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 "New" Pixies songs that have the old spark
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Helmut
= Cult of Ray =

315 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2015 :  22:43:58  Show Profile  Click to see Helmut's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
For me it's Bam Thwok because they sounded like they were having fun, all four were on it and I liked the direction... If only they would release the other song done then.

Bagboy is the other one, classic Pixies rock. Like an old friend coming around for dinner.

Stevio10
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
626 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2015 :  02:55:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What Goes Boom and Women of War sound to me most like their original sound.

Although, when people talk about their 'original sound' it tends to be made up of their favourites from all albums.

If they recorded 'Baileys Walk Part 2'(please god no!) or 'Theme from Minecraft' for example, Im sure there would still be people claiming it doesnt sound like the Pixies.

Happy 300th post by the way!
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Helmut
= Cult of Ray =

315 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2015 :  16:30:13  Show Profile  Click to see Helmut's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Bam Thwok is the closest we will ever get to what the Pixies would have sounded like if they included Kims Breeders songs....good but very different sound. Bag Boy is like a sequel to subbacultute.
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Helmut
= Cult of Ray =

315 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2015 :  16:41:03  Show Profile  Click to see Helmut's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
300 posts? Wow! It's only taken 15 years.
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
2220 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2015 :  23:00:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd add 'Ring the Bell' to the list too.

It was interesting seeing the subject of a new album being brought up after the reunion began. BF tended to give answers along the lines of "I'll have to write some songs, Kim will have to write some songs". But 'Bam Thwok' aside, Kim didn't seem too fussed about contributing any others.

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Helmut
= Cult of Ray =

315 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2015 :  01:45:24  Show Profile  Click to see Helmut's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
They recorded a Frank song at the same time that's never been released.
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1113 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2015 :  04:48:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A lot of Indie Cindy material would have turned cult if it had been released on Trompe Le Monde.

Ring, Toe, Andro, Indie, Jaime, Boom, Magda...

Maybe shortened a little bit and produced in a normal un-compressed fashion, to me they're all classics.

Same from some of the last Grand Duchy album. ("John Frum" with Santiago Guitar would have turned great).

___
"Service Unavailable"

Edited by - picpic on 07/06/2015 04:50:24
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jake3
- FB Fan -

United Kingdom
138 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2015 :  06:49:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think most of them have a 80s/90s Pixies spark somewhere in them, with only Ring The Bell, Another Toe In The Ocean, Snakes & Jaime Bravo having a noticeably different sound, at least to my ears. I'm not suggesting they sound like Frank Black solo tracks, I just can't see the pre-reunion Pixies conjuring them up. I'm not suggesting they're bad tracks either (Ring The Bell being the only song I dislike), they're just different.

I'd say Bagboy, Blue Eyed Hexe and Bam Thwok pull it off the most consistently throughout their respected durations.
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1113 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2015 :  09:37:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My personal theory is that they really tried to make a classic Pixies record with Indie Cindy. But somehow didn't had many thumbs up from fans.

Hearing Um Shagga or Woman of War, BF seems to take more freedom now that most of the pressure is gone. I think the next one will be less Old Pixies and more BF.

___
"Service Unavailable"

Edited by - picpic on 07/06/2015 09:39:33
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Helmut
= Cult of Ray =

315 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2015 :  16:50:32  Show Profile  Click to see Helmut's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I like Another Toe, but it is Frank than Pixies whereas Blurfinger/Seven fingers era was more Pixies than Frank if that makes sense. Indy Cindy has better songs than Trompe but Trompe is Pixies in full flight, but your right it was an impossible task to make a classic album. The new songs are culled from demos that were going to make the next Frank album so at least they will be more from the heart and less trying to please us unpleasable fans. I hope they just do what the fuck they want.
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Stevio10
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
626 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2015 :  00:48:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My own theory on Indie Cindy is that they just did the best that they could in a certain time and place with restrictions and obstacles.

