11:08:11  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by picpic

Any HC LP owner here ? How does it sound compared to the digital version ? I wanna know.

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I listen to 90% of music on vinyl.

Get the vinyl version. Short answer is, yes. It's better. Long answer - it's always better, and it's great.

Hope that helps! :P


Take me to the vineyards of Lavaux
Want to see the mountains where the waters flow
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1142 Posts

Posted - 10/16/2016 :  12:05:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Better because it is a vinyl, or better because it's less compressed ?

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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1142 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2016 :  10:35:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There's a Head Carrier entry on the loudness war comparator website (low score = less dynamic range)

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=&album=head+carrier

You can compare the dynamic range to other Pixies records here:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr?artist=pixies

(You can also see the vinyl version of Indie Cindy has a better dynamic range than the digital version. What about the Head Carrier LP...???)
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Edited by - picpic on 12/29/2016 10:36:02
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Niue
7307 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2017 :  01:53:37  Show Profile  Visit vilainde's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Don't judge an album by its DR rating. This is the best record ever: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/112132


Denis
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1142 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2017 :  05:01:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like Head Carrier, so I don't judge an album by its DR ratings.

DR range does not mean anything. It could be just white noise. But in the loudness war context, it's generally a good tool (but not the only one) to point crappy-sounding albums.

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thierry512
- FB Fan -

France
11 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2017 :  17:28:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think this is a good demonstration of what the loudness war is :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v6ML2DsBfA

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