And its a good album, they did well, the songs are all solid. To me a FB song is the same as a BF or Pixies song, just with different people contributing to the sound.

The restrictions and obstacles in my view are Kim leaving and Gil Norton's production.

Both have been discussed to death I supopose, but something that sticks in my mind is a comment in an interview where BF was asked if the sound on IC is the sound they wanted to capture and proceed with, it was quite clear it was a resounding no.

Though his response was very diplomatic, something along the lines of 'not quite' - breathing new life into the band takes time, this is just the first stage etc etc (these are not direct quotes just from my memory for summary purposes).

Further to this, on Gil it is implied that IC was the Pixies through his vision - 'you're not going to dinner looking scruffy' I think was the term used to describe Gil's direction.

It is quite telling that 'Women of War' was not recorded by Gil and going back to a post by Helmut, it was alleged that BF was unhappy with the production to the extent he didn't want to work with Gil again - but still loves him.

My own view on Gil is that he was great at what he does in the 80's and early 90's. I don't have much knowledge (any) about recording but I have a theory that as recording technology has advanced, the slicker and more polished he gets.

I loved what he did with Belly in the early 90's but the Foo Fighters Color and the Shape from 1997 sounds almost generic rock compared to their debut album. Its a good album but it sounds of its time and not like the band from their debut album.

The Strokes were to have Gil record their debut LP 'Is This It' but they had to revert back to their original producer after inital sessions with Gil. A quote from the then producer;

"about a week later, I got a call from Julian, saying 'Gordon, we are scared.' I said 'Why are you scared, Julian?' and he said 'We don't know if we'll ever be able to get our sound again."

With Indie Cindy, Gil is the only person who could have got all 4 of the then members into the studio, albeit that came at a cost - losing Kim and a good album that didnt get any critical acclaim.

I will always love what Gil did with the earlier work and for giving them a new opportunity.
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Sprite
= Cult of Ray =

656 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2015 :  12:08:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting topic. For me I get some of that old spine tingle in glimpses, almost as if it is going in and out of focus. But in other places it feels a bit forced and ponderous. Hex is a good example, I really only plug in from the guitar Solo onwards. Bagboy and Indie Cindy are a bit like that as well. And on Jaime Bravo I can't stand that break in the beat in the verse even though I love the rest of it.

The songs where I don't get this feeling are Magdalena, Snail, Snakes (well maybe the chorus lyric) and Ring the Bell (which is magnificent in my opinion).

I agree with Steve10 that it could be Gil is the chief culprit here. With the modern DAWs you can tinker and tinker and all of a sudden you have an over produced, over effected and over compressed mush. Have to admit I am not a fan of Dave's drumming on the album (the kick pattern on Greens verse especially), and I feared this might be the case when he said Gil persuaded him to use a click track for the first time. The strange thing is that I was stoked when I heard that he was producing it because I love the sound of Doolittle, Bossanova and Trompe. But I guess working methods change over the years.

I also realise it's a first toe dip in the water and of course there is a transitional element at play in the band. I really like Women of War so hopefully we get more music with that spontaneous feel next time.
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
526 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2015 :  22:09:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sprite

Interesting topic. For me I get some of that old spine tingle in glimpses, almost as if it is going in and out of focus. But in other places it feels a bit forced and ponderous. Hex is a good example, I really only plug in from the guitar Solo onwards. Bagboy and Indie Cindy are a bit like that as well. And on Jaime Bravo I can't stand that break in the beat in the verse even though I love the rest of it.

The songs where I don't get this feeling are Magdalena, Snail, Snakes (well maybe the chorus lyric) and Ring the Bell (which is magnificent in my opinion).

I agree with Steve10 that it could be Gil is the chief culprit here. With the modern DAWs you can tinker and tinker and all of a sudden you have an over produced, over effected and over compressed mush. Have to admit I am not a fan of Dave's drumming on the album (the kick pattern on Greens verse especially), and I feared this might be the case when he said Gil persuaded him to use a click track for the first time. The strange thing is that I was stoked when I heard that he was producing it because I love the sound of Doolittle, Bossanova and Trompe. But I guess working methods change over the years.

I also realise it's a first toe dip in the water and of course there is a transitional element at play in the band. I really like Women of War so hopefully we get more music with that spontaneous feel next time.


Strange how tastes can differ
For me Magdalena (though a bit boring) sounds a lot like Bossanova and Silver Snail is very Pixies too (maybe a slowed down Blown Away hybrid with Down to the Well). That kick drumming on Greens and Blues is one of the few syncopated creative patterns I miss on other tracks, because David seems to have gotten lazy, as if drumming is only here as an accompaniment and not as an actor per se.
Bagboy , Boom, Cindy are for me the canonical Pixies trilogy on this album. What I read between the lines from old interviews is that without Gil they would not have had the confidence and impulse to gather in the studio, but at the same time he was too much interfering, with Joey's spontaneity, with David's creativity, and with the overall sound. I like BF's vocals throughout though, maybe it's what Gil had the most veneration for.
Even if the sound on Women of War is very likeable, with more air in it, more electricity, closer to Albini than to Norton, the song itself is rather poor and poppy, and the vocals are not treated as well as the other instruments.
I'm a bit disappointed they did not perform more new songs this spring except Lecker and Chagga, that would be a good way of acquiring more cohesiveness
Another good thread is the one with our expectations for next songs (more violin? more screaming? faster songs?...). Gonna check that

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
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DoginLeSand
- FB Fan -

Sweden
34 Posts

Posted - 07/20/2015 :  17:50:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I too feel a little as if Dave's gotten a little lazy with his drum parts.

Indie Cindy (track) is definitely a stand out, but with pretty much everything else I feel he's gotten a little not-very-creative. I understand that he's going for less is more, but the best part of his drumming was at times the 'more'. He's crazy fast and was holding back pretty much on every single Pixies album. I love his precision and I know he's better than ever, technically.

Here's to more ridiculous 150 BPM, right hand spam + double stroke kick stuff.
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Helmut
= Cult of Ray =

315 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2015 :  23:27:01  Show Profile  Click to see Helmut's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Indie Cindy were good songs performed by a band going through the motions, the bass player didn't even finish her parts. Trompe Le Monde was very average songs performed by a very well oiled machine. If they get the balance right with the next album we will hopefully get an enthusiastic band injecting life and character into some pretty ordinary sounding demos and bringing them to life.
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Sprite
= Cult of Ray =

656 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2015 :  04:47:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Helmut

Trompe Le Monde was very average songs performed by a very well oiled machine.



Strange. I think the exact opposite of this sentence!
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BunsenH
- FB Fan -

245 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2015 :  03:37:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sprite

quote:
Originally posted by Helmut

Trompe Le Monde was very average songs performed by a very well oiled machine.



Strange. I think the exact opposite of this sentence!



Me too. It's fun to say bad things about 'Trompe'. I think a lot of fans felt abandoned by the polished sound. BUT, the song writing and arrangements, so inventive. It's light years better than 'Cindy'. Just my opinion...
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
526 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2015 :  13:10:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are huge amounts of effort and creativity in Trompe Le Monde
The song dynamics, the diversity of sounds and instruments, the vocal range, the drumming..., the layering of guitars, the love shown by the engineers...
My preferred Pixies album
And Bagboy made me believe they even could take it further... But they couldn't sustain it across an entire album

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
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Stevio10
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
626 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2015 :  23:19:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bird Dream of the Olympus Mons, Letter To Memphis, Distance Equals Rate Times Time, Palace of the Brine, Lovely Day...all stellar songs yet often underappreciated in my view.
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1113 Posts

Posted - 07/25/2015 :  06:03:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sad Punk is probably the greatest rock song ever. palace of the Brine is brilliant. Trompe le Monde is stellar... Etc...

Trompe is my favourite too. BF however seems to dislike or regret having written some songs on this album and Bossanova. He said that in a pre-reunion documentary about the band.

Regarding the whole old Pixies vs new Pixies debate, BF once said in an interview "Well... i had my moment !". Like every artist I guess. They have a few golden years and everything they touch becomes gold. Sometimes it happens early in a career, sometimes it happenes late. So, its pretty naive to wait for another Surfer Rosa. Just enjoy what we have now. I enjoyed Indie Cindy. Even if I wont't re-listen to it 100 times like the other albums. Well, I guess thats probably the difference between very good albums and cult albums.

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"Service Unavailable"

Edited by - picpic on 07/25/2015 06:08:04
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shineoftheever
> Teenager of the Year <

Canada
4304 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2015 :  22:54:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i've been listening to the MFSL recordings cut from the master discs. pretty awesome...and IMO TLM is sooo good. i was always partal to the boss/tromp years anyways so take that for what its worth but seriously...

bird dreaming....

"There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception."
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Helmut
= Cult of Ray =

315 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2016 :  11:06:27  Show Profile  Click to see Helmut's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Talent and Um Chugga Lugga sound like they have the old spark. Kinda off kilter punkier tunes without the life compressed out of them sans Indie Cindy. Isn't it all we really wanted? The Pixies to sound like the Pixies? It only took 25 years, one over produced Black Francis solo album released under the Pixies name and the loss of Kim Deal to get back the magic if the first two songs are anything to go by. I'm all for Paz. Since Kim Deal left the band from what I've read she's recorded two songs and toured Last Splash again while the Pixies have done two albums and are on their second tour. I'm over Kim Deal's shenanigans.
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OLDMANOTY
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
442 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2016 :  15:17:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Women of War & Magdalena spring to mind.
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Bedbug
= Cult of Ray =

272 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2016 :  02:58:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would say that Bagboy is the last song to challenge me the way Surfer did. Women Of War and The Tenement Song definitely have some spark. I think if I edited together a new Pixies album from IC and HC it would probably open with those 3 songs. Then maybe I'd put in a couple of my favorites from a few of the solo BF albums and pretend that that was the 6th album.
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
526 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2016 :  06:22:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

If I edited together a new Pixies album from IC and HC..."


Interesting game!
My selection would be (in no order)
Bagboy
Indie Cindy
What Goes Boom
Head Carrier
Classic Masher
Baal's Back
Oona
All the Saints
+ Fort Wayne, Dead Man's Curve, Tight Black Rubber
+ Painter Man is Coming :)

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"

Edited by - sdon on 09/29/2016 06:23:44
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Bedbug
= Cult of Ray =

272 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2016 :  06:30:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bagboy
Women of War
The Tenement Song
Oona
Silver Snail
Threshold Apprehension
Fort Wayne
Black Suit
Virginia Reel

Painter Man, Classic Masher, Greens and Blues, and John Frum as the B's
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
526 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2016 :  10:14:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

Bagboy
Women of War
The Tenement Song
Oona
Silver Snail
Threshold Apprehension
Fort Wayne
Black Suit
Virginia Reel

Painter Man, Classic Masher, Greens and Blues, and John Frum as the B's



+1 for Virginia Reel
Threshold sounds a bit too obviously Pixies, so yeah
I would keep Snail and Greens only if produced drastically differently

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
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OLDMANOTY
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
442 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2016 :  11:28:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Virginia Reel

You know, I'd forgotten about Virginia Reel. At the time I'd had my fill of Americana/Trad Frank and to hear that was a real shot in the arm, throwaway as it was.

Of the HC stuff...well, most of it but particularly Oona and Might As Well Be Gone. The latter is a wonderful blend of old/new Pixies (with a bit of COR era Frank in the mix).
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ccuadros
* Dog in the Sand *

Chile
1310 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2016 :  10:37:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oooooooonaaaaaa love that song
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